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I will continue to use them, eventually rebasing them if the need arises. I prefer their estetics, expecially in the vehicles...

I don't have issues with the redesign(even of I only likes intercessor...but the differenze with tactical are so minimal that I think they don't deserve a new collection).
However, the change in scale was an unnecessary and ill-conceived nudge to recollect everything again. It is also a fuss about transporting them (this Is a general GW issue recently, AoS under this regard is exemplary).

The only usefulness I personally see in them is to be used with stormcast as parts for Thunder Warriors conversions.

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

BaconCatBug wrote:Also, did you miss the part where I said 40k used to embrace world-building and imagination rather than click together duplo toys? 40k is not meant to be easy-to-build Mary Sue Marines, but sadly that is what GW have turned it into in the drive for profit.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you know that ETB Space Marines (and in fact many factions, such as Cadians, Eldar, Tyranids, Ork and Chaos) have existed LONG before Primaris? I know, about a third of my Cadians are made up of those snap-together models.
Huh. Would you look at that - aside from ONE MODEL with a purity seal, they have absolutely no parchment, no skulls, no chains, ropes or any kind of decoration!

Consistent arguments please!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Come on, you've not explained how Mr Squat Marine with his clean, featureless armour isn't exactly as toyetic as the Primaris.

I'm not making any comment on if the Primaris are toyetic or not. I'm making comment that any design feature or complaint you can level at the Primaris, I can apply to the old marines too (save for one, proportion - and even then, the SM Heroes range takes steps to alleviate that too).

It's the Stewart Test.

"I know it if I see it"? So, completely subjective, and entirely useless at the level of debate I expected from you?

Try again.

jeff white wrote:Some posters focus on the models and from there the game as if the only evidence is in physical models.

If that wasn't the concern, why would you make comments about the models then?
Don't bring something in to the argument if you're not going to defend it. Either the models ARE relevant, or they're not.

Anyways where do my dudes fit into this context? They see restartes for what they are. Heresy.

Your dudes seeing Primaris as heresy? You're welcome to it. But the whole "for what they are", like you can definitely prove that they are heresy objectively? You've been utterly unable to prove your argument beyond empty gestures to some perceived authority and superiority.

Vaktathi wrote:I think the issue may not be so much in the accessorizing.

The old marines look like something out of the Heavy Metal animated movie, they're much more animation and comic art given form.

Really? Look at the pictures I've been posting here - can you really tell me that the squatting Marines I've just posted have more animation and comic art than some of the Primaris art and sculpts? If that really is the case that you feel that way, fair enough, but I don't share that opinion at all.

The Primaris marines on the other hand, by dint of being more realistically scaled, have less of that fantastical edge (they're still very fantastical, don't get me wrong), and a lot of the game art has gone this route as well. With the shift in GW's art styling over the last few years, new generations of artists and significantly more (almost exclusively) computer assisted depictions, coupled with the scale change and more realistic stylings, it kinda gives everything a different flavor. Less proudly defiant striking metal-band poses, more "tacticool" poses.

Again, look at the oldMarines I've just posted, and been posting repeatedly - where are these "proudly defiant metal band poses"? On a select handful of models, sure, but not the whole range! And again, there's been plenty of similarly posed Primaris heroes!

I'm not saying Primaris are flawless. I'm saying that any sins the Primaris are guilty of (barring being better proportioned) the old Marines are too, and it feels like an argument in bad faith to ignore that.

We can use these earlier examples to illustrate it

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
What about these two Marines?

Spoiler:

Conversely, what about these pictures?

Spoiler:

The very bottom pic could basically be a thinly reskinned Call of Duty game cover

How? And, more importantly, why not this one too? Please, like I've asked plenty of other folks, how me a CoD cover and compare them side by side. They look nothing alike! And, at the same time, show how the other art I've just posted wouldn't also fit that.

and it's not really due to anything different about the marines equipment or decoration. The more realistic interpretation, as expressed in both the art and the models, definitely changes the flavor. There's often either significantly less color or a wash of one and fewer contrasts, and a darker tone in general. (I actually quite like that Space Wolves picture however)

But there's plenty of Firstborn Marine art that shares that same colour style and "realistic" art design. At the risk of repeating myself it's not exclusive to Primaris.
If someone has a problem with, say, art design post 1990, SAY THAT, not "Primaris suck". If someone has a problem with Space Marines not being walking cathedrals, SAY THAT, instead of "Primaris suck". That way, we all get a better idea of where the problem lies, and know it's not just some irrational hatred of models that otherwise barely look any different from classic Astartes.

Using some of the previous examples, we can look at this same trend with videogames, Duke Nukem 3D and CoD

Spoiler:

I think a lot of us underestimate how much of the classic Space Marine look and feel was tied to that fundamental 80's/90's Blanchian aesthetic. Whether that is good or bad is going to be entirely subjective. I enjoy the larger scale of the Primaris marines in many ways, the models themselves are marvelous from a technical perspective, but at the same time, they really do feel less "40k" in some hard to explain way (and their hamfisted background is awful, but we'll ignore that for now).

I don't see anything of Blanche in those squat monopose blank armoured Space Marines. But they're still Space Marines, still recognisably so, and despite not looking like that classic artwork, I don't hear any kind of uproar about "NOT REAL MARINES".
If I did hear that, I'd actually have a lot more sympathy and respect for the people who so vocally oppose Primaris, because they'd at least be consistent. So, when Brutus actually said that they didn't like blank Marines, Primaris or not, I finally understood their point better, because they were being consistent and not just pointing at Primaris alone and being blind to everything else. And so even though I may have disagreed with them on how blinged up a Space Marine should look, at least I know that they're being consistent.
And, as for the examples, aside from the red background, I don't see any artistic similarity to Nukem on that first Space Marine, and aside from a similar pose, I don't see any similarity between the Primaris and CoD. Could you break the analysis down further on them, because I'm not seeing it.

the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

If you like classic Marines, odds are you already had some. If you already had some, you almost certainly have spare bits. If you don't have spare bits, you almost certainly know someone else who does, given the popularity of Space Marines. If you don't even have that, Primaris Marine kits come with plenty of purity seals, alternative shoulder pads, shields, and hanging relics. And if that doesn't work for you, there's always bits sellers.
But, more on the idea of "GW should make the kit contain everything I want to fulfil all my personal aesthetic desires perfectly!", does that mean that I should have loads of human heads and lasgun arms in a Tau Fire Warrior box, in case I want to make Gue'Vesa?

Only people invested in the hobby could tell the difference between old tactical marines and new primaris. Also what’s wrong with ETB models they’ve been around forever.

Also why are people so terrified of the aesthetic changing (except it hasn’t) 40k? The only major difference is putting scopes on weapons and giving them proportions that don’t make them look stumpy.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

techsoldaten wrote:To those saying gothic armor was not part of the brand - sure, there's examples that don't incorporate it. There's also examples that do. It captured my imagination at an early age and it's still part of how I think about Space Marines.

Just because it's not part of every model doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The style seems to be absent from NuMarines and I feel like that's a loss.

By that same logic, all the plain armoured Marines, just because it's not part of every model, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can't say "well not all Space Marines have gothic armour BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL EXISTS", when the same argument can be used to support blank armour.

"By that same logic"

I see no logic to what you have said, just attempts to change the subject and make it look like you have some point by insulting everyone until they no longer care to talk to you.

Gothic armor has been part of the brand since the earliest days of 40k. This is not an argument, this is a fact.

Here are early examples many people recognize as gothic armor. I can pull hundreds more from various editions and tie them to specific models.









No one is arguing this is the only style of armor. You are making that up.

Everything else you said is garbage. Stop wasting everyone's time.

Templarted wrote:
Only people invested in the hobby could tell the difference between old tactical marines and new primaris. Also what’s wrong with ETB models they’ve been around forever.

I would be super interested to do some kind of social experiment where people who've never seen 40k before and have no real idea of the setting/lore and see just how many of them actually notice major differences between the old marines and Primaris, and more importantly, if they can identify that the Primaris comes from 40k, instead of things like Halo or CoD.

Also why are people so terrified of the aesthetic changing (except it hasn’t) 40k? The only major difference is putting scopes on weapons and giving them proportions that don’t make them look stumpy.

Even the scopes have been around longer than Primaris! There were removable scopes on 5th edition Tacticals, and units like Sternguard Veterans have scoped bolters too!

I treat different marine models like armour marks. My squads have models that range from second edition to eighth mixed together - Warhammer is not a clean universe and given its scale and scope, Marines will almost certainly vary radically given the length and breadth of their combat and experiences. It makes the units way more fun to look at, and feels almost 'historical'.

Also feth spending £35 on ten models with less options than the previous, cheaper kit.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

techsoldaten wrote:To those saying gothic armor was not part of the brand - sure, there's examples that don't incorporate it. There's also examples that do. It captured my imagination at an early age and it's still part of how I think about Space Marines.

Just because it's not part of every model doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The style seems to be absent from NuMarines and I feel like that's a loss.

By that same logic, all the plain armoured Marines, just because it's not part of every model, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can't say "well not all Space Marines have gothic armour BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL EXISTS", when the same argument can be used to support blank armour.

"By that same logic"

I see no logic to what you have said, just attempts to change the subject and make it look like you have some point by insulting everyone until they no longer care to talk to you.

Gothic armor has been part of the brand since the earliest days of 40k. This is not an argument, this is a fact.

Here are early examples many people recognize as gothic armor. I can pull hundreds more from various editions and tie them to specific models.









No one is arguing this is the only style of armor. You are making that up.

Everything else you said is garbage. Stop wasting everyone's time.

And yet the models from the same era are plain and unadorned except for the Tac-cool items some people donl tlike on the new models - i have dozens of them and only slightly later did we see the some (a few) models beginning to have the "gothic" style and these were almost with exception for characters or models like the Ordo Malleus /Grey Knights.

Almost all Loyal Marines have ALWAYS been quite plain unless you wanted to add stuff to them - exactly as Primaris are now - Chaos Marines are Chaos....as in all the ones in the images above

 Mr Morden wrote:
And yet the models from the same era are plain and unadorned except for the Tac-cool items some people donl tlike on the new models - i have dozens of them and only slightly later did we see the some (a few) models beginning to have the "gothic" style and these were almost with exception for characters or models like the Ordo Malleus /Grey Knights.

Almost all Loyal Marines have ALWAYS been quite plain unless you wanted to add stuff to them - exactly as Primaris are now - Chaos Marines are Chaos....as in all the ones in the images above

"And yet the models from the same era are plain and unadorned except for the Tac-cool items some people donl tlike on the new models" - no. This is not true.

You are overgeneralizing to pretend to have a point and clearly know very little about the Rogue Trader era. Look at the World Eaters from Realm of Chaos, look at the color pages from the original 40k book for examples of ample adornment.

"Almost all Loyal Marines have ALWAYS been quite plain" - no. This is not factual, the sentence barely makes any sense in that it could mean quite a few things.

It also directly contradicts your previous point. If all models are plain and unadorned, then almost all loyalist marines could not be plain. An either / or does not permit exception.

Stop pretending everyone else on this board is stupid.

 techsoldaten wrote:

By that same logic, all the plain armoured Marines, just because it's not part of every model, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can't say "well not all Space Marines have gothic armour BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL EXISTS", when the same argument can be used to support blank armour.

"By that same logic"

I see no logic to what you have said, just attempts to change the subject and make it look like you have some point by insulting everyone until they no longer care to talk to you.

Changing the subject? I've been consistently asking questions that no-one has answered, and instead move the goalposts. Don't accuse people of changing the topic when you won't answer questions I've consistently been putting in your court.

Gothic armor has been part of the brand since the earliest days of 40k. This is not an argument, this is a fact.

I'm not denying that. But tell me what's gothic about the ETB old Marines I've been posting.
Flat, curved armour. No ornamentation. The same complaints levelled at Primaris Marines. Care to explain why?

All I'm asking for is a degree of consistency. Show me why flat, easy build, unadorned old Marines are widely accepted, but Primaris Marines, who have plenty of their own ornamentation and "gothic" art aren't.

Here are early examples many people recognize as gothic armor. I can pull hundreds more from various editions and tie them to specific models.









No one is arguing this is the only style of armor. You are making that up.

Disagree. Check my spoiler tag.
That's a lot of people saying that certain armours supposedly aren't valid. Gothic styled armour is but one of several. So, as much as you can link to art styles that support gothic, there's plenty of art styles that support plainer Marines and even Primaris styles.

Everything else you said is garbage. Stop wasting everyone's time.

Answer my questions first. Shouldn't be hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blood reaper wrote:I treat different marine models like armour marks. My squads have models that range from second edition to eighth mixed together - Warhammer is not a clean universe and given its scale and scope, Marines will almost certainly vary radically given the length and breadth of their combat and experiences. It makes the units way more fun to look at, and feels almost 'historical'.

Exactly. There's isn't a single definitive "true" Space Marine design, beyond chunky bolters and big curved pauldrons.

Also feth spending £35 on ten models with less options than the previous, cheaper kit.

Now THAT'S a take I can understand. Although, in all fairness, the Tactical Squad kit before the current one was also cheaper than the current one.

techsoldaten wrote:"And yet the models from the same era are plain and unadorned except for the Tac-cool items some people donl tlike on the new models" - no. This is not true.

You are overgeneralizing to pretend to have a point and clearly know very little about the Rogue Trader era. Look at the World Eaters from Realm of Chaos, look at the color pages from the original 40k book for examples of ample adornment.

All well and good, but there's been decades since RT. What about all those Tactical Marines I've been posting earlier in the thread who has no ornamentation?

It's almost like there's a great range of aesthetics, of which RT is one of several.

I sold mine. They just look silly next to Primaris.

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

I find the primaris space marine kits to be a step backwards from a modeling perspective from the 5th ed. era analogous kits they're replacing. I'd rather build and paint a Tactical Squad than an Intercessor squad, an Assault Squad than an Inceptor Squad, or a Devastator Squad than a Hellblaster Squad. I'd rather my marines be varied than uniform, and honestly I'd rather they not be twice the height of the skitarii/inquisitors/guardsmen I'm going to be fielding alongside them. The fact that I could buy a bland primaris kit and a varied DW vets kit and make more interesting looking DW intercessors isn't super appealing to me - if Primaris obsolete standard marines I'll just use my standard marines as counts-as primaris. I've had counts-as armies for multiple editions anyway, when I played GSC and Harlequins in 5th and 6th, so that's not new territory for me anyway.

I think the blinged out armor is stupid. An unfortunate situation given what BA kits look like. I prefer simple utilitarian armor.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

techsoldaten wrote:To those saying gothic armor was not part of the brand - sure, there's examples that don't incorporate it. There's also examples that do. It captured my imagination at an early age and it's still part of how I think about Space Marines.

Just because it's not part of every model doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The style seems to be absent from NuMarines and I feel like that's a loss.

By that same logic, all the plain armoured Marines, just because it's not part of every model, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can't say "well not all Space Marines have gothic armour BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL EXISTS", when the same argument can be used to support blank armour.

"By that same logic"

I see no logic to what you have said, just attempts to change the subject and make it look like you have some point by insulting everyone until they no longer care to talk to you.

Gothic armor has been part of the brand since the earliest days of 40k. This is not an argument, this is a fact.

Here are early examples many people recognize as gothic armor. I can pull hundreds more from various editions and tie them to specific models.

Spoiler:

No one is arguing this is the only style of armor. You are making that up.

Everything else you said is garbage. Stop wasting everyone's time.

I can do that too.









I also added a photo of how complex and multi-pose space marines were. For everyone saying that monopose -ETB models are a new thing.

 Jjohnso11 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

techsoldaten wrote:To those saying gothic armor was not part of the brand - sure, there's examples that don't incorporate it. There's also examples that do. It captured my imagination at an early age and it's still part of how I think about Space Marines.

Just because it's not part of every model doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The style seems to be absent from NuMarines and I feel like that's a loss.

By that same logic, all the plain armoured Marines, just because it's not part of every model, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can't say "well not all Space Marines have gothic armour BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL EXISTS", when the same argument can be used to support blank armour.

"By that same logic"

I see no logic to what you have said, just attempts to change the subject and make it look like you have some point by insulting everyone until they no longer care to talk to you.

Gothic armor has been part of the brand since the earliest days of 40k. This is not an argument, this is a fact.

Here are early examples many people recognize as gothic armor. I can pull hundreds more from various editions and tie them to specific models.

Spoiler:

No one is arguing this is the only style of armor. You are making that up.

Everything else you said is garbage. Stop wasting everyone's time.

I can do that too.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I also added a photo of how complex and multi-pose space marines were. For everyone saying that monopose -ETB models are a new thing.

You've attached a picture of the assembly instructions for what, if I remember right, was the 2nd edition starter kit? From like 20+ years ago. VERY damning evidence that modern kits were non-poseable

It's not as if the primaris kit is more poseable than the classic marine kit. Honestly, it's probably more poseable. https://imgur.com/a/mMeWR

For every 5 primaris intercessors, it looks like you've got 6 two-hand carry boltguns, 5 one-hand carry boltguns, several arms holding pistols, pointing, reloading, etc., and the 10-man box has two of the same sprue.

To me, it's the fact that Primaris have gone from an imperial style special and heavy weapons and sergeant weapons option scheme to more of a necron-style "all the guys have the same gun" upgrade scheme, and that they all wear the same armor mark, have the same helmets, etc.

Space Marines have always had some models and ranges that looked basic and clean, some that looked modern and tactical, and some that looked gothic and grimdark.

The argument here is that OUT OF THE ACTUAL KITS GW HAS RELEASED FOR PRIMARIS, not kitbashes with older classic marine kits, not with custom-made greenstuff bits or 3rd party 3d printed stuff, you will have a very difficult time making gothic, barbaric or grimdark looking primaris space marines. They have released a couple of models that fit that look, I think the primaris chaplain was shown earlier and there are the two dudes that come with Calgar,

People who got into marines for that aesthetic are going to be annoyed at the removal of chainswords, storm shields, lightning claws, robes and tabards, power mauls, etc from the marine range.

I mean, that's how armies normally work. Right?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

I find the primaris space marine kits to be a step backwards from a modeling perspective from the 5th ed. era analogous kits they're replacing. I'd rather build and paint a Tactical Squad than an Intercessor squad, an Assault Squad than an Inceptor Squad, or a Devastator Squad than a Hellblaster Squad. I'd rather my marines be varied than uniform, and honestly I'd rather they not be twice the height of the skitarii/inquisitors/guardsmen I'm going to be fielding alongside them. The fact that I could buy a bland primaris kit and a varied DW vets kit and make more interesting looking DW intercessors isn't super appealing to me - if Primaris obsolete standard marines I'll just use my standard marines as counts-as primaris. I've had counts-as armies for multiple editions anyway, when I played GSC and Harlequins in 5th and 6th, so that's not new territory for me anyway.

No I am saying if you want to have your Marines look like they are loaded down with relics and purity seals you can do that but its not how most Marines are actually depicted or ever were.

So what female Imperial Guard can I buy now? I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes.

Saying you don't like Primaris is fine, I hate Centurions.

Lets be polite here: Say they go against the design paradim for marines is misleading at the very best as has been proved numerous times trhougout this discussion.

Should we be comparing the Primaris kits to the Deathwatch or to the MkIII/IV kits from the Horus Heresy games?

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

I find the primaris space marine kits to be a step backwards from a modeling perspective from the 5th ed. era analogous kits they're replacing. I'd rather build and paint a Tactical Squad than an Intercessor squad, an Assault Squad than an Inceptor Squad, or a Devastator Squad than a Hellblaster Squad. I'd rather my marines be varied than uniform, and honestly I'd rather they not be twice the height of the skitarii/inquisitors/guardsmen I'm going to be fielding alongside them. The fact that I could buy a bland primaris kit and a varied DW vets kit and make more interesting looking DW intercessors isn't super appealing to me - if Primaris obsolete standard marines I'll just use my standard marines as counts-as primaris. I've had counts-as armies for multiple editions anyway, when I played GSC and Harlequins in 5th and 6th, so that's not new territory for me anyway.

No I am saying if you want to have your Marines look like they are loaded down with relics and purity seals you can do that but its not how most Marines are actually depicted or ever were.

So what female Imperial Guard can I buy now? I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes.

Saying you don't like Primaris is fine, I hate Centurions.

Lets be polite here: Say they go against the design paradim for marines is misleading at the very best as has been proved numerous times trhougout this discussion.

If you want me to concede a point for an argument I never made, then sure - there is design precedent SOMEWHERE in the collossal pre-existing model range for space marines for almost everything they've done with primaris. All the head visors, goggles, camo-gear, tacticool scopes and whatnot that they used for what is now over 1/2 of the full primaris range had precedent in, say, the Scout Sniper kit.

My overall point has never been that. My overall point has been that the ornamented design elements from kits like Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard kits or the gothic technobarbarian elements from kits like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assault Terminators appear to be totally absent in the primaris range, and your counterpoint to that appears from my perspective to be "Well you can just buy those older kits and kitbash primaris with those, so it's all fine and you're not missing anything."

That doesn't put those elements in to the Primaris range, that just points out that customization through kitbashing is possible. Just because you can buy a box of Eschers or GSC bikers or sisters of battle and put their heads on guardsmen does not mean female guardsmen exist in the current guard range.

"I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes."

I can get a Chaplain but I'm still waiting for any gothic elements in the Primaris boxes.

the_scotsman wrote:Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

There's a very big difference between the sheer numbers of spare scrolls, seals and trinkets from a Space Marine kit and spare female heads. In fact, can you actually name a kit with *spare* female heads? Sisters of Battle, perhaps, but they don't easily fit guardsman bodies. And, unlike just getting Space Marine bits from other Space Marine boxes, Sisters are a totally different faction to Guardsmen.

the_scotsman wrote:You've attached a picture of the assembly instructions for what, if I remember right, was the 2nd edition starter kit? From like 20+ years ago. VERY damning evidence that modern kits were non-poseable

Then what about the snapfit Space Marines that, up until recently, were still available all through 7th? They were literally three pieces, IIRC - the body, the backpack, and the gun. The ones I posted earlier?

Easy building kits has been around long before Primaris, and long after 2nd edition.

To me, it's the fact that Primaris have gone from an imperial style special and heavy weapons and sergeant weapons option scheme to more of a necron-style "all the guys have the same gun" upgrade scheme, and that they all wear the same armor mark, have the same helmets, etc.

They have shoulder pad differences, just like the Tacticals. The basic Tactical Squad kit only has a beaky head or two, alongside the vast amount of Mark VII helms, with no trace of older Marks. And sure, you have some chest variation and legs (only really Marks IV and VI though, nothing older than Mark IV), but that's also a relatively new addition. In the Tactical Squad kits I remember prior to this current one, there wasn't even Mark IV parts, only a majority of VII and a single Mark VI here and there. The vast majority of Tactical Squad bits have been Mark VII, so it's not like squads were this super varied mix. More than Primaris? Yes, but not THAT much.

Also, what about Legion Marines? They had mono-gun loadouts - were they not Space Marines?

Space Marines have always had some models and ranges that looked basic and clean, some that looked modern and tactical, and some that looked gothic and grimdark.

Absolutely, and anyone saying that any of those aesthetics was wrong (looking at everyone who's complained about basic and tacticool "not being Space Marine-y) just isn't correct.

The argument here is that OUT OF THE ACTUAL KITS GW HAS RELEASED FOR PRIMARIS, not kitbashes with older classic marine kits, not with custom-made greenstuff bits or 3rd party 3d printed stuff, you will have a very difficult time making gothic, barbaric or grimdark looking primaris space marines.

Perhaps. But at the same time, in previous kits, Marines have also been very bare. Look at the 2nd ed stuff: and the Tactical I remember from around I started weren't particularly gothic, barbaric or grimdark either. It's almost like GW has never really matched the aesthetic of many of their art styles, and have nearly always settled on a more basic, stripped back look for their core Marines.

If your complaint extends to those models too, to those snapfits and bland looking Tacticals I've mentioned above, then I appreciate the consistency and willingness to complain about the old Marines too. This isn't a Primaris exclusive problem.

They have released a couple of models that fit that look, I think the primaris chaplain was shown earlier and there are the two dudes that come with Calgar,

People who got into marines for that aesthetic are going to be annoyed at the removal of chainswords, storm shields, lightning claws, robes and tabards, power mauls, etc from the marine range.

Primaris have chainswords, which can be bought from upgrade packs. And again, most of those features weren't present on tactical squad kits, or assault squads or similar, for that matter. If you wanted your Tacticals with robes and tabards, you needed to go elsewhere beyond the main box. If you wanted lightning claws, power mauls and storm shields, you needed dedicated kits for it, because, as many people have said, the core Space Marine units have historically been very bland. And while I do recognise that those weapons don't show up on Primaris units (at least, in any regularity), saying that they were readily available on old ones is a misrepresentation.

Mr Morden wrote:Lets be polite here: Say they go against the design paradim for marines is misleading at the very best as has been proved numerous times trhougout this discussion.

Absolutely, 100%.

Maybe my disappointment with the Primaris stems from expecting them to release a box of purely MkVI Beakies, like they released MkIII and MkIV. In part it's probably my fault: businesses typically measure demand in part by what people actually buy, and I sure didn't buy any of FW's MkVI squads.

the_scotsman wrote:My overall point has never been that. My overall point has been that the ornamented design elements from kits like Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard kits or the gothic technobarbarian elements from kits like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assault Terminators appear to be totally absent in the primaris range, and your counterpoint to that appears from my perspective to be "Well you can just buy those older kits and kitbash primaris with those, so it's all fine and you're not missing anything."

So, you're complaining that features from explicitly elite, non-standard, and notably ornamented units aren't present on the core units of the Primaris?

Why WOULD Primaris look as detailed as those elite, first company units? Tacticals don't. Assault Marines don't. Devastators don't. Now, if GW released a proper "Veteran Intercessors" box or "Elitenassors" or whatever veteran Primaris unit, and didn't make them ornate, I'd see your point. But Intercessors are basic troops! Why are you comparing them to the standard of Veterans?

Do you also complain about the Tacticals not looking like the ornamented designs of the Sternguard?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Maybe my disappointment with the Primaris stems from expecting them to release a box of purely MkVI Beakies, like they released MkIII and MkIV.

I'd love to see all the 30k squads get plastic releases (well, maybe except Mark V, which I don't really count as a proper armour variant). Mark II and VI deserve it.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:My overall point has never been that. My overall point has been that the ornamented design elements from kits like Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard kits or the gothic technobarbarian elements from kits like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assault Terminators appear to be totally absent in the primaris range, and your counterpoint to that appears from my perspective to be "Well you can just buy those older kits and kitbash primaris with those, so it's all fine and you're not missing anything."

So, you're complaining that features from explicitly elite, non-standard, and notably ornamented units aren't present on the core units of the Primaris?

Why WOULD Primaris look as detailed as those elite, first company units? Tacticals don't. Assault Marines don't. Devastators don't. Now, if GW released a proper "Veteran Intercessors" box or "Elitenassors" or whatever veteran Primaris unit, and didn't make them ornate, I'd see your point. But Intercessors are basic troops! Why are you comparing them to the standard of Veterans?

Do you also complain about the Tacticals not looking like the ornamented designs of the Sternguard?

I mean, primarily I complain that they don't fit the aesthetics or gameplay of my Deathwatch, which is the marine army that I play. They're pretty heavily individualized, include some sternguard bits because they share wargear options with that kit, and they come with Storm Shields in the vets box.

This is the same baffling argument that came up when people complained that, for example, the incursors that came in the new space wolf box set didn't match at all with the aesthetics of the Space Wolf army people had built out of the 5th/7th ed era space wolf kits while Ragnar did. And people responded to that with either "Well I don't like the aesthetics of that space wolf army you built out of the existing space wolf kits" or "yes they do, they're in the space wolf codex therefore they are space wolfs and they MUST match aesthetically!"

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

I find the primaris space marine kits to be a step backwards from a modeling perspective from the 5th ed. era analogous kits they're replacing. I'd rather build and paint a Tactical Squad than an Intercessor squad, an Assault Squad than an Inceptor Squad, or a Devastator Squad than a Hellblaster Squad. I'd rather my marines be varied than uniform, and honestly I'd rather they not be twice the height of the skitarii/inquisitors/guardsmen I'm going to be fielding alongside them. The fact that I could buy a bland primaris kit and a varied DW vets kit and make more interesting looking DW intercessors isn't super appealing to me - if Primaris obsolete standard marines I'll just use my standard marines as counts-as primaris. I've had counts-as armies for multiple editions anyway, when I played GSC and Harlequins in 5th and 6th, so that's not new territory for me anyway.

No I am saying if you want to have your Marines look like they are loaded down with relics and purity seals you can do that but its not how most Marines are actually depicted or ever were.

So what female Imperial Guard can I buy now? I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes.

Saying you don't like Primaris is fine, I hate Centurions.

Lets be polite here: Say they go against the design paradim for marines is misleading at the very best as has been proved numerous times trhougout this discussion.

If you want me to concede a point for an argument I never made, then sure - there is design precedent SOMEWHERE in the collossal pre-existing model range for space marines for almost everything they've done with primaris. All the head visors, goggles, camo-gear, tacticool scopes and whatnot that they used for what is now over 1/2 of the full primaris range had precedent in, say, the Scout Sniper kit.

My overall point has never been that. My overall point has been that the ornamented design elements from kits like Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard kits or the gothic technobarbarian elements from kits like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assault Terminators appear to be totally absent in the primaris range, and your counterpoint to that appears from my perspective to be "Well you can just buy those older kits and kitbash primaris with those, so it's all fine and you're not missing anything."

That doesn't put those elements in to the Primaris range, that just points out that customization through kitbashing is possible. Just because you can buy a box of Eschers or GSC bikers or sisters of battle and put their heads on guardsmen does not mean female guardsmen exist in the current guard range.

"I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes."

I can get a Chaplain but I'm still waiting for any gothic elements in the Primaris boxes.

So moving the goalposts we are now only comparing Primaris to Sterngaurd or speclaist marine units from specific Chapters?

No lets compare like with like - Tac Marines/Devestator/Assault and Primaris (as they do in the codex) - so whats the difference in the basic models? How many Tac marines are super gothic without those same upgrades, bits or similar?

Yeah thats right.

There are no female guard bodies, arms or anything else.
There is a vast blaoted range of marines going back decades and anyone who actually collects marines has a vast bits box.

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I feel it's worth noting GW by their own admission purposefully made Primaris fairly clean so we could add stuff on or not to taste. for every person who liked the highly skulled up purity seal covered marines we occasionally saw, there where people who hated it. it's a lot easier to give us the empty armor and let us decoate as we wish.

More profitable too as it means GW can hypotheticly if they see demand put out chapter upgrade packs, purity seal packs "SKULL ARMOR" upgrade packs etc.

Yeah, so if I want to make a primaris marine that looks like a classic marine all I have to do is

step 1 - buy a classic marine kit

step 2 - buy a primaris kit

it's really that easy! DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I would have thought most people have so many bits and pieces in their bits boxes that making a Skulls, relics and scrolls marine would not be hard.

And those were ALways the exception rather than the rule anway .

Marines are and always have been a starter army. By your logic, female imperial guard armies are not needed because people should have plenty of female heads they can use from their bits box.

I find the primaris space marine kits to be a step backwards from a modeling perspective from the 5th ed. era analogous kits they're replacing. I'd rather build and paint a Tactical Squad than an Intercessor squad, an Assault Squad than an Inceptor Squad, or a Devastator Squad than a Hellblaster Squad. I'd rather my marines be varied than uniform, and honestly I'd rather they not be twice the height of the skitarii/inquisitors/guardsmen I'm going to be fielding alongside them. The fact that I could buy a bland primaris kit and a varied DW vets kit and make more interesting looking DW intercessors isn't super appealing to me - if Primaris obsolete standard marines I'll just use my standard marines as counts-as primaris. I've had counts-as armies for multiple editions anyway, when I played GSC and Harlequins in 5th and 6th, so that's not new territory for me anyway.

No I am saying if you want to have your Marines look like they are loaded down with relics and purity seals you can do that but its not how most Marines are actually depicted or ever were.

So what female Imperial Guard can I buy now? I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes.

Saying you don't like Primaris is fine, I hate Centurions.

Lets be polite here: Say they go against the design paradim for marines is misleading at the very best as has been proved numerous times trhougout this discussion.

If you want me to concede a point for an argument I never made, then sure - there is design precedent SOMEWHERE in the collossal pre-existing model range for space marines for almost everything they've done with primaris. All the head visors, goggles, camo-gear, tacticool scopes and whatnot that they used for what is now over 1/2 of the full primaris range had precedent in, say, the Scout Sniper kit.

My overall point has never been that. My overall point has been that the ornamented design elements from kits like Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard kits or the gothic technobarbarian elements from kits like Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Assault Terminators appear to be totally absent in the primaris range, and your counterpoint to that appears from my perspective to be "Well you can just buy those older kits and kitbash primaris with those, so it's all fine and you're not missing anything."

That doesn't put those elements in to the Primaris range, that just points out that customization through kitbashing is possible. Just because you can buy a box of Eschers or GSC bikers or sisters of battle and put their heads on guardsmen does not mean female guardsmen exist in the current guard range.

"I can get a Comissar but still waiting for any female elements in the Guard boxes."

I can get a Chaplain but I'm still waiting for any gothic elements in the Primaris boxes.

So moving the goalposts we are now only comparing Primaris to Sterngaurd or speclaist marine units from specific Chapters?

No lets compare like with like - Tac Marines/Devestator/Assault and Primaris (as they do in the codex) - so whats the difference in the basic models? How many Tac marines are super gothic without those same upgrades, bits or similar?

Yeah thats right.

There are no female guard bodies, arms or anything else.
There is a vast blaoted range of marines going back decades and anyone who actually collects marines has a vast bits box.

Step 1: Assign other person an argument they did not make

Step 2: Accuse other person of "moving the goalposts" from the argument you've assigned to them.

Step 3: ????

Step 4: Profit/List Off Other List of Logical Fallacies(tm)

I didn't have a vast bits box of space marines when I started collecting space marines...because I hadn't...collected space marines before that. You'd think that would be kind of obvious? I had the spare bits from the space wolves box we used to make my wife's disney princess marines, the leftover bits from my Thousand Sons, and anything I could make marine-compatible from my Necromunda or Guard models. That and the Vets kit and Sternguard kit were what I made my deathwatch out of.

Also, are you, person who has the big "I AM A MARINE PLAYER" thing in their signature, really actually going to accuse me of not "actually collecting space marines"? Am I not a True Fan? And for that matter, is nobody that starts the hobby now, with zero bits box? That's some adorable stuff right there.

Besides that, you have violated the quid pro quo, ipso facto, reductio ad delusiam, and astra militarum fallacies, so I win automatically.

fething balls I hate arguing with internet people.

the_scotsman wrote:I mean, primarily I complain that they don't fit the aesthetics or gameplay of my Deathwatch, which is the marine army that I play. They're pretty heavily individualized, include some sternguard bits because they share wargear options with that kit, and they come with Storm Shields in the vets box.

So, you needed to take bits from another kit to make them work (Sternguard).
Secondly, looking at the sprue from my own DW box of Veterans, they're not exactly that ornate either. Not even any Mark VI helmets in there! No studded shoulder pads, no loincloths, no different armour marks. In fact, their armour looks remarkably clean, and, actually looking at all the pouches and wrist gubbinz, almost look quite tacticool!

The Sternguard and Deathwatch don't really have the same design philosophy, and realistically, the Deathwatch Veterans kit looks closer to the Intercessors one! The only real distinction (aside from the armour being different marks) is that the DW kit is packed full of special weapons, and the Intercessor kit is full of bolt rifles.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
That and the Vets kit and Sternguard kit were what I made my deathwatch out of.

So, why are you complaining that Primaris players would need to buy other kits to get the desired aesthetic when you've had to do the same with classic Marines?

Step 1: Assign other person an argument they did not make

Step 2: Accuse other person of "moving the goalposts" from the argument you've assigned to them.

Step 3: ????

Step 4: Profit/List Off Other List of Logical Fallacies(tm)

I didn't have a vast bits box of space marines when I started collecting space marines...because I hadn't...collected space marines before that. You'd think that would be kind of obvious? I had the spare bits from the space wolves box we used to make my wife's disney princess marines, the leftover bits from my Thousand Sons, and anything I could make marine-compatible from my Necromunda or Guard models. That and the Vets kit and Sternguard kit were what I made my deathwatch out of.

Also, are you, person who has the big "I AM A MARINE PLAYER" thing in their signature, really actually going to accuse me of not "actually collecting space marines"? Am I not a True Fan? And for that matter, is nobody that starts the hobby now, with zero bits box? That's some adorable stuff right there.

Besides that, you have violated the quid pro quo, ipso facto, reductio ad delusiam, and astra militarum fallacies, so I win automatically.

fething balls I hate arguing with internet people.

Yes I play Marines and as you shoud know as I have said it enough times I put that so fething idiots on the internet do not whine that I hate Marines - so it obvious I have hundreds of them and that tiresome argument can not be trotted out - even though it is.

So how long have you been collection Marines then? Have you got a bits box or not? Its not a hard question.

So what did you do with your basic Tac and other marines - just stare at them until they magically grew gothicness and scrolls and skulls - how did you cope then? NO you as you said took them from other stuff and added it.

But apparently thats too hard or someting with Primaris..... Sheesh kids today.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:I mean, primarily I complain that they don't fit the aesthetics or gameplay of my Deathwatch, which is the marine army that I play. They're pretty heavily individualized, include some sternguard bits because they share wargear options with that kit, and they come with Storm Shields in the vets box.

So, you needed to take bits from another kit to make them work (Sternguard).
Secondly, looking at the sprue from my own DW box of Veterans, they're not exactly that ornate either. Not even any Mark VI helmets in there! No studded shoulder pads, no loincloths, no different armour marks. In fact, their armour looks remarkably clean, and, actually looking at all the pouches and wrist gubbinz, almost look quite tacticool!

The Sternguard and Deathwatch don't really have the same design philosophy, and realistically, the Deathwatch Veterans kit looks closer to the Intercessors one! The only real distinction (aside from the armour being different marks) is that the DW kit is packed full of special weapons, and the Intercessor kit is full of bolt rifles.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
That and the Vets kit and Sternguard kit were what I made my deathwatch out of.

So, why are you complaining that Primaris players would need to buy other kits to get the desired aesthetic when you've had to do the same with classic Marines?

Because the primary reason I added the sternguard kit was actually to get storm bolters and storm shields, lol. That's a separate problem with GW not being terribly good at balancing their game.

Look dawg, I know you and morden are after a sweet internet dunk "Checkmate Atheists" "Illogal SJW DESTOYED WITH FACTS AND REASON" moment, but this is a subjective opinion and I have never presented it as anything but a subjective opinion.

If I got interested in space marines as a mobile lightning strike type force with units equipped with special weapons, I can't do that with primaris (especially if I liked Drop Pods, lol). Primaris marines are pretty much a static gunline army.

If I got interested in space marines for a gothic aesthetic, and I dislike a COD Modern Warfare tactical aesthetic, I'll need to custom-build my primaris with third party bits or bits from another kit.

If I got interested in space marines because I like making each model a unique individual, I can't do that with Primaris marines.

If I got interested in space marines as a mixed melee/shooting force with some dedicated shooting and some dedicated melee units, I can't do that with primaris marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Step 1: Assign other person an argument they did not make

Step 2: Accuse other person of "moving the goalposts" from the argument you've assigned to them.

Step 3: ????

Step 4: Profit/List Off Other List of Logical Fallacies(tm)

I didn't have a vast bits box of space marines when I started collecting space marines...because I hadn't...collected space marines before that. You'd think that would be kind of obvious? I had the spare bits from the space wolves box we used to make my wife's disney princess marines, the leftover bits from my Thousand Sons, and anything I could make marine-compatible from my Necromunda or Guard models. That and the Vets kit and Sternguard kit were what I made my deathwatch out of.

Also, are you, person who has the big "I AM A MARINE PLAYER" thing in their signature, really actually going to accuse me of not "actually collecting space marines"? Am I not a True Fan? And for that matter, is nobody that starts the hobby now, with zero bits box? That's some adorable stuff right there.

Besides that, you have violated the quid pro quo, ipso facto, reductio ad delusiam, and astra militarum fallacies, so I win automatically.

fething balls I hate arguing with internet people.

Yes I play Marines and as you shoud know as I have said it enough times I put that so fething idiots on the internet do not whine that I hate Marines - so it obvious I have hundreds of them and that tiresome argument can not be trotted out - even though it is.

So how long have you been collection Marines then? Have you got a bits box or not? Its not a hard question.

So what did you do with your basic Tac and other marines - just stare at them until they magically grew gothicness and scrolls and skulls - how did you cope then? NO you as you said took them from other stuff and added it.

But apparently thats too hard or someting with Primaris..... Sheesh kids today.

I didn't build any basic tac marines. At all. I have a deathwatch army. My models came out of the box looking like this https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/99120109001_DeathwatchKillTeam04_480x480.jpg https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSk5xfuqf3LoDbH_y6Rhm_TOOX9sz1X-auNX_yExVyqeEnUs_Kh&usqp=CAU

It was real cool, they came out late 7th edition and are one of the newest plastic armies that I own, and a couple years later a bunch of coolkids are calling them "Old marines" and wondering when I'm going to get around to getting them "up to date".

Yeah Deathwatch are the new/OG Tacticool. One of the reasons I didn't collect them was all the pouches, cool guy individual weapons, and the weird random letter shoulder pad.

I think Deathwatch will get a conversion kit to Primaris just like the Space Wolves. Just a matter of time.