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If you declare a charge and roll high enough to reach a charged unit, can you opt not to move at all and fail the charge intentionally?

Rules say you "CAN" move up to the amount rolled, but the next line says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model.

Does the must overrule the can? Or does the must only take effect if you move at all?

 Aftersong wrote:
If you declare a charge and roll high enough to reach a charged unit, can you opt not to move at all and fail the charge intentionally?

Rules say you "CAN" move up to the amount rolled, but the next line says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model.

Does the must overrule the can? Or does the must only take effect if you move at all?

If you move, it must end within 1" of an enemy model. If you can't (or wont) move within 1" of an enemy model, you can't move whatsoever. It's a pretty niche case though as situations where you'd want to take casualties from overwatch and not get into fight range are pretty rare.

WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK Official Update Version 1.6 wrote:Q: If a rule says that I can do something (for example, ‘when a Morale test is taken for this unit, you can re-roll the dice’), does that mean I have to do that thing, or is it optional?
A: If a rule says you can do something, it is entirely up to you to decide if you want to do that thing. For example, if a rule states ‘when resolving an attack made with this weapon, you can re-roll the hit roll’, that is permitting the player to do that thing. Compare this to ‘when resolving an attack made with this weapon, re-roll a hit roll of 1’ – this is an instruction to the player that is not optional.

The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

That isn't what it says. It says it "must finish" the move within 1". If it doesn't move, then it doesn't have a move to finish. Look at the context of the rule.

Since I am the only who seems to care about citations:

BRB, Page 182 wrote:After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units.

As per FAQ, the can is optional. Is it stupid? Yes. Do I think it's probably meant to require the model to make a charge move if possible? Also yes. Does it require the model to do so? No.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

The full quote is "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." If you choose to move none of the models, then you're not bound to have one within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units.

I don't see a benefit of not making the charge move if you've rolled high enough to reach the targeted unit. You'll still be subject to Overwatch so all you've done is give your opponent a chance to shoot at your troops.

 Ghaz wrote:
I don't see a benefit of not making the charge move if you've rolled high enough to reach the targeted unit. You'll still be subject to Overwatch so all you've done is give your opponent a chance to shoot at your troops.

I imagine there’s a benefit in some fringe cases. For instance, declaring a charge on 2 targets, one 2” away and another 8” away. You want to reach the further target, but doing so means passing with 1” of the closer target. rolling snake eyes or 3 Would let you reach the closer target but not the further one. If you make the charge you might kill the closest target, leaving you exposed to enemy shooting while your current position might be in cover or out of LOS etc.

Like I said, fringe cases, but I can imagine that sometimes it’s beneficial not to carry out the charge.

 Ghaz wrote:
I don't see a benefit of not making the charge move if you've rolled high enough to reach the targeted unit. You'll still be subject to Overwatch so all you've done is give your opponent a chance to shoot at your troops.

Maybe your warlord is Magnus. Your opponent unexpectedly takes all but one of his wounds in overwatch. Now at his lowest bracket, you are not confident of wiping out the squad in close combat and Magnus is pretty much guaranteed to die from the reprisal. You leave him where he is and try to tie up the enemy by making a sacrificial charge with something else. You waste the potential of the other unit but your warlord lives and you deny your opponent a bunch of victory points.

Convoluted, but it could happen.

 doctortom wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

The full quote is "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." If you choose to move none of the models, then you're not bound to have one within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units.

I was going off what the OP said. DIdnt even see bcb post, as our replies were around the same time.

Though "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." and the rest of the "Make charge move" rules, in context, make it so you have to move if you declare a charge and roll dice to determine distance if you roll high enough to reach your target unit.

So you have to move the models you declared a charge with, and can not choose to not move them at that point. The " Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit" clause is there because you need to move your models unless you fail the charge roll.

 Ghaz wrote:
I don't see a benefit of not making the charge move if you've rolled high enough to reach the targeted unit. You'll still be subject to Overwatch so all you've done is give your opponent a chance to shoot at your troops.

The situations where it came up for me are generally related to overwatch losses. You start with a 10 man unit, you lose 7 models, you don't want to expose the character standing behind it. It happens to me most often fighting against Imperial Knights, I might be charging with Berzerkers and want to make sure the Knight doesn't have a way to target a Chaos Lord the next turn.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

The full quote is "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." If you choose to move none of the models, then you're not bound to have one within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units.

I was going off what the OP said. DIdnt even see bcb post, as our replies were around the same time.

Though "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." and the rest of the "Make charge move" rules, in context, make it so you have to move if you declare a charge and roll dice to determine distance if you roll high enough to reach your target unit.

So you have to move the models you declared a charge with, and can not choose to not move them at that point. The " Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit" clause is there because you need to move your models unless you fail the charge roll.

The rule literally says "can", so it's optional to move the first model. If you DO move the first model, it must finish the move within 1" of an enemy model. The FAQ provides the context, since you love that so much.

Charge moves are optional. If you move them there are stipulations on how. There is no obligation to move them.

 Ghaz wrote:
I don't see a benefit of not making the charge move if you've rolled high enough to reach the targeted unit. You'll still be subject to Overwatch so all you've done is give your opponent a chance to shoot at your troops.

Overwatch happens before you roll the dice to see how far you move.

Someone may decide to not engage if they lost too many models from Overwatch, but more likely you'd want to go through with the charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The line that says the first model "MUST" end it's move within 1" of a enemy model makes it so you have to move.

The full quote is "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." If you choose to move none of the models, then you're not bound to have one within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units.

I was going off what the OP said. DIdnt even see bcb post, as our replies were around the same time.

Though "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." and the rest of the "Make charge move" rules, in context, make it so you have to move if you declare a charge and roll dice to determine distance if you roll high enough to reach your target unit.

So you have to move the models you declared a charge with, and can not choose to not move them at that point. The " Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit" clause is there because you need to move your models unless you fail the charge roll.

As others have said (quoting the rule this time)

:"Each model in the charging unitcan move up to this number of inches - this is their charge distance this turn."

It does not say "must" move up to this number of inches, so (as BCB demonstrated with his rules quote above) you are not forced to take any movement. If you do choose to move, however, you have the restriction on where the first model moved must end up.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Charge moves are optional. If you move them there are stipulations on how. There is no obligation to move them.

That is not accurate.

The context of the charge rules tell us that if you succeed with the charge roll, you need to move to get within 1" of the enemy.

The thing about can move the first model it says "can move up to this number of inches" So that, in context, means they do not have to move the full distance, not that they can choose to not move.

The 2D6 roll sets the max distance they CAN move...

Though they still must move if they make the charge.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Charge moves are optional. If you move them there are stipulations on how. There is no obligation to move them.

That is not accurate.

The context of the charge rules tell us that if you succeed with the charge roll, you need to move to get within 1" of the enemy.

The thing about can move the first model it says "can move up to this number of inches" So that, in context, means they do not have to move the full distance, not that they can choose to not move.

The 2D6 roll sets the max distance they CAN move...

Though they still must move if they make the charge.

Did you not read the FAQ? It literally says "can" means it is optional. It doesn't matter what the rules say, FAQ says it's optional.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Charge moves are optional. If you move them there are stipulations on how. There is no obligation to move them.

That is not accurate.

The context of the charge rules tell us that if you succeed with the charge roll, you need to move to get within 1" of the enemy.

The thing about can move the first model it says "can move up to this number of inches" So that, in context, means they do not have to move the full distance, not that they can choose to not move.

The 2D6 roll sets the max distance they CAN move...

Though they still must move if they make the charge.

Did you not read the FAQ? It literally says "can" means it is optional. It doesn't matter what the rules say, FAQ says it's optional.

Can doesnt always mean its optional.

1. Choose Unit to Fight With
Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an
enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase.

Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight in the Fight phase,
can you choose for them not to fight this turn? Also, if any of
your units charged in the Charge phase, do they have to fight
first in the Fight phase, or can you choose for them to wait until
later in the phase?

A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight phase; they
cannot ‘pass’ and wait for another phase. Additionally,
a unit must fight when it is its time to do so; it cannot
‘hold’ in order to fight later in the phase.

Now we have two contradicting FAQs. One says can is optional, the other says units must fight, when they are eligible to do so.

So, the FAQ that applies to only one specific thing applies to that one specific thing, whereas the FAQ that applies generally applies to everything else?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Charge moves are optional. If you move them there are stipulations on how. There is no obligation to move them.

That is not accurate.

The context of the charge rules tell us that if you succeed with the charge roll, you need to move to get within 1" of the enemy.

The thing about can move the first model it says "can move up to this number of inches" So that, in context, means they do not have to move the full distance, not that they can choose to not move.

The 2D6 roll sets the max distance they CAN move...

Though they still must move if they make the charge.

Incorrect, as I explained in the post directly above the one of yours I quoted. "can move up to" is not "must move up to".


BCB provided a quotation from a FAQ supporting that can does not equal must. If you want to keep insisting that they must move, please provide the quotation that shows that they must move.

Do not ignore the context.

It does not matter that it says "can move up to" the rest of the step makes it clear that you must move.

So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

You should give up JNAProductions, once DeathReaper has latched on to whatever "context" he thinks the rule has, there is no convincing them. Apparently "context" is all you need to ignore the rules as written or rules as dictated by FAQ.

Yeesh people. Read the entire rule.

After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. The first model you move must finnish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its charge. If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase. Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so. No unit can be selected to charge more than once in each Charge phase.

In this case, I believe DeathReaper is actually correct. You are required by the sentence I placed in bold italics to make the charge move since choosing not to move does not make the move impossible.

 alextroy wrote:
Yeesh people. Read the entire rule.

After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn. The first model you move must finnish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units. No models in the charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that was not a target of its charge. If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase. Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so. No unit can be selected to charge more than once in each Charge phase.

In this case, I believe DeathReaper is actually correct. You are required by the sentence I placed in bold italics to make the charge move since choosing not to move does not make the move impossible.

No, that covers charges failing. It does not say that if the charge succeeds, you must move. That's still a can, not a must.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

The FAQ means exactly what it means, but it does not apply to charge moves because of the context of the rules in the "Make charge move" rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

You should give up JNAProductions, once DeathReaper has latched on to whatever "context" he thinks the rule has, there is no convincing them. Apparently "context" is all you need to ignore the rules as written or rules as dictated by FAQ.

your arguments are the ones ignoring the RAW.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

The FAQ means exactly what it means, but it does not apply to charge moves because of the context of the rules in the "Make charge move" rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So the FAQ means... Nothing?

Because BCB has pretty clearly cited their sources.

You should give up JNAProductions, once DeathReaper has latched on to whatever "context" he thinks the rule has, there is no convincing them. Apparently "context" is all you need to ignore the rules as written or rules as dictated by FAQ.

your arguments are the ones ignoring the RAW.

Provide context. Nothing says "Must move."

It does restrict how you can move IF YOU MOVE, but if you choose to just not move, you don't have to move.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Provide context. Nothing says "Must move."

It does restrict how you can move IF YOU MOVE, but if you choose to just not move, you don't have to move.

I have, but ill go over it again.

it is in the "4. Make Charge Move" rules.


"...roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn." this is the context. it is telling you your max move when you charge. no model may move more than this, though some can be moved less that the full amount. "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." and there is the rest of the context.

They are talkling about not being able to exceed the distance rolled. They do not give you an option to not move at all once you roleld your distance and were successful.

If you're trying to parse those rules as saying "It just says that I can move..." then you also have to parse out the statement:

Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so. No unit can be selected to charge more than once in each Charge phase.

as saying that if you don't move any models in the unit, you cannot declare any more charges. You're done with the 'declare charges' section, and it's time to move on to fighting.

Well, that seems like a different issue. What you just quoted RAW says the charge phase ends if you fail a charge, for whatever reason - either because you choose not to move, or because you roll too low a result - because you are only allowed to choose another unit to charge after you move your models, and if you roll too low, you can't move your models.

But that is obviously not RAI, and nobody plays it that way. If you fail one charge everyone still plays it that you can attempt charges with any other unit that hasn't attempted yet.

So I don't think it really answers the question either way.

To answer an earlier question, another reason you might deliberately declare a charge but not go through is because you're deliberately trying to suicide something, but don't want to give your opponent a pile in and consolidate move if their overwatch fails to do the job. There are all sorts of reasons you might want to do this, particularly if you're going second in a format like ITC - one obvious example would be if you're already ahead on kill more by more than one unit, and you have a single model left from some unit that they can use to get an easy kill next battle round, when you may not be able to get kill more. So you want to get your unit killed this battle round, when it won't add to your opponent's score - but maybe not at the cost of giving your opponent 6" of movement.

Now I don't think you have to overwatch, so if your opponent realizes what's going on they might not take the bait...

Also if you take too many casualties to Overwatch to make it worthwhile. I’ve seen people bail for that reason.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Provide context. Nothing says "Must move."

It does restrict how you can move IF YOU MOVE, but if you choose to just not move, you don't have to move.

I have, but ill go over it again.

it is in the "4. Make Charge Move" rules.


"...roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn." this is the context. it is telling you your max move when you charge. no model may move more than this, though some can be moved less that the full amount. "The first model you move must finish within 1" of an enemy model from one of the target units." and there is the rest of the context.

They are talkling about not being able to exceed the distance rolled. They do not give you an option to not move at all once you roleld your distance and were successful.

Your statement does not prove it. It stil says "can move up to", not "must move up to". The "move up to" part covers everything you are saying, the move can go up to what you rolled. What you are deliberately ignoring is that it says you can move up to..., not you must move up to... You've already defined the distances involved in the last phrase of the sentence, but it says you may move any distance up to that. As the FAQ stated, "can" leave you the option of not taking that action. You may move the model up to what you rolled on the 2d6, but you also may not move the model. They've already covered the maximum distance you can move without considering the "may". That is the context. You may or may not move the model.. If you move the model it can be moved any distance up to what you rolled. But still you may choose to not move the model as that is the other option with "may" in the statement.