Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

darthryan wrote:
I expect battlescribe to get hit with a stop using our rules or we will sue you letter in the next few weeks

Battlescribe is merely the platform. All the datafiles are community made.

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


Even if GW has no legal recourse to go after Battlescribe, they can still do so. It still requires Battlescribe to get representation for their case, and there are a lot of costs for that. Maybe they can recoup those later, maybe not. Going after Microsoft, and going after some tiny company are completely different kinds of animals.

There is a very good chance that if GW sent battlescribe a C&D, they would just fold, even if Battlescribe are legally in the right. The cost and resources to fight something like this are a major ask for a few indie developers.

If GW truly believed that they would have sued Battlescribe ages ago.

Perhaps, Perhaps not. They are likely not actively loosing a lot money from Battlescribe right now. Once the App goes live, they now stand to possibly lose millions of dollars a year in lost subscriptions. So they have the incentive to actually take action now, and the cost of legal action could be offset by the additional subscriptions.

 kodos wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
Why would they go after Battlescribe now? They've never cared about AoS being on there and Azyr's been out donkey's.

the 40k App is very different to the AoS App, no free rules and no free army builder

and why should someone pay GW for their army builder of he can get BS for free (and as you can find BS files with the relevant 8th edition unit rules as well, the App has nothing to offer you cannot get somewhere else)

Neither app has free army builder.

And what gw app has over bs: trustworthy data. With bs datafile player uses is as reliable as data file creator AND opponent. For one datafiles could have error to begin with. And if opponent is not trustworthy he has easy as hell time modifying it to his tastes. It's very easy(bs's business model would be super bad if it WASN'T easy).

Also depending on gui it can be better finding exact rule midgame. Bs makes easier to add up points. Less easy finding specific rule midgame. Ebooks are not any better especially if you need multiple books. In 8th 6 books would be easy(besides ca and rulebook). Even in 9th 2 books or 4 isn't that hard.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grrr is the correct response. I was hoping for points this week. I want to write some lists. Another disappointment. And that price converts to $5 a month. Why is the 40k app more expensive than the AoS app besides "just because we can"?

When I was tooling around with building a list building app that validates the lists the project was going to be really complex. 40K list building is no joke and I imagine the cost to get it built was quite high. The AoS builder is super rudimentary.

So what do you expect this list builder to do for $5 a month that battlescribe doesn't already do? Honest question.

Validated lists. Battlescribe can create incorrect lists. I can foresee tournaments like LVO saying, "we only accept lists through the GW app". It lifts the burden from them to do due diligence on lists.

Tournaments huh? So useless for me. Guess I'll just take the free part. If they'd included the points Saturday I'd have paid for the subscription.

Also nice to see primaris lieutenants are still cheaper than Exalted Champions.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

darthryan wrote:
I expect battlescribe to get hit with a stop using our rules or we will sue you letter in the next few weeks

Battlescribe is merely the platform. All the datafiles are community made.

there are lot of legal issues/discussions if a platfrom is responsible for everything the community is doing

hence why we are still not talking/posting points in forums (at least in German ones) because they Admins/Mods/Owners/Hosters are not 100% save that they can not be made responsible of GW sends a letter
so if you don't have the money to fight it out you better be on the save side

and until now there was never an official army builder for 40k, so we don't know if GW still don't care or just did not in the past because they had nothing to offer anyway

 kodos wrote:
... and until now there was never an official army builder for 40k...

There has been one (actually two) official army builder program from Games Workshop.

The app clearly offers stuff that BS doesn't - for a start it offers full rules whereas BS sometimes only gives the rule name but doesn't actually say what it does. BS is not updated to include amended text as a result of Errata/FAQ updates.

The army builder is coming so I'm not too worried by that not being available on day 1. I'm still in lockdown so it will likely be out before i next play.

The rest of it really depends on how slick and easy the user interface of the app is. BS is clunky at best but it is the best thing out there at the minute. If the app is easier to use then that alone, alongside incorporating the FAQ/Errata changes is enough for me.

At the moment, the app offers nothing. The self-proclaimed "number one feature" isn't being included at launch, contrary to what they initially claimed, and is so far behind schedule they have even dropped giving a release date for it at all.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grrr is the correct response. I was hoping for points this week. I want to write some lists. Another disappointment. And that price converts to $5 a month. Why is the 40k app more expensive than the AoS app besides "just because we can"?

When I was tooling around with building a list building app that validates the lists the project was going to be really complex. 40K list building is no joke and I imagine the cost to get it built was quite high. The AoS builder is super rudimentary.

So what do you expect this list builder to do for $5 a month that battlescribe doesn't already do? Honest question.

Validated lists. Battlescribe can create incorrect lists. I can foresee tournaments like LVO saying, "we only accept lists through the GW app". It lifts the burden from them to do due diligence on lists.

Tournaments huh? So useless for me. Guess I'll just take the free part. If they'd included the points Saturday I'd have paid for the subscription.

Also nice to see primaris lieutenants are still cheaper than Exalted Champions.

Absolutely no way will it be good enough to be the tournament standard. The AoS app has been out for years and it is still wrong constantly.

ERJAK wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grrr is the correct response. I was hoping for points this week. I want to write some lists. Another disappointment. And that price converts to $5 a month. Why is the 40k app more expensive than the AoS app besides "just because we can"?

When I was tooling around with building a list building app that validates the lists the project was going to be really complex. 40K list building is no joke and I imagine the cost to get it built was quite high. The AoS builder is super rudimentary.

So what do you expect this list builder to do for $5 a month that battlescribe doesn't already do? Honest question.

Validated lists. Battlescribe can create incorrect lists. I can foresee tournaments like LVO saying, "we only accept lists through the GW app". It lifts the burden from them to do due diligence on lists.

Tournaments huh? So useless for me. Guess I'll just take the free part. If they'd included the points Saturday I'd have paid for the subscription.

Also nice to see primaris lieutenants are still cheaper than Exalted Champions.

Absolutely no way will it be good enough to be the tournament standard. The AoS app has been out for years and it is still wrong constantly.

Can you provide some recent examples of the AoS being wrong? I use it pretty consistently, and I don't recall it being wrong that often. I am curious at some the recent issues.

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Seems like the Primaris Lieutenants weren't hit with that across the board points hike huh?

Who knows at this point. This could be in image from an earlier build.

352 pages in... does anyone have regional pricing info yet?

Lots of salt about the GW app.

I think the subscriber fee is good value IF you haven't invested in too many 8th edition digital codices and is absolutely great value if you don't have many 8th edition codices and were interested in having them.

As for replacing those codices, even at a rate of two per month, it will take them nearly 18 months to replace and over that time frame you are spending est. $108 which is less than the cost of 3 codices.

I am not trying to shill for GW, but I think some people are being a little short sighted in judging the subscriber price solely on a as yet unseen list builder as the subscription price is not just for a list builder but for access to ~$950 worth of 8th edition codices day that will probably take over two years and likely longer to be retired. GW knows they have to get a list builder out soon, i.e. within the next month or two to maintain interest and momentum in the app which has been one of the most requested features of the community.

GW is paying people to make their version and need revenue to offset that expense. Not to say that comparisons to BattleScribe are not worthwhile, but BattleScribe is not paying anyone and the 40k data files would not be free* if it wasn't for the philanthropy and dedication of a relatively few committed 40k enthusiasts.

Finally I don’t think GW is going to go after BattleScribe. There is already the precedent with Lone Wolf Development, so GW knows where they stand legally.

tneva82 wrote:

Neither app has free army builder..

yeah the free army builder is not in the App but on the webstite for AoS, so a big plus as it is free and can be used on PC as well

tneva82 wrote:

And what gw app has over bs: trustworthy data.

this will be seen if it is up to date with no issues or not

faking BS files can checked with the printed stuff, but wrong point costs in the App or wrong rules are a problem as the App should have the latest stuff and you cannot proof it wrong with an outdated book

so we will se how reliable it will be in the end


Automatically Appended Next Post:

angryboy2k wrote:
352 pages in... does anyone have regional pricing info yet?

pre-order is in 2 days, we won't get official regional prices until that

199USD/125GBP

Jesus Christ we just want the point costs for armies, let us play 9th Edition already, we have the core rules, the leaked missions, JUST LET US PLAAAY. I don't want to play broken 8th anymore. I'm so sick of this teasing and drawing everything at length for MONTHS. Why does it take two weeks to take preorders while it's usually one week ? Seriously half the summer will be gone and we're still with drip-fed informations we already know.

Just release a PDF already Jesus. Nobody's buying stuff except Marine and Necrons players who ordered Indomitus, the rest of us are too scared to buy boxes that will be possibly useless in two weeks. What's the point of waiting dragging everything for so long ?

 ziggurattt wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:


2) Dice app

I would love a sanctioned dice app.

If they really want people to use the app they could just tie stratagems to the dice roller. Burn a command point to weight your dice.

angryboy2k wrote:
352 pages in... does anyone have regional pricing info yet?

From War of Sigmar:

 Aaranis wrote:
Jesus Christ we just want the point costs for armies, let us play 9th Edition already, we have the core rules, the leaked missions, JUST LET US PLAAAY. I don't want to play broken 8th anymore. I'm so sick of this teasing and drawing everything at length for MONTHS. Why does it take two weeks to take preorders while it's usually one week ? Seriously half the summer will be gone and we're still with drip-fed informations we already know.

Just release a PDF already Jesus. Nobody's buying stuff except Marine and Necrons players who ordered Indomitus, the rest of us are too scared to buy boxes that will be possibly useless in two weeks. What's the point of waiting dragging everything for so long ?

You can't have the points until the release Chapter Approved, you know... another book.

Yeah, they gotta find some way to get normal people who don't go to tournaments to to buy the $40 tournament book.

We probably should have known better than to trust the PR spin that they were going to give people the points on July 11, two weeks before the release of the book with the points in it. It feels much more like GW to wait a month or two after release to implement the army builder feature on the app...after the really desperate have shelled out for the book.

That's ok, I've had 3 FLGS and 2 other stores on The InterWebs inform myself and other customers, that GW is cutting their amounts of pre-orders that will ship because they oversold.

Can't wait for the sweet rage from the Community when Pre-Orders get cancelled and it sells out to scalpers on the GW site day 1.

 Aaranis wrote:
Jesus Christ we just want the point costs for armies, let us play 9th Edition already, we have the core rules, the leaked missions, JUST LET US PLAAAY. I don't want to play broken 8th anymore. I'm so sick of this teasing and drawing everything at length for MONTHS. Why does it take two weeks to take preorders while it's usually one week ? Seriously half the summer will be gone and we're still with drip-fed informations we already know.

Just release a PDF already Jesus. Nobody's buying stuff except Marine and Necrons players who ordered Indomitus, the rest of us are too scared to buy boxes that will be possibly useless in two weeks. What's the point of waiting dragging everything for so long ?

You could play Power Level if you're that desperate.

And I'm picking up the Apoc Eldar box from.my FLGS tonight, so some of us are still working on army projects.

The points will all be leaked after the new ca is released anyway. If it takes that long. Gw's just costing themselves money. If they'd included points in the app subscription then it would have sold big day one.

 TalonZahn wrote:
That's ok, I've had 3 FLGS and 2 other stores on The InterWebs inform myself and other customers, that GW is cutting their amounts of pre-orders that will ship because they oversold.

Can't wait for the sweet rage from the Community when Pre-Orders get cancelled and it sells out to scalpers on the GW site day 1.

They probably oversold to the FLGS and needed their direct pre-order allotment fluffed back up.

Heck, when you hear of stores ordering a minimum of 300 copies it's obvious GW is going to go "lol, nope".

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
The points will all be leaked after the new ca is released anyway. If it takes that long. Gw's just costing themselves money. If they'd included points in the app subscription then it would have sold big day one.

That's what most of us will do, no doubt. But GW wouldn't put out a CA20XX every year if some people didn't buy them.

The new Chapter Approved Grand Tournament 2020 is really nice. Lovely new size, ring bound so lies perfectly flat and a handy elastic page mark. Loads of missions and all the rules summaries in the back. Realy much better than any previous version and will be super popular I reckon. The Field Manual is a normal book albeit in the new smaller size.

 Aaranis wrote:
Jesus Christ we just want the point costs for armies, let us play 9th Edition already, we have the core rules, the leaked missions, JUST LET US PLAAAY. I don't want to play broken 8th anymore. I'm so sick of this teasing and drawing everything at length for MONTHS. Why does it take two weeks to take preorders while it's usually one week ? Seriously half the summer will be gone and we're still with drip-fed informations we already know.

Just release a PDF already Jesus. Nobody's buying stuff except Marine and Necrons players who ordered Indomitus, the rest of us are too scared to buy boxes that will be possibly useless in two weeks. What's the point of waiting dragging everything for so long ?

If by useless you mean not best in slot, be a hobbyist and buy/paint what you like.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Jesus Christ we just want the point costs for armies, let us play 9th Edition already, we have the core rules, the leaked missions, JUST LET US PLAAAY. I don't want to play broken 8th anymore. I'm so sick of this teasing and drawing everything at length for MONTHS. Why does it take two weeks to take preorders while it's usually one week ? Seriously half the summer will be gone and we're still with drip-fed informations we already know.

Just release a PDF already Jesus. Nobody's buying stuff except Marine and Necrons players who ordered Indomitus, the rest of us are too scared to buy boxes that will be possibly useless in two weeks. What's the point of waiting dragging everything for so long ?

You could play Power Level if you're that desperate.

And I'm picking up the Apoc Eldar box from.my FLGS tonight, so some of us are still working on army projects.

Power Level is getting revised too (supposedly) and is not really great for Matched Play. I'll just wait, but I'm more upset about that senseless teasing they do every time they release something and drag it down forever. I should just chill out.

I'm angry because we essentially have half of 9th and it's going to stay that way for a long time still. And oh yeah, putting the points behind yet another paywall is a bad move.

You could us PL and play the Open War Mission or one of the Crusade missions.

I get we live in a world where we want everything immediately but if we just want to get a handle on the new game system we can start playing it now.

I'm definitely in the boat of people hoping for someone with the CA rules to leak it. They're out there! Just no sign yet.