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I also like the novel In the Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco where the reductionist approach to a series of seemingly connected disasters is to posit some underlying principle or cause when it's really just random.

Phantom time hypothesis is my personal favourite one.

Almost seems plausible -- there's a long tradition in fiddling dates a little bit to make things "neater" and we did indeed "lose" 10 days or so when we switched to the Gregorian calendar.

But the major glaring issue with the idea is that it glosses over the minor detail of THE REST OF THE WORLD and how they, funnily enough might've noticed if we just magically inserted 300 odd years of fake history into being.

Probably.

I mean, I’ve lost an hour or two before, usually when I’m in deep concentration on a case.

But more than that?

I have friends that are fairly in with conspiracies quite often. I entertain them by listening and then will fairly often do my own research.

I'm an open minded guy, if you can bring legitimate evidence to the table I will weight up the plausibility then.

The 5G towers thing in the UK is next level nonsense though, I mean it's making anti-vaxers look sane.

Some of my favourite conspiracies that I believe have some plausibility:

*JFK there was more than one shooter
*9/11 was an inside job in part - this probably needs some explanation, I'll type it below.
*Epstein was murdered (almost proven I'd say)

So my 9/11 theory - Firstly I don't necessarily believe it was a true false flag... I must say the theories on tower 7 and it being a controlled explosion are very very intriguing though. Anyway, my main theory and this isn't that wide spread as far as I know is quite simple. The government or people high up in the NSA and CIA got wind that this attack was going to happen, and they let it happen. It was still Al Qaeda that performed the attack, but the authorities let them.

Another aspect to this that is interesting is the response from the US air force on the day, there were fighters on runways that were not armed and took to the air, other jets that were in the vicinity of NY were not redirected at first, between the first and second plane hitting. Just weird stuff. Someone in the US Air force who wants to counter my thinking here I would be really interested. I also accept it was an exceptional event that no one had foreseen and planned for, so a response would be confused.

You could watch any of the dozens of documentaries on the subject of the day, where the USAF actually has said "It's normal for us to have fighters on runways that are not armed and will fly"...and the common sense reasoning that literally cannot be refuted by anything but tinfoil hattery is "when we move equipment from base to base domestically, we don't arm it".

And really, what are the jets supposed to do in a hijacking? This is something another mentioned earlier but hijackings had never been seriously considered as a mechanism for something like that before.

And it's not "theories on tower 7", it's them trying to make the situation fit a narrative.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I have friends that are fairly in with conspiracies quite often. I entertain them by listening and then will fairly often do my own research.

I'm an open minded guy, if you can bring legitimate evidence to the table I will weight up the plausibility then.

The 5G towers thing in the UK is next level nonsense though, I mean it's making anti-vaxers look sane.

While I'm not saying that I am in that camp. I have my reservations about the amount of waves that are constantly flowing through our bodies all at once. I have had multiple conversations with colleagues(I work in communications for the government) about the amount of power and frequencies in constant circulation. My cell phone receives constant communications with an extremely powerful tower that is flooding our immediate area with frequencies and wavelengths. I haven't been able to find any research on the impact this has on infants in utero, developing brains, cell structure, nothing...

 Kanluwen wrote:
You could watch any of the dozens of documentaries on the subject of the day, where the USAF actually has said "It's normal for us to have fighters on runways that are not armed and will fly"...and the common sense reasoning that literally cannot be refuted by anything but tinfoil hattery is "when we move equipment from base to base domestically, we don't arm it".

And really, what are the jets supposed to do in a hijacking? This is something another mentioned earlier but hijackings had never been seriously considered as a mechanism for something like that before.

And it's not "theories on tower 7", it's them trying to make the situation fit a narrative.

Hey dude, I'm open minded like I said, and your reasoning is very just, of course it makes sense not to arm a jet that is travelling between bases.

However, it's my understanding (could be the wrong understanding) that some of the jets on the runways were there too run interceptions if needed. Maybe it's just others saying those jets were to fit their own narrative though.

I think the main issue with planes being hijacked and used as a weapon had been explored before, the specific issue on 9/11 in terms of the response was they had never considered it could be a domestic flight which I get, it wouldn't really cross your mind in ways now would it? If jets are going to be used as a weapon, it's going to be from international flights.

Again: what would the jets have done even if they were armed and in the air?

Nobody seriously considered this style of attack to be a potential event.

It's fairly obvious what I am implying they would do.

Think about it the other way, jet are in the air capable of intercepting and they don't because they don't know how to react like you say.... Someone would surely have the thought that they should intercept and shoot? 2 f-16's were in the air unarmed and were planning on ramming Flight 93 so it would certainly be a thought.

Now in terms of the first plane, then yeah, I agree with your sentiment, but the flights following if interception was capable, you think they wouldn't have pulled the trigger?

BTW, I am talking about intercepting all flights after Flight 11, it is unreasonable for anyone to expect that flight to have been intercepted on that day. It's probably unreasonable for flight 175 to be as well due to being only 20 minutes behind flight 11.

Flight 77 hit the pentagon 45 minutes later than flight 11 though, and only jets were scrambled after the pentagon was hit, and it was those jets that were unarmed... They didn't have armed jets on standby to cover Washington D.C?? That absolutely does not make sense to me whatsoever personally.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They didn't have armed jets on standby to cover Washington D.C?? That absolutely does not make sense to me whatsoever personally.

Why should they? The USA wasn't at war with any nation willing/capable of mounting a military operation to attack Washington with jets. It's also far enough within their own boarders that any "jet flyby", such as as the UK gets with Russia every so often, just isn't on the cards for Washington.

 Overread wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They didn't have armed jets on standby to cover Washington D.C?? That absolutely does not make sense to me whatsoever personally.

Why should they? The USA wasn't at war with any nation willing/capable of mounting a military operation to attack Washington with jets. It's also far enough within their own boarders that any "jet flyby", such as as the UK gets with Russia every so often, just isn't on the cards for Washington.

I'm an overly cautious person obviously

How about the SAS killing Princess Diana?

That's a good one.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They didn't have armed jets on standby to cover Washington D.C?? That absolutely does not make sense to me whatsoever personally.

Why should they? The USA wasn't at war with any nation willing/capable of mounting a military operation to attack Washington with jets. It's also far enough within their own boarders that any "jet flyby", such as as the UK gets with Russia every so often, just isn't on the cards for Washington.

I'm an overly cautious person obviously

Meh, you'd Fall under normal here but then again collective paranoia is a defining trait of beeing swiss.

 r_squared wrote:
How about the SAS killing Princess Diana?

That's a good one.

You've just reminded me of another of my favourites.

The problem is too many people (myself included above talking about the US Air force) think they are putting two and two together to get their four, they don't understand one of the two's is actually a seven though...

Yeah, lots of strange goings on before her death, it looks like she could have been killed, but was she? I'm not sure, and certainly it wouldn't have been by the SAS.

I don't go into conspiracy theory much, but I do listen to prophecy, which now sounds very much like the same thing to casual observers.

We are living in the End Times, this much is certain, and are thus now living on the End Times religious clock. Expect major events in sequence from this point onwards. How far along the eschatological path we are varies from opinion. However many are called to be Watchmen, and some of them are repeatedly reliable. I and many others prepped on account of the warnings received, and the current changes do not surprise me as I can check them off the list as they occur.
It has 'surprised' me as to how many of the changes have occurred, as they require a systemic deletion of our rights and freedoms and radical changes to our circumstances, and people will want to see them gone. We are on the slippery slope to a one world government and final dictatorship, which will be followed by the apocalypse. I am now certain that we are in the early stages of this happening, before I was not sure of the timing or whether it was due in my generation.

But all prophecy is inherently self fulfilling?

The second such a prediction is made, human beans human bean, and look for connections?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyways. If anyone is looking for debunk types on YouTube?

Scimandan for quite sober take downs.

Creaky Blinder for more poking fun.

A lot of Prophesies rely on known repeat patterns.

Prophesying a great war; there's always potential for another massive war and with technology always marching on they get worse; floods and disasters have always happened; same as for things like plagues - heck Cornoa is nothing near as bad as something like the Black Death.

In addition there's aspects of reporting people forget about. People think there's way more earthquakes and floods and fires today, but they forget that such things happened in the past. Heck the Aztecs and Myans of South America were wiped out heavily by massive droughts that ended much of their civilization before a great war against disease and Spanish invaders destroyed them. For them it was the "end times disaster" yet we know it was but one chapter in the history of the world.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But all prophecy is inherently self fulfilling?

The second such a prediction is made, human beans human bean, and look for connections?

This can be true, but that was then this is now.
You can have secular or religious predictions that are effected by how we react to them. I have seen this in my own life, but now decades later I have found that we have stumbled into the Book of Revelations. This is a whole different scale, much of what is about to happen cannot be stopped.

Some of the early signs are now here. I was warned in mid through to late 2019 there was a plague coming from the same source that told the Christian community other things that came true. Pandemics are rare, less than once a century events there was no guarantee on e would occur anytime soon. Yet it happened.
A lot of the advice is practical on one sense and esoteric on others. We were told to prepare, and this we can do; but we also know that things will go rapidly downhill from there and ultimately be entirely reliant on faith for survival.

Faith for survival ehh , like the selfflagelating idiots that spread the plague instead of removing it ?

....

Also are you aware of the 1520 1620 1720 1820 1920 etc meme?

Ya , that one is surprisingly accurate.
Pandemics are not the exception for mankind.

Got to say, if there was a time to think the world was ending I'd have put my money on the first half of the 20th Century. War, Famine (Global depression), Plague etc etc.
Compared to then, we're almost looking in pretty good shape.

 r_squared wrote:
Got to say, if there was a time to think the world was ending I'd have put my money on the first half of the 20th Century. War, Famine (Global depression), Plague etc etc.
Compared to then, we're almost looking in pretty good shape.

Na , personally we are at a point where we got multiple powerhungry political entities which are all capable of blowing us into the Next stone age.

In other words i assume we are Long past the bottleneck for getting past the great Filter for out Development Level as a species.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Na , personally we are at a point where we got multiple powerhungry political entities which are all capable of blowing us into the Next stone age.

We had that during the Cold War... and fingers were much closer to the buttons then.

I think we're drifting somewhat off topic here, though.

 Jjohnso11 wrote:
I agree its a myth that the planet was discovered to have been a sphere in 1492 by Cristopher Columbus, but to say that Homer, Hesiod, the ancient Israelites, early Egyptians and Meopotamians didn't believe the earth was flat is wrong. Just moving the goal posts.. nothing to see here.

Just as an aside since I've actually written a PhD on Iron Age Levantine and Bronze Age Mesopotamian perceptions of landscape: both are very complex and whilst elite cosmologies depict flat earths in water there is no tradition of rendering land with any realism in art not describing it in cartographic terms in literature. Consequently, it is problematic to take these symbolic reconstructions (generally from cult-loaded contexts) as representations of how people understood the actual physical properties of earth.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Faith for survival ehh , like the selfflagelating idiots that spread the plague instead of removing it ?

Plague is only the beginning, in fact it isn't even the beginning its just the first thing to hit us all noticably hard.
Faith for survival is something more drastic. Namely the Rapture, and if you miss that holding out for the Second Coming.

For me the first warning was Brexit, because I wasn't expecting it to happen, yet Bible scholars were saying that for the UK to be in the correct position for the Apocalypse it has to be outside the EU. I wouldn't not have considered Brexit in any way likely back when I heard this in about 2010. When Brexit happened in 2016 I was told by a friend in the World Bank that it would not go ahead, it was being blocked indirectly and it looked like this was the case, but I was not concvinced that would work, we were on the eschatological clock and thus things would occur in their proper order.

There will be an economic collapse and the rise of a very plausible man who seems to have all the answers and will unite the planet in 'peace', who will restart the global economy under an electronic currency. This much was known, but the immediate framework is now in place. However COVID-19 is not the direct catalyst. Most sources hearing from the Lord are saying it is a precursor to something worse. What that is I cannot say.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Also are you aware of the 1520 1620 1720 1820 1920 etc meme?

No I wasnt.

Basically about all 100 years (mostly on the 20's ) we get a pandemic killing a bunch of Millions Of us off.

Generally the only real impact These had were improved living conditions and a boost in medical understanding.

Here is a General list .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
So no, infact this one here will probably not even get close to challanging the status quo of nationstates unless it really really get's it's game up which we all hope it doesn't.

Well, when something terrible happens, you sure see prophecies of doom / end times coming back in mind. It's easy to connect the dots when your brain is set to look for them at all costs.

It's not really different from conspiracy theories, actually.

 Orlanth wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Faith for survival ehh , like the selfflagelating idiots that spread the plague instead of removing it ?

Plague is only the beginning, in fact it isn't even the beginning its just the first thing to hit us all noticably hard.
Faith for survival is something more drastic. Namely the Rapture, and if you miss that holding out for the Second Coming.

For me the first warning was Brexit, because I wasn't expecting it to happen, yet Bible scholars were saying that for the UK to be in the correct position for the Apocalypse it has to be outside the EU. I wouldn't not have considered Brexit in any way likely back when I heard this in about 2010. When Brexit happened in 2016 I was told by a friend in the World Bank that it would not go ahead, it was being blocked indirectly and it looked like this was the case, but I was not concvinced that would work, we were on the eschatological clock and thus things would occur in their proper order.

There will be an economic collapse and the rise of a very plausible man who seems to have all the answers and will unite the planet in 'peace', who will restart the global economy under an electronic currency. This much was known, but the immediate framework is now in place. However COVID-19 is not the direct catalyst. Most sources hearing from the Lord are saying it is a precursor to something worse. What that is I cannot say.

There are better places than Dakka to continue that discussion, however.

One could argue that we have an equivalent of those self flagellants in this crisis today...

Interesting conspiracies....hmmm. I'm pretty sure we've all heard of the conspiracy about hitler not committing suicide but ending up in a latin American colony for the rest of his life. I've heard people legit believe in that one.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Interesting conspiracies....hmmm. I'm pretty sure we've all heard of the conspiracy about hitler not committing suicide but ending up in a latin American colony for the rest of his life. I've heard people legit believe in that one.

While it is rather silly now, at the time it wasn't really all that crazy. Lots of Nazi big wigs did indeed flee to south america, those who weren't immediately rounded up for Nuremberg anyway. The Soviets were the ones who captured the area around the bunker and they weren't exactly open and forthright with information. It wasn't really inconceivable that Hitler could have faked his death and escaped. There were actually plans in place for him to escape, he simply chose not to use them and offed himself. Which is just enough fodder for people to maybe consider if he actually did.

So its a conspiracy theory now, but its rooted in the post-ww2 murkiness that shrouded the actual events that took place then. Information that never came to light till after the Soviet Union collapsed was the missing half of the equation.