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In case it hasn't been mentioned, it looks like we now have 9th edition FAQs for the Imperial Armour Indexes.

 Ghaz wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned, it looks like we now have 9th edition FAQs for the Imperial Armour Indexes.

But weren't there supposed to be new books?

 Crimson wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned, it looks like we now have 9th edition FAQs for the Imperial Armour Indexes.

But weren't there supposed to be new books?

There should be a new Codex Necrons not too far in the future, but it still received a FAQ.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Out of the "ridiculous number" of Lieutenant models, there's really just two available for purchase:
The Reiver and the one from Wake the Dead(who arguably is more Ultramarines than anybody else).
There's three that came out with respective codices(DA got one, BA got one, and SW got one)...but those books also didn't see anything else outside of splash release bundles of the Primaris Intercessor/Aggressor kits and upgrade frames.
Then there are three Lieutenants that are sprue-locked(Two in Dark Imperium, one with Bolt Rifle and one with BP+Power Sword. One in the Vanguard Start Collecting that comes with the weird mix of Oculus Bolt Carbine and Grav-Chute), and two of those are unavailable now.
And then there are three that I know of that were event/regional exclusives(500th store model with the Stalker Bolt Rifle, the one from Conquest, and the Made to Order one), meaning they're gone and dusted now.

Top 20 Lieutenants actually kinda hammers home that even though people love to snark about it, there's less available than people like to pretend.

So out of the 11 that actually existed, 5 are unavailable right now for purchase(with 2 potentially coming back in a Start Collecting set) and 3(potentially 4) are subfaction specific, and 3 available for purchase at the moment(one of which is locked in a Start Collecting set).

There is a 12th Lieutenant model coming with Indomitus, which is an entirely new loadout that can't be easily kitbashed from currently available parts...which seems to be the caveat for how these things are happening.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned, it looks like we now have 9th edition FAQs for the Imperial Armour Indexes.

But weren't there supposed to be new books?

There should be a new Codex Necrons not too far in the future, but it still received a FAQ.

Yeah, Codex: Necrons should be first or second out the gate this edition, probably first to assuage a little more of the furore over Codex: More Codexes being replaced inside a year, and it got FAQ’d, as did the other prime(aris) candidate.
I expect the remaining Psychic Awakening books will also receive errata at least fairly soon.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Out of the "ridiculous number" of Lieutenant models, there's really just two available for purchase:
The Reiver and the one from Wake the Dead(who arguably is more Ultramarines than anybody else).
There's three that came out with respective codices(DA got one, BA got one, and SW got one)...but those books also didn't see anything else outside of splash release bundles of the Primaris Intercessor/Aggressor kits and upgrade frames.
Then there are three Lieutenants that are sprue-locked(Two in Dark Imperium, one with Bolt Rifle and one with BP+Power Sword. One in the Vanguard Start Collecting that comes with the weird mix of Oculus Bolt Carbine and Grav-Chute), and two of those are unavailable now.
And then there are three that I know of that were event/regional exclusives(500th store model with the Stalker Bolt Rifle, the one from Conquest, and the Made to Order one), meaning they're gone and dusted now.

Top 20 Lieutenants actually kinda hammers home that even though people love to snark about it, there's less available than people like to pretend.

So out of the 11 that actually existed, 5 are unavailable right now for purchase(with 2 potentially coming back in a Start Collecting set) and 3(potentially 4) are subfaction specific, and 3 available for purchase at the moment(one of which is locked in a Start Collecting set).

There is a 12th Lieutenant model coming with Indomitus, which is an entirely new loadout that can't be easily kitbashed from currently available parts...which seems to be the caveat for how these things are happening.

Whilst I understand your point, how many warbosses are currently available? 1 ancient metal one and one locked in a nob box... Or Archons? 1? The main 'leader' characters from those factions. The point is there are more lieutenants than some factions entire roster of characters. I think that is what rubs most people up the wrong way about lieutenants.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Yes. The short version of your message is "It's actually just 12 kits, 5 of which are not available for purchase anymore".
And, yeah ok. There is two Canoness kits, one of which are not available for purchase anymore. That's 2 kits. That's less than 12 kits. That's more than 1 kit. Each of those kits required to be designed, and then made, and then were sold. Each time someone was designing one of those kits, they were not designing something else. Each time a machine was making one of those kits, they were not making something else. I don't know what to add, because I don't understand your argument if I'm being honest.
12 is less than 13, I agree with you on that, but I don't think it is the crux of your argument somehow. I mean, I just don't see how being sprue-locked, or subfaction-locked, make some model not being a different kit?

 Ghaz wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned, it looks like we now have 9th edition FAQs for the Imperial Armour Indexes.

With links:

Chaos: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/k3N17E2KY77rMqZI.pdf

IG: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/tgQpUPFPrrnFQieo.pdf

Corpse-worshiping loyalist dogs: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cukA8B58izV43IRs.pdf

Xenos filth: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/EunC78FGirlq7ljn.pdf

I love how they bothered to update models that they didn't give 9th ed points to.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Out of the "ridiculous number" of Lieutenant models, there's really just two available for purchase:
The Reiver and the one from Wake the Dead(who arguably is more Ultramarines than anybody else).
There's three that came out with respective codices(DA got one, BA got one, and SW got one)...but those books also didn't see anything else outside of splash release bundles of the Primaris Intercessor/Aggressor kits and upgrade frames.
Then there are three Lieutenants that are sprue-locked(Two in Dark Imperium, one with Bolt Rifle and one with BP+Power Sword. One in the Vanguard Start Collecting that comes with the weird mix of Oculus Bolt Carbine and Grav-Chute), and two of those are unavailable now.
And then there are three that I know of that were event/regional exclusives(500th store model with the Stalker Bolt Rifle, the one from Conquest, and the Made to Order one), meaning they're gone and dusted now.

Top 20 Lieutenants actually kinda hammers home that even though people love to snark about it, there's less available than people like to pretend.

So out of the 11 that actually existed, 5 are unavailable right now for purchase(with 2 potentially coming back in a Start Collecting set) and 3(potentially 4) are subfaction specific, and 3 available for purchase at the moment(one of which is locked in a Start Collecting set).

There is a 12th Lieutenant model coming with Indomitus, which is an entirely new loadout that can't be easily kitbashed from currently available parts...which seems to be the caveat for how these things are happening.

It's a release, it takes resources from a finite pool. That means it is effectively eating up a production slot that could be used for xenos. That even most Marine players see it as a wasted production slot is doubly tragic.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Out of the "ridiculous number" of Lieutenant models, there's really just two available for purchase:
The Reiver and the one from Wake the Dead(who arguably is more Ultramarines than anybody else).
There's three that came out with respective codices(DA got one, BA got one, and SW got one)...but those books also didn't see anything else outside of splash release bundles of the Primaris Intercessor/Aggressor kits and upgrade frames.
Then there are three Lieutenants that are sprue-locked(Two in Dark Imperium, one with Bolt Rifle and one with BP+Power Sword. One in the Vanguard Start Collecting that comes with the weird mix of Oculus Bolt Carbine and Grav-Chute), and two of those are unavailable now.
And then there are three that I know of that were event/regional exclusives(500th store model with the Stalker Bolt Rifle, the one from Conquest, and the Made to Order one), meaning they're gone and dusted now.

Top 20 Lieutenants actually kinda hammers home that even though people love to snark about it, there's less available than people like to pretend.

So out of the 11 that actually existed, 5 are unavailable right now for purchase(with 2 potentially coming back in a Start Collecting set) and 3(potentially 4) are subfaction specific, and 3 available for purchase at the moment(one of which is locked in a Start Collecting set).

There is a 12th Lieutenant model coming with Indomitus, which is an entirely new loadout that can't be easily kitbashed from currently available parts...which seems to be the caveat for how these things are happening.

It's a release, it takes resources from a finite pool. That means it is effectively eating up a production slot that could be used for xenos. That even most Marine players see it as a wasted production slot is doubly tragic.

Aren't Primaris Lientenauts the new "new-sculptor" test of Games Workshop? Thats why theres so many of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I think it's important to discount redundant models for marines as well. 13 primaris lieutenants is really just 1 new kit (IE a primaris lieutenant).

Why? No it's 13 new kits.

Is it though?

Out of the "ridiculous number" of Lieutenant models, there's really just two available for purchase:
The Reiver and the one from Wake the Dead(who arguably is more Ultramarines than anybody else).
There's three that came out with respective codices(DA got one, BA got one, and SW got one)...but those books also didn't see anything else outside of splash release bundles of the Primaris Intercessor/Aggressor kits and upgrade frames.
Then there are three Lieutenants that are sprue-locked(Two in Dark Imperium, one with Bolt Rifle and one with BP+Power Sword. One in the Vanguard Start Collecting that comes with the weird mix of Oculus Bolt Carbine and Grav-Chute), and two of those are unavailable now.
And then there are three that I know of that were event/regional exclusives(500th store model with the Stalker Bolt Rifle, the one from Conquest, and the Made to Order one), meaning they're gone and dusted now.

Top 20 Lieutenants actually kinda hammers home that even though people love to snark about it, there's less available than people like to pretend.

So out of the 11 that actually existed, 5 are unavailable right now for purchase(with 2 potentially coming back in a Start Collecting set) and 3(potentially 4) are subfaction specific, and 3 available for purchase at the moment(one of which is locked in a Start Collecting set).

There is a 12th Lieutenant model coming with Indomitus, which is an entirely new loadout that can't be easily kitbashed from currently available parts...which seems to be the caveat for how these things are happening.

This doesn't make it any better. In fact a lot of them being unavailable makes it worse. They do not benefit even the people who like Primaris Lieutenants! Also many of them having duplicate loadouts is just utter waste. Lack of options is the biggest flaw of the Primaris, so if GW is gonna waste production capacity to make twelve different Primaris Liutenants then at least use that to give us twelve different loadouts!

Yeah, I'm not sure how GW not even bothering to sell the fething things that they cadded up and made molds for makes it not a thing they did.

Let's see, 9 kits they could have made instead of 9 limited-release lieutenants...

-plastic warboss
-skitarii commander
-autarch on foot
-archon modeled for reaver bike
-Succubus modeled for reaver bike
-New Chaos Lord
-New DG Chaos Lord
-Tau Breacher HQ
-Tyranid Warrior Prime

Show of hands, which would be better additions to improve the health of the game Warhammer 40,000, those models or 9 limited edition primaris lieutenants that aren't currently sold?

Space Marines have strangled the game so thoroughly that people forget that they've done gak like released so many primaris marines they haven't even bothered putting them out in kits (suppressors) or they've already fething obsoleted both loadouts of one of the original units (reivers). Or they don't remember that time that they put out an entire second mass battle wargame just for marines vs marines matchups, then squatted that one edition later.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure how GW not even bothering to sell the fething things that they cadded up and made molds for makes it not a thing they did.

Let's see, 9 kits they could have made instead of 9 limited-release lieutenants...

-plastic warboss
-skitarii commander
-autarch on foot
-archon modeled for reaver bike
-Succubus modeled for reaver bike
-New Chaos Lord
-New DG Chaos Lord
-Tau Breacher HQ
-Tyranid Warrior Prime

Show of hands, which would be better additions to improve the health of the game Warhammer 40,000, those models or 9 limited edition primaris lieutenants that aren't currently sold?

Space Marines have strangled the game so thoroughly that people forget that they've done gak like released so many primaris marines they haven't even bothered putting them out in kits (suppressors) or they've already fething obsoleted both loadouts of one of the original units (reivers). Or they don't remember that time that they put out an entire second mass battle wargame just for marines vs marines matchups, then squatted that one edition later.

Right, and even if you made all of those units monopose/monorule above, *it would still be very valuable for the various armies*. GW could put the bare minimum into a release like that... and it would still be appreciated. That's how ridiculous the disparity is.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


It's a release, it takes resources from a finite pool. That means it is effectively eating up a production slot that could be used for xenos. That even most Marine players see it as a wasted production slot is doubly tragic.

Sure it's a release, but it's also a very unfair comparison to argue that marines are getting 30+ releases when nearly half of them require basically the lowest possible level of resources on GW's behalf. I wouldn't be surprised if GW could put out ten Lientenauts for the same level of design & production man-hours as one Silent King or Triumph of Saint Katherine kit.

And why do we need those massive kits anyway? Design and release a leader+honor guard kit aka old Marneus anyway and save the resources

 Platuan4th wrote:
I love how they bothered to update models that they didn't give 9th ed points to.

Legends units should get updated to new edition standards regarding blasts and such just wont get points.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I love how they bothered to update models that they didn't give 9th ed points to.

With lack of communication on the subject, my solution is to use the Chapter Approved: 2019 values, if there are any for a given unit.

 xttz wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


It's a release, it takes resources from a finite pool. That means it is effectively eating up a production slot that could be used for xenos. That even most Marine players see it as a wasted production slot is doubly tragic.

Sure it's a release, but it's also a very unfair comparison to argue that marines are getting 30+ releases when nearly half of them require basically the lowest possible level of resources on GW's behalf. I wouldn't be surprised if GW could put out ten Lientenauts for the same level of design & production man-hours as one Silent King or Triumph of Saint Katherine kit.

But 10 man-sized Xenos/Chaos champions would still be more useful than 10 Lieutenants.

 Galas wrote:

Aren't Primaris Lientenauts the new "new-sculptor" test of Games Workshop? Thats why theres so many of them.

Test sculpts generally don't make it into production. You see glimpses of them inside GW HQ, but they generally aren't production pieces- they effectively consume no manufacturing resources or time.
There may well be exceptions, but not generally.

 xttz wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


It's a release, it takes resources from a finite pool. That means it is effectively eating up a production slot that could be used for xenos. That even most Marine players see it as a wasted production slot is doubly tragic.

Sure it's a release, but it's also a very unfair comparison to argue that marines are getting 30+ releases when nearly half of them require basically the lowest possible level of resources on GW's behalf. I wouldn't be surprised if GW could put out ten Lientenauts for the same level of design & production man-hours as one Silent King or Triumph of Saint Katherine kit.

That argument is a weird one. They could just as easily be Dracons, Tyranid Primes, Sisters Prelates (or whatever the title is), Autarchs (there are a couple options that went missing) or whatever.
Pretty much every faction has 'lieutenant' equivalents that are just gone or are unsupported. If its so trivial to do marine ones, there isn't any excuse for that.


Its the same problem with yet another marine wave.
No one is terribly surprised they're in the launch box. But that there's yet another wave queued up already past that? Crazy infuriating for people who just went 2 or even 3 editions without a significant update.
While some people would surely rather the Necron update was a different army, the number of complaints about a necron update is very small, because its been 5 years (and will almost certainly be at least another 5 before it happens again) and frankly it gives other people hope that more xenos updates may happen. But following up with yet more marines and likely Deathwatch? That's just kind of asinine.

If the likely post launch releases were necrons, craftworlds, tyranids, dark eldar, you'd have people absolutely cheering. Instead they're grumbling. Again. Because it really has gotten to the point that Marines have individual FOC slots that have gotten bigger than entire armies. And they're queuing up more, and setting precedents for even yet more. (XX on bike, XY with whatever armor, etc). There are now as many primaris chaplains as there are generic Dark Eldar HQs.

Unfortunately, the disproportionate attention lavished on marines becomes a snowballing, self-fulfilling prophecy as more people start playing them which means they make up an even larger percentage of the game which means GW's shareholder orientation means they get even more releases, and the cycle repeats.

It's even worse right now because they made them hugely overpowered, which only pushes the exodus further, and in turn creates even more incentive to make more marine kits since they sell like hotcakes.

40k has always been a game of marines + friends, but it's never been worse than now because at least in the past marines weren't usually so overpowered compared to the friends.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Unfortunately, the disproportionate attention lavished on marines becomes a snowballing, self-fulfilling prophecy as more people start playing them which means they make up an even larger percentage of the game which means GW's shareholder orientation means they get even more releases, and the cycle repeats.

It's even worse right now because they made them hugely overpowered, which only pushes the exodus further, and in turn creates even more incentive to make more marine kits since they sell like hotcakes.

40k has always been a game of marines + friends, but it's never been worse than now because at least in the past marines weren't usually so overpowered compared to the friends.

Depends.

I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP", but marines have had their moments to shine through and trash everyone else before. We're not even a year into "Marines fething everywhere ruining everyone else" yet remember. The newold... oldnew? Marine codex and its sups are less than a year old. Can't forget it. It just feels like 2020 has lasted for a decade.

stratigo wrote:

I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP",

A time of legends, barely recalled and often misremembered by players these days.

Also not particularly relevant to just releasing models to keep the lines up to date and fundamentally viable. Or even just something new to paint.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Unfortunately, the disproportionate attention lavished on marines becomes a snowballing, self-fulfilling prophecy as more people start playing them which means they make up an even larger percentage of the game which means GW's shareholder orientation means they get even more releases, and the cycle repeats.

It's even worse right now because they made them hugely overpowered, which only pushes the exodus further, and in turn creates even more incentive to make more marine kits since they sell like hotcakes.

40k has always been a game of marines + friends, but it's never been worse than now because at least in the past marines weren't usually so overpowered compared to the friends.

Over clocking primaris really hurt 8th edition. The most numerous army should be more carefully balanced as nobody can escape playing against them. Even a for fun primaris army is a drag to play against. And you can't play for fun against them.

But I also think at this point it would be hard to fix primaris now that there are more primaris units filling in the holes of the army. They don't feel compatible with the game style that is 40k.

Voss wrote:

stratigo wrote:

I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP",

A time of legends, barely recalled and often misremembered by players these days.

Also not particularly relevant to just releasing models to keep the lines up to date and fundamentally viable. Or even just something new to paint.

Eldar: the eternal refutation to the "Games Workshop Makes OP Rules To Push New Models" theory.

Feels like barring the WK/Windrider debacle, every OP unit they've had for the last three editions has been either 3E ancient plastic or fossilized shaving cream.

the_scotsman wrote:

Voss wrote:

stratigo wrote:

I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP",

A time of legends, barely recalled and often misremembered by players these days.

Also not particularly relevant to just releasing models to keep the lines up to date and fundamentally viable. Or even just something new to paint.

Eldar: the eternal refutation to the "Games Workshop Makes OP Rules To Push New Models" theory.

Feels like barring the WK/Windrider debacle, every OP unit they've had for the last three editions has been either 3E ancient plastic or fossilized shaving cream.

Sometimes I feel like all eldar problems stem from the fact that it was theoretically possible for a single RT-era shuriken catapult to wipe out multiple marine squads through Following Fire (not even vaguely probable, but possible] Someone thinks they saw it happen once, and every eldar faction has been punished for it ever since.


(yes, yes, and starcannon spam, but those got gakked on long ago as well)

stratigo wrote:


I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP",

Not even close. Over the last decade, it's Chaos far and away without anyone coming remotely close.

7th Ed. Screamer Star reigning supreme (including basically all top spots at the Adepticon before 8th, including one of the first big, more public Nick Brown wins.

8th rolls around, Maelific Lords, Brimstone spam and Big Bird.

Those get nerfed, alpha legion cultist rush.
Those get nerfed, endless Poxwalkers (again nearly winning Adepticon 2018 save for Hive Tyrant spam)
Those get nerfed, Bash Brothers.
Those get nerfed, Plaguebearers & TS (winning Adepticon 2019)
Short Marine interlude, once those get nerfed, Chaos take all the top spots at basically all tournaments pre-corona like Battlefield Birmingham, etc..

There are brief excitements over Castellan and Broviathan and sum such, but throughout 7th and 8th, Chaos has been far and away the most broken and OP faction. Hell, Ahriman was famously the only model EVERY SINGLE team brought to the last ETC. It's the one model so broken that over 40 countries were in agreement on that they couldn't leave without it, even if they went without Ynnari or Riptides or Castellans or whatever else was in vogue last summer or the summer before that.

Lash of submission, rerollable 2++...

I'm having flashbacks.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

stratigo wrote:


I mean eldar are the front runner for "Most years spent OP",

Not even close. Over the last decade, it's Chaos far and away without anyone coming remotely close.

7th Ed. Screamer Star reigning supreme (including basically all top spots at the Adepticon before 8th, including one of the first big, more public Nick Brown wins.

8th rolls around, Maelific Lords, Brimstone spam and Big Bird.

Those get nerfed, alpha legion cultist rush.
Those get nerfed, endless Poxwalkers (again nearly winning Adepticon 2018 save for Hive Tyrant spam)
Those get nerfed, Bash Brothers.
Those get nerfed, Plaguebearers & TS (winning Adepticon 2019)
Short Marine interlude, once those get nerfed, Chaos take all the top spots at basically all tournaments pre-corona like Battlefield Birmingham, etc..

There are brief excitements over Castellan and Broviathan and sum such, but throughout 7th and 8th, Chaos has been far and away the most broken and OP faction. Hell, Ahriman was famously the only model EVERY SINGLE team brought to the last ETC. It's the one model so broken that over 40 countries were in agreement on that they couldn't leave without it, even if they went without Ynnari or Riptides or Castellans or whatever else was in vogue last summer or the summer before that.

Think you missed the last decade as fairly sure it wasn't 7th edition, i think it was 5th edition 10 years ago

 Trickstick wrote:
Lash of submission, rerollable 2++...

I'm having flashbacks.

Lash of submission then smash them with a defiler, good times.