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Made in us
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






You think that if GW lowers the price of a Space Marine my wife will suddenly buy a box because they are a good deal? She would never have heard of/nor had an interest in little plastic soldiers.

Your simple math doesn’t work because the customers you’re saying will suddenly start buying the products don’t exist in the numbers you’re using. Reducing the price of a product doesn’t increase demand ten fold.

Simple business math.
a) Demand is 10 customers. Supply is 10 products. Price is market value.
b) Demand is 100 customers. Supply is 50 products. Price is above market value.
c) Demand is 50 customers. Supply is 100 products. Price is below market value.

Which example do you think is GW? If I go on eBay right now and try to find that Catachan limited release do you think he’s b?

It sounds like the are checking their product line for if there is a demand.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 Chamberlain wrote:
Aren't non-GW gaming clubs (before pandemic) really popular in the UK? I always seem to see social media and blog posts about all sorts of games being played in the UK. Frostgrave? Gaslands? All sorts of historical gaming events? What's keeping warhammer interested people from doing likewise?


I can only speak from personal experience on this.

Such clubs seem to be in the larger cities or in very "middle England" areas. Where I live, despite being full of affluent commuters, clubs have failed every time. Usually, as I've stated before, due to costs of hosting them combined with lack of interest. Unless you have a large house, and can accommodate a large group of friends, you can't just go and setup a club. Venues want paying, you have to have insurance, there's issues over who and what the insurance will cover, loads of other stuff that gets in the way.

Don't get me wrong, but it's great if you happen to be lucky enough to live in areas of the UK where there are successful clubs. It's just those clubs seem to be fewer in number than in the past in my experience. There doesn't seem to be much of a club network for sharing stuff, most clubs appear to be isolated to their own areas, unless I'm missing something. One could spend weeks trawling Facebook and still not really find anything useful. And I'm only aware of one convention, and that's in the south (east or west, I forget). GW even put a stop to Games Day for a while as I recall.

I grew up, in the late 80s, into the early 90s, with after school games clubs being a thing in my area, good luck finding one of those in my area bringing fresh meat into the hobby now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jjohnso11 wrote:
You think that if GW lowers the price of a Space Marine...


Your wife might not. Existing players probably would. That's part of the point I'm trying to make here. One which you are intentionally dismissing.

Do you not think that existing players would like to pay less? No don't tell me, everyone is happy about paying more and wouldn't buy more or get a friend involved if the prices were lowered. That's basically your logic.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 03:38:26


 
   
Made in us
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






My logic is they are a business trying to turn a profit. I can’t fault the niche hobby company for increasing prices when demand has increased. It’s good business and it if they are doing it correct it will keep them in business producing high quality plastic toy soldiers.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Trying. They already turn 50-70 million a year profit.

For the six months to December 1 2019 their profits rose 44%.

They are hardly struggling, I doubt they'll even struggle that much during the current circumstances. And I'd debate the "high quality", especially where many units get overlooked for new releases. The plastic Catachans were poorly moulded when they were released, that was at least 15 years ago, probably even more, and I bought a box!!

The Khorne Berserkers are in desperate need of a refresh also.

Like I also said in a previous post, some of the their metal models, circa late 90s and onwards, have better defined details than current plastic ones.

Oh and finecast (although that brand name has been conveniently "retired"), oh the horror stories I've seen. A guy I know of, bought a FW Avenger (?), and posted his build of it in a youtube series, yeah, the canopy was all frosted, and parts were bent. I know resin has a habit of doing that, but GW's resin has a reputation...

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 04:02:35


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Rob Lee wrote:

Do you not think that existing players would like to pay less? No don't tell me, everyone is happy about paying more and wouldn't buy more or get a friend involved if the prices were lowered. That's basically your logic.


Wasn't there also a decade where GW had massive price hikes and their sales volume fell year over year over year until they got a new CEO and then start collecting happened, actually talking to the customer happened and they went from a decline to record sales and profit?

I think they should have held the start collecting at 50 pounds and been committed to being accessible to new people, but I understand that they were at production capacity and couldn't have taken advantage of it right then anyway.

It will be quite some time before we see what the pandemic does for GW sales numbers. It's possible that they'll have to radically drop prices to compete for less disposable income in a pandemic induced depression or they might decide to radically increase prices in hopes that every project gets profitable on release day even at low sales numbers. Maybe this will be the start of another decade long cycle of jacking up prices to make up for falling volume?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 Chamberlain wrote:

Wasn't there also a decade where GW had massive price hikes and their sales volume fell year over year over year until they got a new CEO and then start collecting happened, actually talking to the customer happened and they went from a decline to record sales and profit?

,,,Maybe this will be the start of another decade long cycle of jacking up prices to make up for falling volume?


Think so. To be honest I pretty much went away from the hobby/didn't pay attention to GWs goings on between about '05 and '15, I met, on a train, someone who worked in a "local" GW store once around '05-'10 and she wasn't complimentary about what was gong on with GW at the time. Came back to find GW had thrown a hissy fit over IP, WFB had ceased to be and prices had risen massively.

And yeah, probably.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 03:59:15


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Rob Lee wrote:
GW could easily lower their prices and make just as much profit.


Evidence? Keep in mind if you halve the price you need to MORE than double the sales to keep profits same. If you just double the # of kits you sell with halving price you DECREASE your profit...Good job!

GW is interested in one thing only: Profit. They don't do price hikes just for sake of higher price. High price isn't the end goal. It's the road to the end goal(higher profits). GW increases prices because it keeps giving them higher profits. It's all about maximizing profits.

They have incidentally tried cheaper price points for new kits so they have some idea on actual effect releasing new kit at lower price band than usual has. Clearly profit HASN'T increased.

If they lose some customers but get more profits it's good deal for GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rob Lee wrote:
Trying. They already turn 50-70 million a year profit.

For the six months to December 1 2019 their profits rose 44%.


Yes. And if they didn't keep rising prices their profits wouldn't have rose as much. They aren't in here to keep same profits as before. Whole western economy system DEPENDS on everything growing including profits. Simply staying same isn't good enough. Got to keep increasing profits. And for that: Price hikes since they have been working just fine.

As long as price hikes=bigger profits the GW will keep increasing. Because GW wants to keep increasing profits.

You assume they are in for charity. They are not. They are in it for profits. Lotsa profits. More and more profits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 05:43:17


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






To be honest tneva82 I'm too tired now to really bother.

Lucky for you if you're in a position to absorb the price hikes.

Many aren't, especially now here in the UK with the result of the economic trashing the "lockdown" has caused, and what lies ahead for people.

Many people will be leaving the hobby I suspect.

The player base, again here in the UK, will shrink even further.

Not good for the hobby as a whole. Well done to you if it doesn't affect you, have a golf clap...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 06:03:19


 
   
Made in at
Not as Good as a Minion





Austria

Argive wrote:
It is supply and demand.. And GW is supplying .. people are buying ... Seems to be working in the parameters of free market.

Jjohnso11 wrote:
Simple business math.
a) Demand is 10 customers. Supply is 10 products. Price is market value.
b) Demand is 100 customers. Supply is 50 products. Price is above market value.
c) Demand is 50 customers. Supply is 100 products. Price is below market value.

Which example do you think is GW? If I go on eBay right now and try to find that Catachan limited release do you think he’s b?
It sounds like the are checking their product line for if there is a demand.


why do you think that GW price is market driven?
GW has a monopol on GW Minis, there is no market they need to compete and if the Supply is 100 but the demand is 50, GW will increase the price so that those 50 pay for the 50 that are not selling as well.

GW has made clear some time ago how they calculate their prices, the kit itself needs to pay for its investment (design, casting, marketing, storage etc) in at the release weekend, everything is considered "failed"
So they take the expected sales of the box and price it in the way that it will pay off. Something that is expected to sell less at release is higher than something that is expected to sell more.

but there is no market behind of supply and demand as no matter how high the demand is or if the demand changes over time the price will be set for expected sales at release

the yearly price adjustments are there to get costumer used to specific values of models kits before they release a new one and GW constanly testing were the red line in pricing is.
the release something overpriced just to see if people still paying for it or not, and if not it will be released in a box that offers a huge "saving" (f2p mobile games buisness model)

also GW does not want to sell more, they have found their sweetspot with size of production, and selling more would mean to increase production which means a big investment in something not needed.

so the price is also set at a value were they sell what they can produce, and if they start to sell more, they increase the prices to get back to this sweet spot again.

tneva82 wrote:
Rob Lee wrote:
GW could easily lower their prices and make just as much profit.

Evidence? Keep in mind if you halve the price you need to MORE than double the sales to keep profits same. If you just double the # of kits you sell with halving price you DECREASE your profit...Good job

no, otherwise we would not see box sets like start collecting boxes or similar that let save something on the kits.
the already payed off but they cannot lower the initial price for the single box to sell more, the same as they cannot lower the price if they crosed a line with it and it is not selling at all, but they can make Christmas boxes, Start Collecting boxes, Stand Alone Game or 2 Player Campaign boxes that people will buy without changing the original price.

because as soon as GW lowers the price, as standard market of supply and demand would suggest, their initial pricing would be questioned much more
so there is also the problem of luxury goods, that once you reached a point you cannot go back without loosing your luxury reputation

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





WA, USA

Price rises are inevitable. I don't like it, but so what.

You can't say the player base will shrink or leave without proving it.

If you're making a definitive statement, you'll need to prove that statement. And that means going beyond your local gaming group. Things likes quarterly sales reports will tell you very fast if more or less are being sold.


 
   
Made in es
Dashing Super Valkyrie Flying Ace






 Jjohnso11 wrote:
Looks at the prices of smart phones. All the new phones are coming out at $1k now a days. That is ridiculous when I remember ten years ago buying a smart phone for like $100 and thinking I was ripped off. But people will still buy them.

You... must not have looked very hard. Or outside of a certain couple of manufacturers.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 Moopy wrote:
Price rises are inevitable. I don't like it, but so what.

You can't say the player base will shrink or leave without proving it.

If you're making a definitive statement, you'll need to prove that statement. And that means going beyond your local gaming group. Things likes quarterly sales reports will tell you very fast if more or less are being sold.



I said I suspect. Call it an educated guess if you will. Difficult to accept that I may actually be right though, I know.

If you really want proof though, go back and look at the time when GW were starting to engage in gouging people, look at how sales dropped off and GW were having problems (as I understand it, I wasn't keeping tabs on GW at the time), and that was without a pandemic stuffing people's economic futures up...

History teaches a great many things if you can be bothered learning.

Have a golf clap if you're not going to be affected. Well done you.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 06:31:01


 
   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





It's a little more complicated.

They started gouging because they had some trouble with profits in mid 2000's.

Their profits reamaind early 2010's up and untill 2017. It's kind of important to note here they never had losses.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fspikeybits.com%2F2017%2F08%2Fnew-gw-financial-toymakers-case.html&psig=AOvVaw3JaXl6BDad15cF-drjRH94&ust=1591256104700000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCJipqYqR5ekCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAO

After this graph the trend continues upwards until covid-19 hit. We have no idea what the financial situation is atm.


IMHO: to understand this price increase there are 2 Things that can explain it. And it is a departure from what their CEO wrote in last year's financial report. He said they would only be increasing prices by always making then next release X% more expensive(I believe it was something like 2 or 3%)

1) GW can't handle their usual volume of sales due to social distancing, people pending less etc. . So if you want to keep your profits level you need to increase prices. BTW given their production issues last year A case could be made they should have raised prices even then. I'm glad they didn't.

2)Other things have become more expensive. I don't know about the UK but here in Belgium pretty much everyhting has either seen prices collapse (like fuel) or a price increase. Including on base rescources. It could be GW is simply following that general trend.




 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






What's annoying with all the whales and their "if you can't afford it, don't" attitude, is that we need new players.

We all know GW is the entrance to the hobby in general for a lot of youngsters. As those get priced out, there's less and less gamers in general. Yes GW can keep feeding on the whales for years to come. As the whale numbers decrease, the prices can go up to keep the profit the same, so it won't affect GW for a very long time.

The other problem is that if GW prices are going up, other companies follow. This is fair enough if production costs or wages are going up, but to keep increasing prices for pure shareholder profit, and it going on to affect the entire hobby. Not good.

TLDR.
1. Ridiculously high prices = less new blood into the hobby = less people to play against
2. Other companies raise prices to keep just a bit behind GW = bad for all

Currently most played: Silent Death, Mars Code Aurora, Battletech, Warcrow and Infinity. 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

For new players, some armies are cheaper than others. There are always 'cheap' ways into 40k.
Price rises happen every year. How many kits went up in price? The OP's quote says 400 of 3,000 products.
I was not a universal price-rise, and lots of kits have not changed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 09:13:37


6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 4000 pts - 1000 pts - 1000 pts DS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK https://discord.gg/6Gk7Xyh5Bf 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Gimgamgoo wrote:
What's annoying with all the whales and their "if you can't afford it, don't" attitude, is that we need new players.

We all know GW is the entrance to the hobby in general for a lot of youngsters. As those get priced out, there's less and less gamers in general. Yes GW can keep feeding on the whales for years to come. As the whale numbers decrease, the prices can go up to keep the profit the same, so it won't affect GW for a very long time.

The other problem is that if GW prices are going up, other companies follow. This is fair enough if production costs or wages are going up, but to keep increasing prices for pure shareholder profit, and it going on to affect the entire hobby. Not good.

TLDR.
1. Ridiculously high prices = less new blood into the hobby = less people to play against
2. Other companies raise prices to keep just a bit behind GW = bad for all


Especially on the new blood side, i have seen a lot of guys attempt to get into the hobby because of TW Warhammer, lore , etc.
When they first look at the prices it's a dropoff quota of about 50%, not to mention that a lot of people will drop out because of the local community, which may or may not be accepting of new people, or small games, which may or may not be large enough to field multiple types of game as in competitive laid back, narative and so forth.

And then there is the issue of the Rules bloat respectively drought depending on what faction you are playing. Even just fielding 1 army at an decent pointlevel often requires alot of time and effort, getting then constantly beaten because some factions just get more or better rules or your specific faction get's ignored for a whole edition or in some cases even more certainly doesn't help it either, i was at a point in 8th which my R&H basically just got shelved , if it weren't for the fact that i had a halffinished CSM army lying around i'd have dropped out completely.
And there are multiple such factions which basically had players drop out due to that.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Togusa wrote:

e) They don't look like they belong in 40K, because they dont. If you like them, cool. Why we're talking about them in relation to 40K?


Because one person mentioned that Mantic did a snarky "price adjustment" annoucement in imitation of GW but actually lowered prices by 15%, and this massively triggered people whose families were murdered by Mantic so we got a few pages of off-topic gakking on their quality.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 09:28:17


The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I hate the price increases, yet I have kept on buying and therefore accept I am part of the problem/my own worst enemy.
However, there will be a tipping point. Of course many people can afford it currently and will continue to buy, but they must surely reach a point where this stops being the case and I think they're almost there.
But only when GW's bottom line is affected will there be any change to their pricing policy.

I've been playing a while, my first model was a lead marine and my first White Dwarf was bound with staples 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I've been in this hobby since 1987. As far back as I can remember people have said that GW's prices are too high and they're about to price themselves out of the market.

What's actually happened is that GW have continued to trade and expand (admittedly things were a bit wobbly for a few years but they got through it) while their nearest competitors, with lower prices that GW 'clearly ought to emulate' have all eventually gone out of business.

I think GW know what they are doing. And I don't mind my eyes watering at the prices now and again if it means that GW is guaranteed to be around tomorrow, next year, and in 10 years. And not just 'around' but continuing to put out loads of plastic kits including characters, subfactions, and specialist games - stuff that is risky, that might not sell, that we wouldn't get if they were just scraping by.
   
Made in at
Not as Good as a Minion





Austria

soviet13 wrote:
I've been in this hobby since 1987. As far back as I can remember people have said that GW's prices are too high and they're about to price themselves out of the market.

at least here we had the period during mid 5th edition until late 7th edition were people welcomed the change in price coming with the new plastic boxes and that they were in the right size to start units (instead of the old 10+3 box+blister stuff)
also some historical gamers started playing as a plastic Warhammer or 40k army was equal or cheaper than a full metal historical one

the big "GW prices are too high" complaining started here after the release of the fantasy Greatsword Box, as it was the first time the plastic kit was more expensive than the metal models it replaced
(before that it was just an expensive hobby, after that the complaining about their prices never ended)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in gb
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





UK

Rob Lee wrote:
The plastic Catachans were poorly moulded when they were released, that was at least 15 years ago, probably even more, and I bought a box!!



Try 1999. I bought a box in the Glasgow GW store then went to watch The Blair Witch Project!!

They seemed so fresh and new back then especially with 20 in the box. Relatively cheap, very large Imperial Guard armies seemed like they could be a thing.

I went back to the 2nd Ed metals. I still love the commlink bits though.

   
Made in es
Dashing Super Valkyrie Flying Ace






Yeah, I remember the Goldswords ^^. It certainly changed perceptions over here (plus, in Spain WFB was always the biggest seller).
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






alphaecho wrote:
Rob Lee wrote:
The plastic Catachans were poorly moulded when they were released, that was at least 15 years ago, probably even more, and I bought a box!!



Try 1999. I bought a box in the Glasgow GW store then went to watch The Blair Witch Project!!

They seemed so fresh and new back then especially with 20 in the box. Relatively cheap, very large Imperial Guard armies seemed like they could be a thing.

I went back to the 2nd Ed metals. I still love the commlink bits though.


OK, wow, didn't think they were that old, possibly when I bought them as well then, around that time. I've only got the remnants of the sprues left of mine, handy for Lasguns for Necromunda. Can't recall what I did with the actual models.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 11:41:39


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Overread wrote:
stratigo wrote:


The poor deserve to have hobbies and luxuries as much as you do mate.



I never said they don't deserve to have hobbies. Just that they don't "deserve" a specific one which is only one company of many in a single market. Just like you can't justify everyone having a DSLR camera or a drone etc.. There are many hobbies that simply price people out; you can't guilt trip fans nor a company into supporting a market they aren't aiming for. GW isn't aiming for the bottom end of affordability with their product; its not a market they are "chasing". Other companies ARE chasing or at least are affordable to those markets.

You can wargame on the cheap; perhaps it means you have to put a ibt more effort into promoting the game locally for your area, but otherwise there are cheap options. GW, Mantic, PP, etc.... none of the companies are required (legally nor morally) to make their products affordable to all. I'm sure GW and others do their best (within the bounds of also making a profit and income) to keep their price as low as they can.


And this is okay with you that people who want to enter a hobby are barred from it by their financial circumstances?
   
Made in jp
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot






Fun fact: The Landraider is now effectively £117 in Japan!

For all of you trying to say "people still whined in the 90s that it was too expensive" should try to remember if it cost that much back then.

But if GW are still making profits overall, I guess it's fine, because only looking at short-term profits is a flawless system, and there have never been busts, crashes, or recessions in human history.

Second fun fact: I've only been able to get onto the GW website from June 1st, after the site was 'down for maintenance' since before the hikes were announced. The hikes were never announced in Japanese.

Swear to god it seems like some of the people so fervently defending GWs trash business practices are feeling personally attacked by people saying "yeah, this is a silly price for little space men, I think it isn't clever to pay that much money" while they themselves add another unpainted box of them to their pile, instead of doing something enriching with that cash.
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

Goldswords started it, Warhammer being deleted finished it.

AoS with it's "jump like a squig hopper, paint your face green and scream waaagh as loud as you can for +20 dice" rules was pretty much just an act of grave defilement by the time it came out.

IMO, Necromunda re-release is the only GW release where they've done everything right recently. Great new models, rules retain the fun of the old version, low price point, haven't run a bulldozer through the background or done a CCG-style release schedule like underworlds. Only GW game that has real traction at my club.
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut






stratigo wrote:
 Overread wrote:
stratigo wrote:


The poor deserve to have hobbies and luxuries as much as you do mate.



I never said they don't deserve to have hobbies. Just that they don't "deserve" a specific one which is only one company of many in a single market. Just like you can't justify everyone having a DSLR camera or a drone etc.. There are many hobbies that simply price people out; you can't guilt trip fans nor a company into supporting a market they aren't aiming for. GW isn't aiming for the bottom end of affordability with their product; its not a market they are "chasing". Other companies ARE chasing or at least are affordable to those markets.

You can wargame on the cheap; perhaps it means you have to put a ibt more effort into promoting the game locally for your area, but otherwise there are cheap options. GW, Mantic, PP, etc.... none of the companies are required (legally nor morally) to make their products affordable to all. I'm sure GW and others do their best (within the bounds of also making a profit and income) to keep their price as low as they can.


And this is okay with you that people who want to enter a hobby are barred from it by their financial circumstances?

Not saying I agree with it, but financially speaking there are obviously things you can't do because of financial circumstances and that obviously applies to hobbies.
For example, I would like to have my own house and yet that is something I cannot do right now (buying a house or even renting one has become a luxury in my country of origin).
While it would be better if products were fairly priced, rather than priced for huge profits, that is not the reality we live in (smartphones are priced for something that has nothing to do with actual value, but rather the status).

   
Made in eu
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

stratigo wrote:

And this is okay with you that people who want to enter a hobby are barred from it by their financial circumstances?


In a word, yes.

Harsh, but ultimately the world works on capitalism, and it is a harsh mistress. However, we're not talking about being able to afford bread and milk here - it's a luxury hobby.

I'm not sure where this rationale ends. What if these same people decide they don't want to play Warhammer, they want to get into SCUBA diving, or sky diving, or golf, or yachting, or motor racing...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:
This has gone into the realm of surreal.

Are people seriously saying everyone deserves to have GW minis, and those that keep buying at these prices are selfish. is that really someone's position?
Wow, just wow.

It's really simple mathematics. You have options, freedom to choose if you will. You can either afford to play as is, find a way to afford to play (different job, asset allocation etc) or you just can't afford it and move on. There are many ways to play this game at a cheaper level. sure, you're not meta chasing, playing FOTM, but you can still play.

But telling people they are selfish and having a woe is me attitude because people are paying current prices is simply a level of entitlement that is borderline sad.


Yes. Yes everyone that wants to deserves to be able to play GW games in an ideal society, just as they deserve to have good housing and quality food. Now that's pure utopianism post scarcity, but it is the moral ideal. That you find that utterly ludicrous is, well, not great.

But beyond the moral ideal, the prices GW is charging for their products are not a reflection of any level of social good, they could be lower and maintain a profit. Indeed they could be lower and probably garner MORE profit. I'd love to see the profits of forgeworld before and after they "equalized" (raised) prices for literally the entire world except UK. I suspect Forge world's growth.... slowed. So even without the utopian ideal, GW could strive to be more inclusive likely without sacrificing much, if any, profit.

And the idea that you can just get a "different job" is so mired in entitled privilege that it's kind of laughable. Most people I find don't put too much thought into the interconnected nature of the modern economy and how the business practices of even a model producing hobby company reflect poorly upon it (and not even the most poorly, compared to many companies, GW is saintly in their treatment of employees and doesn't dodge taxes as relentlessly), so i do spend some time tying to get them to connect their passion to something bigger. People literally work 10 hour days every day for a year to barely afford to live. I know people who work those kind of hours that have, previously, loved GW games and simply been utterly priced out. So yes, you, personally, are selfish.

 kodos wrote:
Argive wrote:
It is supply and demand.. And GW is supplying .. people are buying ... Seems to be working in the parameters of free market.

Jjohnso11 wrote:
Simple business math.
a) Demand is 10 customers. Supply is 10 products. Price is market value.
b) Demand is 100 customers. Supply is 50 products. Price is above market value.
c) Demand is 50 customers. Supply is 100 products. Price is below market value.

Which example do you think is GW? If I go on eBay right now and try to find that Catachan limited release do you think he’s b?
It sounds like the are checking their product line for if there is a demand.


why do you think that GW price is market driven?
GW has a monopol on GW Minis, there is no market they need to compete and if the Supply is 100 but the demand is 50, GW will increase the price so that those 50 pay for the 50 that are not selling as well.

GW has made clear some time ago how they calculate their prices, the kit itself needs to pay for its investment (design, casting, marketing, storage etc) in at the release weekend, everything is considered "failed"
So they take the expected sales of the box and price it in the way that it will pay off. Something that is expected to sell less at release is higher than something that is expected to sell more.

but there is no market behind of supply and demand as no matter how high the demand is or if the demand changes over time the price will be set for expected sales at release

the yearly price adjustments are there to get costumer used to specific values of models kits before they release a new one and GW constanly testing were the red line in pricing is.
the release something overpriced just to see if people still paying for it or not, and if not it will be released in a box that offers a huge "saving" (f2p mobile games buisness model)

also GW does not want to sell more, they have found their sweetspot with size of production, and selling more would mean to increase production which means a big investment in something not needed.

so the price is also set at a value were they sell what they can produce, and if they start to sell more, they increase the prices to get back to this sweet spot again.

tneva82 wrote:
Rob Lee wrote:
GW could easily lower their prices and make just as much profit.

Evidence? Keep in mind if you halve the price you need to MORE than double the sales to keep profits same. If you just double the # of kits you sell with halving price you DECREASE your profit...Good job

no, otherwise we would not see box sets like start collecting boxes or similar that let save something on the kits.
the already payed off but they cannot lower the initial price for the single box to sell more, the same as they cannot lower the price if they crosed a line with it and it is not selling at all, but they can make Christmas boxes, Start Collecting boxes, Stand Alone Game or 2 Player Campaign boxes that people will buy without changing the original price.

because as soon as GW lowers the price, as standard market of supply and demand would suggest, their initial pricing would be questioned much more
so there is also the problem of luxury goods, that once you reached a point you cannot go back without loosing your luxury reputation


This hits the nail on the head. GW pricing isn't driven by a perfectly free market of supply and demand that literally does not exist outside the dreams of people who don't actually know much about markets.

GW curates its price and its markets. The price rises aren't incidental, and they are, in fact, deliberately pricing people out of the hobby. People defending price rises are either purely egoist, or worse.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The economic impact of Coronavirus is weird.

GW probably have fewer customers - people have been made redundant, or furloughed on 80% pay and so lost much of their disposable income.

But then there's that other group of middle, the middle-class, 30-somethings who also make up a good portion of GW customers, who are still employed, working from home, and have a load of excess money at the moment because there's no chance of going on holiday this year, no gigs to go to, no festivals, no cinema, no theatre, no eating out, no travel costs - they've got a tonne more disposable income.

Those people can afford the increased prices (for now) and it might help bridge the losses from many people having to just stop buying hobby stuff entirely. It makes sense from that perspective.

Is it consumer friendly? No of course not. But honestly it's the most understandable GW price increase in years.

   
 
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