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 Elbows wrote:
I'm not overly concerned with how the restaurants recover - but they will. Maybe not the same restaurants, and hopefully not the same boring mega-corporate run ones...but people will always want food.

Sadly, those are the ones most likely to survive as they have the cash to hire lobbyists to ask for a larger-than-fair share of the government handout pie.

 ValentineGames wrote:
I think people in the US overestimate how many clubs the UK has...
It really isn't much at all.
Without the FLGS we'd have nothing
Although "local" is definitely not a thing.

I'm not sure this is true. I've travelled a lot in the UK across the last twenty years, and everywhere I've lived has had gaming clubs,often multiple gaming clubs. Norwich, where I last lived had 6 miniature gaming clubs, 2 GW focused, others more histroical or alternative company orientated and one FLG you could play in... and the all those clubs predated the FLG and will still be going once the FLG shuts down. Unless by FLG you mean a games workshop, they are ubiquitous.

ccs wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

ccs wrote:

The strongest & smartest make it, and all those with poor-to-no plans/resources become a memory.

Yes, it is business as usual and FLGS are not going to make it. Even the well run ones will get killed and possibly not come back.

Then, the industry of small retail in general is in free fall.

Sure, go ahead & laugh. Is it going to be a rough(er) future for a bit for any retailer not named Amazon ? Yes. Yes it will.
But there'll still be FLGS (and other small retail). And some of them will be the same ones as were around two months ago.

Sorry, I don;t mean to come across as a jerk. I actually agree with most of what you said and i think we have the same general conclusions.

However, in today's day and age "Smarter and Stronger" have very little to do with it. Unless there are specific definitions for what smarter and stronger means. In my experience it is the ability to sustain losses, the ability to leverage other people's money, and your inbuilt efficiencies that make the difference.

Small-Businesses subsidize larger National businesses. I once accidentally got the bill from a distributor for a National retailer that was in the same field as me. They got 20% off the top instantly due to economies of scale. So therefore, all us "Little" guys were subsidizing the national players. I am pretty sure nothing has changed in the Distribution world to alter that. My local Chamber of Commerce did nothing to help me, but bent over backwards to help the National members. Then they used my Dues money to push tax breaks and other policies that did not help me or my business. My local government had me subsidize the property tax of the big chain retailers because the big national companies were getting tax breaks for bringing "jobs". Even though I employed more people than the local national chain equivalent because creating jobs actually mattered to me. Meanwhile, all the small business owners around me were too busy trying to cut each other's throats while the bit our of town chains kepts stomping them into the ground. It was really a strange experience being a family business propping up Nationally recognized brands in exchange for getting undercut on price, out marketed in a conventional sense, and fighting for the same customer base.

Therefore, I think the definitions of Stronger and Smarter are really open for discussion.

Some of the hobby stores have been doing ok, actually, with people looking for more stuff to do at home. People have been buying quite a lot of minis and models to build, AFAIK.

Around here the shops are allowed to stay open for retail, as long as there are no large groups of people inside. So I guess depends on how large part of the shop's revenue is made by people just hanging out at the store. If it's a gaming cafe or something, then it's obviously hit harder than someone who just sells gaming products.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I'm not overly concerned with how the restaurants recover - but they will. Maybe not the same restaurants, and hopefully not the same boring mega-corporate run ones...but people will always want food.

Sadly, those are the ones most likely to survive as they have the cash to hire lobbyists to ask for a larger-than-fair share of the government handout pie.

And to rub salt in since if they can afford to hire lobbyists they probably didn't need much of a hand-out in the first place.

Restaurants have been facing an apocalyptic bubble for a while now for a variety of reasons, we're just finally seeing it happen.

That industry will recover too, but we're also going to have to accept that it may be some time before we can get literally anything we can imagine delivered to our door for $15 in half an hour, or have multiple options for every conceivable taste to cycle through around town, and we're going to have to be ok with many botique places not cutting their margins to the bone in order to make *everything* in-house that a subcontracted specialist couldn't do just as well or better.

 prowla wrote:
Some of the hobby stores have been doing ok, actually, with people looking for more stuff to do at home. People have been buying quite a lot of minis and models to build, AFAIK.

Around here the shops are allowed to stay open for retail, as long as there are no large groups of people inside. So I guess depends on how large part of the shop's revenue is made by people just hanging out at the store. If it's a gaming cafe or something, then it's obviously hit harder than someone who just sells gaming products.

Here stores can be open as well(went there on tuesday as a matter of fact).

Sure hope the FLGS survive. If not good bye hobby for me. I don't buy and paint just for sake of painting and no FLGS, no place to play. There's reason why I shifted to buying models directly from FLGS where possible(mail order items I usually order direct from GW as to FLGS it can take months before GW bothers delivering. Though if not in a hurry order from FLGS just to not reward GW for their unfair practice of screwing stores on delivery times on those items)

In the Uk, provided GW has it in stock, if a FLGS orders by Wednesday they will typically get direct items with that week's delivery. So maybe it's a time issue for overseas ?

Anyway I'd agree that "smarter" FLGS stores can survive this.

Closest store to me has just shut completely , indefinitely. Stock still on the shelves. He's on Facebook. If that was me I'm n ebay the day after lockdown ordering packaging then I'm hammering Facebook / eBay selling my stock best I can. But nope, it's all sat there. Not smart.

Another stores is actively pushing the stock they have , doing a raffle and telling people what they have. Another is offering free local delivery. Another UK store is offering to buy smaller stores stock at cost price in bulk because they have the reach to sell it whereas others maybe don't. Mantic Games just carried on with longer despatch times and showed people the measures they had put in place.

The real issue is a month from now when some of the supply chains die, especially GW.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:


Anyway I'd agree that "smarter" FLGS stores can survive this.

Closest store to me has just shut completely , indefinitely. Stock still on the shelves. He's on Facebook. If that was me I'm n ebay the day after lockdown ordering packaging then I'm hammering Facebook / eBay selling my stock best I can. But nope, it's all sat there. Not smart.

It is only smart if you still make money. If you make no money and put in a lot of work..... is it still smart?

Is GW still shipping anything? Had the impression nothing has been going out from the factory and distributors in the US were closed up.

 Easy E wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:


Anyway I'd agree that "smarter" FLGS stores can survive this.

Closest store to me has just shut completely , indefinitely. Stock still on the shelves. He's on Facebook. If that was me I'm n ebay the day after lockdown ordering packaging then I'm hammering Facebook / eBay selling my stock best I can. But nope, it's all sat there. Not smart.

It is only smart if you still make money. If you make no money and put in a lot of work..... is it still smart?

If you've pulled the plug...and considering numerous companies have shut factories, which means scarcity of items, then it's a pretty smart move to shift that stock.

The owner of my FLGS is not happy with GW which makes a very large portion of his turnover.

Here in Australia the stores can be open for sales, but restrictions on gatherings and number of people, so things like role play and magic the gathering groups are out of luck.
Due to time restrictions in store, normal table top games are out as well.
But he is still open.

GW shut down delivery to stores world wide.
The stock is in the warehouse here in Australia and other countries. It is ready to ship.

The owner is desperate for hobby items, paints, sprays, brushes. People are getting through models but they still want specific items.

For the life of me I cannot see why GW cannot work according to the rules of specific countries and resupply stores with stock they have in their warehouse for that country.
Just hold off new releases until a world wide basis for releases can be re-established.
When the stock is gone, it is gone, but when the worldwide distribution gets going again they just start resupplying the warehouses.

Distributors for other games have gone this route and the sales are working. In my local town I was the only person getting Marvel Crisis Protocol. There are now 6 in the last 3 weeks with another few looking to get in all via my FLGS and all players getting it because GW stock not available.

Because the countries of the world all gave varying precautions, GW looked at those and said “we feel the best option is to keep our employees home safe, on paid leave because we can afford to do so, including our warehouse pickers”? They made a choice for safety. Maybe on the side of the extreme, but they’re putting their employees safety first and keeping them paid at the same time. Something I haven’t heard any other big name company do completely. They should be applauded, not spat on for this decision. I say good on them.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Because the countries of the world all gave varying precautions, GW looked at those and said “we feel the best option is to keep our employees home safe, on paid leave because we can afford to do so, including our warehouse pickers”? They made a choice for safety. Maybe on the side of the extreme, but they’re putting their employees safety first and keeping them paid at the same time. Something I haven’t heard any other big name company do completely. They should be applauded, not spat on for this decision. I say good on them.

As I Indicated depends on the country.

Australia, shops are open, builders building, trade men going to houses to work., warehouses operational. I am going to the shops today to buy sports socks and running shorts, as my old ones are worn out, new sports shoes for my son and dropping money in the bank, then straight back home.
My medical practice is as strong as ever, even with the social distancing and the implementation of phone consults.
In mY local health district with 250,000 or so people we have had 42 case, 15 are still active and they are all in isolation. 1 new case in the last 10 days here.

U.K. and as far as I can determine is in complete lockdown.

So the warehouse should be on lockdown in U.K., excellent, and as you indicated should be applauded, but in Australia with almost zero community spread and an almost complete curb stomping of the disease thus far why should there be no resupply of stocked items, when the staff are at work twiddling their thumbs.

 torgoch wrote:

 ValentineGames wrote:
I think people in the US overestimate how many clubs the UK has...
It really isn't much at all.
Without the FLGS we'd have nothing
Although "local" is definitely not a thing.

I'm not sure this is true. I've travelled a lot in the UK across the last twenty years, and everywhere I've lived has had gaming clubs,often multiple gaming clubs. Norwich, where I last lived had 6 miniature gaming clubs, 2 GW focused, others more histroical or alternative company orientated and one FLG you could play in... and the all those clubs predated the FLG and will still be going once the FLG shuts down. Unless by FLG you mean a games workshop, they are ubiquitous.

I've found a few things are true with UK clubs:

1) Quite a few tend to form around a school group or similar aged group. The problem is they often don't focus enough on recruitment. Indeed whilst there might be a lot of clubs I find that many are fairly poor at advertising themselves both in the real world and even online; where you'd think many shoudl be even better considering the geeky standard membership base. Facebook has improved this a lot as people do more likely check it out compared to forums and fan webpages; but even so I've often had the feeling clubs in general could do a LOT more to recruit.

2) In light of point 1 I've found that local stores are almost essential. GW or 3rd party; they act as a constant "hub" of attention and focus. They are a constant in the sea and they also tend to be far more active in getting new people into the hobby and games. Therefore they are often a powerful reinforcement agent for keeping clubs going. Similarly (esp for 3rd party where they don't have abig parent company for support) the clubs often help the local store hang around. I've seen a few times where clubs fail to grow and the store eventually dies or stops selling GW products.
That said a good store will help recruit and funnel gamers toward clubs.


3) A lot of the game stores I've seen are TINY. Partly a reflection of the market, but also the high prices that the highstreet has now to operate on, even a lot of once large GW stores have downsized over the years as they've gradually moved from central to edge of central regions. Tiny stores make for exceptionally limited shelf space so before you even touch on the costs of buying in stock; there's a drastically limited amount of room to display anything. This really hurts because it means that casual purchases can be really harmed. It's hard to get someone new into the game when almost everything you want to sell them is "Oh we can order that for you". Especially today where many will think "eh I can order it online for less" and then promptly forget about it once they leave the store. It also eats into casual buying and selling for existing customers.
MTG - really has this market area secured well - it requires a tiny amount of shelf space and the latest block can even fit on the till desk and tempt people with "Oh want a single pack" etc... Wargames are never going to compete that well for space; however tiny stores don't do either side any favours.


Personally I think that at present the only thing that is doing really well on the busy modern highstreets are food outlets. Big or small towns the places selling food are often looking busy and more affluent. Meanwhile a lot of hobby, craft and similar stores are often appearing to struggle; those that don't tend to be those where the owner already owns the property outright and bought it decades ago (ergo no long standing mortgage etc... its fully their property). I think many gaming outlets, if they want to survive, are going to end up pairing with chain or local food outlets; or taking the work on themselves. The other option is a big warehouse and online trade, however that market, whilst in theory huge, is niche in terms of how many big stores it can support and compete with each other and its already quite full.
I think stores that can mix food and perhaps other avenues into wargaming in general, can at least bolster their earning potential and survive and perhaps even thrive.

Not looking good here. Just read an article saying one of the local store owners was arrested not keeping his store closed. The others around here shut down temporarily. This is just showing more and more it's about tyranny and control than anything else, so I do have a fear for stores in the wake of this widespread fear and panic over something that's not half as bad as it's being made out to be.

However like I said before, I wouldn't mind breaking the stranglehold and influence that game stores have on wargaming

Wayniac wrote:

However like I said before, I wouldn't mind breaking the stranglehold and influence that game stores have on wargaming

As I noted in my post I don't think this is the right attitude. In my view local stores support gamers and wargaming in general if the situation is setup right. A store acts as a beacon of highstreet attention and, providing the owner wants to sell the stuff, should promote the attraction of new customers all the time. They are a cornerstone of recruitment.

A local should be more than happy to support local clubs too, because all the club really needs from the store is an A4 spot somewhere on the window/desk to promote their venue and gaming nights and times - meanwhile the club should be able to support the store with increased sales through increased gaming and player retention in the club environment.



I think the whole "stranglehold" is the wrong attitude to take. It's the view that the store is against anyone gaming outside of their shop and that they'd discourage anyone starting their own club. Personally it sounds to me more like the kind of argument people make when they want a local club but don't want to actually organise it themselves; since that can include some costs and a fair bit of time and effort to get going. I think if you really want a local club then its up to you to put the effort into making it and making it work, rather than blaming the shop for not doing it for you.




Note since stores are not always perfectly run I'm sure there are horror stories out there of store owners who had some kind of vendetta or hatred of anyone who doesn't game in their store and somesuch. It's my impression that this is greatly in the minority and that such establishments often don't tend to last in the long term anyway since the store owner is taking such a poor attitude to consumer relations.

FLGS are in a difficult situation. In the past they have lived off of revenue from MTG, comics and such. However, MTG has been trying to boost online formats for a while and can cut into physical card sales. The same goes for comics.

It has been commented that even miniatures are being effected by digital products, with 3d printing being an alternative for more and more people (especially with the high cost of minis these days.)

Then you need to factor in the fear of contagion. With the pandemic people may be less likely to attend large tournaments which are the mainstay of stores. This may be especially true for children, as their parents may not let them come to the store.

Now, people can say, any one of these things is not a big deal, however they are happening all at once.

Brick and mortar stores need to create a reason for people to come there. To make it a destination. Hang out, play in tourneys, see neat models, and terrain, learn in person, etc.

It is just difficult. Destinations, like amusement parks are considering closing.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
In the Uk, provided GW has it in stock, if a FLGS orders by Wednesday they will typically get direct items with that week's delivery. So maybe it's a time issue for overseas ?

Even the webstore kits? Not talking about stuff you find on shelves but the non shelf items. Stores get smaller discount(small enough those aren"t really giving profit to stores) and have other restrictions as well(literally max cap store can order per month)

I think the whole "stranglehold" is the wrong attitude to take. It's the view that the store is against anyone gaming outside of their shop and that they'd discourage anyone starting their own club.

I will back Wayne up on this one. Not all FLGS are like this. But the community inside it can get VERY territorial and also very influential on what games are allowed to be played.

I have a couple of the very best FLGS I've ever been to in my area. The owners are wonderful and bend over backward to help accommodate my events.

But the communitiese within those FLGS can very much strangle out other games.

In my experience its not the FLGS itself but the community within. It gets very territorial very fast. If you've only got one store in your area, or even two, and both of those are dominated by local personalities that don't want anything to do with other games, there will be a lot of pressure on the people playing within to toe the line, and I find people are more than happy to toe the line to not rock the boat and keep things smooth. Same with crossing store boundaries.

Obviously not all like that but I've known my share of people that go out of their way to treat the other communities in an area as if they are some kind of rival gang that you should avoid at all costs.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

So the warehouse should be on lockdown in U.K., excellent, and as you indicated should be applauded, but in Australia with almost zero community spread and an almost complete curb stomping of the disease thus far why should there be no resupply of stocked items, when the staff are at work twiddling their thumbs.

The products are done and shipped from uk. Uk can't keep sending stuff from uk to there when uk is locked up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
Not looking good here. Just read an article saying one of the local store owners was arrested not keeping his store closed. The others around here shut down temporarily. This is just showing more and more it's about tyranny and control than anything else, so I do have a fear for stores in the wake of this widespread fear and panic over something that's not half as bad as it's being made out to be.

However like I said before, I wouldn't mind breaking the stranglehold and influence that game stores have on wargaming

Ah right us should order stores to shutdown but not enforce or it's tyranny. Makes perfect sense...to totally illogical beings

 auticus wrote:

I think the whole "stranglehold" is the wrong attitude to take. It's the view that the store is against anyone gaming outside of their shop and that they'd discourage anyone starting their own club.

I will back Wayne up on this one. Not all FLGS are like this. But the community inside it can get VERY territorial and also very influential on what games are allowed to be played.

I have a couple of the very best FLGS I've ever been to in my area. The owners are wonderful and bend over backward to help accommodate my events.

But the communitiese within those FLGS can very much strangle out other games.

In my experience its not the FLGS itself but the community within. It gets very territorial very fast. If you've only got one store in your area, or even two, and both of those are dominated by local personalities that don't want anything to do with other games, there will be a lot of pressure on the people playing within to toe the line, and I find people are more than happy to toe the line to not rock the boat and keep things smooth. Same with crossing store boundaries.

Obviously not all like that but I've known my share of people that go out of their way to treat the other communities in an area as if they are some kind of rival gang that you should avoid at all costs.

That isn't a problem with the FLGS, it is a problem with people. Why punish the FLGS?

I use to have some "not nice" people come to my coffee shop when I bought it that made the entire place less welcoming. They were long time shoppers, and very consistent. As a store owner I had to think hard about what I wanted to do? Removing long-time, consistent, paying customers who were part of the community had a lot of follow-on effects. Plus, there was the question of if I could replace their revenue with new sales once they were gone. In a small community, if you just up and kick them out, there is blow back.

After making enough changes to "their favorite hang-out" they decided to leave. That took about 3 months. Then it took another 6 months to consistently replace their income. 9 months of work to shift the environment of the store because of "the experience created by customers". Even looking back now, I wonder if it was worth it or if it hurt more than it helped.

In an even lower margin, niche customer business like a LGS, there is very little chance I am attempting to turn away any customers. I need every single one to try and break even. If I excommunicate a popular community member there is a HUGE risk to that, and little chance I can make it back up on "new" traffic.

tneva82 wrote:
The products are done and shipped from uk. Uk can't keep sending stuff from uk to there when uk is locked up.

I see we are coming at this from different ideas at what stage of the supply chain it is we are talking about.

UK, USA and China are the primary manufacture locations of GW product.
It is then distributed from those locations to their warehouses in those countries and subsidiary countries (Canada for the USA for example)

But products are also shipped to other regions...
Japan
Asia/Pacific which is based in Australia

In those secondary hub countries there are warehouses that fulfill the needs of local stores, online orders for those regions and FLGS distribution.

I think you are talking about the primary point, and yes I agree in those countries that it should be shut down currently.

But if at the secondary warehouses such as in Australia where the stock is there, the staff are at work, and there is no restriction for them to distribute as long as they maintain appropriate social distancing guidelines whilst preparing orders, then why should they not be able to distribute stock already there (not new releases to maintain worldwide release schedule)?

Other sub distributors for other companies in Australia are getting the products for gaming and hobby gear out. Just GW has it all in house so it has stopped completely.

tneva82 wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
In the Uk, provided GW has it in stock, if a FLGS orders by Wednesday they will typically get direct items with that week's delivery. So maybe it's a time issue for overseas ?

Even the webstore kits? Not talking about stuff you find on shelves but the non shelf items. Stores get smaller discount(small enough those aren"t really giving profit to stores) and have other restrictions as well(literally max cap store can order per month)

Yep , it’s less discount depending on store - usually 5-10% - but other than that it doesn’t matter what it is, if GW has it they can order it e.g Ork Stompa, finecast white boxes, etc - stuff that’s GW Direct.

 Easy E wrote:

 auticus wrote:

I think the whole "stranglehold" is the wrong attitude to take. It's the view that the store is against anyone gaming outside of their shop and that they'd discourage anyone starting their own club.

I will back Wayne up on this one. Not all FLGS are like this. But the community inside it can get VERY territorial and also very influential on what games are allowed to be played.

I have a couple of the very best FLGS I've ever been to in my area. The owners are wonderful and bend over backward to help accommodate my events.

But the communitiese within those FLGS can very much strangle out other games.

In my experience its not the FLGS itself but the community within. It gets very territorial very fast. If you've only got one store in your area, or even two, and both of those are dominated by local personalities that don't want anything to do with other games, there will be a lot of pressure on the people playing within to toe the line, and I find people are more than happy to toe the line to not rock the boat and keep things smooth. Same with crossing store boundaries.

Obviously not all like that but I've known my share of people that go out of their way to treat the other communities in an area as if they are some kind of rival gang that you should avoid at all costs.

That isn't a problem with the FLGS, it is a problem with people. Why punish the FLGS?

I use to have some "not nice" people come to my coffee shop when I bought it that made the entire place less welcoming. They were long time shoppers, and very consistent. As a store owner I had to think hard about what I wanted to do? Removing long-time, consistent, paying customers who were part of the community had a lot of follow-on effects. Plus, there was the question of if I could replace their revenue with new sales once they were gone. In a small community, if you just up and kick them out, there is blow back.

After making enough changes to "their favorite hang-out" they decided to leave. That took about 3 months. Then it took another 6 months to consistently replace their income. 9 months of work to shift the environment of the store because of "the experience created by customers". Even looking back now, I wonder if it was worth it or if it hurt more than it helped.

In an even lower margin, niche customer business like a LGS, there is very little chance I am attempting to turn away any customers. I need every single one to try and break even. If I excommunicate a popular community member there is a HUGE risk to that, and little chance I can make it back up on "new" traffic.

I've still seen the FLGS encourage/push the behavior though. Like they wont' let any games they don't stock be played, but also won't offer to order games that aren't mainstream. Or are openly hostile to certain elements (there's a store here that I've heard just outright hate historical games and won't let them be played in the store) or just push the idea there's only one game (i.e. Warhammer). So they are often just as guilty. The players are the main instigators but the store doesn't do anything to help the situation and often encourages it.

Wayniac wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 auticus wrote:

I think the whole "stranglehold" is the wrong attitude to take. It's the view that the store is against anyone gaming outside of their shop and that they'd discourage anyone starting their own club.

I will back Wayne up on this one. Not all FLGS are like this. But the community inside it can get VERY territorial and also very influential on what games are allowed to be played.

I have a couple of the very best FLGS I've ever been to in my area. The owners are wonderful and bend over backward to help accommodate my events.

But the communitiese within those FLGS can very much strangle out other games.

In my experience its not the FLGS itself but the community within. It gets very territorial very fast. If you've only got one store in your area, or even two, and both of those are dominated by local personalities that don't want anything to do with other games, there will be a lot of pressure on the people playing within to toe the line, and I find people are more than happy to toe the line to not rock the boat and keep things smooth. Same with crossing store boundaries.

Obviously not all like that but I've known my share of people that go out of their way to treat the other communities in an area as if they are some kind of rival gang that you should avoid at all costs.

That isn't a problem with the FLGS, it is a problem with people. Why punish the FLGS?

I use to have some "not nice" people come to my coffee shop when I bought it that made the entire place less welcoming. They were long time shoppers, and very consistent. As a store owner I had to think hard about what I wanted to do? Removing long-time, consistent, paying customers who were part of the community had a lot of follow-on effects. Plus, there was the question of if I could replace their revenue with new sales once they were gone. In a small community, if you just up and kick them out, there is blow back.

After making enough changes to "their favorite hang-out" they decided to leave. That took about 3 months. Then it took another 6 months to consistently replace their income. 9 months of work to shift the environment of the store because of "the experience created by customers". Even looking back now, I wonder if it was worth it or if it hurt more than it helped.

In an even lower margin, niche customer business like a LGS, there is very little chance I am attempting to turn away any customers. I need every single one to try and break even. If I excommunicate a popular community member there is a HUGE risk to that, and little chance I can make it back up on "new" traffic.

I've still seen the FLGS encourage/push the behavior though. Like they wont' let any games they don't stock be played, but also won't offer to order games that aren't mainstream. Or are openly hostile to certain elements (there's a store here that I've heard just outright hate historical games and won't let them be played in the store) or just push the idea there's only one game (i.e. Warhammer). So they are often just as guilty. The players are the main instigators but the store doesn't do anything to help the situation and often encourages it.

And I've seen many stores across the country in the 8+ states I've lived in remove problematic elements like that and be very willing to order/offer new products if people show interest in them. That's a very large brush you're tarring stores with because of your local's store owner being apathetic to the environment being created in their store.

 Easy E wrote:
However, in today's day and age "Smarter and Stronger" have very little to do with it. Unless there are specific definitions for what smarter and stronger means. In my experience it is the ability to sustain losses, the ability to leverage other people's money, and your inbuilt efficiencies that make the difference.

Small-Businesses subsidize larger National businesses. I once accidentally got the bill from a distributor for a National retailer that was in the same field as me. They got 20% off the top instantly due to economies of scale. So therefore, all us "Little" guys were subsidizing the national players. I am pretty sure nothing has changed in the Distribution world to alter that. My local Chamber of Commerce did nothing to help me, but bent over backwards to help the National members. Then they used my Dues money to push tax breaks and other policies that did not help me or my business. My local government had me subsidize the property tax of the big chain retailers because the big national companies were getting tax breaks for bringing "jobs". Even though I employed more people than the local national chain equivalent because creating jobs actually mattered to me. Meanwhile, all the small business owners around me were too busy trying to cut each other's throats while the bit our of town chains kepts stomping them into the ground. It was really a strange experience being a family business propping up Nationally recognized brands in exchange for getting undercut on price, out marketed in a conventional sense, and fighting for the same customer base.

Therefore, I think the definitions of Stronger and Smarter are really open for discussion.

100% this. Social Darwinism is such a dated economic model with the current economic inertia that scale and influence have, that just masks the old "bootstraps" myth in egoistic pseudoscience to claim that our disparities in wealth are based on raw ability rather than history and luck. Your ability to leverage your wealth to weather these crises is all that's going on: if (say, in small retail), your profits probably aren't fantastic, you rely on a physical and social visibility (regulars and walk-ins, not orders) and are a luxury business, which are boosted by impulse buys and high turnover of trendy new products, your numbers will likely be tanking right now. Then it becomes little other than how long can you weather the economic drought (savings, loans, overhead (rent, staff, whatever investments in products you made based on now-old information, etc.) and how quickly can you bounce back, nothing to do with your human qualities. This isn't about ability, this is about economics (and as Easy E mentioned, industry politics, but that's mostly beyond me other than in the abstract).

 Easy E wrote:
That isn't a problem with the FLGS, it is a problem with people. Why punish the FLGS?

I use to have some "not nice" people come to my coffee shop when I bought it that made the entire place less welcoming. They were long time shoppers, and very consistent. As a store owner I had to think hard about what I wanted to do? Removing long-time, consistent, paying customers who were part of the community had a lot of follow-on effects. Plus, there was the question of if I could replace their revenue with new sales once they were gone. In a small community, if you just up and kick them out, there is blow back.

After making enough changes to "their favorite hang-out" they decided to leave. That took about 3 months. Then it took another 6 months to consistently replace their income. 9 months of work to shift the environment of the store because of "the experience created by customers". Even looking back now, I wonder if it was worth it or if it hurt more than it helped.

In an even lower margin, niche customer business like a LGS, there is very little chance I am attempting to turn away any customers. I need every single one to try and break even. If I excommunicate a popular community member there is a HUGE risk to that, and little chance I can make it back up on "new" traffic.

Without trying to sound too judgmental, this kind of attitude is a huge turn off to me. Once I realize a store has a preferred class of customer, I never go there again.

It has something to do with networks, the idea that there's an optimized collection of customers who cause more and more to come in. But the more I think about it, the more it feels like herd mentality and short term thinking. I try to avoid those kinds of people in the first place.

Which brings me back to the current health care crisis. In the US, there are places that are heavily impacted by this virus, there are places that are not. While it will take some study to understand the factors at work, heavy use of elevators and air quality appear to have the biggest impact on outcomes.

Have a feeling brick and mortar is dead in major cities (at least in the US) that have had health emergencies. Unemployment is > 40% in NYC and 60% in LA, there's not going to be enough of a population with discretionary income to support stores in places like this. While San Francisco hasn't had the kinds of outcomes of the other two, everyone is telecommuting - restaurants are going out of business at a record rate. No one is going to want to go somewhere and spend money, the people there operate off these rules-based social contracts and just don't deviate.

I guess that brings me around to your coffee shop. Do you think having the right class of customers helps or hurts you during this pandemic? Are you counting on that group coming back after this all settles?

Because what I think comes next is something akin to a gaming club, the cost of commercial real estate and warehouse space is very low right now. I'm talking with someone about leasing 5,000 sq feet in a modern office building for < $10k a month in a high-end location right now, near public transportation. A month ago, that same space rented for $13 / sq ft, and the owner is willing to go in on anything between 12 months and 10 years.

Those kinds of deals make it attractive to set up membership clubs of any variety. I could see people in different places creating gaming clubs entirely separate from hobby stores. That would fill a void and allow everyone to just buy from online sources, which are more cost efficient. At that point, with cheap space, I don't know if there's an in-crowd to be had.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
The products are done and shipped from uk. Uk can't keep sending stuff from uk to there when uk is locked up.

I see we are coming at this from different ideas at what stage of the supply chain it is we are talking about.

UK, USA and China are the primary manufacture locations of GW product.
It is then distributed from those locations to their warehouses in those countries and subsidiary countries (Canada for the USA for example)

But products are also shipped to other regions...
Japan
Asia/Pacific which is based in Australia

In those secondary hub countries there are warehouses that fulfill the needs of local stores, online orders for those regions and FLGS distribution.

I think you are talking about the primary point, and yes I agree in those countries that it should be shut down currently.

But if at the secondary warehouses such as in Australia where the stock is there, the staff are at work, and there is no restriction for them to distribute as long as they maintain appropriate social distancing guidelines whilst preparing orders, then why should they not be able to distribute stock already there (not new releases to maintain worldwide release schedule)?

Other sub distributors for other companies in Australia are getting the products for gaming and hobby gear out. Just GW has it all in house so it has stopped completely.

It might be because of how government is paying out the furlough payments to companies. It might be that if GW only part shuts down it might not get all or any of the payment; it might risk not getting any of it and it might complicate the process so it takes longer to apply. So its more beneficial for them to shut the whole thing down. You also have to consider that sometimes staff abroad rely a lot on central managers to provide information etc... so if one part of the company is closed down the other parts end up needing to shut down too.


Plus as noted the GW factories are down; stock in overseas markets can't get replenished. GW's view might be its better to shut everything down and hold stock abroad so that when they restart there's a buffer period overseas before stock runs out fully. Giving GW time to get stock made and shipped out so that their entire company remains operational at roughly the same time. Rather than have overseas sites run out of stock and take weeks/month or more before they "come back online" even when the UK end has been online the whole time.

If one region has stock, people are likely to want to buy and resell.
GW's total closure stops that flow to FLGSs that are still open, and the online stockists. Once they run out, GW will have total control of the restock process.
As said, if there is a buffer stock sat on shelves and in depots, that will hold out for a while before the next shipments arrive.

So, if GW has just shut up shop for a while, when it opens up, things should be more normal more quickly.