Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

gungo wrote:
So based on FAQs and points the winners in 9th are
Ad mech
Space marines in general
Custodes
Astra militarum and scions

Possibly ~630 pt castellan if that price point sticks

There seems to be a reoccurring common theme with these armies that I can’t quite figure out...

Thousand Sons made out pretty well. Min rubric marines basically didn't go up, because of the free staff. Scarabs went up, but they were getting pretty strong. Daemon engines are super happy. Tzaangors up just 1. Exalteds down 20.

Marines are also the faction that took most of the largest increases, so, I question the logic to determine winners.

How are scarabs strong?

Exalted are cheap indeed, but they suffer from the same problem: as long as they are out of combat they are just overpriced sorcerers, and we don't really want them in combat to begin with due to lack of gear and support. Guess the backfield babysitter sorcerer can swap to an exalted and buff nearby Defilers now. It's something.

Tzaangors are not "+1", they are +1 after CA so basically +2. 9ppm on tzaangors is not a very good deal. Not terrible but not good either.

Scalpers break up the blitz and units. My mate finds his hobby by selling canis rex on ebay, he buys 10 at a time.

You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Pretty much this. Argue the points. Don't be so petty as to throw insults at others. These forums have rules, and it's a better environment for everyone if we can all follow them.

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Extremely rich coming from you chap....

At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

jivardi wrote:
At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

I'm happy they managed to detect the problem before it came to be an actual issue in game. I hope they fix the core issue, though. That is, Ap as a modifier to the save characteristic, and not to the dice roll itself.

GW made it right, can't complain about that. And lol at the $500 ebay scalpers, you ain't getting close to that

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Extremely rich coming from you chap....

I think you're making my point for me here re: inability to appreciate the line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and attacking them personally.

But I will not get into it any further than this, I don't want to make even more work for the mods to have to clean up later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:
At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

The "complaining" was necessary, as it is what prompted the FAQ change. They even said it themselves - they didn't realize what they had done until people pointed it out to them.

yukishiro1 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Extremely rich coming from you chap....

I think you're making my point for me here re: inability to appreciate the line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and attacking them personally.

But I will not get into it any further than this, I don't want to make even more work for the mods to have to clean up later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:
At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

The "complaining" was necessary, as it is what prompted the FAQ change. They even said it themselves - they didn't realize what they had done until people pointed it out to them.

Either way it got changed. And some posters, rudely, pointed out to me that it exists elsewhere and that I couldn't possibly know what GW intended.

Then again I'm not a WAAC player and so I don't play strictly by RAW.

Anyway.

I was reading over the FAQ article just to see if there was a preview I missed, and they sign off with this:

With that, everything should be in line for the new edition!

Did I have stroke and imagine Psychic Awakening? Because I'm pretty sure there are 8 books with no FAQ whatsoever and 1 book with an outdated FAQ.

Are there _really_ no issues with those books? I don't own any myself, so can't say, but... really?

Lots of issues with all of them, not to mention that they completely forgot to do a FAQ for Phoenix Rising.

Voss wrote:
Anyway.

I was reading over the FAQ article just to see if there was a preview I missed, and they sign off with this:

With that, everything should be in line for the new edition!

Did I have stroke and imagine Psychic Awakening? Because I'm pretty sure there are 8 books with no FAQ whatsoever and 1 book with an outdated FAQ.

Are there _really_ no issues with those books? I don't own any myself, so can't say, but... really?

Ironically the Greater Good FAQ has been 9th edition edited.
No idea why they skipped alot of the others, yet we still have alot of ubsolved issues and rules that are now utterly redundant but that GW FAQ's for you.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

gungo wrote:
So based on FAQs and points the winners in 9th are
Ad mech
Space marines in general
Custodes
Astra militarum and scions

Possibly ~630 pt castellan if that price point sticks

There seems to be a reoccurring common theme with these armies that I can’t quite figure out...

Thousand Sons made out pretty well. Min rubric marines basically didn't go up, because of the free staff. Scarabs went up, but they were getting pretty strong. Daemon engines are super happy. Tzaangors up just 1. Exalteds down 20.

Marines are also the faction that took most of the largest increases, so, I question the logic to determine winners.

Marines didnt take the largest increases on the new super broken stuff in indomitous though those were confirmed at their rediculously under costed points.

Competitive lists especially primaris focused lists came out of this pretty will all in all.

 Leth wrote:

Darsath wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Pretty much this. Argue the points. Don't be so petty as to throw insults at others. These forums have rules, and it's a better environment for everyone if we can all follow them.

Cant argue a point if it has no foundation other than an immediate emotional reaction. There are certain arguements that it will be such a waste of time to argue against, because to reach that point requires a fundamental rejection of reality, and any attempt to argue the points would require that you acccept part of that unreality as truth.

At some point you have to accept that, as my grandfather used to say, “that *individual is craaaaazy” and react accordingly.

Once you resort to insulting and berating, you can't proclaim yourself as better than they are. Even if you believe you are correct.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hey guys, lets tone it down, trying to settle scores or determine who "eats crow" isn't the topic of the thread. Take it to PM's or just let it be.

I disagree, they need to be told. This whole thread is an actual joke full of people that are genuinely vile in how they conduct themselves on this forum. If they aren't going to be banned, they can get the backlash for acting like burks from those on the forum that are sick of it.

You can't have it both ways, you can't let a load of the crap slide and then come down on the people that take issue with it.

Personally, I think the mods should be a little more liberal with the Banhammer - that might reduce some of the crap we see here all too frequently. Picking a fight with them directly, however, doesn't seem like a good idea.

Also noticed that taking Magnus as the Warlord now allows Thousand Sons to still use the new <Cult> Relics. Between that and only going up 20 points, Magnus came out of this okay.

Yeah Sons came out cheap overall.

Also no mention on the no smite limit per turn, so until this get FAQ'd, Sons will pretty much roflstomp everything.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Yeah Sons came out cheap overall.

Also no mention on the no smite limit per turn, so until this get FAQ'd, Sons will pretty much roflstomp everything.

Not if the casting cost goes up every time.

There will be a Day-1 BRB FAQ for the multi-smite thing, they have told playtesters (e.g. Tabletop Titans) this is not intended and not to play with it.

The thing with GK and TS not getting infinite smites is almost certainly an oversight that will also be fixed, but I don't think they have clearly told anyone it is a mistake.

Ice_can wrote:

Voss wrote:
Anyway.

I was reading over the FAQ article just to see if there was a preview I missed, and they sign off with this:

With that, everything should be in line for the new edition!

Did I have stroke and imagine Psychic Awakening? Because I'm pretty sure there are 8 books with no FAQ whatsoever and 1 book with an outdated FAQ.

Are there _really_ no issues with those books? I don't own any myself, so can't say, but... really?

Ironically the Greater Good FAQ has been 9th edition edited.
No idea why they skipped alot of the others, yet we still have alot of ubsolved issues and rules that are now utterly redundant but that GW FAQ's for you.

Yeah, I just noticed four. Either I missed them before or they've since wandered in.

The organization is confusing, since it seems to be date, book type, then alphabetical, but with glaring exceptions (and starts with exceptions)

gungo wrote:
So based on FAQs and points the winners in 9th are
Ad mech
Space marines in general
Custodes
Astra militarum and scions

Possibly ~630 pt castellan if that price point sticks

There seems to be a reoccurring common theme with these armies that I can’t quite figure out...

Based on what?

Goonhammer did some actual comparisons post point-adjustments, based on a median of how much army X's costs increased. It's a long read but quite interesting, and they came to the following conclusion:

The Big Winners:
Adeptus Custodes
Thousand Sons
Imperial Knights
Harlequins

The Moderate Winners:
Death Guard
Adepta Sororitas
Space Marines*
Grey Knights
Necrons
*With the adendum that Centurion spam lists are extreme Losers.

So-So:
Chaos Knights
Craftworlds
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Dark Angels
Astra Militarum
Blood Angels
Adeptus Mechanicus
Deathwatch
Space Wolves
Tau

The Losers
Orks
Drukhari
Tyranids
Genestealer Cults

someone on the redits did this

all the pts for all the factions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IRnHYqQfUNymy6be2vn9iZAczaR8HTblA-Id1qEBnlU/htmlview?usp=sharing&pru=AAABc24w5PQ*QWPaFZqNZ1bb0De8xNlK5w#

Since psychic focus seems to be gone, I'd bet T. Sons are among the biggest losers of 9th edition.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Yeah Sons came out cheap overall.

Also no mention on the no smite limit per turn, so until this get FAQ'd, Sons will pretty much roflstomp everything.

Not if the casting cost goes up every time.

It's worth mentioning that 1kSons and Grey Knights both look to have lost their immunity to the gradually increasing Smite WC cost.

yukishiro1 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Extremely rich coming from you chap....

I think you're making my point for me here re: inability to appreciate the line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and attacking them personally.

But I will not get into it any further than this, I don't want to make even more work for the mods to have to clean up later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:
At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

The "complaining" was necessary, as it is what prompted the FAQ change. They even said it themselves - they didn't realize what they had done until people pointed it out to them.

They also claimed 1++ saves "wasn't intentional" despite the Crusade rules explicitly stating they exist.

At any rate, it is nice to see GW bow to pressure and ensure everyone that wants one can actually purchase a box. Imagine what we could accomplish by being as vocal about their rules and prices as a single box of minis..................

Leggy wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Yeah Sons came out cheap overall.

Also no mention on the no smite limit per turn, so until this get FAQ'd, Sons will pretty much roflstomp everything.

Not if the casting cost goes up every time.

It's worth mentioning that 1kSons and Grey Knights both look to have lost their immunity to the gradually increasing Smite WC cost.

Psychic focus was a matched play rule. Might be reserved in the matched play rulebook together with the rule of three etc.

I will say that I am a huge fan of the amount of wargear that dropped to zero point, and instead had their cost baked into the unit that uses it. It's going to make list building so much easier.

Blastaar wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
You can disagree with the mods all you want, but it rarely ends well. When they tell you to stop personally attacking other people, you can't just say "nope, disagree, going to keep doing it." It doesn't work that way, as I suspect someone is about to find out.

There is a difference between someone complaining about GW - no matter how unfair their complaint might be - and responding to that by personally attacking them. People who can't grasp that difference shouldn't post here, there are plenty of other places on the internet to go if you want to attack other people on a personal level because they have opinions you disagree with.

Extremely rich coming from you chap....

I think you're making my point for me here re: inability to appreciate the line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and attacking them personally.

But I will not get into it any further than this, I don't want to make even more work for the mods to have to clean up later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:
At least my Callidus in my SoB army will still cleave through TH/SS terminators.

All this complaining about the 2++ save SS was, as I correctly cautioned, was unnecessary.

It feels good to be right.

The "complaining" was necessary, as it is what prompted the FAQ change. They even said it themselves - they didn't realize what they had done until people pointed it out to them.

They also claimed 1++ saves "wasn't intentional" despite the Crusade rules explicitly stating they exist.

At any rate, it is nice to see GW bow to pressure and ensure everyone that wants one can actually purchase a box. Imagine what we could accomplish by being as vocal about their rules and prices as a single box of minis..................

thats in narrative tho, i doubt narrative players will play with the whole lolololl 1+ save ignores armor silliness

 Latro_ wrote:
someone on the redits did this

all the pts for all the factions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IRnHYqQfUNymy6be2vn9iZAczaR8HTblA-Id1qEBnlU/htmlview?usp=sharing&pru=AAABc24w5PQ*QWPaFZqNZ1bb0De8xNlK5w#

Nice!
Looking at my army, there are some truly bizarre huge point increase.
Condemnor boltgun going 1pts->5pts ???
Hand flamer being the same 1pts->5pts, except on seraphim where it's 2pts, but the weapon doesn't even use the BS skill so why different point value on HQ???


I thought heavy bolters and heavy flamers and twin heavy bolters taking such a huge rise was weird, but then I noticed it's only on vehicles, not on infantry, so fine. I mean, heavy bolters are on our rhino chassis that went up a bit but not too much (the exorcist went 90->150 but if you take the main weapon into account it's actually 130->150 or 160 -> 180), heavy flamers are on the penitent engine-type stuff where the chassis even went down in cost! The big increase to twin heavy bolter is still a bit weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apologist wrote:
Thescotsman's all-grot army is a good example. It's not how ork armies appear in the fiction/background, so there's an in-game incentive against it.

The Revolushun is part of the lore though.

soooooo do we gits get the crown for the most nerfed unit yet?

grots went up 70% thats gotta win us an award, yes?

those naughty naughty gretchin... always breakin stuff...