Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Yes but over that 30 year period we've had several generations of marine models released. Primaris are just the newest generation, only instead of swapping over models and calling them marines GW went the odd path of keeping both lines at once in the same army. So instead of replacing the old marine kit with the primaris and then steadily swapping things in and out (ergo your old marines they now count as primaris) they went for a duel release. So now you've an army of two parts that's sort of wanting to go with the newer, but at the same time wanting to keep the old. It's sort of stuck half way and feels messy.
That said I don't play marines so its a curiosity and oddness and my only worry is GW trying it with other forces (which I don't think is going to happen).
That part that makes me sorrowful about it is that sooner or later, Firstborn will go away, and at that point, we lose the ability to play games set between the end of the Heresy and the beginning of the Indomitus Crusade. Miniatures will of course remain available for a long time, there's enough secondhand Marines to pave over all of Nottingham, but Legend rules will be created in a halfhearted and slapdash way because GW will be incentivised to minimize the appeal of models they no longer produce.
If I was a betting man, I'd put money down on the 10th edition Marine codex to be Primaris-only, with perhaps one or two "Firstborn Veterans" unit entries at best, for people who want to field a handful of oldmarines in Xth.
Voss wrote: Oh. So... still no generic c'tan shard.
That's exciting.
Almost as exciting as the green putty bloating this model beyond practicality.
This and silent king are the first two real knocks these new necrons have taken.
Isn't the one in the tesseract ark a generic one?
The one in the Tesseract Vault is a Transcendent C'tan. Note however the only C'tan datasheets in the 8th edition codex are the Transcendent C'tan, C'tan Shard of the Deceiver and C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer.
As I already tried to explain, the unit labelled “Transcendent C’tan” has the statline of a generic C’tan shard. There are no rules currently that actually represent multiple shards united into a terrifyingly powerful being.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, Vanguard replaced the one scout unit with three, and added in some scout HQs which is nice since previously only Ultramarines had one.
Vanguard replaced nothing. Scouts are still a thing, even in the lore. They effectively added/coopted a Raven Guard Horus Heresy concept into the Primaris.
Guilliman is all about that stealing concept crap. The Moritat are a good example of this.
Actually we really don't know if scouts are still a thing GW has said nothing on it.They presumably will be in the new codex, at that GW intends on replacing them with primairis equivalents at some point.
It's in the book that came out last August. We absolutely, 100% do know "scouts are still a thing".
I don't mind if they don't as people have already mentioned that their roles have effectively been replaced by these:
None of those are really "replacements" for Scouts though. Unless your only understanding of scouts is "they deploy differently!".
No Marines outside of Ultramarines had a 'Scout Equivalent HQ'. Argument can be made for Sergeant Namaan for the Dark Angels but that model is long since gone.
None of those are really "replacements" for Scouts though. Unless your only understanding of scouts is "they deploy differently!".
that is the point, the only thing going for Scouts is different deployment and Sniper Rifles
details changed with each edtion as have the profiles (from Recruits with worse stats to Marines with no armour) but the constant thing over time was Sniper Rifles and different deployment
Actually we really don't know if scouts are still a thing GW has said nothing on it.They presumably will be in the new codex, at that GW intends on replacing them with primairis equivalents at some point.
It's in the book that came out last August. We absolutely, 100% do know "scouts are still a thing"
So we don't know if they are still a thing with the next Codex as information from last year is easily changed or replaced (it it would not be the first time fluff changes 180° from one Codex to the next)
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
specia_k_squared wrote: I can't get the picture up, but is that a new necron model in the upper left of the silent king on the community page. It looks like a new pylon weapon
It's been mentioned. It's probably just a studio terrain piece since we already have the Dominion of Convergence coming for a Necron terrain piece.
From War of Sigmar:
That's very clearly a cut up Mk1 Monolith
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Voss wrote: Oh. So... still no generic c'tan shard. That's exciting.
Almost as exciting as the green putty bloating this model beyond practicality.
This and silent king are the first two real knocks these new necrons have taken.
Isn't the one in the tesseract ark a generic one?
The one in the Tesseract Vault is a Transcendent C'tan. Note however the only C'tan datasheets in the 8th edition codex are the Transcendent C'tan, C'tan Shard of the Deceiver and C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer.
As I already tried to explain, the unit labelled “Transcendent C’tan” has the statline of a generic C’tan shard. There are no rules currently that actually represent multiple shards united into a terrifyingly powerful being.
Or we don't have a generic C'tan shard and all we have is a generic Transcendent C'tan, which is just a large shard or an amalgamation of multiple shards. From Codex Necrons (8th edition, pg. 64):
Not all C’tan Shards are equal in size and power. Some are mere fragments of energy, scarcely powerful enough to hold themselves together. Such fractured essences are of little threat to other creatures, and of no use as weapons – if they serve any function at all, it is as curios or trinkets for acquisitive Crypteks. On the other end of that scale are the Transcendent Shards – C’tan remnants of such size that even the most reckless of Overlords think carefully before employing them. These beings are sometimes created through several shards of the same C’tan flowing into one another to become an echo of its former godlike power
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 19:04:47
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
All newly made primaris marines still serve as scouts before becoming real marines right (exception is Cawl's original ones who were cloned, or at least already baked and put in statis after the heresy?)
So there still need to be scouts from a lore perspective. Scouts are marines in training, who can't yet wear power armor - hence all the phobos armor guys cannot really be a replacement for scouts.
So I would expect new scout models at some point. The old ones are pretty bad, just look at those faces - even the heavy metal painters can't make them look good.
Danny76 wrote: From that I always took that deceiver and nightbringer were also transcendent in power level
Yeah same, Trancendant Shards are several bits of the lower level C'Tan smushed together, bringing them into the same power level as shards of the big guys like Deceiver, Nightbringer etc.
Even more new marines releases. It just never ends!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
specia_k_squared wrote: I can't get the picture up, but is that a new necron model in the upper left of the silent king on the community page. It looks like a new pylon weapon
It's been mentioned. It's probably just a studio terrain piece since we already have the Dominion of Convergence coming for a Necron terrain piece.
From War of Sigmar:
That's very clearly a cut up Mk1 Monolith
Its clearly not. The monolith is made of 4 mostly flat panels, the crystal doesn't look like that (its made of the same stuff as the green rods), doesn't have anything like the round base the arms are attached to, and it doesn't have putty lightning (which is a signature of the new stuff, not the old, especially not monolith old).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/04 21:36:34
Oguhmek wrote: All newly made primaris marines still serve as scouts before becoming real marines right (exception is Cawl's original ones who were cloned, or at least already baked and put in statis after the heresy?)
So there still need to be scouts from a lore perspective. Scouts are marines in training, who can't yet wear power armor - hence all the phobos armor guys cannot really be a replacement for scouts.
So I would expect new scout models at some point. The old ones are pretty bad, just look at those faces - even the heavy metal painters can't make them look good.
If you really think scouts are going to continue, after adding Phobos..including snipers, I think you're in for disappointment. They may still be in the fluff as a training wing, but removed from the battlefield. There is zero reason to have them in the codex...their role has been replaced. The replacement is ongoing for all old marines, but it is happening.
specia_k_squared wrote: I can't get the picture up, but is that a new necron model in the upper left of the silent king on the community page. It looks like a new pylon weapon
It's been mentioned. It's probably just a studio terrain piece since we already have the Dominion of Convergence coming for a Necron terrain piece.
From War of Sigmar:
That's very clearly a cut up Mk1 Monolith
Its clearly not. The monolith is made of 4 mostly flat panels, the crystal doesn't look like that (its made of the same stuff as the green rods), doesn't have anything like the round base the arms are attached to, and it doesn't have putty lightning (which is a signature of the new stuff, not the old, especially not monolith old).
OK, it's the FW Necron board tile with a cut up Mk1 Monolith on top.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
specia_k_squared wrote: I can't get the picture up, but is that a new necron model in the upper left of the silent king on the community page. It looks like a new pylon weapon
It's been mentioned. It's probably just a studio terrain piece since we already have the Dominion of Convergence coming for a Necron terrain piece.
From War of Sigmar:
That's very clearly a cut up Mk1 Monolith
Its clearly not. The monolith is made of 4 mostly flat panels, the crystal doesn't look like that (its made of the same stuff as the green rods), doesn't have anything like the round base the arms are attached to, and it doesn't have putty lightning (which is a signature of the new stuff, not the old, especially not monolith old).
The 'arms' however are from the original Monolith.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I think it's looking more and more likely that the old marines are not going to stick around all of this edition and will probably be off to legends in a year or two
anybody who needs anything from the range had better get shopping as soon it's going to be Primeris as far as the eye can see
Honestly besides a random idea of greed I never got why GW didn't just outright upgrade marines into Primeris in one go. Like they did every time before. It seems really odd to have two model lines in the same army that are basically copy-catting each other.
Plausible?
Legal team meets marketing team. Marines in space are not defensible properties. Marketing meets designers. Sell marines under a different name plus feed the pulp fiction mill. Design meets writers. Make up stories that give us defensible IP that sells to kids, so... make them really good, tacticool and shiny. What about OG marines? Writers meet marketing. Marketing says eff em. And here we are.
The whole point of Primaris was to replace the entire marine line with new models so all marine players would have to buy whole new armies. There is no other reason for Primaris. It is 100% about getting marine players to replace their armies. The lore is just a shallow justification for getting people to replace their armies.
You can't do that all at once, it would piss people off way too much and lots of people would just quit the game rather than having to immediately drop 1k on a new army. You gotta boil the frog, do it slowly, piece by piece, so before people know it they've replaced their army without realizing they had to.
GW are smart when it comes to selling people stuff. If they weren't, they wouldn't be the biggest, most successful miniature company by far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 22:08:25
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I think it's looking more and more likely that the old marines are not going to stick around all of this edition and will probably be off to legends in a year or two
anybody who needs anything from the range had better get shopping as soon it's going to be Primeris as far as the eye can see
Honestly besides a random idea of greed I never got why GW didn't just outright upgrade marines into Primeris in one go. Like they did every time before. It seems really odd to have two model lines in the same army that are basically copy-catting each other.
Plausible?
Legal team meets marketing team. Marines in space are not defensible properties. Marketing meets designers. Sell marines under a different name plus feed the pulp fiction mill. Design meets writers. Make up stories that give us defensible IP that sells to kids, so... make them really good, tacticool and shiny. What about OG marines? Writers meet marketing. Marketing says eff em. And here we are.
The switch to Primaris is not for legal reasons. IP wise there is no difference between Primaris and Space marines. They are giant genetic warriors in advanced armour.
The issue is the problem "how do you sell space marines to people who have hundreds of them in every possible configuration". Solution: make new 'better' space marines to sell them.
Primaris exist because everyone already had a space marine army.
yukishiro1 wrote: The whole point of Primaris was to replace the entire marine line with new models so all marine players would have to buy whole new armies. There is no other reason for Primaris. It is 100% about getting marine players to replace their armies. The lore is just a shallow justification for getting people to replace their armies.
You can't do that all at once, it would piss people off way too much and lots of people would just quit the game rather than having to immediately drop 1k on a new army. You gotta boil the frog, do it slowly, piece by piece, so before people know it they've replaced their army without realizing they had to.
GW are smart when it comes to selling people stuff. If they weren't, they wouldn't be the biggest, most successful miniature company by far.
Yeah, pretty much. The outrage would be massive if they just instantly squatted the line, especially while there were holes in the lines. Now that we are starting to see a critical mass of Primaris, it's very likely we are going to start seeing all the Firstborn go Direct only and then shuffled off to legends from there.
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
-squint-
I am having a hard time guessing whether this is sarcasm or a legitimate bit of scuttlebutt.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
-squint-
I am having a hard time guessing whether this is sarcasm or a legitimate bit of scuttlebutt.
If that's true, then they're behind schedule on the Ork Boyz, Cadian Shock Troops and Catachan Jungle Fighters.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I was presuming that it was in regards to plastic kits, but I could be wrong.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
-squint-
I am having a hard time guessing whether this is sarcasm or a legitimate bit of scuttlebutt.
I've heard this from a lot of people, including my local gw store manager. Once a model hits the big 20, it gets either replaced with a new version, or with a new unit entirely. I expect that Tyranids, Eldar and Guard will get the necron treatment within the next 18-24 months, and I imagine Orcs will also show up at some point.
Carnikang wrote: I'm just hoping that Space Marines make enough money for GW to consider producing plastic Biovores, Lictors, Pyrovores, Shrikes, redone Deathleaper, and Red Terror.
Get that money Space Marines....
I've heard from several sources that GW has a 20 year policy on models, once those models hit 20 years, I'm sure they'll be replaced. People need to be patient, GWs releases have been in overdrive for three to four full years now, we've seen more new models kits since 2016 than we did the previous decade, and they're not done yet. Look at how AoS evolved over time. Your factions will get redone, necrons are proof of that. You're just going to have to be patient and wait it out.
-squint-
I am having a hard time guessing whether this is sarcasm or a legitimate bit of scuttlebutt.
If that's true, then they're behind schedule on the Ork Boyz, Cadian Shock Troops and Catachan Jungle Fighters.
Cadian plastic sprues are 2002 correct? So they still have 2 years before hitting the big 20.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 23:47:51
Togusa wrote: I've heard this from a lot of people, including my local gw store manager.
Not trying to burst any bubbles, but the average GW store manager is as well informed about GW internal procedures as any other guy on the internet.
On top of that this really doesn't add up with many kits being redone way before they hit those mysterious 20 years, and some being a good bit older without any replacement or remake.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
