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The new Death Jester weapon seems automatically better than the old relic. Is there something I'm missing or not remembering correctly?

 bullyboy wrote:
This Harlie update is so good, wow GW....makes the effort with DW even more laughable now. So happy for my quins, there is a LOT to digest here.

Ayup. The disparity is staggering.

pm713 wrote:
While it seems that the update is popular, I have to ask - Does anyone see this justifying the place in a White Dwarf rather than with the rest of the Eldar PA stuff?

prettty much the opposite in my view. This being in PA would have MASSIVELY upped my perception of the value of PA.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The new Death Jester weapon seems automatically better than the old relic. Is there something I'm missing or not remembering correctly?

Nope, it for sure is 100% better. Except i guess for being S6 instead of S7?

Rules from newer book better than older. What a shocker

unless you want 2 relic jester weapons...

tneva82 wrote:
Rules from newer book better than older. What a shocker

If you ignore all the newer books that have been worse than older books, sure.

tneva82 wrote:
Rules from newer book better than older. What a shocker

Well, there are plenty of rules in here where the stuff in the codex is better, or just as good. In terms of relics, the Suit of Hidden Knives is still almost certainly the best harlequin relic.

the_scotsman wrote:


Domino Shroud: I think this one kind of sucks, since it's once per battle and you can't charge afterwards. I'm not really seeing a use that warrants wasting a relic on it.

Looks to me like you could use that at the end of any phase, including enemy phases. Anything with an interrupt effect always feels like it has at least some ability to upset enemy plans. You could, for example, use it at the end of the enemy shooting phase and set up a Heroic Intervention. Or you could use it after you consolidate to move a further 12" to grab a key objective.

My main thought about Pivotal Roles is that if you are playing a primarily Harlequin force you will often have multiples of the main characters who previously would have been duplicating their abilities. Even the lower value abilities are worth consideration as an alternative to duplicate a non-stacking default ability.

How many times can you use the pivotal role stratagem for adding a pivotal role rather than swapping out the basic version? I feel like it's once per unit type so I could use it on a troupe master, solitaire and death jester but I haven't played in a while so I might be wrong.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Domino Shroud: I think this one kind of sucks, since it's once per battle and you can't charge afterwards. I'm not really seeing a use that warrants wasting a relic on it.

Looks to me like you could use that at the end of any phase, including enemy phases. Anything with an interrupt effect always feels like it has at least some ability to upset enemy plans. You could, for example, use it at the end of the enemy shooting phase and set up a Heroic Intervention. Or you could use it after you consolidate to move a further 12" to grab a key objective.

My main thought about Pivotal Roles is that if you are playing a primarily Harlequin force you will often have multiples of the main characters who previously would have been duplicating their abilities. Even the lower value abilities are worth consideration as an alternative to duplicate a non-stacking default ability.

Yea exactly. I think the domino shroud is one of the best relics actually. Far better then suit of hidden knives anyway. Most of the harley characters are never going to be as hard hitting as the troupes anyway and should be buffers. With the exception of the solitaire who always suicides after charging in. Now you can blink him away after the enemy moves lol. Notice it only requires you to be over 1" from enemies, so this is incredibly hard to zone out. So they probably surround him looking to shoot him, and you go "Nope!" and drop him into a building out of sight or better yet out of site and within heroic intervention range for later that turn. I think the characters all really leveled up here. You take a troupe master with pivotal roll and the reroll charge aura, because failing charges is a death sentence. You take a pair of shadow seers, one with the standard ability and the other the -6 to range because coupled with fire and fade and your bikes can now create 13" of extra distance for return fire. I think you OBVIOUSLY want a jester that stops overwatch, after that I can see the relic paired with the extra shots since it nukes multi wound infantry.

I honestly wouldn't bother with the relic sword, combat troupe masters are a trap IMO. Your better off keeping him around to buff the troupes longer because he still doesn't hit hard enough to merit throwing him away IMO. Edit: IDK I am actually on the fence with this guy, maybe a second one used as a guided missile at some primaris would be worth it but I feel like he will require to many other things to get him in and those hidden costs will mean he just breaks even usually.

Not sure which mask I would take, I still don't think soaring spite is great. Although you could now move and disembark a shadowseer and pop the CP to make all your vehicles -1 to wound which helps a lot, but I don't think the fusion pistols do enough and you still set yourself up for wrap and trap transport removal. I think I still lean midnight sorrow, that 6" pile in is amazingly useful to survive especially with twilight encore allowing you to continue to chase them and lock them down is you fail to tripoint a model.

pm713 wrote:
How many times can you use the pivotal role stratagem for adding a pivotal role rather than swapping out the basic version? I feel like it's once per unit type so I could use it on a troupe master, solitaire and death jester but I haven't played in a while so I might be wrong.

If it's before the game begins and doesn't specify it can only be used a limited numer of times, you can use it an unlimited number of times.

So you could theoretically use it any number of times and have a bunch of chars with 2 rules.


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happy_inquisitor wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Domino Shroud: I think this one kind of sucks, since it's once per battle and you can't charge afterwards. I'm not really seeing a use that warrants wasting a relic on it.

Looks to me like you could use that at the end of any phase, including enemy phases. Anything with an interrupt effect always feels like it has at least some ability to upset enemy plans. You could, for example, use it at the end of the enemy shooting phase and set up a Heroic Intervention. Or you could use it after you consolidate to move a further 12" to grab a key objective.

My main thought about Pivotal Roles is that if you are playing a primarily Harlequin force you will often have multiples of the main characters who previously would have been duplicating their abilities. Even the lower value abilities are worth consideration as an alternative to duplicate a non-stacking default ability.

Yeah, almost like having options on your characters is something players enjoy and generally always react favorably to.

Weird, that.

Hey, if GW wants to make all the rules vague, "personality trait" style things instead of wargear options that don't explicitly have a model, I am 100% game. Please gimme. You can cut my Archon's bike option and give him "Fantabulous Speedgility: This Archon Gains +6" of move and Fly for 30 points" and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

..I'm pleasantly surprised by the Harlequin rules, considering the space they had to work with. i recognize im giving a fair bit of credit to a name, but Pivotal roles allows for a fair bit of customization to go with the new relics, albeit im sure the best choices will arrive quickly to those who know the army.

Really weird to put nice rules like those in a white dward that won't be easily available for players starting the army one month later.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Really weird to put nice rules like those in a white dward that won't be easily available for players starting the army one month later.

They don't stop selling digital copies of WD.

They do stop paper copies though.
And they don't sell it in FLGS.
And you can't find the old copies here:
https://www.games-workshop.com/fr-FR/Warhammer-40-000?N=2094752787+2831895426&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AFR_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Afr_FR_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+%3C%3D+1589224560000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1589224560000]&view=all
So maybe you can find them somewhere. But it definitely won't be as easily available as if it had been in a PA book. Or in a free pdf update.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Really weird to put nice rules like those in a white dward that won't be easily available for players starting the army one month later.

They don't stop selling digital copies of WD.

Some people (me) have a weird thing about not using digital things like that.

I made a short video summary of the new Harlequin rules and some thoughts on them:
https://youtu.be/TKNRK3K3Cj0

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Really weird to put nice rules like those in a white dward that won't be easily available for players starting the army one month later.

Seems like the small page count means they could easily be reprinted in chapter approved later this year.

Twilight Pathways wrote:
I made a short video summary of the new Harlequin rules and some thoughts on them:
https://youtu.be/TKNRK3K3Cj0

Oh good. I was hoping you'd do that.

Lemondish wrote:
This Harlie update is exactly what the DW one should have been.

or Dark Eldar.

Congrats for the harlies and boo on GW for the DW. The difference in effort is a bit shocking and stupid. Thanks GW, glad that aside from chaos marines DW can be the marines you dislike.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Congrats for the harlies and boo on GW for the DW. The difference in effort is a bit shocking and stupid. Thanks GW, glad that aside from chaos marines DW can be the marines you dislike.

I apologize. I feel like I've doomed entire playerbases the way things are going

I'm sure it's just a coincidence but I'm starting to develop a persecution complex with these damn games. I play Word Bearers, Slaves to Darkness, Gloomspite, Tyranids, Deathwatch.

Now if only the new harlequin character has Good harlequin rules...

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Congrats for the harlies and boo on GW for the DW. The difference in effort is a bit shocking and stupid. Thanks GW, glad that aside from chaos marines DW can be the marines you dislike.

Welcome to the salt mines brother. Plenty of room for everyone.

 Eldarain wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Congrats for the harlies and boo on GW for the DW. The difference in effort is a bit shocking and stupid. Thanks GW, glad that aside from chaos marines DW can be the marines you dislike.

I apologize. I feel like I've doomed entire playerbases the way things are going

I'm sure it's just a coincidence but I'm starting to develop a persecution complex with these damn games. I play Word Bearers, Slaves to Darkness, Gloomspite, Tyranids, Deathwatch.

I wouldn't take it to heart, but I can see where you'd feel this way. It's alright, I'm sure it's not your fault but it seems like they may be watching you and judging effort given accordingly. LOL, I'm kidding of course.

As there is no practical way to get a physical copy of White Dwarf unless I order direct from GW, I was going to get a digital copy.

Physical copy: US$9.00
Digital copy: US$9.99

The digital copy of White Dwarf costs more than then physical copy! In what world does that make any sense at all?!?! Do I get more content in the digital copy? Is there an index with links? Can I click on pictures and it expands into a 360° model? I can't believe GW charges more for the digital version. That's just INSANE.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Congrats for the harlies and boo on GW for the DW. The difference in effort is a bit shocking and stupid. Thanks GW, glad that aside from chaos marines DW can be the marines you dislike.

Welcome to the salt mines brother. Plenty of room for everyone.

Eh, I'm just returning home, I played the Dark Angel end of 4th codex for its lifespan while the much better Vanilla codex blew it away. Remember back when DA players could only take marine squads in groups of 5 or 10 ? All that Deathwing got was fearless ? All ravenwing could do was take single, individual attack bikes and speeders and teleport homers for those awful boring Deathwing ? We had just worse storm shields and smoke for years ? Yeah that was me, hence this name. So the salt mine is a place I'm super familiar with.


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 Tamwulf wrote:
As there is no practical way to get a physical copy of White Dwarf unless I order direct from GW, I was going to get a digital copy.

Physical copy: US$9.00
Digital copy: US$9.99

The digital copy of White Dwarf costs more than then physical copy! In what world does that make any sense at all?!?! Do I get more content in the digital copy? Is there an index with links? Can I click on pictures and it expands into a 360° model? I can't believe GW charges more for the digital version. That's just INSANE.

The extra dollar is the cost of the honor or leasing the digital copy and honoring their net goblins with your business.

Harlequin rules seem to have come out pretty good.

It's nice to see some abilities to make the solitaire the scary monster he's supposed to be, but also some troupe master rules that push it closer to a solitaire as well.

Looks like the one Strat can keep being used on your characters which is good. CP can be easily bought for Harlequins as hungry as they are for it. Give all your Troupe Masters, Psykers, and the Solitaire an extra ability and not worry about replacing anything.

Meanwhile you can probably just trade what the Death Jester has (the overall useless LD debuff) for something else.

 Tamwulf wrote:
As there is no practical way to get a physical copy of White Dwarf unless I order direct from GW, I was going to get a digital copy.

Physical copy: US$9.00
Digital copy: US$9.99

The digital copy of White Dwarf costs more than then physical copy! In what world does that make any sense at all?!?! Do I get more content in the digital copy? Is there an index with links? Can I click on pictures and it expands into a 360° model? I can't believe GW charges more for the digital version. That's just INSANE.

In the UK, physical books and magazines are VAT exempt, digital versions are not (until December). Maybe it's something to do with that?