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GoatboyBeta wrote:
Whole bundle of "but why?" on display in Hyde park today https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/19/anti-face-mask-protesters-take-london-streets-wont-tracked-poisoned-13010504/

but will get my name and face in the media and no doubt tag myself on the insta-book for those sweet sweet virtue points, that'll show 'the man'

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Whole bundle of "but why?" on display in Hyde park today https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/19/anti-face-mask-protesters-take-london-streets-wont-tracked-poisoned-13010504/

but will get my name and face in the media and no doubt tag myself on the insta-book for those sweet sweet virtue points, that'll show 'the man'

The shadow collective?

or at least those parts of it that have displeased their lizardy overlords "agent x-4 you failed at [redacted], two weeks cockwombling monitering for you" "but your majesty..." "silence unless you fancy three month of Mumset detail"

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
or at least those parts of it that have displeased their lizardy overlords "agent x-4 you failed at [redacted], two weeks cockwombling monitering for you" "but your majesty..." "silence unless you fancy three month of Mumset detail"

I believe the latter falls under "cruel and unusual punishment", doesn't it?

...




they do say the secret of comedy is timing though eh ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/19/us/federal-judge-esther-salas-shooting-investigation/index.html

It is not yet known whether the gunman was a FedEx employee or someone posing to be an employee.

...errmmm ... that one is a tough one to hazard a guess at.

So, this is the judge for the epstein case right?


Just so i understand, it's been not really talked about over here.

A related case, not THE case.

 reds8n wrote:
A related case, not THE case.

Well, i mean, that situation really is fishy, imo.
so.

eh, i'd still wait for propper investigation and law to proceed before i speculate.

Quite.

She is after all a judge and her husband is a legal attorney so could well be related to other cases -- or indeed just a random horrible event.

Hell, one would suggest that if one was determined to commit such a heinous act due to, say, an entirely different case, this would be the ideal time to do so.

But then of course you could flip that and then think that if you were trying to influence the Epstein case then.. etc etc etc ad nauseum

i meant more the whole Eppstein situation, like why was he not guarded etc.

I think it makes more sense if Epstein had suicide done to him. and It makes sense if he was persuaded to cooperate allowing for the circumstances. It is hard to commit suicide, but easier to get someone in despair to cooperate with their own demise.
Repeating this with Maxwell will be tricky though.

Does the 'person murdered so skeletons would stay in his closet, murder made to look like a suicide' scenario count as a conspiracy? Seems more like a cost of doing business for organized crime.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Does the 'person murdered so skeletons would stay in his closet, murder made to look like a suicide' scenario count as a conspiracy? Seems more like a cost of doing business for organized crime.

Realistically speaking, murdering someone to keep things quiet is the worst way to keep secrets. Bodies generate investigations. People who want to keep things secret don't want investigations. When organized crime produces a body, it's usually to send some other message, not to keep secrets. See Russia as exhibit A, which doesn't even put much effort into hiding its involvement in dozens of murders and attempted murders because the goal is intimidation of expats and dissidents.

For Epstein does make a very compelling narrative and a big part of the appeal of conspiracy theories is how they turn the chaotic into compelling - plausible - narratives. People act like it's some great mystery, but it's honestly just not. I mean really, why would a 66 year old pedophile sex trafficker who dodged the bullet once ever want to kill himself rather than be in prison? I honestly can't think of a single reason (sarcasm). People act like it's hard to do, but that's just hogwash. 50,000 people kill themselves in the US every year. It's the 10th leading cause of death in this country. Sure, lots of people try and fail but it's just asinine to invoke 'suicide is hard' as evidence that a particular person couldn't do it (and men are more than 3x more likely to succeed than women). I find it completely unsurprising that cameras in a prison don't work (nothing in American prisons works) and a pair of lazy corrections officers? That's where we stuff the washouts from American law enforcement and we've seen how low that threshold can be. It does probably cross a threshold many conspiracy's never get close to in that it could be true. It's not like it's totally impossible or nonsensical, but it's a circumstantial claim based on the compelling narrative it proposes more than anything, so I'd say it's a conspiracy theory until something less circumstantial shows up to support it but I'm also not surprised it's taken off in a way that "America faked the moon landing" never has.

Yeah, it turns out that judge had also convicted a gang leader to 45 years in prison, and there were apparently multiple other reasons she might be targeted.
Plus, the Epstein case she's tied to AFAI understand was about a financial thing to do with DB, not directly related to Epstein's pedophilia ring.

 LordofHats wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Does the 'person murdered so skeletons would stay in his closet, murder made to look like a suicide' scenario count as a conspiracy? Seems more like a cost of doing business for organized crime.

Realistically speaking, murdering someone to keep things quiet is the worst way to keep secrets. Bodies generate investigations. People who want to keep things secret don't want investigations. When organized crime produces a body, it's usually to send some other message, not to keep secrets. See Russia as exhibit A, which doesn't even put much effort into hiding its involvement in dozens of murders and attempted murders because the goal is intimidation of expats and dissidents.

For Epstein does make a very compelling narrative and a big part of the appeal of conspiracy theories is how they turn the chaotic into compelling - plausible - narratives. People act like it's some great mystery, but it's honestly just not. I mean really, why would a 66 year old pedophile sex trafficker who dodged the bullet once ever want to kill himself rather than be in prison? I honestly can't think of a single reason (sarcasm). People act like it's hard to do, but that's just hogwash. 50,000 people kill themselves in the US every year. It's the 10th leading cause of death in this country. Sure, lots of people try and fail but it's just asinine to invoke 'suicide is hard' as evidence that a particular person couldn't do it (and men are more than 3x more likely to succeed than women). I find it completely unsurprising that cameras in a prison don't work (nothing in American prisons works) and a pair of lazy corrections officers? That's where we stuff the washouts from American law enforcement and we've seen how low that threshold can be. It does probably cross a threshold many conspiracy's never get close to in that it could be true. It's not like it's totally impossible or nonsensical, but it's a circumstantial claim based on the compelling narrative it proposes more than anything, so I'd say it's a conspiracy theory until something less circumstantial shows up to support it but I'm also not surprised it's taken off in a way that "America faked the moon landing" never has.

Well I stand corrected and learned something today, thank you.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Yeah, it turns out that judge had also convicted a gang leader to 45 years in prison, and there were apparently multiple other reasons she might be targeted.
Plus, the Epstein case she's tied to AFAI understand was about a financial thing to do with DB, not directly related to Epstein's pedophilia ring.

The apparent shooter is a well known lawyer (who has apparently committed suicide), who had an issue with her for being a 'feminist' judge.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53480166

a self-described "anti-feminist" lawyer who had sued nightclubs over ladies' night discounts, the federal government over a law protecting women from violence and a university over women's studies courses.

He also brought a lawsuit before Judge Salas in 2015 challenging the male-only military draft.

In a 1,700-page memoir he published online, Den Hollander said he had "wanted to ask the Judge out, but thought she might hold me in contempt".

NBC News reports that he also wrote of fantasising about the rape of a female judge who had presided over his divorce case.

Den Hollander had written that he was diagnosed with melanoma cancer two years ago.

"Death's hand is on my left shoulder... nothing in this life matters anymore," he wrote in his screed.

"The only problem with a life lived too long under Feminazi rule is that a man ends up with so many enemies he can't even the score with all of them."

So... yeah. Apparently not linked to the Epstein related case (unless that's what his masters wanted you to think!*), just a frakked up individual taking out his issues on other people.
Apparently he's also linked to the recent shooting of a lawyer from California. But the news bit I saw on TV tonight was vague about that.

*joking, but from a conspiracy theory point of view, this guy is the picture perfect idiot to hand a gun and send out to die in 'blaze of glory' to cover up 'the real motives.' He's got so many issues of his own, including the cognitive dissonance, that looking for another motive behind them would be fruitless.

What's interesting, from the CT point of view, is that it's easy to jump to conclusions about Epstein but the real answer seems much more mundane if no less tragic. Conspiracy Theorists will likely discount the more mundane explanation (possibly using Voss's "real motives" excuse) and promote the incorrect but more interesting and sensational narrative.

Slipspace wrote:
What's interesting, from the CT point of view, is that it's easy to jump to conclusions about Epstein but the real answer seems much more mundane if no less tragic. Conspiracy Theorists will likely discount the more mundane explanation (possibly using Voss's "real motives" excuse) and promote the incorrect but more interesting and sensational narrative.

tbh, the mundane explanation, would also throw some shade torwards the jail institutions and standards, i guess buissness is apporpriate there?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

He also brought a lawsuit before Judge Salas in 2015 challenging the male-only military draft.

TBF, i can get behind the equal application of conscription.
but that is a POV from over yonder, where conscription is mandatory ..

Not Online!!! wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

He also brought a lawsuit before Judge Salas in 2015 challenging the male-only military draft.

TBF, i can get behind the equal application of conscription.
but that is a POV from over yonder, where conscription is mandatory ..

Its particularly strange in context. Most extreme anti-feminists like this guy really hate the idea of women in the military. So to challenge the male-only aspect of our (mostly defunct and irrelevant, but not illegal or unconstitutional) draft law is a weird bit of cognitive dissonance, because if he had won the case, it'd be 'ladies night' for the duration of the next military crisis that actually warranted dusting off the draft.

Voss wrote:
Its particularly strange in context. Most extreme anti-feminists like this guy really hate the idea of women in the military. So to challenge the male-only aspect of our (mostly defunct and irrelevant, but not illegal or unconstitutional) draft law is a weird bit of cognitive dissonance, because if he had won the case, it'd be 'ladies night' for the duration of the next military crisis that actually warranted dusting off the draft.

It's actually not particularly strange.

It's a new trend/tactic in conservative leaning political litigants. The same Edward Blum used against Harvard's admissions process just a year or so ago. Blum doesn't give a damn about Asians and their ability to get into Harvard. He just wants to abolish affirmative action initiatives, but rather than attacking it from the angle of "it's unfair against rich white elites" as past litigants have, this method attacks such legislation from the other side by picking a disadvantaged group and arguing the laws are actually discriminating against them. It's kind of a mixed bag, where they sort of have a point but it's also just a really transparent bid to hide bigotry behind a veneer of 'fighting for equality'.

Except, seeing clips of this guy in action, he DID approach his cases from the angle of 'its unfair against us men.' And he made no effort to hide his bigotry behind anything like a veneer.

There are a lot of clips circulating from his 'ladies night' lawsuit where he literally rants about 'feminazis' and how unfair it is for men to pay $20 to go to a club on ladies night when 'they' don't have to.

He never even vaguely used the tactic you're describing. He was open and proud about his basic bigotry.

Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

The conspiracy, or the theory about the conspiracy?

 Dysartes wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

The conspiracy, or the theory about the conspiracy?

I mean most conspiracies, especially the typicall ones, aka shadow government etc, are just too obvious.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Conspiracy Theories have become much more popular with the rise of "Pop Entertainment". I say this like it is fact, but it is just my hypothesis.

I mean, I think it's a pretty good one?

I'm not sure conspiracy theories as we know them can exist within modern media.

As in are impossible to exist at all?

I'd never say impossible.

But I do think it's noteworthy how much media and celebrity plays in the conspiracy theory space.

fair point, how many people have listened to Alex jones f.e.

There's a whole slew of these, primarily in the social media universe.

which is probably a reason why in conjunction with algorithms and recomendations we see a lot more outspoken and obvious populations of conspiracy sphere believers.

TBF: i feel like most of the personalities, often buiding their own cults, are in it solely for the money.

Not Online!!! wrote:
TBF: i feel like most of the personalities, often buiding their own cults, are in it solely for the money.

I'll certainly always remember that Rush Limbaugh left the state of Florida just a breath after telling his listeners Hurricane Irma was a hoax and that they shouldn't believe the 'liberal media' and it's 'lies'.

 LordofHats wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
TBF: i feel like most of the personalities, often buiding their own cults, are in it solely for the money.

I'll certainly always remember that Rush Limbaugh left the state of Florida just a breath after telling his listeners Hurricane Irma was a hoax and that they shouldn't believe the 'liberal media' and it's 'lies'.

"They put chems in the water that turn the Frigging Frogs GAY!!!!"

Proceeds to sell potentially harmfull stuff full of "chems"....




But yeah, alot of the scene seems based around these people, managing to make people believe they are literally the second coming of sliced bread, and everyone besides them is wrong.

Basically an echochamber cult.

funny normally i only need to talk about things that way when i have to deal with religious sects