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bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

Jacob29 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Do you think GW will ever slow down on Space Marine releases?

They had more than 2x the next faction to get models... its ridiculous.

Granted they are boomed, perhaps because of it? But it feels like such a waste.

Imagine the much better boxes we can have with say..

Dark Elves vs Guard
Eldar vs Necrons
Orks vs Tau

Rather than

Dark Elves vs Marines
Orks vs Marines
Necrons vs Marines

Starter boxes will always have Marines because Marines make up like 60% of all army sales (rough spitball number, point is they are SUPER popular). And we saw Eldar vs Dark Eldar and two flavors of Daemons in boxes just last year and they were basically ignored by most of the player base. It just doesn't work as a sales model.

And they have slowed down with Marines (last big release was Shadowspear at the end of last year) but a new edition means a new starter and it looks like said new starter is melee Marine focused.

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

 Hollow wrote:
I found the preview to be completely underwhelming.

The little CGI movie was ok but pretty lame all in, it just looks like a computer game cutscene from 10+ years ago. When you compare the animation and vibe to the likes of Astartes it kinda makes me sad that GW official can't produce stuff with anywhere near as much atmosphere.

The 9 things video was lame. Who is this directed at?

The models on show look REALLY underwhelming. Poor show.

In fairness Astartes is a many years long fan project by a strongly dedicated fan. The CGI for this is simply a new edition launch and the video now its shown has passed its purpose. It's only introducing a new board game; not being run every time you play the game. GW has done a good job considering its not their market (they make board games not computer games) nor their focus. That they made it to this level of quality is fantastic in itself. In the past you might get some animated still art (where limbs and parts bend to move); or just photos etc.... It's a nice and fun animation and sure GW can likely do better if they threw more money at it ,but there's no reason for them to throw insane money into a short ad video.

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

A genuinely new edition. Something transformational, not just the same tweaking they have been doing for 20+ years. A genuine over-hall of their online presence, not just ANOTHER rubbish game-specific website that will be dust in a few weeks' time. A new logo that doesn't look like it has been designed in Vectorworks by a 1st-year graphics student.

Darsath wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

yep, if they had shown the models from the 2 sides that have already been shown here....I think people would have been more satisfied. 9th wasn't really a "big reveal", we all knew it was coming to some degree (while others tried their best to shout otherwise)

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

They called out the frag missile as an example, I think it's more likely they'll get an extra D6 if the target unit is over 10 models. Or just do a flat 6/max shots.

I got the impression that a bast weapon targeting hordes would get the max shots; d6 becomes 6, d3 becomes 3, etc. Pretty big improvement, almost 50% increase to the attacks average!

My question is what defines a "horde". 10 models? 20 models? More than that? Can you get around this new rule with MSU? Does the size of the models themselves matter, or will 20 rubrics get hit as hard by blasts as 20 orks? Not making a judgement call on which answer to any of these questions is the "right" one but there's a lot of stuff we have no idea on here.

Perhaps it will be a keyword tag. Blast weapons get max shots against <horde> units.

Ork Boyz: <ork>, <infantry>, <horde>.

Like that.

Or horde units are the new swarm bases.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

They called out the frag missile as an example, I think it's more likely they'll get an extra D6 if the target unit is over 10 models. Or just do a flat 6/max shots.

I got the impression that a bast weapon targeting hordes would get the max shots; d6 becomes 6, d3 becomes 3, etc. Pretty big improvement, almost 50% increase to the attacks average!

My question is what defines a "horde". 10 models? 20 models? More than that? Can you get around this new rule with MSU? Does the size of the models themselves matter, or will 20 rubrics get hit as hard by blasts as 20 orks? Not making a judgement call on which answer to any of these questions is the "right" one but there's a lot of stuff we have no idea on here.

Perhaps it will be a keyword tag. Blast weapons get max shots against <horde> units.

Ork Boyz: <ork>, <infantry>, <horde>.

Like that.

But why would 10 Boyz be a Horde? That's the same size as an Infantry Squad, and I don't think they'd deserve the Horde keyword.

Darsath wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

Well there's a rules chat this Tuesday mean while GW's community team are still working from home.

Honestly I'm sure if Corona weren't a thing GW would have shown you FAR more in this reveal - photos, model, rules etc... Because chances are it would only be a few weeks away from pre-release week. Instead we are perhaps a month or two away from the release slot - GW has to tease it out; whilst at the same time trying to stick to some of their original marketing dates to fit in with big events that would have happened and are missing. Basically we are getting early marketing as a treat for missing out on a big event that otherwise we would have attended.

Asides its not as if how much they preview is going to affect what we get; its just choosing when and how much information you get to learn before release.


Plus you're here talking about it right - you are interested, you are hooked; the marketing is working. You're not hyped to buy and that's fine, GW can't sell it to you. You're hyped for more information which is exactly what GW is going to tease out to you over the coming weeks - hyping it up until launch day when, hopefully, you'll be even more keen after seeing more and more preview info.

I really like the bikes. I just wish they had the huge windshields of the old bikes or the crazy wings of Ravenwing.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

They called out the frag missile as an example, I think it's more likely they'll get an extra D6 if the target unit is over 10 models. Or just do a flat 6/max shots.

I got the impression that a bast weapon targeting hordes would get the max shots; d6 becomes 6, d3 becomes 3, etc. Pretty big improvement, almost 50% increase to the attacks average!

My question is what defines a "horde". 10 models? 20 models? More than that? Can you get around this new rule with MSU? Does the size of the models themselves matter, or will 20 rubrics get hit as hard by blasts as 20 orks? Not making a judgement call on which answer to any of these questions is the "right" one but there's a lot of stuff we have no idea on here.

Perhaps it will be a keyword tag. Blast weapons get max shots against <horde> units.

Ork Boyz: <ork>, <infantry>, <horde>.

Like that.

Would definitely solve the problem of separating out "hordes" and elite infantry that fight in big groups. I like how this solution divorces the rule from model count too, makes it hit some of the weirder horde models like scarabs. Of course there's nothing but speculation on what they'll actually do for now.

 bullyboy wrote:

Darsath wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

yep, if they had shown the models from the 2 sides that have already been shown here....I think people would have been more satisfied. 9th wasn't really a "big reveal", we all knew it was coming to some degree (while others tried their best to shout otherwise)

They could have shown 2-3 models from each side, and maybe a small preview of a rule of 2 from Pariah, and save the rest like they're doing now. Would've been received a lot better and let them save plenty for other previews too.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

They called out the frag missile as an example, I think it's more likely they'll get an extra D6 if the target unit is over 10 models. Or just do a flat 6/max shots.

I got the impression that a bast weapon targeting hordes would get the max shots; d6 becomes 6, d3 becomes 3, etc. Pretty big improvement, almost 50% increase to the attacks average!

My question is what defines a "horde". 10 models? 20 models? More than that? Can you get around this new rule with MSU? Does the size of the models themselves matter, or will 20 rubrics get hit as hard by blasts as 20 orks? Not making a judgement call on which answer to any of these questions is the "right" one but there's a lot of stuff we have no idea on here.

Perhaps it will be a keyword tag. Blast weapons get max shots against <horde> units.

Ork Boyz: <ork>, <infantry>, <horde>.

Like that.

Would definitely solve the problem of separating out "hordes" and elite infantry that fight in big groups. I like how this solution divorces the rule from model count too, makes it hit some of the weirder horde models like scarabs. Of course there's nothing but speculation on what they'll actually do for now.

I'd be pretty mad if a squad of 30 Plaguebearers that have been reduced to 8 models or so take more shots from a Battle Cannon than a 10-man MEQ squad.

 Overread wrote:

Darsath wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

Well there's a rules chat this Tuesday mean while GW's community team are still working from home.

Honestly I'm sure if Corona weren't a thing GW would have shown you FAR more in this reveal - photos, model, rules etc... Because chances are it would only be a few weeks away from pre-release week. Instead we are perhaps a month or two away from the release slot - GW has to tease it out; whilst at the same time trying to stick to some of their original marketing dates to fit in with big events that would have happened and are missing. Basically we are getting early marketing as a treat for missing out on a big event that otherwise we would have attended.

Asides its not as if how much they preview is going to affect what we get; its just choosing when and how much information you get to learn before release.


Plus you're here talking about it right - you are interested, you are hooked; the marketing is working. You're not hyped to buy and that's fine, GW can't sell it to you. You're hyped for more information which is exactly what GW is going to tease out to you over the coming weeks - hyping it up until launch day when, hopefully, you'll be even more keen after seeing more and more preview info.

I don't think Corona Virus forced Games Workshop to sell this announcement as the biggest reveal in 40k history man. If they can't release much, then why'd they make such a silly statement?

 Hollow wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

A genuinely new edition. Something transformational, not just the same tweaking they have been doing for 20+ years. A genuine over-hall of their online presence, not just ANOTHER rubbish game-specific website that will be dust in a few weeks' time. A new logo that doesn't look like it has been designed in Vectorworks by a 1st-year graphics student.

8th was a new edition, changed wildly from 7th. 9th is the second iteration of the new rules. The rest of your wish list appears to be stuff to do with GW not 40k.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but I don't think your reply fits the initial I'm disappointed, in other words, i think you're just being contrary.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd be pretty mad if a squad of 30 Plaguebearers that have been reduced to 8 models or so take more shots from a Battle Cannon than a 10-man MEQ squad.

Well ultimately the reason for changing the blast rule is to make weapons that are more efficient against chaff than elites so you might have to live with that realism discrepancy.

I think the Necron Warriors kit getting its first remake in what, 18 years? is genuinely a great thing, doubly so if the new release wave also extends to the Destroyers and the Monolith. All three kits are well past their prime, and the Monolith especially is a bear to put together neatly. Once those three kits are redone, the range will be in a reasonably good place, and cohesive aesthetically.

Darsath wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Darsath wrote:

bfdhud wrote:
What would they have had to announce to make you happy?

Serious question.

Probably some models, or rules preview would have been a good inclusion. Felt more sparse in content than any of the other announcements, and they hyped this one up deliberately as the biggest ever (again). Maybe they'll learn to stop doing that at least.

Well there's a rules chat this Tuesday mean while GW's community team are still working from home.

Honestly I'm sure if Corona weren't a thing GW would have shown you FAR more in this reveal - photos, model, rules etc... Because chances are it would only be a few weeks away from pre-release week. Instead we are perhaps a month or two away from the release slot - GW has to tease it out; whilst at the same time trying to stick to some of their original marketing dates to fit in with big events that would have happened and are missing. Basically we are getting early marketing as a treat for missing out on a big event that otherwise we would have attended.

Asides its not as if how much they preview is going to affect what we get; its just choosing when and how much information you get to learn before release.


Plus you're here talking about it right - you are interested, you are hooked; the marketing is working. You're not hyped to buy and that's fine, GW can't sell it to you. You're hyped for more information which is exactly what GW is going to tease out to you over the coming weeks - hyping it up until launch day when, hopefully, you'll be even more keen after seeing more and more preview info.

I don't think Corona Virus forced Games Workshop to sell this announcement as the biggest reveal in 40k history man. If they can't release much, then why'd they make such a silly statement?

And PA was supposed to change 40 as much as horus heresy. GW constantly, CONTSTANTLY over hypes and under delivers. I mean my group is so over 8th we don't even play anymore so for us this was amazing!!

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think the Necron Warriors kit getting its first remake in what, 18 years? is genuinely a great thing, doubly so if the new release wave also extends to the Destroyers and the Monolith. All three kits are well past their prime, and the Monolith especially is a bear to put together neatly. Once those three kits are redone, the range will be in a reasonably good place, and cohesive aesthetically.

I am extremely happy with the new monolith; the old monolith was already one of my favorite necron models and the new one is making arguments for my absolute favorite. Hopefully the rules are good enough that I can actually put one on the table...

 bullyboy wrote:
So, it looks like Necron codex will be very early.....so what the heck are they going to put in Pariah? Just the new Necron character, Stern and companion, plus Inquisitor? I do wonder if the news of 9th edition and recycling of codexes (inevitable) will dampen sales for the final 3 PA books. Engine War will probably sell well for Mech, but War of the Spyder? And Pariah?

Of course, we don't know when 9th will drop, probably end of summer, unless they put out the final 3 PA books within a 1 month time period.

Necron rules? Not like multiple books needed is uncommon or even undesirable for gw. Seeing it's valid in 9th stuff in pa9 and then codex. Il you get just codex miss stuff on pa. Win for gw

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd be pretty mad if a squad of 30 Plaguebearers that have been reduced to 8 models or so take more shots from a Battle Cannon than a 10-man MEQ squad.

Well ultimately the reason for changing the blast rule is to make weapons that are more efficient against chaff than elites so you might have to live with that realism discrepancy.

So why would my 8-point Plaguebearers be chaff that needs to be dealt with effectively, but a 9-point SoB isn't?

Tie it to squad size, please.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

They called out the frag missile as an example, I think it's more likely they'll get an extra D6 if the target unit is over 10 models. Or just do a flat 6/max shots.

I got the impression that a bast weapon targeting hordes would get the max shots; d6 becomes 6, d3 becomes 3, etc. Pretty big improvement, almost 50% increase to the attacks average!

My question is what defines a "horde". 10 models? 20 models? More than that? Can you get around this new rule with MSU? Does the size of the models themselves matter, or will 20 rubrics get hit as hard by blasts as 20 orks? Not making a judgement call on which answer to any of these questions is the "right" one but there's a lot of stuff we have no idea on here.

I would quess more than 10.

It's effect of hitting easily to big group of guys. Msu is expected to reduce. Like 7th ed and before it was big units and not msu that were vulnerable.

Same reason horde isn't keyword. Otherwise 5 boyz would be as easy to hit as 30 and easier than 5 terminators...

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think the Necron Warriors kit getting its first remake in what, 18 years? is genuinely a great thing, doubly so if the new release wave also extends to the Destroyers and the Monolith. All three kits are well past their prime, and the Monolith especially is a bear to put together neatly. Once those three kits are redone, the range will be in a reasonably good place, and cohesive aesthetically.

I am extremely happy with the new monolith; the old monolith was already one of my favorite necron models and the new one is making arguments for my absolute favorite. Hopefully the rules are good enough that I can actually put one on the table...

Let's hope so. Back in the day, it used to be hellaciously durable, after all.

I am not liking the idea that LOS ignoring Imperial Guard Artillery that can now fire whilst still in hand to hand combat has got better at units of 10 or more as well....

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Would definitely solve the problem of separating out "hordes" and elite infantry that fight in big groups. I like how this solution divorces the rule from model count too, makes it hit some of the weirder horde models like scarabs. Of course there's nothing but speculation on what they'll actually do for now.

So 5 boyz being just as easy for russ to hit as 30 is sensible for you?

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think the Necron Warriors kit getting its first remake in what, 18 years? is genuinely a great thing, doubly so if the new release wave also extends to the Destroyers and the Monolith. All three kits are well past their prime, and the Monolith especially is a bear to put together neatly. Once those three kits are redone, the range will be in a reasonably good place, and cohesive aesthetically.

Yeah, between new kits and remakes of the old kits (looks like a destroyer in the pixelated pic as well), the only real standout left is flayed ones. Others think they seem them in there, I legit can't tell. I hope so, because the finecast flayed ones are garbage.

But, this will put the necron line in really excellent shape. Not perfect, of course, but they seem to be trying to fill some gaps and produce interesting kits while updating the basic range, which is good to see for a xenos army.

Why is there a new edition?
Well, we want to rob your wallets again.

Can I use my old army?
Nope, trash the old stuff and buy everything from us again with zero discount.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Why is there a new edition?
Well, we want to rob your wallets again.

Can I use my old army?
Nope, trash the old stuff and buy everything from us again with zero discount.

Wow....ok.....

Thinking on it a little more, 'horde' makes more sense to kick in at 20. That's when poxwalkers, orks and daemons get more dangerous through weight of numbers.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I am not liking the idea that LOS ignoring Imperial Guard Artillery that can now fire whilst still in hand to hand combat has got better at units of 10 or more as well....

Well there's possibility of price up. Based on the faq i have suspicion they will do ca style points revamp on release.

I'm probably in a minority regarding this, but I hope that units are bought in 5/10s. So if you play MSU of a 5 man squad unit and want to upgrade it you only have the option of doing 5, 10, 15 or whatever the max is. Basically take cue from AoS in this regard.

Now, some people might say: "What if I can't get my army to 2000 points with that type of point scheme?" The answer is simple, the points leftover would be weapon upgrades. AoS offers Endless Spells or an Extra Command Point to fill in the last few points.

This way, if they tie horde to the number of models, they can avoid people taking units just under horde size. Because if Horde is at 20 for Ork Boyz then a player will just have 19 units to avoid the Horde rule. It just means people will game around the rule and you'll see ton of Horde-1 units.

This would be a moot point if units are getting horde typeword of course.