40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**ERJAK**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No rule book has had the points in it? Ever.

Points are in your Codex, CA updates them?

No BRB has ever had the points is what he meant

**tneva82**

Ice_can wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Everybody talking about the indomitus box and I'm just over here waiting for points leaks.

IDGAF about getting indomitus on day 1. They'll have shelves full of them eventually just like they did with the sisters box. Just gimme the points bro. I need my points.

I want the new FW books I have lots of pretty models that are unplayably over pointed

Then you are better hoping no new book before gw puts resin tax even more higher to ensure players don't buy resin models to spam

**jivardi**

stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

**ERJAK**

tneva82 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Everybody talking about the indomitus box and I'm just over here waiting for points leaks.

IDGAF about getting indomitus on day 1. They'll have shelves full of them eventually just like they did with the sisters box. Just gimme the points bro. I need my points.

I want the new FW books I have lots of pretty models that are unplayably over pointed

Then you are better hoping no new book before gw puts resin tax even more higher to ensure players don't buy resin models to spam

FW points are in CA. Not sure if that has any bearing on the FW books release window or not.

**NoggintheNog**

jivardi wrote:

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

They literally sent out an email telling us they had made plenty but you could only buy 6 at once. Then sent another saying you could only by three because they have made a lot but want everyone to get a chance to buy.

Its textbook marketing to promote fear of loss.

I don't blame them for it, its in textbooks because it works. They get the sales, and that is what GW exists to do.

**Jidmah**

stratigo wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Same here, the budget has "suffered" from PA and Legacy of the Wolf releases this year, so I really need to decide what to get. I did buy the last two CA though and was fairly happy with having the missions and other rules like battle honors or custom heros available. I have no issues with paying GW for their books if the content is decent.
This one though? I somehow doubt I will get any value out of it. I'll probably wait for some youtuber unboxing the books before I place my pre-orders. From the content page it seems like you can use CA instead of the BRB - in that case it would be my preferred choice.

**Doohicky**

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Firestorm are now up:

https://www.firestormgames.co.uk/warhammer-40000:-indomitus

Much appreciated, my friend orderd from elemental and they are saying august delivery for it.
I was able to get him one from here for day 1 delivery

**stratigo**

jivardi wrote:
stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

I mean, sure, GW does bone headed stuff. But ultimately whether out of stupidity, or market manipulation, the result is the same. I don't care particularly much the reasoning behind it and if them being dumb just so happens to line up with a rather common marketing tactic. This shouldn't really be acceptable.

**H.B.M.C.**

jivardi wrote:
So I just jumped on the assumption bandwagon, trying to fit in with the cool kids.

Weird flex, but aiight. You do you I guess...

**WhiteDog**

jivardi wrote:
stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

You think a firm as big as GW does not think ahead about its business practices ? Are you taking them for amateurs ?

**tneva82**

jivardi wrote:

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

You realize if they wanted they could keep on producing more as they wish? They haven't lost capability to do more. But they have opted to have set amount. That's very definition of limited edition.

And it's not shady. It's just business as usual. Sell some amount of discount boxes but not too much least you hurt sales of non-discount units. Why sell skorpion lord, assault primaris etc for discountea price for all rather than for some and full price for rest?

**stratigo**

WhiteDog wrote:
jivardi wrote:
stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

You think a firm as big as GW does not think ahead about its business practices ? Are you taking them for amateurs ?

Major businesses can get paradigm locked and executives can be stubbornly, stupidly resistant to the idea that they are not geniuses where all decisions they make are obviously the right ones, damn the research (see, Kirby).

**No wolves on Fenris**

I’m basically one phone call short of harassment to my local gaming store to a) make sure I was on their “interested” list and b) rang this morning to make sure they had copies. I will be getting mine on 25th release day. Phew!

**Jidmah**

WhiteDog wrote:
You think a firm as big as GW does not think ahead about its business practices ? Are you taking them for amateurs ?

... yes?

**No wolves on Fenris**

I genuinely can’t remember things this crazy since the End Times books were released about 5-6 years ago. Damn it was a nerve wracking few minutes to see if I got my End Times:Khaine book

**WhiteDog**

stratigo wrote:
WhiteDog wrote:
jivardi wrote:
stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

You think a firm as big as GW does not think ahead about its business practices ? Are you taking them for amateurs ?

Major businesses can get paradigm locked and executives can be stubbornly, stupidly resistant to the idea that they are not geniuses where all decisions they make are obviously the right ones, damn the research (see, Kirby).

From an outsider perspective maybe. A firm does what it has to make profit that's it. GW's business model might be criticable from an outsider perspective (I hate that kind of pre order shortage) but it is successful : they have record profit. Arguing that they are making a simple mistake because they misjudge the number of people that will purchase their goods is stupid.
They know full well that they don't produce enough to respond to the demand, and they know full well that those 15 days pre-order is a scam and that actual pre-order will not last a week (it didn't last an hour). It's designed this way, it's their objective.

**Crimson**

I really don't get the point of the artificial scarcity in this instance. This is a product that is sure to sell like hot cakes regardless. I'm sure they could have easily sold several times the amount they had.

**Trickstick**

How long was the manufacturing shutdown from covid? I imagine that a lot of production time was lost, which makes more sense to be a cause of shortages than the artificial scarcity idea.

**No wolves on Fenris**

I reckon they will restock for next weekend and have a second wave then

**Crimson**

Trickstick wrote:
How long was the manufacturing shutdown from covid? I imagine that a lot of production time was lost, which makes more sense to be a cause of shortages than the artificial scarcity idea.

Good point. That would indeed make sense.

**WhiteDog**

Crimson wrote:
I really don't get the point of the artificial scarcity in this instance. This is a product that is sure to sell like hot cakes regardless. I'm sure they could have easily sold several times the amount they had.

- Create frustration, which can be good.
- You control the exact number of good you produce (no loss, control of cost). Firms actually love that kind of things : japanese automobile firms even accepted quotas to restrict import in the US back in 90ies because it gave them a complete control over their production cost.
- The shortage is directed at a specific good : a boxset that's, all things considered, a good deal. In a month or two they might replace this box with another box, less expensive but with less units and that makes them a higher profit margin. The frustration that they created might comes in handy in pushing people to purchase this less beneficial deal as a substitute.

Trickstick wrote:
How long was the manufacturing shutdown from covid? I imagine that a lot of production time was lost, which makes more sense to be a cause of shortages than the artificial scarcity idea.

If that was the case they could have just report the release 15 days later. And what about previous instances of the same type of artificial shortage ? The sister box what created the shortage ? They didn't know it would be successful ? And yet they had a 15day pre-order in this instance too.

**Asmodai**

ERJAK wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No rule book has had the points in it? Ever.

Points are in your Codex, CA updates them?

No BRB has ever had the points is what he meant

3rd edition included all the points and datasheets in the BRB.

**Trickstick**

Asmodai wrote:
3rd edition included all the points and datasheets in the BRB.

You have to consider that 3rd was a special case though, as the entire system changed drastically. IIRC, they halved points pretty much across the board, and completely changed unit and weapon stat lines.

Personally, I think putting points in the rulebook would be stupid. They are going to be outdated as soon as a codex comes out. Better to have a seperate book for them. Now, if you want to talk about relative book prices being too high, I would probably agree...

Also, any news on this app yet?

**tneva82**

Trickstick wrote:
How long was the manufacturing shutdown from covid? I imagine that a lot of production time was lost, which makes more sense to be a cause of shortages than the artificial scarcity idea.

Right. Covid virus in 2020 also reason for all the sell outs of limited edition discount boxes in 2019, 2018, 2017 etc. Oh and covid also destroyed gw's cabability to produce more now. Oh yes. That makes sense.

**General Kroll**

I would imagine they have kept vast numbers back in order to attract people into their stores on release day,

**tneva82**

Crimson wrote:
I really don't get the point of the artificial scarcity in this instance. This is a product that is sure to sell like hot cakes regardless. I'm sure they could have easily sold several times the amount they had.

Do gw want to sell 1000 unit at price x or 100 unit at x and 900 unit with price higher than x.

They don't want to harm sales of full price boxes. If they meet demand here who buy skorpion lord separately?

**EldarExarch**

Im super confused and annoyed, I thought pre-orders weren't supposed to start until 10am PST, and now everything is already sold out. Christ almighty....

**stratigo**

WhiteDog wrote:
stratigo wrote:
WhiteDog wrote:
jivardi wrote:
stratigo wrote:
jivardi wrote:
Love plastic crack and it's effects.

2 weeks ago it was "9th edition sucks, the new Space Marines suck".

Now it's "GW suck for not producing enough boxes that contain models that suck and are ugly."

I've seen meth junkies act less obsessed than this.

FYI, I put my order in but than I've always been on "9th is great and the new marines will look good as Dark Angels".

I mean... commentary on how GW is utilizing marketing practices to create artificial scarcity as a tool to manipulate consumers into making purchases without investing the proper level of consideration for FOMO isn't because we're all so garsh darn jonesing for the models.

Here's a hint, I did not preorder any boxes. I don't pre order things from GW. In general I just don't pre order. Pre orders are, largely, bad (and also why a donation to kick starter should be considered charity and not a purchase as a complete aside).

Will I end up with an indomitus box? Well never a full one, but if one of the handful of necron players in my community is in the store and I'm in the store and there's a box, I'd shell 100 for the marine half, provided someone way more into marines isn't also there and wants to split it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure if I want to buy this CA.
Buying the book for points is a waste of money, since I haven't looked more than twice inside the last one. Unless BS dies tomorrow, I highly doubt I will need it.

Sure, more missions are nice and everything, but we've got a pile of new missions, crusade mode and a whole new game to play until the next CA in winter will be released.
I think I'll rather buy a plague surgeon instead of this.

This has always been my paradox with GW codexes. I budget the money for my hobby. Sometimes I can budget a rather lot of money. But every dollar spent on a book isn't a dollar I spend in addition. It's a dollar out of my budget, that I'd rather spend on a model.

Speculation sure but I've seen quite a few posts saying that GW purposely shortened supply to manipulate customers is pretty far reaching, without proof. It could be that GW honestly did not plan ahead, did not have the resources to produce enough (we are in the midst of a pandemic and IIRC correctly doesn't GW outsource to China or other countries for some products?) It's pretty bold to claim that GW is behaving in a shady manner. Then again it's no shock as this forum, or at least some posters on this forum, love to throw around assumptions and speculations like Catholics throw accolades toward the Pope.

You think a firm as big as GW does not think ahead about its business practices ? Are you taking them for amateurs ?

Major businesses can get paradigm locked and executives can be stubbornly, stupidly resistant to the idea that they are not geniuses where all decisions they make are obviously the right ones, damn the research (see, Kirby).

From an outsider perspective maybe. A firm does what it has to make profit that's it. GW's business model might be criticable from an outsider perspective (I hate that kind of pre order shortage) but it is successful : they have record profit. Arguing that they are making a simple mistake because they misjudge the number of people that will purchase their goods is stupid.
They know full well that they don't produce enough to respond to the demand, and they know full well that those 15 days pre-order is a scam and that actual pre-order will not last a week (it didn't last an hour). It's designed this way, it's their objective.

Yes, it's successful right now. That doesn't mean its success is ensured and we're in for a major market crash here in the US due to the pandemic and, well, the housing market. Again (also we might get like, literal food riots. Fun). I don't think GW's profits are gonna be rosy under another recession, or depression.

I don't think it is actually making as much profit as it could be if it democratized its products instead of increasingly leaning into the toxic "It's a luuuuuxury" crowd.

**Trickstick**

tneva82 wrote:
Trickstick wrote:
How long was the manufacturing shutdown from covid? I imagine that a lot of production time was lost, which makes more sense to be a cause of shortages than the artificial scarcity idea.

Right. Covid virus in 2020 also reason for all the sell outs of limited edition discount boxes in 2019, 2018, 2017 etc. Oh and covid also destroyed gw's cabability to produce more now. Oh yes. That makes sense.

Well it's going to have had some sort of impact. Whether was something as small as selling out in 15 minutes, as opposed to the planned 30 minutes, that is up for debate.

**JWBS**

They cut back significantly on a whole range of products because of Covid, but Indomitus wasn't one of them. Covid affected their overall production capacity, but it was older stuff that took the hit (evidenced by the fact that much of it has been unavailable on third party retailers for quite some time, long after production recommenced, and is only just becoming available again in the past week or two).