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Seriously, ANOTHER Codex: Space Marines? Unless I'm missing something extremely obvious here the last one still works perfectly with 9th Ed., expecially because it was stated explicitly that last years' supplements are still valid. Happy that SW/DW/BA/DA are consolidated into the base book and get supplement status though. But that could also have been done through a FAQ.

On the bright side of things, that Gladiator tank looks deliciously tasty. Going to get 2, a Reaper and either a Gladiator or a second Reaper (because the thing's going to spit out an unholy amount of dakka).

 kodos wrote:

Because Nu-GW has a PR Department and know that releasing a new Edition with a new Codex SM is a risk if the current game is what everyone like

The impression I get when people say, "GW got a good PR department and nothing else changed" seems to imply GW is just using words to convince people nothing is wrong, because - as you say - nothing changed.

So who is responsible for yearly points, semi-annual FAQs, beta rules, designer notes, and free digital codexes? Because those things don't seem to fall under "Old GW".

And in the last half year of 8th, there were more and more people asking for a new Edition because a new Core is needed to fix the problem of the latest Codex books

which is a thing on its own, people were not asking for GW to fix the broken stuff but for a new Edition to reset the game instead of fixing it
this very idea is nothing people usually come up with as if something is broken, the Community ask to fix exactly that

There was not a mass movement for a new edition. There were the same people asking for tweaks to the system and that's it. People wanted a penalty for soup - we got that. They wanted CP reform - we got that. They wanted useful terrain - we got that.

Almost no one asked for a reset (outside of people who want AA) and we got what people asked for.

Pandabeer wrote:
Seriously, ANOTHER Codex: Space Marines? Unless I'm missing something extremely obvious here the last one still works perfectly with 9th Ed., expecially because it was stated explicitly that last years' supplements are still valid. Happy that SW/DW/BA/DA are consolidated into the base book and get supplement status though. But that could also have been done through a FAQ.

From Warhammer Community:

The new Codex: Space Marines will replace the current Space Marine codex, as well as the other First Founding and Deathwatch codexes – making it an invaluable tome that covers all those elements common across the forces of the Space Marines. A literal Codex Astartes.

For fans of the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Deathwatch?

If you have one of these armies, good news – not only do you get a shiny new core codex with loads of new toys to play with, but you also have a new codex supplement on the way. You’ll be able to tailor your Space Marines force to fully embody the theme and spirit of their Chapter, and of course, include all their unique units and heroes.

That's why there is a new Codex Space Marines on the way...

TS need new models, EC desperately need new models, WE need new models, anything CSM that isnt DG need new models...

But GW has to keep on pumping out more DG... you can just see the decision making process... "kids like zombies! more death guard! they'll sell!"

So who'll be onboard for the app once the army builder is added?

Pandabeer wrote:
Seriously, ANOTHER Codex: Space Marines? Unless I'm missing something extremely obvious here the last one still works perfectly with 9th Ed., expecially because it was stated explicitly that last years' supplements are still valid.

New Codex Space Marines (and Necrons) exist, because they are the follow-up sales to the (presumably also Necrons vs. Marines) starter box. It absolutely doesn't work for sales. That much was obvious when they made a new box with new Marine models.



14-year old Timmy & his best friend walk into a GW store:

Timmy: Cool minis, we wanna start this game.
Store guy: Cool, here's the starter box with Necrons and Marines to start the game. You can split with your friend or get one each.
Timmy & Friend: Yeah!!!

Best Friend: I'll take the Necrons. What else do I need to expand from here?
Store guy: Here's the Necron Codex. Has all the rules for all the models, Crusade, background, the whole shebang. Also rules for all those new models you see over there. Check out that Void Dragon!
Best Friend: Yeah!!

Timmy: I'll take the Marines. What else do I need to expand from here?
Store guy: Well, there's a Marine Codex, but it doesn't have the new units from the box you just bought. Neither does it have the rules for that cool Gladiator tank over there. And also the rules are outdated and you need a bunch of FAQs for Doctrines and and some of the strats and ....
Timmy: feth that! ...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So who'll be onboard for the app once the army builder is added?

I'm going to try it, but the bar will be really low. I didn't expect that they could do one complex enough, but the typos will make it far less useful.

Since it's the "official app," death jesters really do have strength 65 now or whatever the app says at the moment.

by what was said about the App, yes they have as the latest rules with all updates are found within the App, everything else is outdated......

 Daedalus81 wrote:

So who is responsible for yearly points, semi-annual FAQs, beta rules, designer notes, and free digital codexes? Because those things don't seem to fall under "Old GW".

Depends on how long ago "old" GW needs to be
not much of a difference between now and back during 3rd to beginning of 5th, except that GW uses social media now (even that we pay for point/rule adjustments is the same, but back than it was within the White Dwarf)

it was the short time in between were "no contact with the costumer" policy was most important and crashed 2 of their main games

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Almost no one asked for a reset (outside of people who want AA) and we got what people asked for.

and we still got a reset

it is not like the only change is less CP, less Soup and more Terrain
the way CP works now in combination with the new Points, which are not based on any balance changes of 8th but on fluff, together with additional rules that change how units work is a reset of the game (not a hard Reset like 3rd or 8th, but still)

there is a reason why they call it New 40k, because it is a new game

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Because Nu-GW has a PR Department and know that releasing a new Edition with a new Codex SM is a risk if the current game is what everyone like

The impression I get when people say, "GW got a good PR department and nothing else changed" seems to imply GW is just using words to convince people nothing is wrong, because - as you say - nothing changed.

So who is responsible for yearly points, semi-annual FAQs, beta rules, designer notes, and free digital codexes? Because those things don't seem to fall under "Old GW".

And in the last half year of 8th, there were more and more people asking for a new Edition because a new Core is needed to fix the problem of the latest Codex books

which is a thing on its own, people were not asking for GW to fix the broken stuff but for a new Edition to reset the game instead of fixing it
this very idea is nothing people usually come up with as if something is broken, the Community ask to fix exactly that

There was not a mass movement for a new edition. There were the same people asking for tweaks to the system and that's it. People wanted a penalty for soup - we got that. They wanted CP reform - we got that. They wanted useful terrain - we got that.

Almost no one asked for a reset (outside of people who want AA) and we got what people asked for.

I agree, that's 100% revisionist history. People speculated that there WOULD be a new edition and did some wishlisting but there wasn't really any POWERFUL NEED behind it or anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Since it's the "official app," death jesters really do have strength 65 now or whatever the app says at the moment.

That's not how it works. The AoS app is wrong constantly and no one gives it any mind. The warscroll builder on Warcom is a more trusted source for army construction rules.

I agree that the "GW nefariously released a horribly balanced SM 2.0 codex to break the game to make people want 9th" gives GW way too much credit. This isn't some slick operation run by evil geniuses. It's not like they've nailed the 9th edition release; to the contrary, they've bungled it quite spectacularly, first seriously underestimating demand for its flagship release, then putting out an app that is even more embarrassing than that.

I think it's pretty clear from the last couple weeks that GW has gotten big enough that the left hand doesn't really know what the right hand is doing. Far from an evil genius guiding the whole thing, there isn't *anybody* guiding the whole thing with any sort of unified vision. We're getting a new SM codex with the 9th launch because that's what the people developing 9th thought was necessary to sell the new edition; we got an August 2019 SM codex because that's what the people designing 8th thought was necessary to keep selling the old edition. It's far more likely they just weren't working closely with one another than that it was some elaborate plan to fleece the customers.

GW doesn't need to fleece its customers with double codex releases - releases that, mind you, have far lower profit margins than the miniatures that is their real business.

Some revelations gleaned from the new Marine codex ToC.

New type of Intercessors (the Heavy Intercessor Squad).
Scouts are Elites, not Troops now.
Storm Speeder Hellstrike is likely the name of the new speeder.
Primaris Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle and Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor are separate datasheets (despite the HBR Captain being in Gravis Armor).

Yep we're talking about a company that is able to discontinue models in the same week they release new rules for those moedls. They ain't got an evil plan, or any plan.

ERJAK wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Since it's the "official app," death jesters really do have strength 65 now or whatever the app says at the moment.

That's not how it works. The AoS app is wrong constantly and no one gives it any mind. The warscroll builder on Warcom is a more trusted source for army construction rules.

But it is technically "how it works." That's what an official app is. If the official rules app isn't the official rules, what is the official rules?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

New type of Intercessors (the Heavy Intercessor Squad).

Are they still Troops?

Scouts are Elites, not Troops now.

This is really, really weird.

yukishiro1 wrote:
This isn't some slick operation run by evil geniuses

the other possibility is that people paid hundreds or thousands of $ for products of a totally incompetent company who was just lucky at the right moments

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Some revelations gleaned from the new Marine codex ToC.

New type of Intercessors (the Heavy Intercessor Squad).
Scouts are Elites, not Troops now.
Storm Speeder Hellstrike is likely the name of the new speeder.
Primaris Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle and Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor are separate datasheets (despite the HBR Captain being in Gravis Armor).

It is possible that the Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle is wearing a weird pattern ala Shrike for armor...but that is strange either way.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

New type of Intercessors (the Heavy Intercessor Squad).

Are they still Troops?

Scouts are Elites, not Troops now.

This is really, really weird.

No, it makes perfect sense as the next phase of the Primaris Project. This is the edition where they start moving the oldmarine choices to the corners of the core book while also making their points values unattractive. 8th edition was the soft boil - 9th edition is when the heat really gets turned up and people are really compelled to replace whatever remnants of their oldmarine armies they were still using.

Heavy intercessors replace tacs and devastators; scouts have already been replaced by phobos. No reason to leave the scouts where people could actually use them.

There's a really blurry pic of what people suspected were the heavy intercessors floating around where it seems like their greaves (at the very least) were significantly stockier. I wonder if they're going to be some inbetween betwixt intercessors and gravis bois, so like T5 but still only 2W. And heavier armaments.

can't say i'm thrilled with another marine codex, but since I have DA, DW as well as Ravenguard, it will be a decent investment. Glad to see RG supp will remain in use though.

hazefrog wrote:
TS need new models, EC desperately need new models, WE need new models, anything CSM that isnt DG need new models...

But GW has to keep on pumping out more DG... you can just see the decision making process... "kids like zombies! more death guard! they'll sell!"

I'd love to see new models for all those ranges and many more besides, but GW clearly thinks in terms of armies. If you release a random character for a fairly up to date army like ad mech, sisters, or yes death guard, it helps reinvigorate sales in that range. It's the wafer thin mint that pushes people who were on the cusp into finally getting that start collecting box. A random world eaters dude is not an effective release because there's nowhere for the customer to go afterwards. WE and EC need a whole wave of kits each and (particularly the EC) a whole bunch of design work. This is clearly just a quick low hanging fruit kind of wave.

Yes I know this doesn't explain the ork.

 kodos wrote:
by what was said about the App, yes they have as the latest rules with all updates are found within the App, everything else is outdated......

Except as nowhere has been said sub is mandatory to play all official is also in books and errata. Show s65　there

GW Suit: Hey guys let's release some more marine models!

GW Developer: We've already released pretty much every variety of Primaris we can think of. What do you want us to do, just slap a "heavy" in front of something and release yet another Primaris specialist unit with bigger guns - that'll be what, 5 or 6 now? Is that really what the game needs?

GW Suit: "Heavy intercessors!" I love it! You're a genius! Full speed ahead!

yukishiro1 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Since it's the "official app," death jesters really do have strength 65 now or whatever the app says at the moment.

That's not how it works. The AoS app is wrong constantly and no one gives it any mind. The warscroll builder on Warcom is a more trusted source for army construction rules.

But it is technically "how it works." That's what an official app is. If the official rules app isn't the official rules, what is the official rules?

Book+errata

tneva82 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
If the official rules app isn't the official rules, what is the official rules?

Book+errata

Why is that what's official as opposed to the official app?

If they fix Fire and Fade in the app to actually work again for DE, but don't update the errata that currently breaks it, does that mean it still doesn't work?

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:
by what was said about the App, yes they have as the latest rules with all updates are found within the App, everything else is outdated.....

Except as nowhere has been said sub is mandatory to play all official is also in books and errata. Show s65　there

and now, all 3 show something different, which one gets priority?

 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:
by what was said about the App, yes they have as the latest rules with all updates are found within the App, everything else is outdated.....

Except as nowhere has been said sub is mandatory to play all official is also in books and errata. Show s65　there

and now, all 3 show something different, which one gets priority?

GW have backed themselves into a real corner here. Either it isn't the official rules so you are paying a monthly sub for something that can't actually be used as the official rules, or it is the official rules and therefore people without a subscription can't play the game with the official rules.

If it's the former, you can't use the app instead of the books; if it's the latter, the books don't actually matter.

The only real answer is that both are the official rules and that both have equal priority, and if they disagree, I guess you roll a dice and on a 4+ the DJ has a S65 weapon and on a 1-3 he has a S6 weapon?

Weren't we supposed to get revised power levels on the day of the launch? I think I recall it being mentioned during one of the preview streams.

 Ghaz wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
Seriously, ANOTHER Codex: Space Marines? Unless I'm missing something extremely obvious here the last one still works perfectly with 9th Ed., expecially because it was stated explicitly that last years' supplements are still valid. Happy that SW/DW/BA/DA are consolidated into the base book and get supplement status though. But that could also have been done through a FAQ.

From Warhammer Community:

The new Codex: Space Marines will replace the current Space Marine codex, as well as the other First Founding and Deathwatch codexes – making it an invaluable tome that covers all those elements common across the forces of the Space Marines. A literal Codex Astartes.

For fans of the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Deathwatch?

If you have one of these armies, good news – not only do you get a shiny new core codex with loads of new toys to play with, but you also have a new codex supplement on the way. You’ll be able to tailor your Space Marines force to fully embody the theme and spirit of their Chapter, and of course, include all their unique units and heroes.

That's why there is a new Codex Space Marines on the way...

As I said, that could also have been done through a FAQ. "Codex: BA/DA/SW/DW is now void, replaced by 8th ed. Codex: SM. Psychic Awakening and chapter tactics still valid. Supplements soonTM."

 BrookM wrote:
Weren't we supposed to get revised power levels on the day of the launch? I think I recall it being mentioned during one of the preview streams.

Points were day of launch, Power was a free download coming later.