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Someone clearly liked Rubrics.

No second wave of Indomitus confirmed by GW rep of my FLGS. Guess we can nix that rumour now. I was holding out hope but hey.

Small vicotry a CSM is 1pt less than a tactical marine! and the same cost as a scout now haha
10k year old veterans are valued the same as a scout


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lol guardsmen are 5pts cultists 6pts

i'm out

 Latro_ wrote:
Small vicotry a CSM is 1pt less than a tactical marine! and the same cost as a scout now haha
10k year old veterans are valued the same as a scout


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lol guardsmen are 5pts cultists 6pts

i'm out

CsM aRe NoT a HoRdE faCtIoN" inbound which is not an argument in this case imo considering that PTS dictate what i should get...

Also the chaos horde faction just got yeeted aswell.

 Latro_ wrote:
Small vicotry a CSM is 1pt less than a tactical marine! and the same cost as a scout now haha
10k year old veterans are valued the same as a scout


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lol guardsmen are 5pts cultists 6pts

i'm out

Yeah lore-wise it just doesn't make sense, and game wise it's very dubious. Guardmen are just better than cultist in almost every way.

Man.. what a time to have made my quarantine project making converted HQs and characters so I could field a full 2k grot army.

My poor grots are now the same price as a guardsman.

T2 S2 A1 WS5+ BS4+ Sv7+ Ld5 Assault 1 12" range

=

T3 S3 A1 WS4+ BS4+ Sv5+ Ld7 Rapid Fire 1 24" range with access to fething orders.

That's such a kick in the teeth. GW balanced this edition on fething crack.

Sisters make out really well.

Biggest increase is the Excorsist but it was already so good in 8th so I doubt it'll be a shelved unit.

DG did okay too. At least compared to CSM.

GD's saw price increase, DP's, other than Tzeentch, probably won't see tabletop with the unnecessary increase. Infantry didn't fair too badly with a 1pt hike (one of the lowest increases across all codeciies.

Unfortunately Daemons are going to be hard to win games with in 9th as well. The new EGD's are really good, at least the KoS and LoC but the exalted traits don't warrant a price increase.

I'm pretty happy with the pts changes to my 3 armies for the most part. Sisters got off easy.

OMG

Boyz are 8
Grots are 5

Grots == Guardsmen

Read that a couple of times

the_scotsman wrote:
Man.. what a time to have made my quarantine project making converted HQs and characters so I could field a full 2k grot army.

My poor grots are now the same price as a guardsman.

T2 S2 A1 WS5+ BS4+ Sv7+ Ld5 Assault 1 12" range

=

T3 S3 A1 WS4+ BS4+ Sv5+ Ld7 Rapid Fire 1 24" range with access to fething orders.

That's such a kick in the teeth. GW balanced this edition on fething crack.

And traits.
Don't forget the traits.
Heck i couldn0t even justify a Militia at the same pts as a Grot and militia were:
T3 S3 A1 WS 5+ BS 5+ SV 6+ and LD D6+2 at the same price as guardsmen.

This is just nonsense at this stage.
Predicted nonsense might i add.

a grot

costs the same

as a guardsman...


they spent years on this, playtested it all over the world, with much feedback...

It's perfectly balanced!

(Yes Commissar, no need for the pistol Commissar!)

the_scotsman wrote:
Man.. what a time to have made my quarantine project making converted HQs and characters so I could field a full 2k grot army.

My poor grots are now the same price as a guardsman.

T2 S2 A1 WS5+ BS4+ Sv7+ Ld5 Assault 1 12" range

=

T3 S3 A1 WS4+ BS4+ Sv5+ Ld7 Rapid Fire 1 24" range with access to fething orders.

That's such a kick in the teeth. GW balanced this edition on fething crack.

A Brimstone horror is the same points. T3, S1, A2, WS5+, BS-, Sv6++, LD7.

No shooting, no combat ability. The same points as a Guardsman. Just let *that* sink in.

 Latro_ wrote:
a grot

costs the same

as a guardsman...


they spent years on this, playtested it all over the world, with much feedback...

Plus the change in unit coherency already had massive impact on grot units. The point increase was unecessary.

Glorious isn't it.

But a Intercissor at 20 is fine compared to all these gems brought up

Harsh, but grots were never taken to do damage. They were there to grab objectives and be cheap enough to take lots of firepower elsewhere. They were too good for their role in comparison to ork boyz before.

Guess the actions you can now use in scenarios for objectives is also taken into account for the price of the units. It's not just a question of what they can kill for their cost anymore.

Still, the comparison with guardsmen is unfortunate.

Typing as fast as my 300wpm can transcribe here, forgive inevitable typos, I'm going thru SS's xenos video so you guys please compare with old points.

Craftworld eldar:

Craftworld Eldar

Autarch - 80
Autarch Skyrunner 105
Autarch with wings -90
Farseer 115
Farseer Skyrunner 135
Spiritseer 60
Warlock 50
Warlock Convlacve 40
Warlock Skyrunner 65
Warlock Skyrunner Conclave 55
Asurmen 160
Avatar 235
Barahoff 120
Eldrad 155
Fuegan 135
Illic 70
Jain Zar 125
Karandras 135
Maugan 150
Yriel 85
Wave Serpent 130
Dire Avengers 13
Guardians 10
HW 12
Rangers 15
SG 9
FD 23
HB 15
SS 13
WB 40
WG 38
SS 35
SH 16
Vipers 40
WS 18
WR 20
CH 140
CHE 170
Hemlock 230
DR 35
Falcons 115
FP 170
Night 145
Vauls Wrath 30
WW 40
WL 100
Wk 315
WWG 95
AML 20
Avenger 0 Pair 5
Bright Lance 20
D-cannon 40
D-scythe 10
Deathspinner 0 pair 5
doomweaver 0
Dragons breath flamer 10
Fire pike 15
fusion gun for fire dragon 0 other model 10
flamer 5
fusion pistol 0
hawks talon 5
heavy d scythe 0
hrc 50
lasblaster 0
laser lance for Autarch Skyrunner 5 other models 0
melta bomb 0
plasma grenade 0
pulse 0
scatter laser 10
ranger long rifle 0
reaper launcher 0
scorpions claw 10
shadow weaver 20
shuriken cannon DR exarch 0 other models 10
shuricat 0
shuripistol 0
singing spear 5
star lanc e 5
starcannon 15
suncannon 60
temest launcher 5
twin AML 40
twin bright lance 20
twin scatter laser 20
twin shuriken cannon 20
twin shurikcat 0
twin starcannon 30
vibro 15
wraithcannon 0
aeldari blade 0
biting blade 5
diresword 0
chainsword 0
executioner 5
ghost axe 0
ghost glaive 10
ghost swords 10
mirror swords 0
paragon sabre 0
power glaive 0
power sword for SH exarch 5 others 0
power blades 5
scorp chainsword 0
titanic feet 0
titanic ghostglaive 30
titanic fists 0
witch staff 0
witch blade 0
wraithguard fists 0
cTM 5
force shield 0
scatter shield 15
shimmershield 5
spiritstones 10
star engines 10
vector engines 10

Grots were taken, to fill out a batallion to unlock CP

They were on the chopping block at 3pts in 9th now you dont need them for cp.

At 5pts, you may as well assume they are not a unit anymore.

Well, how else will they sell Chapter Approved at the end of the year?

 Latro_ wrote:
Grots were taken, to fill out a batallion to unlock CP

They were on the chopping block at 3pts in 9th now you dont need them.

At 5pts, you may as well assume they are not a unit anymore.

I do tend to agree with the reasoning that horde units that are vital to an army (Guardsmen) got a bit of a discount over hordes that are not vital (Cultists). It's not like you can't have a cultist army, but you don't need them in the same way.

Edit: I mean I agree that is what they did, not neccessarily with the reasoning for it.

 TonyH122 wrote:
Well, how else will they sell Chapter Approved at the end of the year?

They won’t. It’s out on a fortnight and these points are from it.

DRUKHARI

drukhari

Archon 60
Haem65
succ 55
drazar 105
lelim hespirax 55
urien rakarth 95
kab 9
wracks 12
wyches 11
clawed fiend 35
hellion s 15
chimera 12
razorwing flocks 14
reavers 20
scourges 15
beastmaster 40
grots 40
incubi 16
lhamean 16
mandrakes 17
medusai 22
sslyth 21
urghul 16
cronos 70
rav 85
talos 85
raider 70
venom 60
razorwing 120
void 185
wwg 95
baleblast 0
bp 5
blaster 15
dl 15 inf others 20
dark scythe 0
disintegrator 25
eyeburst 0
haywire 10
heat lance 10
hexrifle 5
liquifier 10
ossefactor 5
pgl 5
razorwing missiles 0
shardcarbine 0
shredder 10
spirit scyfon 0
spirit vortex 10
sc 10 inf others 15
splinter pod
splinter rifle
splinter pistol 0
stinger pistol 5
stinger pod 10
Twin liq guns 15
twin SR 0
void lance 0
voidraven missiles 0
agonizer 5
archite 0
bladevanes 0
chainglaive 5
clawed fists 0
flaws n talons 0
electrowhip 5
demiglaive 0
flesh gaunt 5
glimmer 0
haemi tools 0
heka blade 0
hellglaive 0
huskblade 5
hydra 5
ichor 5
impaler 5
gflaive 0
macroscalp 5
minphase 5
monstrous cleave 0
power lance 5
power sword 5
razorfeathers 0
razorflower 5
razorflails 5
shaimesh blade 0
shardnet 10
shock prow 5
spiritleech tentacles 0
sslyth blade 0
stunclaw 5
talos 15
vebnomblade 5
chainsnares 2
cluster 3
grav claw 3
grisly 2
spirit probe 5
sp[linter racks 10

Again if someone could do a comparison I'd love that real much thx sorry for typos. Gonna keep doing xenos. Xenos homeboys copy paste these into tactics threads plsthx


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Harlequins

shadowseer 115
troupe master 65
troupe 14
death jester 50
solitaire 90
skyweavers 35
vw 65
star 60
wwg 95
fusion pistol 5
hallucinogen gl 0
haywire 15
neuro disruptor 5
prismatic cannon 15
plasma grenade 0
shirker 0
shuricann 10
shurpistol 0
star bolas 0
blade 0
caress 6
embrace 5
kiss 6
miststave 0
psword 5
zephyr 5


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ynnari visarch 85
yncarne 290
yvraine 120

the_scotsman wrote:Man.. what a time to have made my quarantine project making converted HQs and characters so I could field a full 2k grot army.

just play them as Guard now (or as Old-Marines just for the Memes)

TonyH122 wrote:Well, how else will they sell Chapter Approved at the end of the year?

As we get one now and a book needs to go to the printer 6 months in advance, even if there is one it won't have any big changes based actual playing the game

but anyway, expect the next Chapter Approved more like Somme 2021 or later

Sarouan wrote:
Harsh, but grots were never taken to do damage. They were there to grab objectives and be cheap enough to take lots of firepower elsewhere. They were too good for their role in comparison to ork boyz before.

Guess the actions you can now use in scenarios for objectives is also taken into account for the price of the units. It's not just a question of what they can kill for their cost anymore.

Still, the comparison with guardsmen is unfortunate.

What actions a grot can do that a guardman cannot ?? Your post is filled with inconsistency. This increase in grot point is massive (+ 66 %) and dumb.

I am salty about grots too make a grot thread in general please news and rumors happening now you know the drill:

Necrons
catacomb 145
crypt 85
Dlord 110
lord 70
overlord 85
anrakyri 130
deceiver 190
nightbringer 165
luminar 145
imo 150
zandry 135
orikan 110
tarzan the inf 100
varguard 120
immortals 18
warriors 12
deathmarks 16
flayed 14
lych 30
praets 23
stalker 95
scarabs 15
wraiths 45
dest 55
heavy dest 40
tb 17
anni barge 115
dd arc 180
heavy dest 40
mono 270
transc 195
ghost arc 140
doom 170
night 135
obe 390
tess 550
death ray 0
dd cann 0
gass blaster 0, 15 for pair
Gauss cannon 5 on vehicle other models 0
gauss flayer array 0
gauss flayer 0
gauyss flux arc 0
heat ray 30
heavy gauss cannon 0
particle beamer 10
particle caster 0
particle shredder 25
whip 0
rod of covenant 0
staff of light 0
synapit disintegraotr 0
tesla cannon 0
tesla carbine 0 pair 15
tesla destrucotr 0
spheere 0
beamer 15
twin hgc 40
twin tesla destructor 0

automation claws 0
cracling tendrils 0
feeder tmandibles 0
flair claws 0
hyperphase sword 0
massive form 0
visionc claws 0
void blades 0
void scythe 5
warscythe 0
whip coils 5
mandibles 0


canoptek cloak 10
chromometron 15
disp shield 0
fab claws 5
gloom prison 5
neb scopes 3
phylac 10
res orb 20
shadowloom 5
shieldvanes 3

Yeah, it's insane to me that grots and guardsmen are the same points. You want to bump 'em to 4ppm? That's fine by me, actions and less punishable morale makes that an easier pill to swallow but 5ppm is just bonkers IMO. Grots and brims should've been 4ppm, cultists 5ppm and guardsmen 6ppm.

someone did a nice imperial guard google sheet on redit

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g9NIG7ny9aBe9ruaW5U8Iwgm4KBAB3VNAe7As7HBnUk/htmlview?pru=AAABc2wP-EI*Gaf3QBoWCzdHP-g2a2NIoQ#gid=0

ORKS

big mek mega 85
grot oiler 5
SAG 95
KFF 60
deffkilla 125
warboss 70
weirdboy 75
snikrot 75
zag 95
ghazz 300
makari 65
badrukk 90
runt 5
mad dok 90
boyz 8
gretchin 5???????????????????????????????????
burnas 11
kommandos 9
manz 25
mek 25
grot oiler 5
nob with waa 85
nob 17
runt 5
nobz warbikes35
painboy 55
runtherd 40
tankbust 7
squig bom 10
boomdak 85
deffckopp 25
kbb 90
megatrak 90
rukka 110
shokkjump 100
stomboy 12
warbiker 27
trukk 60
battlewagon 135
bone 160
deff 55
flash gits 32
ammo 5
gorka 285
gunwagon 160
kanz 45
lootas 20
mek gunz 20
morkanaut 270
blitza 130
burna 125
dakka 110
wazbom 140
stompa 850
mekboy workshop 85
big shoota 5
bubblechukka 30
burnas
burna bottles
burna exhaust dakkadung
dakkagun
deffcannon
deffgun
deffstorm megashoota 0
grot blasta 0
grotzooka 10
heavy squig launcha 0
cannon 15
killa jet 0
kilkannon 15
kombi rokkit 10
kombi scorcha 15
kopta rokkit 25
kmb 10
km kannon 45
km slugga 5
kustom zappa 0
kustom shokk rifle 0
kustom shoota 3
lobba 20
mek spehsul 0
riven kannon 0
rokkit kannon 0
rokkit launcha 10
rokkit pistols 10
SAG 25
shoota 0
shotgun 0
scorcha 15
scorcha missiles 10
slugga 0
smasha gun 20
snagga ckaw snazzgun sqwuig bom squig launcha 0
stikkbom chukka 5
stikkbom flinga 5
squig bom 0
squig launcha 0
stick squig 0
supa shoota 10
supa gatler 0
supa rokkit 5
tbb 0
teleblasta 10
telemega 10
teleport kannon 30
twin big shoota 10
twin boomstic 0
wazbom 0
wing missiles 0
zzap gun 15
attack squig 0
big choppa 5
buzzsaw 0
choppa 0
deffrolla 20
deffdread claw 15
dread saw 10
drilla 0
grabba stikk 0
grabbin caw 5
grot prod 0
killsaw single 10 pair 15
klaw of gork/mork 0
megachoppa 0
nose dril 0
pclaw 10
stabba 5
saw blades 0
spinnin blades 0
tankhamma 10
urty syringe 0
waag 0
weirdboy staff 0
wreckin ball 5
ard case 0
cybork body 5
gitfinda squig 0
grot lash 0
grot rigga 5
KFF 20
squighand 0

Cheers @the_scotsman that saves me writing with my gammy arm, much appreciated.

I've already done a complete write up of Orks in their tactica thread (which is looking a bit less chaotic than this one)

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoiler:

I am salty about grots too make a grot thread in general please news and rumors happening now you know the drill:

Necrons
catacomb 145
crypt 85
Dlord 110
lord 70
overlord 85
anrakyri 130
deceiver 190
nightbringer 165
luminar 145
imo 150
zandry 135
orikan 110
tarzan the inf 100
varguard 120
immortals 18
warriors 12
deathmarks 16
flayed 14
lych 30
praets 23
stalker 95
scarabs 15
wraiths 45
dest 55
heavy dest 40
tb 17
anni barge 115
dd arc 180
heavy dest 40
mono 270
transc 195
ghost arc 140
doom 170
night 135
obe 390
tess 550
death ray 0
dd cann 0
gass blaster 0, 15 for pair
Gauss cannon 5 on vehicle other models 0
gauss flayer array 0
gauss flayer 0
gauyss flux arc 0
heat ray 30
heavy gauss cannon 0
particle beamer 10
particle caster 0
particle shredder 25
whip 0
rod of covenant 0
staff of light 0
synapit disintegraotr 0
tesla cannon 0
tesla carbine 0 pair 15
tesla destrucotr 0
spheere 0
beamer 15
twin hgc 40
twin tesla destructor 0

automation claws 0
cracling tendrils 0
feeder tmandibles 0
flair claws 0
hyperphase sword 0
massive form 0
visionc claws 0
void blades 0
void scythe 5
warscythe 0
whip coils 5
mandibles 0


canoptek cloak 10
chromometron 15
disp shield 0
fab claws 5
gloom prison 5
neb scopes 3
phylac 10
res orb 20
shadowloom 5
shieldvanes 3

It largely doesn't matter given that we're getting a new codex, but Necrons make it out OK aside from a few outliers. At 18pts per model, Immortals are really pushing their luck. Lychguard going to 30 pts each also hurts me (i'm literally painting up 10 now), but given how important being able to sit on one point and not die is going to be, it might be fair enough.

DDAs got off lightly with a 20pt increase. Wraiths and Tomb Blades seem like big winners, while Destroyers and scarabs make it out OK too. Our fast Attack slot continues to be where all our good stuff lives.

HQs basically untouched once you account for most weapons becoming free.

Obelisk gets the 40pts price increase. It needed nerfing, so fair enough.