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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [32 PL, 599pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Masterful Shots, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 132pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 62pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 6. Impair Senses, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 175pts]
. 20x Guardian Defender: 20x Plasma Grenades, 20x Shuriken Catapult
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [42 PL, 600pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Masterful Shots, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [51 PL, 801pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Masterful Shots, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [9 PL, 120pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [9 PL, 120pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 152pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 152pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 152pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [125 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So with this list I've tried to make it a tough nut to crack, by Eldar standards at least!
The guardians and rangers start in reserve. The avengers in the falcons.
My screen/anti screen is the Vypers who are T5 with a 2+ from more than 12" away so should be very resistant to opposing screen firepower, has 54 S6 shots ignoring cover so should be pretty good at clearing screens and can do some work against heavier targets, especially with doom.
The prisms link fire and the falcons can roam if needed.
Everything that starts on the field is either T5 or T7 and has a 2+ save from further than 12" away.

Your guardians could... have a 2nd weapon platform. Otherwise, since you are trying to make Vypers viable, I think you are doing good.

I miss playing this game.

Can you switch the Falcons to Death Spinners? Just a gun turret change?

I think that would make this a harder nut to crack, with parking them in non-LOS.

In general, the warlock onna bike is a Perils away from being an enemy's point. I used one for quite a bit and often found him dead in most games. If you can shave any points, make him another Farseer Skyrunner. Or a footer with Faolchu's Wing. I looked twice and didn't see a relic, so that could be your relic.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Your guardians could... have a 2nd weapon platform. Otherwise, since you are trying to make Vypers viable, I think you are doing good.

I miss playing this game.

Thanks, I think vypers could be a bit under costed so I want to try to use them for screening. I have also thought about using them with the twin catapults, 141 pts for 18 T5 wounds with a 20 inch move is insanely cheap but I wanted to keep the 2+ for this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Can you switch the Falcons to Death Spinners? Just a gun turret change?

I think that would make this a harder nut to crack, with parking them in non-LOS.

In general, the warlock onna bike is a Perils away from being an enemy's point. I used one for quite a bit and often found him dead in most games. If you can shave any points, make him another Farseer Skyrunner. Or a footer with Faolchu's Wing. I looked twice and didn't see a relic, so that could be your relic.

Death spinners are the same kit as the fire prism so not an option at the moment, plus I'm hoping to hide the prisms out of sight so it might get a bit crowded.
I know what you mean about the warlocks, I never use the foot one anymore, 66% chance of dying on a perils? No thanks!
Dropping one of the autarch's for a duplicate warlock could be a good idea, redundancy plus points for a second platform for the guardians, spirit stones for the falcons and twin catapults for the avenger exarchs is pretty nice...

Well, your army is fully mobile with Guardians deep-striking in round 2 - up to the Rangers.
My observation is that if you have static units in an otherwise mobile force, the enemy will always move towards your static units no matter what.
Therefore, I'd dropped such units as it can hamper your tactics.

Nobody uses War Walkers. However, they're the same price as Vypers with the same loadout. They're way slower though, but have a pseudo DS ability. They're only 4+, but one higher toughness, and come with a 5++ too. I think all in all they come in pretty equal for the uses you're outlining. It does make your opponent respect that they can DS though, during his deployment.

The rangers would be in deepstrike too in most scenarios. I envision them either to plug holes in the screen or to drop onto objectives depending on what I need.
I'm not 100% convinced on them if I'm honest, swooping hawks may well be a better bet but rangers are troops so there is that advantage for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Senserazer wrote:
Nobody uses War Walkers. However, they're the same price as Vypers with the same loadout. They're way slower though, but have a pseudo DS ability. They're only 4+, but one higher toughness, and come with a 5++ too. I think all in all they come in pretty equal for the uses you're outlining. It does make your opponent respect that they can DS though, during his deployment.

I do like walkers but in this instance, as I want them as my main screening units, the ability to fly away when tagged is a big advantage.
I also really want to have everything have a 2+, at least initially. A full squad of intercessors rapid firing with the standard rifles on turn one with captain and lieutenant re rolls do only two wounds to vypers in cover. A unit of rapid firing guardsmen do .75 wounds. I know the pain of firing scatter lasers at rubrics, 2+ saves are a nightmare for 0 ap weapons. If my opponent is using heavier weapons to remove the vypers that's shots not going into my tanks.

 kingheff wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Your guardians could... have a 2nd weapon platform. Otherwise, since you are trying to make Vypers viable, I think you are doing good.

I miss playing this game.

Thanks, I think vypers could be a bit under costed so I want to try to use them for screening. I have also thought about using them with the twin catapults, 141 pts for 18 T5 wounds with a 20 inch move is insanely cheap but I wanted to keep the 2+ for this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Can you switch the Falcons to Death Spinners? Just a gun turret change?

I think that would make this a harder nut to crack, with parking them in non-LOS.

In general, the warlock onna bike is a Perils away from being an enemy's point. I used one for quite a bit and often found him dead in most games. If you can shave any points, make him another Farseer Skyrunner. Or a footer with Faolchu's Wing. I looked twice and didn't see a relic, so that could be your relic.

Death spinners are the same kit as the fire prism so not an option at the moment, plus I'm hoping to hide the prisms out of sight so it might get a bit crowded.
I know what you mean about the warlocks, I never use the foot one anymore, 66% chance of dying on a perils? No thanks!
Dropping one of the autarch's for a duplicate warlock could be a good idea, redundancy plus points for a second platform for the guardians, spirit stones for the falcons and twin catapults for the avenger exarchs is pretty nice...

Of note, if you plan to hide Fire Prisms out of LOS, is it safe to assume your opponent has a similar capability? Your army has no way to target units out of LOS, which is what I would think is its biggest weakness. Nightspinners are aggressively pointed and quite a good all around shooting platform. I like both Fire Prisms and Falcons, but recommend also including Nightspinner(s). You can order Nightspinner bits online as an alternative to purchasing an entire new kit.

Looks like the spinner bits are out of stock in the uk atm.
I'll probably just end up buying three at some point soon, I've got three serpents, falcons and prisms already, it'd be rude to not complete the set!
I've got a several shadow weavers and d cannons but they don't do a lot for me because of D1 and 24" range repsectively.
I'd hope the speed of the vypers and falcons can overcome the lack of OOLOS shooting, or perhaps the guardian bomb. Not perfect solutions but when life gives you lemons...

 kingheff wrote:
Looks like the spinner bits are out of stock in the uk atm.
I'll probably just end up buying three at some point soon, I've got three serpents, falcons and prisms already, it'd be rude to not complete the set!
I've got a several shadow weavers and d cannons but they don't do a lot for me because of D1 and 24" range repsectively.
I'd hope the speed of the vypers and falcons can overcome the lack of OOLOS shooting, or perhaps the guardian bomb. Not perfect solutions but when life gives you lemons...

Why not vibro cannons?
Seems like the best choice among the support batteries?

I've spammed 9 vibros before, they're awesome but I was referring to the lack of indirect fire in the list and the fact that I don't have any night spinners.

I really like the idea and think it has a lot of potential. The only things I would change would be:

- Add another squad of dire avengers and bring two battalions to get 3 more CP. Battle fortune could be handy since they'll be on foot.

-One Autarch should be enough for all of your re-roll needs. I would add another warlock on foot and bring protect/jinx to buff your guardians or debuff a key enemy unit.

-Drop one squad of 3 vypers and bring a night spinner. If you have extra points you could upgrade all your tanks with spirit stones and shuriken cannons on the fire prisms to get the most out of your tanks

Funny you should mention double battalion... this is a new version of the army I think might be better, I do miss the guardian blob but I've still got over 100 shuriken shots.
72 T7 wounds with a 2+ and 54 T5 wounds with a 2+ should be a pretty daunting amount of firepower for anyone to chew through!
Still no indirect fire but I just don't have many good options in my collection unfortunately.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [43 PL, 656pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Masterful Shots, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Spiritseer [3 PL, 55pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [3 PL, 58pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [9 PL, 120pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [9 PL, 120pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [9 PL, 120pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [85 PL, 1,343pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Masterful Shots, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Ranger: 5x Ranger Long Rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Fire Prism [9 PL, 142pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 142pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 142pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [128 PL, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Aside from collection limitations (Nightspinner), I like the list overall, but admit I am unfamiliar with the utility of 9 Vypers, which you appear to want to stay in the list.

One thing I faced repeatedly was the amount of armies/units which had ignore cover. Imperial Fists and Centurions come to mind immediately. Excluding that, I like Masters of Concealment, but dropped it. If you don't encounter that issue, then it will work very well with your list.

The vypers are there as the screen/anti screen mostly, although with everything else basically being flying tanks screening isn't a massive problem. Having my anti screen units being only susceptible to heavy firepower should give me a big advantage in the screen Vs screen battle. Their heavy firepower likely to target the actual tanks rather than the vypers. They don't have the damage output of guardians for sure but they are a hell of a lot tankier!
Imperial fists would be a pretty nasty foe for sure, but by deploying defensively I'd hope to mitigate as much of their first turn shooting as possible and with the speed and fly keyword of everything in the list it wouldn't be a big problem to move into range afterwards.

Thank you for further explanation. I went through the codex and current point values again you helped me view Yvpers in a different light. They are bikes with a large flight stand base and with 9, I better understand the role you have for them. They can leave combat, move 20" when in a unit of 3. In fact, I just purchased 9 from EBay (lots of good deals since the last boxset release; same way I bought Falsons).

Once you can get games in with this army, please let us know!

There's also a good case for using hail of doom with twin catapults and shuriken cannon vypers,
423 pts for 54 T5 wounds with a 3+ outputting 36 S4 -1 ap shots and 27 S6 -1 ap shots with the chance to boost to a -3 ap.
Or Saim han vypers with catapults and star cannons, 450 pts for 36 catapult and 18 star cannon shots all hitting on 3's really isn't bad.
As long as you've got things like flyers and tanks to make more tempting targets Vypers aren't likely to be targetted by stuff heavier than anti infantry weaponry and it's pretty damn good at shrugging that off.

Well, the 2nd list is a bit more straightforward.
Nevertheless, I'm still not convinced about the use of Vypers.

18 Wounds, T5 and a 3+ save and having the Biker keyword is very interesting when looking at screening capability. If necessary, you could cast Fortune on one unit, Protect on another, and Conceal on the third making each unit a bit more difficult to chew through. They can benefit from Lightning Fast Reflexes for additional durability. A unit of three with Starcannon and Twin Catapults cost 150 points, which for myself, appears very points efficient. Determining most beneficial Craftworld traits is a bit of a puzzle for me as I'd really need to play several games with them for better understanding.

I agree entirely with creating hard shooting choices for an opponent. I think the Vyper can create some dilemmas for target priority. I like running 3 Nightspinners and 3 Falcons as a starting point. 9 Vypers is in a unique position as opposed to units such a Guardian Defenders as others have pointed out. This is one of those list builds I find very interesting and unique for current Eldar builds.

 wuestenfux wrote:
I'm still not convinced about the use of Vypers.

That's fine, I don't think they're suddenly the best thing in the codex!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarigar wrote:
18 Wounds, T5 and a 3+ save and having the Biker keyword is very interesting when looking at screening capability. If necessary, you could cast Fortune on one unit, Protect on another, and Conceal on the third making each unit a bit more difficult to chew through. They can benefit from Lightning Fast Reflexes for additional durability. A unit of three with Starcannon and Twin Catapults cost 150 points, which for myself, appears very points efficient. Determining most beneficial Craftworld traits is a bit of a puzzle for me as I'd really need to play several games with them for better understanding.

I agree entirely with creating hard shooting choices for an opponent. I think the Vyper can create some dilemmas for target priority. I like running 3 Nightspinners and 3 Falcons as a starting point. 9 Vypers is in a unique position as opposed to units such a Guardian Defenders as others have pointed out. This is one of those list builds I find very interesting and unique for current Eldar builds.

At less points per wound than guardian defenders, 7.88 with catapults and shuriken cannon, or even 7.33 with catapults and scatter laser, they're definitely worth a look. Comparing their value to their movement, toughness and save they are really excellent value per point.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2065318590

Been playing around with the list on tabletop simulator, looks like it has really good board zoning/screening potential.

Thanks for sharing. I've been working out a list with the 9 Vypers based around my own playstyle, local meta, and model availability.

 Sarigar wrote:
Thanks for sharing. I've been working out a list with the 9 Vypers based around my own playstyle, local meta, and model availability.

Nice, feel free to post your list.

Sorry for the threadromancy but it didn't seem worth making a new topic.
So my list did ok but in the last game I ran into a sister horde that absolutely smashed me! Between repentia and deepstriking I was just overwhelmed, it was very nasty. I have also faced some nasty deepstriking scions so I've had a rejigging of the list and added in deepstriking of my own with the two windrider units.
I'm not 100% sold on the windrider host but the warlord trait can be useful for shielding the vypers and the additional -1ap strat could be useful if needed.
The expert crafters detachment speaks for itself really, cheap and effective firepower.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [28 PL, 329pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Hail of Doom, Masterful Shots

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 62pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 54pts]
. 9x Storm Guardian - Chainsword: 9x Chainsword, 9x Plasma Grenades, 9x Shuriken Pistol

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 54pts]
. 9x Storm Guardian - Chainsword: 9x Chainsword, 9x Plasma Grenades, 9x Shuriken Pistol

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 54pts]
. 9x Storm Guardian - Chainsword: 9x Chainsword, 9x Plasma Grenades, 9x Shuriken Pistol

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [57 PL, 715pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masters of Concealment

+ HQ +

Spiritseer [3 PL, 55pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol
. Faolchu's Wing

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [9 PL, 115pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [9 PL, 115pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [9 PL, 115pts]: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Support Weapons [9 PL, 105pts]
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

Support Weapons [9 PL, 105pts]
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

Support Weapons [9 PL, 105pts]
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [67 PL, -2CP, 956pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Hail of Doom, Masterful Shots

+ Stratagems +

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Windrider Host

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, -1CP, 137pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Stratagem: Field Commander, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Wild Rider

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Windriders [12 PL, 162pts]
. 9x Windrider - Twin Shuriken Catapults: 9x Twin Shuriken Catapult

Windriders [12 PL, 162pts]
. 9x Windrider - Twin Shuriken Catapults: 9x Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [152 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This is a pretty drastic change. Not sure what to make of it. I'll be interested on how it plays out for you.

Yeah, I think I needed to make changes, I'll have to see if I've made the right changes.
I miss the double battalion but to make expert crafters and the windrider host work fully I need them to be spearhead and outrider detatchments.
Also I have completely gone off rangers, their damage output is very poor, even worse if they deepstrike and they've gone down pretty easily in my games, at 12ppm I just think they're too expensive. Storm guardians are crap but at least they're cheap! I may swap them for Dire avengers, I'll have to see but I'm thinking that more bodies just means more deepstrike denial. Shame I lost out on CP since this list needs them which the last list didn't really.
I'll miss linked fire on the prisms too but Vibro's are great with Experts crafters and that should help the Falcons too.
I've found the Vypers good for moving quickly into the midfield but without support they can start to run out of gas, the two squads of windriders should help a lot with that. I used the Falcons sometimes but I found that left too much space so I'm hoping to keep the falcons and vibro's just sitting in my deployment zone while the bikes go on the offensive with the stormies waiting to form an Eldar shield for the good stuff in the back.

I might switch the autarch and farseer around. Autarch would benifit more from fire and fade than the farseer. Its got a lot of firepower, you have to deal with the vypers and windriders before getting to the vibros and falcons. Its going to cause lots of fits.

I guess games will end with a few falcons and a few vibro's left on the board.

The farseer needs to be in the windrider host because of a strat that gives all the bikes an additional -1 ap. The fall back and charge is more to try and keep the bikes safe from shooting.
I'm still not 100% sold on the windrider host but I think it's worth a look.

ah.. I missed that. Well looks good.

Rangers are in a strange spot. When I use them, it is not to primarily snipe at character models: it is to deep strike and hide in empty sections of the board to score points. They are a bit expensive points wise, but have the ability to deep strike without using a stratagem and an in built to hit modifier. I don't use them much these days. I would like to see more playable rules in the future.