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2020/07/01 17:30:55
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Hmm...ok...so points are "free" and its just the tournament crowd buying those books.
2020/07/01 17:31:58
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
yukishiro1 wrote: It's a pretty safe bet that whatever options GW gives you for buying their new stuff, there isn't going to be one that's a lot cheaper than the others. The idea that they're going to release a free digital points update, for example, is a bit fanciful. GW isn't in the business of free.
I am not suggesting they should be. There is a huge difference between fixing a mistake and charging the customer for one though. GW has always sucked royally at PR and building good will.
Kdash wrote: So, whilst being able to use Magnus and then get the battlion for free, i for one will probably never ever do this outside of a very fluffy, friendly list.
Magnus can put in work, but, i'd never use him as my warlord in a serious game.
I'm stupid enough to give it a go.
2020/07/01 17:35:56
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/07/01 17:39:53
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Hmm...ok...so points are "free" and its just the tournament crowd buying those books.
I will be the first to salute GW if they finally stop charging for points. But I'll have to see it to believe it. An app doesn't mean it's free, it could mean for example that you get the new points for the army builder only if you buy the CA2020 book, or it could have a monthly fee for that feature, or something like that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/01 17:40:43
2020/07/01 17:44:48
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/01 17:56:55
2020/07/01 17:58:01
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/07/01 17:59:56
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
Nah, 40k works perfect for narrative. Remember all those times that AdMech would get T1 and shoot a bunch of Tau off the table and they don't shoot back for some inexplicable reason? OH and remember how it was super in fluff for certain units to not be equivalent in points because that's not how a narrative is forged, because heaven forbid Gaunts be able to do anything close to what Infantry can do!
Narrative people can make up whatever they want, regardless of a tight rule set. A tight rule set means they don't have to do GW's job for a good game though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/07/01 18:10:02
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
Nah, 40k works perfect for narrative. Remember all those times that AdMech would get T1 and shoot a bunch of Tau off the table and they don't shoot back for some inexplicable reason? OH and remember how it was super in fluff for certain units to not be equivalent in points because that's not how a narrative is forged, because heaven forbid Gaunts be able to do anything close to what Infantry can do!
Narrative people can make up whatever they want, regardless of a tight rule set. A tight rule set means they don't have to do GW's job for a good game though.
Remember when Skitarii would have their tireless march represented on the tabletop via the Scout rule?
Wonder how they transferred that to 8th...
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/07/01 18:10:45
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
M8" WS4+ BS4+ S5 T5 W6 A4 LD10 SV3+
Atomiser (he got those 2x) 12" Assault 3 S6 AP-2 D1
Melee S user AP-2 D1
living metal
in your command phase, select a friendly dynasty unit within 9" of this model, add 1 to reanimation protocoll rolls for that unit
last is necron warriors and scarabs, profiles havent changed, warriors only got that one new weapon that was allready leaked.
Destroyer lord & Overlord stuff:
h e got a trachionarrow 120" assault 1 S12 Ap-5 D D6 one use only and
Hyperphase Scythe S+2 AP-3 D D3
Skorpekh Lord
M8" WS2+ BS2+ S6 T6 W6 A4 LD10 SV3+
Anihilator: 19" Assault 2d3 S6 Ap-1 D1 Explosive (the new auto hit mechanic vs hordes)
Claws: S user Ap-1 D1 can do 2 attack rolls instead of 1 for each attack
Scythe S+2 AP-4 D3 -1 to hit
living metal
friendly destructor cult units within 6" gain reroll 1 on wound rolls
4+ invul
he can reroll hit rolls of 1
skorpekh destructors
M8" WS3+ BS3+ S5 T5 W3 A3 LD10 SV3+
Plasmacyte:
M8" WS4+ BS4+ S4 T5 W1 A1 LD10 SV4+
Their Twin CC weapons: Suser AP-3 D2 the user can make 1 additional attack with that weapon
Their big CC weapon S+2 AP-4 D3
Plasmacyte: Suser AP-1 D1
reanimation protocolls (see codex necrons)
weapon infusion. if a unit has a plasmacite it can roll a d6 at the start of the close combat phase. if a 1 is rolled, 1 destructor gets removed. in any case the whole unit gains +1S and +1A
they all can reroll hit rolls of 1
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/01 18:11:48
The Circle of Iniquity The Fourth Seal
2020/07/01 18:11:31
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
yukishiro1 wrote: Lol if Judicars get a free vexator mask built in, they really are going all-in on the "Imperium gets everything Xenos get, except better" theme.
They get a free vex mask according to that, i.e. a free, CP-less version of one of the very best relics in the entire game.
Being able to put always-strikes-last on something is game-changing against any combat army.
He does it to one unit within range though. This edition does not look melee friendly based on what has been shown. Granted, with the strike last, he's still better than the Chaos dudes that are supposed to be challenge monsters, but that's a given. Chaos aren't allowed to be good at anything with their base units!
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/07/01 18:14:36
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Vex mask is also one unit within 6". A targeted ASL that you don't even need to be in combat to use (unlike Armor of Russ) is incredibly powerful against a combat army. A lot of armies just have no real answer to it.
2020/07/01 18:19:33
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
