Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AdMech don't seem to have been hit too hard but it's too early to tell for me how hard we got changed compared to other armies. Unsurprisingly our Heavy Support like Onagers, Disintegrators and Kastelan Robots got increases, but the Ironstrider haven't seen much change. Rangers and Vanguards are both 9 pts now, which put them on even footing but is hard to swallow with 5 pts Guarsdmen.

My collection went from 2658 to 3002 pts in total.

Now to wait for the FAQs, and those we won't get any leaks I'm afraid. Oh well, my thirst for leaks has been satiated at least. I'm grateful to the reviewers !

If those mistakes are in the final printed book, then I figure just use the current points from CA19 and ignore GW until they print a new Codex for the faction.

Genestealer Cults seem to have been hit by the nerfbat pretty badly for no good reason.

Putting up Genestealer purestrains up to 17 seems nuts.

GSC
Abominant 110
Acolyte iconward 60
jackal alphus 75
magus 85
familiars 15
patriarch 135
familiars 15
primus 80
Aco Hybrids 8
BB Infantry Squad 5
Neophytes 6
Aberants 22
Biophagus 40
Alchemicus 15
clamavus 60
metamprhs 11
kelemorph 80
Locus 55
Nexos 55
Purestrains 17
Sanctus 60
Achilles 40
Jackals 14
wolfquads 20
Cult Armored Sents 30
Cult Scout Sents 30
Brood Bros HW Team 6pts
Cult LR 130
Goliath Rockgrinder 90
Cult Chimera 65
Goliath 50
Tect Drill 80
Atalan Incin 15
Autocannon 10 infantry other models 15
Autogun
Autopistol 0
BC 20
Blasting Charge 0
Bolt Pitsol 2
Cache of Charges 10
Clearance incin 30
Demo Charge 10
Erad nova 15
exterminator 30
Flamer 5
frag grenade 0
grenade launcher 5
hand flamer 2
heavy bolter inf 10 others 15
hf 15
hml 15
heavy seismic 15
heavy mortar 15
heavy stubber 5
hc missile 5
jackal rifle 0
lascannon 15 others 20
laspistol 0
lasgun 0
array 0
liberator autostub 0
ml 10
missile 15 others 20
mortar 10
mmultilaser 5
multimelta 25
needle 0
plascannon 20
seismic 10
shotgun 0
silencer 5
storm bolter 3
twin autocannon 30
vanquisher bc 15
web pistol 2
webber 5
bonesword 5
chainsword 0
knife 0
drilldozer 0
familiar 0
force staff 0
improvised weapon 30
heavy power hammer 15
heavy rock cutter 10
heavy rock drill 15
heavy rock saw 10
hypermorph 0
imp weapn 0
injector goad 0
lash whip+Sword 5
metamorph claw 3
metamorph talon 2
whip 0
rending claws 0
power axe 5
power hammer 5
power maul 5
power pick 10
power sledge 0
purestrain talons 0
biodagger 0
sentinel chainsaw 2
injector claw 0
augur array 5
cult icon 10
cult vox 5
dozer blade 5
flare launcher 5
survey augur 5
track guards 5

Small vicotry a CSM is 1pt less than a tactical marine! and the same cost as a scout now haha
10k year old veterans are valued the same as a scout

Well yeah, they are not actively trying to soft-squat Chaos Marines, yet.

 The Phazer wrote:
Genestealer Cults seem to have been hit by the nerfbat pretty badly for no good reason.

Putting up Genestealer purestrains up to 17 seems nuts.

Well Purestrains was never a popular option and that trend continues. Maybe its damn time for GSC Genestealer set with rules worthy of that.

Also, Hand flamers went up 1 point so not that cheap anymore. Still worth it though.

I know someone with an extensive GSC collection, and I feel really bad for him. Tempers my excitement for custodes a bit.

Thousand Sons
Daemon Prince Tz 150
DP wings 185
Esorc 100
Esorc Disc 120
Sorceror 90
Termie Sorc 105
Ahriman 150
Ahriman Disc 170
Magnus 465
Cultists 6
Rubrics 18
Tzaangors 9
Helbrute 70
Scarab occult 30
Tzaangor Shaman 85
Chaos Spawn 23
Tzaangor Enlightened 18
Chaos Land Raider 175
Chaos Predator 90
Chaos Vindicator 130
Defiler 120
Forgefiend 85
mauler 130
Mutilith 135
Chaos Rhino 75
Heldrake 130
Flamers 23
Horrors 7
Blue horrors 7
Brimstone Horrors 5
Iridescent Horrors 8
Pink Horrors 8
Screamers 26
Autogun 0
Autopistol 0
Battlecannon 20
Combi Bolter 3
Combi flamer 5
combi melta 10
Ectoplasma Cannon 20
Fatecaster Longbow 2
Flamer 5
Frag Grenad 0
Hades Auto 25
Havoc Launcher 5
Heavy bolter 15
Heavy flamer 15
Heavy Stubber 5
Heavy Warpflamer 15
Plasma Cannon 20
Hellfyre 15
Inferno Bolt Pistol 0
Inferno Bolt Gun 0
Inferno Combibolter 3
krak 0
Lascannon 20
Magma Gun 5
Missile Launcher 20
Multimelta 25
Plasma pistol 5
pred auto 40
Reaper Auto 10
Shogun 0
Soulreaper 10
THB 30
THF 30
TLC 40
Warpflamer pistol 5
Warpflamer 8
Betentacled Maw 0
Brutal Assault Weapon 0
Chainsword 0
Daemon Jaws 0
Daemonic Axe 10
Defiler Claws 0
Defiler Scourge 10
Divining Spear 0
Enormous Claws 0
Force Staff 0
Force Sword 0
Helbrute Fists 15 single 30 pair
Helbrute Hammer 30
Heldrake Claws 0
Hellforged Sword 10
Lasher Tendrils 10
Malific Talons 0 for 1 2 for 15
Maulerfiend Fists 0
Scourge 25
Power Sword 5
Tzaangor Blades 0
Brayhorn 10
Icon 15
familiar 10
icon of flame 5
instrument of chaos 10


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, my most casual possible list, my "I am playing this for fun, we are going into this understanding you will win, I will lose, this is guaranteed, I am just looking for goofy moments" Went UP by nearly SEVEN HUNDRED POINTS. that's my all-grot army.

And my currently tournament-competitive, I will meet your meanest challenge, take on your ITC netlist, all comers bring it on Thousand Sons list went up by less than 100 points.

Good JOB, GW! I have never seen such horrible, awful balance all in one place before!!!

Every other terminator in the game: staying at same points.

Scarab occult: +5 pts up.

Noice.

Spreadsheet for AM/IG-changes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g9NIG7ny9aBe9ruaW5U8Iwgm4KBAB3VNAe7As7HBnUk/htmlview?pru=AAABc2wP-EI*Gaf3QBoWCzdHP-g2a2NIoQ#gid=0

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Every other terminator in the game: staying at same points.

Scarab occult: +5 pts up.

Noice.

orks went up +5 pts too

Anyone has the point changes on the acastus and the two big fw knights?

RedNoak wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Every other terminator in the game: staying at same points.

Scarab occult: +5 pts up.

Noice.

orks went up +5 pts too

Their wargear all went down though, so that's not really true (I think the opposite is true for SOT)

 Arbitrator wrote:
Just noticed the new Base and Layer paint are both £0.95 more expensive than the rest of the line.

They're the same price as Retributor Armour, Stormhost Silver and the like.

Sotahullu wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
Genestealer Cults seem to have been hit by the nerfbat pretty badly for no good reason.

Putting up Genestealer purestrains up to 17 seems nuts.

Well Purestrains was never a popular option and that trend continues. Maybe its damn time for GSC Genestealer set with rules worthy of that.

Also, Hand flamers went up 1 point so not that cheap anymore. Still worth it though.

I think overall GSC isn't to bad. stealers were not used anyway, if you wanted them you went with an actual Nid detachment. Abbarents got kicked while they were down but Acolytes only going up by 1 point is better then I feared.
Same with hand flamers going up 1. They are still very much worth it at 2 points.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Every other terminator in the game: staying at same points.

Scarab occult: +5 pts up.

Noice.

Deathshroud went up by 7pts, you know that super effective unit that was used by everyone

 Ordana wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
Genestealer Cults seem to have been hit by the nerfbat pretty badly for no good reason.

Putting up Genestealer purestrains up to 17 seems nuts.

Well Purestrains was never a popular option and that trend continues. Maybe its damn time for GSC Genestealer set with rules worthy of that.

Also, Hand flamers went up 1 point so not that cheap anymore. Still worth it though.

I think overall GSC isn't to bad. stealers were not used anyway, if you wanted them you went with an actual Nid detachment. Abbarents got kicked while they were down but Acolytes only going up by 1 point is better then I feared.
Same with hand flamers going up 1. They are still very much worth it at 2 points.

GSC is fine if you never used them for melee. point hikes somewhat offset by the fact that GSC benefit pretty well from move and fire heavy and to-hit debuff caps and stuff. They just won't work at all as some kind of "melee based ambush army" anymore. Won't have nearly enough CPs to make that function. Naked bikes for capping points, ridgerunners, neophytes with Mining Lasers in Goliaths, all those things work.

The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Doohicky wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Every other terminator in the game: staying at same points.

Scarab occult: +5 pts up.

Noice.

Deathshroud went up by 7pts, you know that super effective unit that was used by everyone

Don't They have a Bodyguard rule? I think this will be valuable

Looking over drukhari...there's just no rhyme or reason here. I genuinely don't get it at all.

Currently fairly useful models, like Ravagers, Razorwing Jetfighters, Voidravens, which are poised to benefit the most from the new ruleset: Small nerfs, 5-15% on average. There's some obvious stuff that went up like dissie ravagers, which can now carve themselves out of melee combat pretty good.

But then, there's units that will very obviously get penalized by the new rules, like Hellions (no more fall back and shoot, anti-synergy with their special fall back and charge ability) and Reavers (no more fall back and shoot+no more cover for bikes in general)...and those are the ones that get the big nerf hammers.

Just...why? What was the goal?Just to keep people playing the exact same armies that they're currently playing, but using few models? Why would you use a new edition launch to keep armies basically exactly the same, and make units people already don't use worse?

Gotta make sure nobody ever considers using the brand new Howling Banshee or Incubi rules! HIt them both with nerfs!

It is worth saying that we don't have the full picture. THe FAQ may make changes that explain things. I fully expect the GC one to be quite sweeping in its changes...

There will still be loads of odd point costs, that's for sure. The formulaic nature of some of the tweaking gives that away.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Lots of these point changes seem to have been done with a snapshot of 40k of almost a year ago when these units were good and other units weren’t as good. Not taking into account the effects of prior FAQs and PA books. Grots were decent detachment fillers but didn’t do any lifting. The last PA book started pushing orks toward more mech even before these edition changes or point nerfs. Almost as of the rules team wasn’t looking at point changes as a whole. Which is why grots ate the same cost as guard... maybe if we are lucky grots can benefit from ork clan rules now but that’s unlikely

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Presumably some models are available at a discount because they're narratively common or make up the bulk of the army; and similarly other units pay a premium to ensure relative scarcity.

Cultists are more expensive than guardsmen because otherwise you don't see Chaos Space Marine infantry in Heretic Astartes armies – and in turn the CSM infantry get a minor discount in comparison with Imperial Space Marines.

Building armies that are at odds with GW's narrative is possible, but you'll pay a premium for it.

Thescotsman's all-grot army is a good example. It's not how ork armies appear in the fiction/background, so there's an in-game incentive against it.

Sadly I think I already know the answer to this

The goonhammer article mentions no more Elysians but doesnt make any reference to Renegades and Heretics?

Can we still hold out hope that these guys haven't been Legeneded?

I still miss the good old IA13 days :-(

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Basically what GW have done is this:
Do you have a base and a stats line?
Yes
5pts minimum

but?!... t2 and um 12" gun an...
5pts minimum, GTFO

Given FW thus far didnt get Legend-rules, I would think it's more likely that Chaplain Dreads, Elysians and Co. get squatted old-school.

 Kinetochore wrote:
Sadly I think I already know the answer to this

The goonhammer article mentions no more Elysians but doesnt make any reference to Renegades and Heretics?

Can we still hold out hope that these guys haven't been Legeneded?

I still miss the good old IA13 days :-(

I believe they are not mentioned as a section under the FW points in CA so yes, assume them to be axed.

 Latro_ wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Basically what GW have done is this:
Do you have a base and a stats line?
Yes
5pts minimum

but?!... t2 and um 12" gun an...
5pts minimum, GTFO

It's a good thing they raised points so they can be more granular!

Keep in mind that horrors create some interesting interactions with the new objective actions, unless the new horrors don't add to the unit anymore.

They're really ugly objective holders and actually getting them to stop earning CP through actions is actually a struggle when the unit is just adding more models as they die.

That and the analysis may be right and most of the point values are formulaic with an absolute floor of 5.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
The grot & brimstone horrors thing is pant-on-head stupid or what?
Why are those clearly inferior model pointed the same as a guardsman?

Gw sold enough of them. Buy other stuff. Message extra clear to make it obvious enough