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 dadamowsky wrote:
DW is hardly a faction to begin with... I don't quite get it why haven't they been merged with Inqs.

How do you define a "Faction" - we have entire races of countless entities spread across the entire galaxy and beyond or........... just over a thousand Wulf or Blood Marines

There is no real logic - some of it is historical, some of it what sells and some of it Status

GW hasn’t leaked any particulars yet though right? Like how exactly CP is supposed to work in the new edition or how terrain is supposed to matter now? And one thing that troubles me is that I am a nerd that wants flamers to be cool again but they seemed to have mentioned only blast weapons getting a buff and not flamers... so those still seem like they are going to be sucktastic.

macluvin wrote:
GW hasn’t leaked any particulars yet though right? Like how exactly CP is supposed to work in the new edition or how terrain is supposed to matter now? And one thing that troubles me is that I am a nerd that wants flamers to be cool again but they seemed to have mentioned only blast weapons getting a buff and not flamers... so those still seem like they are going to be sucktastic.

Nothing on Flamers sadly

They implied in the vids that everyone gets the same number of CPs and you can spend it to increase your options - so it costs CP to add in A guard 32 or equivalent now rather than the opposite.

Terrain is supposed to do more - but we donlt know how.

I hope that the blast mechanic is made simply for hordes and nothing else. I can understand that a few cultists holding up a Baneblade is ridiculous, but I hope that this doesn't affect large melee units like Maulerfiends, as it would drastically cut down on the anti-tank potential of units made specifically to attack tanks.

macluvin wrote:
GW hasn’t leaked any particulars yet though right? Like how exactly CP is supposed to work in the new edition or how terrain is supposed to matter now? And one thing that troubles me is that I am a nerd that wants flamers to be cool again but they seemed to have mentioned only blast weapons getting a buff and not flamers... so those still seem like they are going to be sucktastic.

Flamers will likely depend upon the New Terrain Rules and how Flamers interact with those. Also the points changrs they have already admitted will be needed for the edition change.

I thought they had explained CP you get and amount (apparently based on game size) then spend it for additional detachments and codex's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I hope that the blast mechanic is made simply for hordes and nothing else. I can understand that a few cultists holding up a Baneblade is ridiculous, but I hope that this doesn't affect large melee units like Maulerfiends, as it would drastically cut down on the anti-tank potential of units made specifically to attack tanks.

That's going to depend on what GW define as a Hored.

Aditionally I suspect they may have to restat and FAQ a few units as part of the edition change as it seems they are finally admitting to themselves some of their 8th edition bandaids didn't work.

Not a fan of tanks getting more freedom to continue firing. Obviously waiting to see if there are enough melee buffs to counter yet another shooting advantage.

This is going to be expensive. So many things I really like in these pictures. Well, at least I don't need to replace my Necron Warriors. Yea, there's a bit of extra detail in the new ones, but not enough to make me want to replace mine, especially given the simple conversion work I've already done.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Nothing on Flamers sadly

They implied in the vids that everyone gets the same number of CPs and you can spend it to increase your options - so it costs CP to add in A guard 32 or equivalent now rather than the opposite.

Terrain is supposed to do more - but we donlt know how.

...that change to Command points is great for mono-factions who struggled to have any, but how is that going to work for the ones who had plenty. oh. for the idea i had it means i lose points to get more orders...

So I guess it's time to shelve the tau then.

Going by what's been "revealed" you get a set number of CP based on the points of the game. It has been inferred that the first detachment is free, but if you want additional detachments it costs you CP, more if it's from a different key word.

Tau only get one commander per detachment, so it's going to cost Tau CP in order to field their HQ choices that everyone else gets for free?!

Blast weapons look interesting, I can only hope that it has an opposite and it does minimum hits against small units ie units with only one model in it.

Waiting for Tuesday, it was Tuesday they said wasnt it?, for the rules discussion.

Andrew

 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:
More like Teencrons, you know those awkward years where puberty starts kicking in and your body changes.

Man, I hope this doesn't stick

 AndrewC wrote:
So I guess it's time to shelve the tau then.

Going by what's been "revealed" you get a set number of CP based on the points of the game. It has been inferred that the first detachment is free, but if you want additional detachments it costs you CP, more if it's from a different key word.

Tau only get one commander per detachment, so it's going to cost Tau CP in order to field their HQ choices that everyone else gets for free?!

Blast weapons look interesting, I can only hope that it has an opposite and it does minimum hits against small units ie units with only one model in it.

Waiting for Tuesday, it was Tuesday they said wasnt it?, for the rules discussion.

Andrew

Tuesday is an FAQ/QA session. We won't likely get full details. What changes come out might well come with an errata of changes to existing codex to make them compatible in advance of codex updates. So Tau might get a patch so that their current codex continues to function at a practical level.

It's far too early to panic about new rules and changes when we've only got hints and basic details of some changes in total isolation from the games core rules and all the other changes.

 bullyboy wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

And you're comparing a troops slot to an elite slot. Which do you need to buy more kits of? Because that's how GW has always priced models: on how many times you'd need to buy the kit.

Putting Marines in the starter appeals to the largest player base and makes it more appealing to new players. Complaining about Marines in the box is like complaining water is wet.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

And you're comparing a troops slot to an elite slot. Which do you need to buy more kits of? Because that's how GW has always priced models: on how many times you'd need to buy the kit.

Putting Marines in the starter appeals to the largest player base and makes it more appealing to new players. Complaining about Marines in the box is like complaining water is wet.

I question the bolded bit.

 AndrewC wrote:
So I guess it's time to shelve the tau then.

Going by what's been "revealed" you get a set number of CP based on the points of the game. It has been inferred that the first detachment is free, but if you want additional detachments it costs you CP, more if it's from a different key word.

Tau only get one commander per detachment, so it's going to cost Tau CP in order to field their HQ choices that everyone else gets for free?!

Blast weapons look interesting, I can only hope that it has an opposite and it does minimum hits against small units ie units with only one model in it.

Waiting for Tuesday, it was Tuesday they said wasnt it?, for the rules discussion.

Andrew

My guess is that the tau commanders will get rebuffed and that won't be an issue.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Why is there a new edition?
Well, we want to rob your wallets again.

Can I use my old army?
Nope, trash the old stuff and buy everything from us again with zero discount.

The edition is updating the core rules and does nothing to invalidate army rules. Your insistence on being mad about things that aren't even true is just laughable.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

Honestly I can't tell if Wrath and Raptuer barely sold or if GW produced way more for it (or even have continued production) because it was cross-game (40K and AoS) compatible. I know that both armies are very popular in AoS, even if the AoS Slaanesh army doesn't really make heavy use of the new fiends (they are stuck in the whole depravity problem that they aren't bad for their points, but they don't generate depravity so when push comes to shove many would rather use those points for leaders instead of fiends). It might be that its sold good numbers, just not insane numbers.

 Overread wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
So I guess it's time to shelve the tau then.

Going by what's been "revealed" you get a set number of CP based on the points of the game. It has been inferred that the first detachment is free, but if you want additional detachments it costs you CP, more if it's from a different key word.

Tau only get one commander per detachment, so it's going to cost Tau CP in order to field their HQ choices that everyone else gets for free?!

Blast weapons look interesting, I can only hope that it has an opposite and it does minimum hits against small units ie units with only one model in it.

Waiting for Tuesday, it was Tuesday they said wasnt it?, for the rules discussion.

Andrew

Tuesday is an FAQ/QA session. We won't likely get full details. What changes come out might well come with an errata of changes to existing codex to make them compatible in advance of codex updates. So Tau might get a patch so that their current codex continues to function at a practical level.

It's far too early to panic about new rules and changes when we've only got hints and basic details of some changes in total isolation from the games core rules and all the other changes.

I agree full details wont be forthcoming until much further down the line. But what has been dropped does not bode well for some factions. I like the idea that CP becomes a currency for expanding your army to include cool stuff what I dont like is the possibility that some armies will have to spend CP just to keep key units.

As you say we have to wait and see on Tuesday for what is said/revealed. They sky is not falling, but forgive me if I buy an umbrella.

Andrew

 Breotan wrote:
This is going to be expensive. So many things I really like in these pictures. Well, at least I don't need to replace my Necron Warriors. Yea, there's a bit of extra detail in the new ones, but not enough to make me want to replace mine, especially given the simple conversion work I've already done.

That's a really sweet conversion.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

If you include marines in 80% of your starter boxes obviously they will be the majority of the sales....???

Yes we saw an eldar vs Dark Eldar box.. which is categorically overpriced and included super old models? Not really fair to compare this?

edit: also.. Marines have received more than double NEW models relative to the 2nd highest. So again... new models sell the model, marines received the most... no duh they sell the most?

Not only that but you then release a box of 5 banshees for $55, yet are selling 10 Primaris infantry for $60. But Eldar sales are bad......ya think? Yes, I know Elimiantors are a thing...but at least you could get them through a starter set reasonably cheap, and probably wanted the other aspects of that box. Same can't be said for the Banshees.
I was at the store the other day and almost bought a box of banshees, then I realized I'd need 2......so I bought a box of battle Sisters instead. Go figure.

Forgebane, and Wrath & Rapture both exist as well and I recall the latter barely sold.

And you're comparing a troops slot to an elite slot. Which do you need to buy more kits of? Because that's how GW has always priced models: on how many times you'd need to buy the kit.

Putting Marines in the starter appeals to the largest player base and makes it more appealing to new players. Complaining about Marines in the box is like complaining water is wet.

I question the bolded bit.

It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.

Established by who? Did you run a study on it?

So I noticed something, is it just me or is that a unit of Gravis armour guys with some kind of Melta gun?

Correct. They're seemingly the "Hellfuries" that we had namedropped with the new Codex.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.

Established by who? Did you run a study on it?

Now you're just trying to claim some kind of authority on the subject.

Marines have been the driving force of 40k for a long time. They've always made up more sales, even when we didn't see updates for them very often, and most players have at least one Marine army sitting around (if they're not actively playing it). You can quibble all you want but Marines are popular. More popular than every other army combined. It's in GW's best interest to put Marines in a starter box because of that.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think special Marines get to complain that hard. Not compared to what Xenos and to a lesser extent Chaos get shafted with.

You having a laugh? Or posting from some bizarro world opposite to reality?

Let's see, Chaos, in case you were blind and deaf last 5 years or so, received gigantic pile of models and revamp of no less than TEN armies across both systems, plus Warcry, plus majority of models in BSF. Chaos at this point is cancer that took so many release slots barring potentially far more interesting things that only someone utterly insane can say something about lack of releases, even half of what they got would have been plenty.

Xenos, too, got dozens of releases across the same period - remember orktober? The release xenos players whined was 'small'? Guess what, it's bigger than the whole DW range. Remember GSC? The faction that debuted alongside DW? Since then, GSC got three major releases. DW? ZERO. Yup, three major releases, each one bigger than DW range, is being 'shafted'. For a whiny kid who is never satisfied even if GW dedicated 100% of output to his personal army, maybe.

And to make matters even funnier, remember Vanguard marines? Perfect fit for DW, operating in the same style? Even though it was not DW release, it could have been a token scrap thrown to DW if the army got rules for them - except, hahaha, nope. So, yeah, maybe in your reality getting hundred+ releases for chaos/xeno armies in the same period DW got big fat ZERO is being 'shafted' - so I hope you will get your wish and all armies you play will get same zero releases over next decade, plus gak rule writer DW have. After all, you said it won't be a cause for complain, eh?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Correct. They're seemingly the "Hellfuries" that we had namedropped with the new Codex.

That would make sense actually.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It's been well established that Marines sell the game to a majority of players, even if it didn't sell it to you personally.

Established by who? Did you run a study on it?

Now you're just trying to claim some kind of authority on the subject.

Marines have been the driving force of 40k for a long time. They've always made up more sales, even when we didn't see updates for them very often, and most players have at least one Marine army sitting around (if they're not actively playing it). You can quibble all you want but Marines are popular. More popular than every other army combined. It's in GW's best interest to put Marines in a starter box because of that.

I'm not. But you are-neither of us warrant that.

Irbis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think special Marines get to complain that hard. Not compared to what Xenos and to a lesser extent Chaos get shafted with.

You having a laugh? Or posting from some bizarro world opposite to reality?

Let's see, Chaos, in case you were blind and deaf last 5 years or so, received gigantic pile of models and revamp of no less than TEN armies across both systems, plus Warcry, plus majority of models in BSF. Chaos at this point is cancer that took so many release slots barring potentially far more interesting things that only someone utterly insane can say something about lack of releases, even half of what they got would have been plenty.

Xenos, too, got dozens of releases across the same period - remember orktober? The release xenos players whined was 'small'? Guess what, it's bigger than the whole DW range. Remember GSC? The faction that debuted alongside DW? Since then, GSC got three major releases. DW? ZERO. Yup, three major releases, each one bigger than DW range, is being 'shafted'. For a whiny kid who is never satisfied even if GW dedicated 100% of output to his personal army, maybe.

And to make matters even funnier, remember Vanguard marines? Perfect fit for DW, operating in the same style? Even though it was not DW release, it could have been a token scrap thrown to DW if the army got rules for them - except, hahaha, nope. So, yeah, maybe in your reality getting hundred+ releases for chaos/xeno armies in the same period DW got big fat ZERO is being 'shafted' - so I hope you will get your wish and all armies you play will get same zero releases over next decade, plus gak rule writer DW have. After all, you said it won't be a cause for complain, eh?

Yeah, Deathwatch have gotten shafted. Course, they can still ally in with regular Marines.

But you're comparing vast swathes of Xenos or Chaos to one specific Marine Chapter. Nurgle Daemons, my main, have gotten since 8th dropped...

The updated GUO
Two new Heralds
A tree
Beasts of Nurgle-forgot these initially
Two unique characters, one GUO, one Herald

That's it. Whereas Marines got... Well, literally everything Primaris.

 AndrewC wrote:


I agree full details wont be forthcoming until much further down the line. But what has been dropped does not bode well for some factions. I like the idea that CP becomes a currency for expanding your army to include cool stuff what I dont like is the possibility that some armies will have to spend CP just to keep key units.

As you say we have to wait and see on Tuesday for what is said/revealed. They sky is not falling, but forgive me if I buy an umbrella.

Andrew

Sounds amazing to me. Less spam and paying a cost to soup? Two thumbs up if true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
[
But you're comparing vast swathes of Xenos or Chaos to one specific Marine Chapter. Nurgle Daemons, my main, have gotten since 8th dropped...

The updated GUO
Two new Heralds
A tree
Two unique characters, one GUO, one Herald

And that's quite a lot for one specific mini faction that's a quarter of one codex. Most factions (even in the same codex or related codexes) haven't been treated nearly so generously.

Voss wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:


I agree full details wont be forthcoming until much further down the line. But what has been dropped does not bode well for some factions. I like the idea that CP becomes a currency for expanding your army to include cool stuff what I dont like is the possibility that some armies will have to spend CP just to keep key units.

As you say we have to wait and see on Tuesday for what is said/revealed. They sky is not falling, but forgive me if I buy an umbrella.

Andrew

Sounds amazing to me. Less spam and paying a cost to soup? Two thumbs up if true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
[
But you're comparing vast swathes of Xenos or Chaos to one specific Marine Chapter. Nurgle Daemons, my main, have gotten since 8th dropped...

The updated GUO
Two new Heralds
A tree
Two unique characters, one GUO, one Herald

And that's quite a lot for one specific mini faction that's a quarter of one codex. Most factions (even in the same codex or related codexes) haven't been treated nearly so generously.

Did Beasts Nurgle come out in 8th as well?


IIRC some years ago there was some GW insider or something that mentioned that Space Marines were around 60-70% of total Sales at GW. This was a while ago, and I doubt it's that high now a days with the success of AoS, but at the time it did highlight the disparity among the ranges.

Ah, Beasts of Nurgle too. That's my bad!

I just forget about them because they're so, SO BAD.

 vipoid wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
This is going to be expensive. So many things I really like in these pictures. Well, at least I don't need to replace my Necron Warriors. Yea, there's a bit of extra detail in the new ones, but not enough to make me want to replace mine, especially given the simple conversion work I've already done.

That's a really sweet conversion.

Looks a lot like the conversion GW did for the Mephrit Dynasty models for the Baal: Exterminatus book and featured in the 13 December 2014 White Dwarf Weekly