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A synergy of the system could be implemented though.

If a targets toughness is over double the weapons strength, wounds could be impossible again. Lasguns then could not damage dreadnaughts for example but a bolter could still.

Its not going to happen mind, but I think it should.

Some units would require toughness tweaks, for example Knights, you don't want them being harmed by bolters really etc etc so would need to go up to T9.

So, I'm wondering if we are going to get an article this Saturday, or they are just going to wait until Monday with the start of an article every

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
A synergy of the system could be implemented though.

If a targets toughness is over double the weapons strength, wounds could be impossible again. Lasguns then could not damage dreadnaughts for example but a bolter could still.

Its not going to happen mind, but I think it should.

Some units would require toughness tweaks, for example Knights, you don't want them being harmed by bolters really etc etc so would need to go up to T9.

One of the problems, I think, with inter-weapon balance in 8th is that the S-vs-T comparison is very gradual. It makes moderate-S, high-ROF weapons much more useful than single-shot high-S high-Dam weapons, because the somewhat reduced chance to wound is offset by more shots.

If I were writing the rules from scratch, I'd do something like:

Strength is double Toughness: Auto-wound
Strength is 2+ greater than Toughness: 2+
Strength is 1 greater than Toughness: 3+
Strength equals Toughness: 4+
Strength is 1 less than Toughness: 5+
Strength is 2+ less than Toughness: 6+
Strength is half Toughness: Cannot wound

So a lasgun would be wounding T4 on 5+, T5 on 6+, and against T6+ can't wound at all. Bolters would wound T4 on 4+, T5 on 5+, T6/7 on 6+, and couldn't wound T8 at all. Lascannons would zap T7 light vehicles on a 2+.

This is actually pretty close to how the old wounding table used to be.

But like you said, not going to happen.

The new assault Primaris marines with chainswords are the only Primaris marines that I'm actually tempted to buy.

Just for clarification can some one point to the "rule of 3" I can't find it.

 catbarf wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
A synergy of the system could be implemented though.

If a targets toughness is over double the weapons strength, wounds could be impossible again. Lasguns then could not damage dreadnaughts for example but a bolter could still.

Its not going to happen mind, but I think it should.

Some units would require toughness tweaks, for example Knights, you don't want them being harmed by bolters really etc etc so would need to go up to T9.

One of the problems, I think, with inter-weapon balance in 8th is that the S-vs-T comparison is very gradual. It makes moderate-S, high-ROF weapons much more useful than single-shot high-S high-Dam weapons, because the somewhat reduced chance to wound is offset by more shots.

If I were writing the rules from scratch, I'd do something like:

Strength is double Toughness: Auto-wound
Strength is 2+ greater than Toughness: 2+
Strength is 1 greater than Toughness: 3+
Strength equals Toughness: 4+
Strength is 1 less than Toughness: 5+
Strength is 2+ less than Toughness: 6+
Strength is half Toughness: Cannot wound

So a lasgun would be wounding T4 on 5+, T5 on 6+, and against T6+ can't wound at all. Bolters would wound T4 on 4+, T5 on 5+, T6/7 on 6+, and couldn't wound T8 at all. Lascannons would zap T7 light vehicles on a 2+.

This is actually pretty close to how the old wounding table used to be.

But like you said, not going to happen.

The problem with those tables always come with the realization that not all Tougthness values are equal so some strenght jumps are much relevant than others. And I mean, that problems also happens now, but at least the table is more simple.

Anyone else think that these new marines would look really good as DA?

I was considering making my UM into DA when Ritual of the Damned dropped but then stuck with UM. Now with all the gothic iconography and robes...

Plus those new veterans with storm shields modelled with DA hooded heads with Lazarus’ 5+++ aura and 3++ storm shield saves might be a nice little unit

Do we have a date when 9th is coming? Noticed that Dark Millenium and the rulebook has gone to "Last Chance to Buy", so seems it should be coming soon (July?).

Also, the Start Collecting for AdMech is unavailable - I'm wondering if they are going to swap out the contents in some way.

Which brings up another thought - I wonder if they are planning to change any of the datasheet that are packed with the models to 9th ed version if their rules are significantly changed.

 Stormonu wrote:
Do we have a date when 9th is coming? Noticed that Dark Millenium and the rulebook has gone to "Last Chance to Buy", so seems it should be coming soon (July?).

Also, the Start Collecting for AdMech is unavailable - I'm wondering if they are going to swap out the contents in some way.

Which brings up another thought - I wonder if they are planning to change any of the datasheet that are packed with the models to 9th ed version if their rules are significantly changed.

They told us last week it was going last chance to buy, no date yet but assumed July. They also confirmed the start collecting was changing to have the techpriest, 10 infantry and the transport last week.

They also confirmed that all current codex and publications are supported so wouldn't expect any changed datasheetz at this stage.

 Stormonu wrote:
Do we have a date when 9th is coming? Noticed that Dark Millenium and the rulebook has gone to "Last Chance to Buy", so seems it should be coming soon (July?).

No date yet, that isn't GW's way. But Engine War goes on preorder tomorrow (for release on the 6th), and they still need to squeeze out War of the Spider and Pariah, so the 27th is almost certainly the earliest the new edition could possibly be. (Though there should be various other releases either alongside the PA books or separately. The big question is if Cow Elves are supposed to come out before 9th or not. That would definitely push it into July.

Also, the Start Collecting for AdMech is unavailable - I'm wondering if they are going to swap out the contents in some way.

New start collecting box was already shown off on Sunday:
Skitarii squad, Enginseer and Tank/Transport. Biggest thing is no more Dominus, which means a lot of Ad Mech players will buy it on principle or out of sheer sobbing relief that a box set doesn't contain their third, fourth or fifth copy of the silly guy.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Just for clarification can some one point to the "rule of 3" I can't find it.

NVM I looked it up, it was added in the big faq 1 as a beta rule, but has since been replaced by big faq 2 and the rule no longer exists. you can look it up as well if you want to check the warhammer community faqs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jimbobbyish wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Just for clarification can some one point to the "rule of 3" I can't find it.

NVM I looked it up, it was added in the big faq 1 as a beta rule, but has since been replaced by big faq 2 and the rule no longer exists. you can look it up as well if you want to check the warhammer community faqs.

NVM the NVM found it in the core FAQ

My biggest problem with the rule of 3 is the inconsistency of its implementation. Why do IG get to have 3 tanks per slot but we only get 1 falcon body type tank per slot?

Jimbobbyish wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Just for clarification can some one point to the "rule of 3" I can't find it.

NVM I looked it up, it was added in the big faq 1 as a beta rule, but has since been replaced by big faq 2 and the rule no longer exists. you can look it up as well if you want to check the warhammer community faqs.

It's actually been in the Main Rulebook since Day 1. Page 214, Organised Events. The current version can be found on the last page of the Main Rulebook FAQ.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Anyone else think that these new marines would look really good as DA?

I was considering making my UM into DA when Ritual of the Damned dropped but then stuck with UM. Now with all the gothic iconography and robes...

Plus those new veterans with storm shields modelled with DA hooded heads with Lazarus’ 5+++ aura and 3++ storm shield saves might be a nice little unit

They look literally nothing like DA. For one, they don't wear dumb pajamas, or obsolete armour bits looking vaguely medieval-y (even the helmets fit BA/UM/BT much better), or spade-swords, or have obsession with plasma. The half-robes actually do look vaguely OK and funnily enough, like stuff UM already wear:


Then there is the whole funny issue of DA being closet traitors and almost zero Primaris being in their first company lest they expose all the crap, making the new unit terribad fit from fluff perspective too, but if you want to add it for gamey "I win" wombo combo reasons, sure, knock yourself out.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
After the excitement is wearing off, I am getting worried abot boltpistols blowing up tanks again. Ick. That always reminds me of the bridge science during Saving Private Ryan. If grots can't stop your tank, then they shoudn't be able to damage it without appropriate arms, either.

I do remember irritating a friend a long time ago, when I kept talking about how to design a tank-killing potato gun. I stole the idea of using bromine from my chem prof. Just hollow out the potato, put a flask of bromine in there, cap it, wrap it, and aim for something tender for the bromine to eat. Best I could do, but the very idea pissed him off.

I don't really want to go back to that system since it means having a tank one shotted by a good damage table roll.

Besides, there are parts of a tank that can be damaged by other weapons. Heck, get it to throw a track and it's a sitting duck.

Get it to throw a track with a service rifle and it is not a tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Conservative Heretic wrote:
The new assault Primaris marines with chainswords are the only Primaris marines that I'm actually tempted to buy.

Exactly right.

 jeff white wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
After the excitement is wearing off, I am getting worried abot boltpistols blowing up tanks again. Ick. That always reminds me of the bridge science during Saving Private Ryan. If grots can't stop your tank, then they shoudn't be able to damage it without appropriate arms, either.

I do remember irritating a friend a long time ago, when I kept talking about how to design a tank-killing potato gun. I stole the idea of using bromine from my chem prof. Just hollow out the potato, put a flask of bromine in there, cap it, wrap it, and aim for something tender for the bromine to eat. Best I could do, but the very idea pissed him off.

I don't really want to go back to that system since it means having a tank one shotted by a good damage table roll.

Besides, there are parts of a tank that can be damaged by other weapons. Heck, get it to throw a track and it's a sitting duck.

Get it to throw a track with a service rifle and it is not a tank.

Tracked vehicles throw tracks far more often than people think they do. It wasn't too uncommon when I was in an Mechanized Infantry Battalion for them to toss a track just being driven hard. Granted that's a Bradley and not a future space tank, but point stands, especially when the most common service weapon we see on the table in 40k is a .75cal RPG which could easilly damage the wheels on a tank, of the linkage on a track.

 Irbis wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Anyone else think that these new marines would look really good as DA?

I was considering making my UM into DA when Ritual of the Damned dropped but then stuck with UM. Now with all the gothic iconography and robes...

Plus those new veterans with storm shields modelled with DA hooded heads with Lazarus’ 5+++ aura and 3++ storm shield saves might be a nice little unit

They look literally nothing like DA. For one, they don't wear dumb pajamas, or obsolete armour bits looking vaguely medieval-y (even the helmets fit BA/UM/BT much better), or spade-swords, or have obsession with plasma. The half-robes actually do look vaguely OK and funnily enough, like stuff UM already wear:

Spoiler:

Then there is the whole funny issue of DA being closet traitors and almost zero Primaris being in their first company lest they expose all the crap, making the new unit terribad fit from fluff perspective too, but if you want to add it for gamey "I win" wombo combo reasons, sure, knock yourself out.

So swords and shields are non-medieval-y? OK.... And why not use them as Dark Angels Primaris Company Veterans? How is that unfluffy? Primaris have been fighting for a while now. I'd hardly call it a gamey wombo-combo.

I think I'll give it a whirl for my Dark Angels when the models/rules drop.

 Irbis wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Anyone else think that these new marines would look really good as DA?

I was considering making my UM into DA when Ritual of the Damned dropped but then stuck with UM. Now with all the gothic iconography and robes...

Plus those new veterans with storm shields modelled with DA hooded heads with Lazarus’ 5+++ aura and 3++ storm shield saves might be a nice little unit

They look literally nothing like DA. For one, they don't wear dumb pajamas, or obsolete armour bits looking vaguely medieval-y (even the helmets fit BA/UM/BT much better), or spade-swords, or have obsession with plasma. The half-robes actually do look vaguely OK and funnily enough, like stuff UM already wear:

Spoiler:

Then there is the whole funny issue of DA being closet traitors and almost zero Primaris being in their first company lest they expose all the crap, making the new unit terribad fit from fluff perspective too, but if you want to add it for gamey "I win" wombo combo reasons, sure, knock yourself out.

I sense some disdain for Dark Angels from this post but I'm not sure why...

 Irbis wrote:

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Anyone else think that these new marines would look really good as DA?

I was considering making my UM into DA when Ritual of the Damned dropped but then stuck with UM. Now with all the gothic iconography and robes...

Plus those new veterans with storm shields modelled with DA hooded heads with Lazarus’ 5+++ aura and 3++ storm shield saves might be a nice little unit

They look literally nothing like DA. For one, they don't wear dumb pajamas, or obsolete armour bits looking vaguely medieval-y (even the helmets fit BA/UM/BT much better), or spade-swords, or have obsession with plasma. The half-robes actually do look vaguely OK and funnily enough, like stuff UM already wear:

Spoiler:

Then there is the whole funny issue of DA being closet traitors and almost zero Primaris being in their first company lest they expose all the crap, making the new unit terribad fit from fluff perspective too, but if you want to add it for gamey "I win" wombo combo reasons, sure, knock yourself out.

Ok first of all, Primaris Marines have been around awhile. plemty of chances for dark angel primaris created by the dark angels to have grown up. they're not all Mars born (for the billion fething time)

Secondly we dunno how the sword guys will fit into dark angels orginization, remember though that dark angels have COMPANY veterns so they don't exactly have to be Deathwing. Veteran Primaris DAs is already a thing BTW they have the vetern intercessor strat.

 Galas wrote:

I sense some disdain for Dark Angels from this post but I'm not sure why...

It's very subtle but I'm picking it up as well now that you brought it up. Perhaps you're a latent psyker?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
After the excitement is wearing off, I am getting worried abot boltpistols blowing up tanks again. Ick. That always reminds me of the bridge science during Saving Private Ryan. If grots can't stop your tank, then they shoudn't be able to damage it without appropriate arms, either.

I do remember irritating a friend a long time ago, when I kept talking about how to design a tank-killing potato gun. I stole the idea of using bromine from my chem prof. Just hollow out the potato, put a flask of bromine in there, cap it, wrap it, and aim for something tender for the bromine to eat. Best I could do, but the very idea pissed him off.

I don't really want to go back to that system since it means having a tank one shotted by a good damage table roll.

Besides, there are parts of a tank that can be damaged by other weapons. Heck, get it to throw a track and it's a sitting duck.

Get it to throw a track with a service rifle and it is not a tank.

Tracked vehicles throw tracks far more often than people think they do. It wasn't too uncommon when I was in an Mechanized Infantry Battalion for them to toss a track just being driven hard. Granted that's a Bradley and not a future space tank, but point stands, especially when the most common service weapon we see on the table in 40k is a .75cal RPG which could easilly damage the wheels on a tank, of the linkage on a track.

Bolsters should just damage rear rhino armor iirc. Side armor ok. Sure... cuz tracks. But, against heavier tanks? Land raider that is a few thousand years old?

And grot blastas? No...just no.

Voss wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Do we have a date when 9th is coming? Noticed that Dark Millenium and the rulebook has gone to "Last Chance to Buy", so seems it should be coming soon (July?).

No date yet, that isn't GW's way. But Engine War goes on preorder tomorrow (for release on the 6th), and they still need to squeeze out War of the Spider and Pariah, so the 27th is almost certainly the earliest the new edition could possibly be. (Though there should be various other releases either alongside the PA books or separately. The big question is if Cow Elves are supposed to come out before 9th or not. That would definitely push it into July.

Also, the Start Collecting for AdMech is unavailable - I'm wondering if they are going to swap out the contents in some way.

New start collecting box was already shown off on Sunday:
Skitarii squad, Enginseer and Tank/Transport. Biggest thing is no more Dominus, which means a lot of Ad Mech players will buy it on principle or out of sheer sobbing relief that a box set doesn't contain their third, fourth or fifth copy of the silly guy.

What are Cow elves? Craftworld? Or Dark Eldar with a leather fetish?

Cow Elves is a cheeky name for the Lumineth Realmlords, because they have a massive goat-like 'construct' that the literal spirits of mountains are able to inhabit--and a unit from an elemental temple that accompanies it.

 jeff white wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
After the excitement is wearing off, I am getting worried abot boltpistols blowing up tanks again. Ick. That always reminds me of the bridge science during Saving Private Ryan. If grots can't stop your tank, then they shoudn't be able to damage it without appropriate arms, either.

I do remember irritating a friend a long time ago, when I kept talking about how to design a tank-killing potato gun. I stole the idea of using bromine from my chem prof. Just hollow out the potato, put a flask of bromine in there, cap it, wrap it, and aim for something tender for the bromine to eat. Best I could do, but the very idea pissed him off.

I don't really want to go back to that system since it means having a tank one shotted by a good damage table roll.

Besides, there are parts of a tank that can be damaged by other weapons. Heck, get it to throw a track and it's a sitting duck.

Get it to throw a track with a service rifle and it is not a tank.

Tracked vehicles throw tracks far more often than people think they do. It wasn't too uncommon when I was in an Mechanized Infantry Battalion for them to toss a track just being driven hard. Granted that's a Bradley and not a future space tank, but point stands, especially when the most common service weapon we see on the table in 40k is a .75cal RPG which could easilly damage the wheels on a tank, of the linkage on a track.

Bolsters should just damage rear rhino armor iirc. Side armor ok. Sure... cuz tracks. But, against heavier tanks? Land raider that is a few thousand years old?

And grot blastas? No...just no.

Unless we're putting vehicles on square bases I don't want to see facings to come back. Too many arguements about walker facings, much less Eldar and Tau tank facings.

 Stormonu wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Do we have a date when 9th is coming? Noticed that Dark Millenium and the rulebook has gone to "Last Chance to Buy", so seems it should be coming soon (July?).

No date yet, that isn't GW's way. But Engine War goes on preorder tomorrow (for release on the 6th), and they still need to squeeze out War of the Spider and Pariah, so the 27th is almost certainly the earliest the new edition could possibly be. (Though there should be various other releases either alongside the PA books or separately. The big question is if Cow Elves are supposed to come out before 9th or not. That would definitely push it into July.

Also, the Start Collecting for AdMech is unavailable - I'm wondering if they are going to swap out the contents in some way.

New start collecting box was already shown off on Sunday:
Skitarii squad, Enginseer and Tank/Transport. Biggest thing is no more Dominus, which means a lot of Ad Mech players will buy it on principle or out of sheer sobbing relief that a box set doesn't contain their third, fourth or fifth copy of the silly guy.

What are Cow elves? Craftworld? Or Dark Eldar with a leather fetish?

Kraftworld Eldar.

Lumineth Lords. The new high elves from AOS with a cow fetish

Soo, what are your thoughts on the new CP System? (Cp are linked to game size, every army gets the same amount to spent, Detachments no longer generate CP)

I fear the invalidation of troop choices for some armies. Why bring sth like a brigade or batallion if you just could bring way more "elite" or efficent units.

I mean Guardsmen will be a stable choice because you can use them as a meatshield for your tanks.

But some armies have quite mediocre / bad troops like Necrons. Other armies like Sisters of Battle could utilise stronger units than their standard sisters. I think of massed Celestials or Dominions - more or less same point costs but way better rules and equipment options.

You're assuming that you can just bring whatever you like with no penalties.

I won't be shocked of certain HQ choices 'unlock' certain units to count as Troops choices. We get that all the time in AoS--with some subfactions even changing Artillery or Behemoths into Battleline(Troops) choices.

 Conservative Heretic wrote:
The new assault Primaris marines with chainswords are the only Primaris marines that I'm actually tempted to buy.

So long overdue, even more so than devastator marines. Even just the running poses adds so much to how marines should look. I'm not a fan of literally every one of them in a full bore charging pose, that's a bit monotonous, but take some of these out and add them to bolter squads, replace them with some of the original, more static static Intercessoers armed with swords/pistols, and marine armies are finally once again looking how they should look .

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're assuming that you can just bring whatever you like with no penalties.

I won't be shocked of certain HQ choices 'unlock' certain units to count as Troops choices. We get that all the time in AoS--with some subfactions even changing Artillery or Behemoths into Battleline(Troops) choices.

Well afaik the detachments we have now are going to stay but loose their cp boni. This means Brigade gets pretty much invalidated.
Many troops are just tax right now to generate more cp to burn for the more elite choices. with fixed amounts of cp and most likely higher amounts of these cp you can burn more of them without the need of troops.
This could result in even higher alpha strike potential than we have now and much "killier" lists to be built