40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**ClockworkZion**

So my Chaos army might not get nearly as complete now that it seems running a Black Templar Primaris army might be viable.

On a different note, I hope that new Chaplain is called an "Executioner Chaplain".

**ClockworkZion**

JWBS wrote:
Looks to me from this image that they want a full body tabard, but the Primaris gorget makes it impractical / awkward-looking, so they just said "F it. Loin cloth isn't enough but we can't do full body either. Let's just add the torso component under the armour, defeating the purpose of aesthetics entirely, but showing that it's technically there".

I disagree. It looks fine to me as is. It's more as if they wear that tabard outside of the armour so it's sized smaller than one that's worn over the armour, hence it going under the bulkier chest armour.

**ClockworkZion**

alphaecho wrote:
Norchack wrote:
Soulless wrote:
So....Bikers....The silliest thing in 40k still present...

I've always wondered why everything in 40K has a group of people who hate it and feel the need to tell the rest of us.

Once I got past ripping holes in space to take shortcuts through a daemonic realm, the presence of bikes and swords alongside 8ft genocidal xenophobic warrior monks in power armour just kind of slides by. Silly is relative.

Then again, I've seen a quad bike mounted Chaplain (the bike was nicknamed 'God's Quad', see what he did there?) in the modern military so I have quite a wide scope before I consider things 'silly'.

You can tell who hasn't been around for a while since Calvary charges with actual horses is rather common in the setting as well. Less so on the table due to some OOP models, but Rough Riders used to be a staple of the Guard.

Frankly when you start your setting by deciding the best method of FTL is to send city sized churches through hell all arguments about the impractical or unnecessary become invalid.

**ClockworkZion**

Orks haven't been popular in sales, or even in collections, but they're probably the most popular Xenos race in terms of pure popularity with the fanbase.

**ClockworkZion**

bullyboy wrote:
JWBS wrote:
Looks to me from this image that they want a full body tabard, but the Primaris gorget makes it impractical / awkward-looking, so they just said "F it. Loin cloth isn't enough but we can't do full body either. Let's just add the torso component under the armour, defeating the purpose of aesthetics entirely, but showing that it's technically there".

So, the story goes...
Hold on, let me put down my shield so I can lift the flap of my holster to put away my Volkite....THEN I can pull my sword to duel. And people are worried more about bikes in space.....

The holster's flap isn't snapped or buckled, just push it open with the heel of your hand and then holster the pistol. I feel like people like to make everything more complicated than it actually is when this kind of thing comes up.

Like everyone who used to claim that Marines couldn't take off their helmets because they forgot your shoulders rotate and can let your hands reach your head without the pauldrons getting in the way.

**ClockworkZion**

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Ok time for a hot take, some will love it others will hate it and here it goes. We'll start with the positive.

Hearing in the laughably idiotic 9 things to love with a new edition video, new terrain rules. They can only really make terrain much better at this point, I look forward to this.

Our books aren't auto becoming worthless, I feel like they will be soon though so I'm not picking up anymore PA books for sure.

Finally an App for the game, could be good, could be money grubbing, I guess we will see I'm of mixed feelings.

Lastly, this could prove to be good if they actually change the game for the better. Having Sisters have such a key role, as they are hinting is also a good thing but feels more like a marketing push than any grand design.

Ok for the bad and this is larger.

That James Workshop 9 things to love video, was painfully terrible to watch. Why do they have to be so bad with this ? No one old enough to find that cool can afford to play this game, how bout we be treated like adults and not mindless hype hungry nub gubbins eh ?

The necrons skulls look like cartoon bad guys. We've gone from Terminators, to Ancient Egyptians in space to now Skeletor, by the power of Grey Skull.

I love that tanks will shoot out of combat and apparently not be bogged down anymore but this seems like an issue. As does focus on more flyer like flyers and Moar Command points ! It feels like idocricy the game where they doubled down on stupid over the top and each new box will come with some Brawndo.

The new Logo looks so bland and generic, it lost a lot of flavor and feels just as boring as a ham and american cheese sandwich with light mayo, so the perfect logo for the blandest of all, the Primaris Marines.

All the new books, and keep in mind they added new " crusade " content in them, I'm predicting the new codex drops will cost at minimum 50 USD, if not 60 as they use " crusade" stuff to bloat the books with crap few wanted in an attempt to tax you more. As if replacing the myriad of burn and churn hasn't already forced many to get hundreds of dollars in redundant books in short time frame. Can't wait to pay like 33% more per book, which isn't known but I have a guess it will be so.

Releasing a new edition now, after a price hike, when few will be able to even play seems as tone deaf and dumb as any company can be. I get they had this planned already but who is going to rush out to get these new books before they'll even be able to play any games and by the time they do the books will be invalidated most likely with pace of release ? Dumb dumb.

They are changing all the points around so even the current pace we kept up with if we did makes our books invalid for points, more dumb and annoying.

A promise of a year full of more Marines, forever Marines. With probably the same support for Necrons that Deathguard got when they shared the starter box which means at first, then a splash then the marine man train rolls ever forward.

They lied, again, on this last edition being a forever edition, with a living rules system, yeah it's no mystery at this point but some people do remember their half arsed promises and claims. At this point if they told me the sky was blue I'd need multiple reliable sources to be cited or I'd call them liar, and even then I'd still need to see it for myself.

All in all, I'm in fact not hyped, I'm just happy I got so few of these new books as they dropped and I feel bad for the people who did. This is a bad idea, full of lies and doubled down stupid promising nothing but a new age of more expensive burn and churn. All flash and no substance for a hyped reveal.

Pretty much sums up the new GW, a whole lot of promise and expectation but at the end of the day it's the same crap, at a faster pace, more expensive with less soul and more generic crap flavored with special new pointless James Workshop video cringe. The game itself is the fluffiest grim dark of cutesy we have even seen.

Okay, now try it again with about half the salt.

PA rules are going to be around until you get them rolled into an eventual codex update. For some armies that could be soon, but for most it's going to be a while. That makes those books valid. Plus some people collect those books for the lore and even make painting contest entries based on stuff they read in the lore. Rules are only half of GW's product and will only ever be half.

And as much as I didn't expect this to be 9th ed, I don't recall GW ever officially announcing no more editions. There were rumors, but it was never officially stated (if I'm wrong please provide proof so I can correct myself).

Basically you're making assumptions and getting mad because you assumed things that have no basis in facts.

**ClockworkZion**

Jacob29 wrote:
Do you think GW will ever slow down on Space Marine releases?

They had more than 2x the next faction to get models... its ridiculous.

Granted they are boomed, perhaps because of it? But it feels like such a waste.

Imagine the much better boxes we can have with say..

Dark Elves vs Guard
Eldar vs Necrons
Orks vs Tau

Rather than

Dark Elves vs Marines
Orks vs Marines
Necrons vs Marines

Starter boxes will always have Marines because Marines make up like 60% of all army sales (rough spitball number, point is they are SUPER popular). And we saw Eldar vs Dark Eldar and two flavors of Daemons in boxes just last year and they were basically ignored by most of the player base. It just doesn't work as a sales model.

And they have slowed down with Marines (last big release was Shadowspear at the end of last year) but a new edition means a new starter and it looks like said new starter is melee Marine focused.

**ClockworkZion**

The Newman wrote:

I'm honestly not sure if I like this model or not. I think it's the non-Intercessor style helmet that's putting me off.

I think that's a modified Crusader helm. That or a MKVIII helm.

**ClockworkZion**

MalusCalibur wrote:
With regards to the Necron spiderbot, I don't hate the idea of it - but the execution, as always with GW, is excessive and makes it look rather daft. There is a half-decent model buried under all that guff, though.
Here it is with a little surgery to 'de-GW' it:

The Warriors are rubbish - it never felt to me like a kit that needed redoing, I don't like the damaged parts making them seem even more 'space Undead', and I seem to be alone in really liking the green rods and being incredibly disappointed to see them get phased out (har har).

I couldn't care less about the endless supply of marines or the Necron shelf diorama.

The Warriors were from 3rd ed and were fiddly messes that were easy to pose badly. Plus the molds wear down over time and the flash gets worse.

**ClockworkZion**

Arachnofiend wrote:

You are being awfully generous, especially given that their financial slump was caused in part due to a fixation on the best selling space marines, to the point where they had to take over Fantasy too. GW looks at the numbers, sees that space marines sell and Eldar don't, and assume that's because everyone likes Space Marines and hate Eldar and not because Space Marines have nice new models and Eldar don't.

I think in more recent years (GSC release onward) GW has done a better job of listening to fan sentiment as much as the raw numbers, which is why we're getting reboots of more niche factions that are proving far less niche than GW may have thought.

Your hyperbole about the Marines is adorable. No, Kirby was pushing the company to push models over all else leading to WFB to have a massive hurdle to entry due to needing over a hundred models just to play small games. Not to mention the old grognards rarely buy models meaning that when the new players dry up the game starts dying.

They also pushed models with knowingly broken rules. Look at the Wraithknigjt launch.

AoS is doing better than WFB had since 7th, and Primaris avoid an old problem that comes from rebooting a model line: even old players have to buy stuff to play them.

Consideting the record profits since Roundtree took over it's clear that it's not "too many Marines", it was poor community engagement and pushing the idea of collections over actual games worth playing.

**ClockworkZion**

Theory: blast weapons will let damage roll over to other models like mortal wounds.

**ClockworkZion**

bullyboy wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

And you're comparing a troops slot to an elite slot. Which do you need to buy more kits of? Because that's how GW has always priced models: on how many times you'd need to buy the kit.

Putting Marines in the starter appeals to the largest player base and makes it more appealing to new players. Complaining about Marines in the box is like complaining water is wet.

**ClockworkZion**

Strg Alt wrote:
Why is there a new edition?
Well, we want to rob your wallets again.

Can I use my old army?
Nope, trash the old stuff and buy everything from us again with zero discount.

The edition is updating the core rules and does nothing to invalidate army rules. Your insistence on being mad about things that aren't even true is just laughable.

**ClockworkZion**

JNAProductions wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
Jacob29 wrote:

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

And you're comparing a troops slot to an elite slot. Which do you need to buy more kits of? Because that's how GW has always priced models: on how many times you'd need to buy the kit.

Putting Marines in the starter appeals to the largest player base and makes it more appealing to new players. Complaining about Marines in the box is like complaining water is wet.
I question the bolded bit.

It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.

**ClockworkZion**

So I noticed something, is it just me or is that a unit of Gravis armour guys with some kind of Melta gun?

**ClockworkZion**

JNAProductions wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.
Established by who? Did you run a study on it?

Now you're just trying to claim some kind of authority on the subject.

Marines have been the driving force of 40k for a long time. They've always made up more sales, even when we didn't see updates for them very often, and most players have at least one Marine army sitting around (if they're not actively playing it). You can quibble all you want but Marines are popular. More popular than every other army combined. It's in GW's best interest to put Marines in a starter box because of that.

**ClockworkZion**

Kanluwen wrote:
Correct. They're seemingly the "Hellfuries" that we had namedropped with the new Codex.

That would make sense actually.

**ClockworkZion**

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Looks like the veterans have a storm shield, power sword, and volkite pistol of some sort.

That's a LT. It looks like there is a Captain with the shield with a skeleton on it, and a unit of 3 with a Veteran SGT:

**ClockworkZion**

Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

**ClockworkZion**

JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.

The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Or that the Sisters codex is completely compatible with 9th and was designed with that edition in mind.
So the Sisters 'dex has the new "blast" rule?

Latro_ wrote:
Higher res of marine stuff if not already posted
I'm dubious that this is the actual Marine starter set. The last time GW put out a big box the Marine side had 10 guys and Ragnar. This one appears to have 10 Marines, 3 Shield Vets, 3 Agressor Devs, 3 Bikers, a Lieutenant, a Chaplain, an Ancient, a Captain and the Executioner guy. That's... a lot more.

Sisters never had blast weapons in the past. Not giving them back wouldn't be a shock.

That said, it's likely a one line errata to give it to the anti-personnel missiles.

**ClockworkZion**

BrianDavion wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:So I notice sisters of battle are one of the featured factions. makes me wonder if they are indeed doing two boxes. one with marines the others with sisters.

insaniak wrote:More likely to be a mixed force in the one starter, I would think.

Or that the Sisters codex is completely compatible with 9th and was designed with that edition in mind.

that's an intreasting idea. could be we've already GOT 9th edition codices with marines and sisters

What would make them 9th editionish though. Mono bonus when 9th core rule already promotes mono?

well we where told they where designed with 9th in mind so.. *shrugs*

Other way around: they designed 9th with them in mind. Which means less "sucks in both editions" stuff that being designed for two editions tends to do to books. In theory at least.

**ClockworkZion**

Dysartes wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

Wouldn't that be likely to interfere with some of the interface between the armour and the Black Carapace, though?

Over the soft armour (which I assume is more like a bodysuit) and under the chestplate which doesn't need direct connectors seems about right.

**ClockworkZion**

I was listening to a podcast last night and they brought up how GW has been trying to streamline the game for years so it's less of a time commitment to play (usually through optional rules no one uses), and they mentioned that the game could see a shift in table size used to 3x5 which matches the dimensions of a kitchen table bought commerically, like from Ikea.

Now if they basically give everything a massive points hike, and decrease the table size the game could end up faster at the same points level we play at now just because we'll be taking something like 25% less stuff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
That model is part of the boxed set that is forthcoming, Iluminor Szeras is slated to be out before that.

I have a sneaking suspicion, 9th edition may launch with Pariah, considering the main factions of Pariah are lining up with the start box and/or the trailer yesterday.

Illuminor could be a dual kit still, and the model above could just be the ETB version.

It may launch around the same time or later, but I don't know of any 40k character model that's a dual kit.

Excluding the Daemons, but that's more of an AoS thing.

**ClockworkZion**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I was listening to a podcast last night and they brought up how GW has been trying to streamline the game for years so it's less of a time commitment to play (usually through optional rules no one uses), and they mentioned that the game could see a shift in table size used to 3x5 which matches the dimensions of a kitchen table bought commerically, like from Ikea.

Now if they basically give everything a massive points hike, and decrease the table size the game could end up faster at the same points level we play at now just because we'll be taking something like 25% less stuff.

I watched a video this morning where they described how deployment/missions works in AoS, in that no set table size is stated, just distance between deployment zone. So if the table was 2x2, 4x6 etc etc, the deployment zone size changes with the board size, but the distance between deployment zones does not.

so on a 3x2 board, a 24" gap between deployment will be stated where you get a very small deployment area, but the same mission on a larger board would give you a larger deployment zone. How it was sold to me then is, it allows for difference in table size, and even shape, you could play on a circular table then in theory as long as the set distance is able to be accounted for.

I use to live in a flat where there was absolutely no way we could have played a 6x4 game, ever, there wasn't the room unless we went to the trouble of buying a folding table, and that still was an issue for storage, set board sizes needs to disappear from the game rules, its only relevant/required for tournament play.

That would be a sensible approach as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I was listening to a podcast last night and they brought up how GW has been trying to streamline the game for years so it's less of a time commitment to play (usually through optional rules no one uses), and they mentioned that the game could see a shift in table size used to 3x5 which matches the dimensions of a kitchen table bought commerically, like from Ikea.

Now if they basically give everything a massive points hike, and decrease the table size the game could end up faster at the same points level we play at now just because we'll be taking something like 25% less stuff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
That model is part of the boxed set that is forthcoming, Iluminor Szeras is slated to be out before that.

I have a sneaking suspicion, 9th edition may launch with Pariah, considering the main factions of Pariah are lining up with the start box and/or the trailer yesterday.

Illuminor could be a dual kit still, and the model above could just be the ETB version.

It may launch around the same time or later, but I don't know of any 40k character model that's a dual kit.

Excluding the Daemons, but that's more of an AoS thing.

There's loads, DA captain from psychic awakening is one just off the top of my head. Isn't the current necron C'tan monolith thing one as well?

The C'Tan isn't a named character.

And I'm pretty sure while you -can- use that Captain as a generic model, he's a named character.

**ClockworkZion**

The Newman wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I was listening to a podcast last night and they brought up how GW has been trying to streamline the game for years so it's less of a time commitment to play (usually through optional rules no one uses), and they mentioned that the game could see a shift in table size used to 3x5 which matches the dimensions of a kitchen table bought commerically, like from Ikea.

Now if they basically give everything a massive points hike, and decrease the table size the game could end up faster at the same points level we play at now just because we'll be taking something like 25% less stuff.

Hahahhahahhhahahahah!!!

*snort*
*chuckle chuckle*
*wheeze*
*several knee slaps*

That's a good one.

The game is getting a points readjustment. The best time to do a points hike would be at the launch of a new edition.

You're laughing, but GW has likely learned from WFB's death and knows they can't attract new players into a game where people play 100+ models at the normal game size.

**ClockworkZion**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Can’t we just lower the points limit of games?

That doesn't seem to work since when's the last time you've seen people willingly take -less- of their toys?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sqorgar wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Now if they basically give everything a massive points hike, and decrease the table size the game could end up faster at the same points level we play at now just because we'll be taking something like 25% less stuff.
They could even make an announcement like, "we're increasing point values on June 1st" to give you a week to play with the old point values before you can only afford 25% less models in your army.

Not likely, but they mentioned rather clearly that they're changing points costs in the reveal.

**ClockworkZion**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also smaller games doesn't create any better balance. Broken units are broken at any game size. IGOUGO has always exacerbated that, much to the dismay of its defenders for whatever reason.

They've claimed they've fixed the smaller game issue, but we'll see.

Who knows, maybe the game will work like Apoc and it'll be alternating activations with casualties only removed at the end of the game turn.

**ClockworkZion**

So it's interesting to see that the Bladeguard Veterans are going to be hitting with D2 swords.

And since the big walker has a Cantopek face, I'm guessing it'll get that keyword.

**ClockworkZion**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
So does this mean the Spindle Drones get the Necron keyword looking at the new big Necron stuff?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GaroRobe wrote:

Okay, so how does this guys coat work? The left side of it is unbuttoned and coming down. But does his arm go through it? How does he put on his cloak?
EDIT: Never mind. He's got a sleeve

Was he in a hurry to get dressed - I like the model apart from that - its just odd - also Would make a cool Lord Castelant

Personally I just can't wait to see what rules he gets to make him like 100× better than the Executioner that CSM has!

You mean other than doctrines and Chapter Tactics?

**ClockworkZion**

bfdhud wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
So does this mean the Spindle Drones get the Necron keyword looking at the new big Necron stuff?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GaroRobe wrote:

Okay, so how does this guys coat work? The left side of it is unbuttoned and coming down. But does his arm go through it? How does he put on his cloak?
EDIT: Never mind. He's got a sleeve

Was he in a hurry to get dressed - I like the model apart from that - its just odd - also Would make a cool Lord Castelant

He doesn't have a pauldron on the left arm. I think that's the idea. The cloak won't stay up because he doesn't have the shoulder pad.

It's a coat, not a cloak.