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I'm pretty sure the resounding answer to this question is 'no', as most offensive abilities, from basic shooting to more advanced actions are worded fairly early on that an enemy unit must be targeted. I was wondering if there are any methods of attacking your own units, bar area attacks (so ruling out, in my experience as a Guard player, things like Deathstrikes and the psychic ability Gaze of the Emperor.)

I know it's a strange question, but let me give a specific example of where I might consider using it:

My hypothetical army has a Hellhound, or better yet a Malcador Infernus (ie something that has a fairly substantial chance of exploding when destroyed.)

It is my turn. The vehicle is on its last legs, and I am fairly certain that the vehicle will not survive my opponent's next turn. (Assuming there's nothing I can do related to this question in the psychic phase) I make my final shot with the tank, but there are still enemy models remaining within explosion distance, and I would like to capitalise on this. Am I able in some way to destroy my explodium-laced vehicle?

The best thing I can think of is to declare a charge/multi-charge against a nearby unit and hope it gets taken out by overwatch, (is overwatch even obligatory?) but it would be a nice to know if there are other options that do not rely on my opponent.

Steiner wrote:
I'm pretty sure the resounding answer to this question is 'no', as most offensive abilities, from basic shooting to more advanced actions are worded fairly early on that an enemy unit must be targeted. I was wondering if there are any methods of attacking your own units, bar area attacks (so ruling out, in my experience as a Guard player, things like Deathstrikes and the psychic ability Gaze of the Emperor.)

I know it's a strange question, but let me give a specific example of where I might consider using it;

My hypothetical army has a Hellhound, or better yet a Malcador Infernus (ie something that has a fairly substantial chance of exploding when destroyed.)

It is my turn. The vehicle is on its last legs, and I am fairly certain that the vehicle will not survive my opponent's next turn. (Assuming there's nothing I can do related to this question in the psychic phase) I make my final shot with the tank, but there are still enemy models remaining within explosion distance, and I would like to capitalise on this. Am I able in some way to destroy my explodium-laced vehicle?

The best thing I can think of is to declare a charge/multi-charge against a nearby unit and hope it gets taken out by overwatch, (is overwatch even obligatory?) but it would be a nice to know if there are other options that do not rely on my opponent.

For Imperial Guard, I am almost certain there is no way to do so other than the aforementioned overwatch shenanigans (although overwatch does say "can", which as per FAQ means it's optional, but GW are inconsistent on that and contract themselves in the very next breath in that same FAQ as the rules also say models "can" fight in the fight phase).

Off the top of my head the only ways to intentionally destroy your own unit are to overcharge the Plasmagun half of a Combi-Plasma on a Chaos Rhino (but doing so doesn't let the Rhino explode), overcharge plasma in general and get unlucky, overheat with certain guns like the Cyclic Ion Blaster, or to use the Ork Stratagem "Flying 'Eadbutt" from Psychic Awakening: Saga of the Beast.

You cannot, barring a Stratagem or specific unit ability, self-destruct a vehicle.

I believe BCB has covered the only things that can do that right now.

Edit: To put another way, there is no general rule allowing for it. Only specific rules that can make it happen.

Outside of fluffing it as cool in a Narrative game, the rules don’t allow such things (outside of weird edge cases).

The only Astra Militarum vehicle that can deliberately self-destruct that I am aware of is the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle.

In general your only option is to force the opponent to kill it, usually by tying up the opponent's units in combat. The opponent has no obligation to fire overwatch but they have to make all of their close combat attacks (note that all units can do so with their 'close combat weapon' profile if they really don't want to kill something). Then again, I think it would be an unusual situation where the threat of mortal wounds would be worse than having a vehicle deep within your lines, messing up your upcoming movement and shooting phases for multiple units.

The cyclops can not only self destruct but also damage and potentially destroy friendly units. Friendly fire is explicitly on when detonating its charge which has a niche use to blow up Hellhounds or kill a tripointed, trapped model of a large unit, by blowing up anywhere near that unit. The same is the case for the Stratagem "Fire on my position" (all units within 3''), but that is very very situational.

Other things with friendly fire on were already mentioned: Gaze of the emperor and Deathstrikes.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I guessed as much that the options are both situational and few, but thank you for the clarification.

I had the same idea. Suicide Infernus, but alas no

When you had the scatter dice and ordnance blast markers you could technically destroy your own units deliberately - Special Weapons Squad with 3 Demolition Charges throwing them at 2" range, with a good chance of them scattering backwards on your own squad... S8 AP3 5" blast instant death...

There's no doubt the rules on overwatch are worded weirdly, but I do think it does have to be optional - because unlike close combat, there is no "default" ranged weapon. In other words, in combat, you have to attack - but you don't have to attack with your weapon. You are explicitly allowed to fight with your base profile instead.

It would be really weird in that context to say that you are required to use a ranged weapon because you have it, when you are never in any other circumstance required to use a weapon simply because you are equipped with it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
There's no doubt the rules on overwatch are worded weirdly, but I do think it does have to be optional - because unlike close combat, there is no "default" ranged weapon. In other words, in combat, you have to attack - but you don't have to attack with your weapon. You are explicitly allowed to fight with your base profile instead.

It would be really weird in that context to say that you are required to use a ranged weapon because you have it, when you are never in any other circumstance required to use a weapon simply because you are equipped with it.

Except the base profile is a weapon.

If a datasheet does not list any melee weapons, the model is assumed to fight with a close combat weapon, which has the following profile: Weapon: Close combat weapon Range: Melee Type: Melee S: User AP: - Damage: 1 (Page 9 of the battle primer).

Right. And there is no similar base ranged weapon.

A requirement to overwatch would result in all sorts of weird things. Like suppose you have two weapons, one of which is in range and one of which is not. Do you have to use the weapon you have range for, or can you effectively not overwatch by declaring you're shooting with the weapon that doesn't have range? What if you have some weapons that ignore LOS and some that don't - again, can you avoid overwatching a unit charging from out of LOS by choosing to use your weapons that require LOS?

Without an actual FAQ stating that overwatch is required (and how to resolve situations like the above), I don't think it's reasonable to interpret the "can" in the overwatch rules as a requirement that you must shoot overwatch.

That wouldn’t be interpreting. It would just be reading wrong. “Can” denotes an option not an imperative.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
That wouldn’t be interpreting. It would just be reading wrong. “Can” denotes an option not an imperative.

Except for the fight phase. Which is a weird ruling, you may choose to shoot in the shooting phase and charge phase, or not. But you must fight in the fight phase, with all attacks available.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
That wouldn’t be interpreting. It would just be reading wrong. “Can” denotes an option not an imperative.

Except for the fight phase. Which is a weird ruling, you may choose to shoot in the shooting phase and charge phase, or not. But you must fight in the fight phase, with all attacks available.

Nope, because the Fight Phase specifies all units that can fight must - Rulebook FAQ, Page 4.

So as I said, there is no obligation to fire Overwatch.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
That wouldn’t be interpreting. It would just be reading wrong. “Can” denotes an option not an imperative.

Except for the fight phase. Which is a weird ruling, you may choose to shoot in the shooting phase and charge phase, or not. But you must fight in the fight phase, with all attacks available.

Nope, because the Fight Phase specifies all units that can fight must - Rulebook FAQ, Page 4.

So as I said, there is no obligation to fire Overwatch.

Thats what i said, you can fire your ranged weapons in the shooting and charge phase, but you must fight in the fight phase.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Right. And there is no similar base ranged weapon.

A requirement to overwatch would result in all sorts of weird things. Like suppose you have two weapons, one of which is in range and one of which is not. Do you have to use the weapon you have range for, or can you effectively not overwatch by declaring you're shooting with the weapon that doesn't have range? What if you have some weapons that ignore LOS and some that don't - again, can you avoid overwatching a unit charging from out of LOS by choosing to use your weapons that require LOS?

Without an actual FAQ stating that overwatch is required (and how to resolve situations like the above), I don't think it's reasonable to interpret the "can" in the overwatch rules as a requirement that you must shoot overwatch.

It's not that weird. Even the rules for shooting require a unit that chooses to shoot to shoot with all of their weapons, barring those that can only attack a limited times per game. This applies to overwatch also. You get to choose to overwatch or not, but if you overwatch you must fire every weapon you can at the target.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
That wouldn’t be interpreting. It would just be reading wrong. “Can” denotes an option not an imperative.

Except for the fight phase. Which is a weird ruling, you may choose to shoot in the shooting phase and charge phase, or not. But you must fight in the fight phase, with all attacks available.

Nope, because the Fight Phase specifies all units that can fight must - Rulebook FAQ, Page 4.

So as I said, there is no obligation to fire Overwatch.

Well right, but the actual text of that rule is that any unit that meets the requirements "can" fight, and yet it's interpreted to be a requirement. Normally "can" means an option, but in the way GW uses it in the fight phase, it's a requirement. This opens the door to whether "can" is a requirement in other phases as well.

It's what comes of sloppy rule-writing.

It’s not interpreted. The FAQ spells it out. Without an FAQ “can” is a word giving you an option, but FAQs and Errata are rules and carry the weight of rules, and this FAQ spells out they actually must fight if able. What a paragraph read before an FAQ is immaterial. Please guys, it’s not worth well ackshullying, it’s clear after the FAQ. I made a statement that was true and unambiguous and have had two attempted rebuttals. Let’s try and keep threads concise? You can post, nothing says you must.

This is a context issue.

The can in the Fight phase references which units are able to fight. Unit with X, Y, or Z can be selected to fight.

However, the rules for the Fight phase also dictate that all units that can be selected to fight must fight before you can move forward with the rest of the game.

Side note but as the question was about guard

The forgeworld unit cyclops explicitly hits friendly aswell as enemy units in range

The fire on my position stratagem doesnt say enemy units so could technically work too if you had vox casters. Suicide infantry squad and hope it dies.

Cyclops and Fire on my position definitely sound plausible, and certainly with something the size on an Infernus it wouldn't be too hard to tuck either one in behind them. I think the only problem is you are adding another layer of uncertainty with the infantry squad in that you need the vox-carrying model to die at exactly the right moment.

Cyclops though, could just swing out at the right moment and detonate. Can't complain about double the explosions.

Steiner wrote:
Cyclops and Fire on my position definitely sound plausible, and certainly with something the size on an Infernus it wouldn't be too hard to tuck either one in behind them. I think the only problem is you are adding another layer of uncertainty with the infantry squad in that you need the vox-carrying model to die at exactly the right moment.

No, you don't need the Vox guy to die (specifically), you need the whole squad to die. The stratagem triggers when the last member of the squad is removed. If your opponent knows what you're trying to do they could just not shoot them. So certainly not reliable - but still possible.

Sorry, I should have been clearer about that; I do understand how it works, I was just referring to the issue of trying to keep the squad alive with the vox-carrying model in it until the moment that you need it, then hoping that enough damage gets dealt to it at the right moment to satisfy the conditions of using the stratagem.

There are two methods that I can think of you have not mentioned.

Inquisitors have a 4 cp strategem that deals d3 MW to 1/2 of the non character and 1/3 the characater units in a 2d6 circle. Friend or foe., boom. Start of shooting phase.

Valhallans have an order that allows them to fire into melee, but 1's cause you to strike your own team. Now, if htey happen to be running with heavy bolters, you could see them all firing at -1 to begin with, then any 1 or 2 would cause a heavy bolter to hit a lonely imperial gaurdsman who was struggling in melee with mortarion himself. It also works with plasma rifles, melta guns, laser cannons, anything that the infantry can carry, and presumably, with the strategem for throwing 10 frak grenades at once shot.

Note that melta guns, shotguns, and grenade launchers are assault weapons, so you can potentially bring that elite veteran little unit in from a long ways away, order it to fire into the melee, and then watch your men wreck havoc on you AND the enemy.

If you have that vox caster in the (badly damaged) unit that is stuck in melee, your enemy will watch you roll for each melta and grenade in horror as he realizes that his custodes are maybe going to die here ... after a crippling couple mortal wounds dropped some gaurdsmen already (inquisition strategem is in the fight phase) and then he hears you say "ok, so that's 10d6 grenades from this unit, and the other is firing as well..."
It doesn't necessarily take even a detachment, as the valhallan to valhallan order is ok even if you are mixed in with some other unit, and basically you are asking them to just shoot normal weapons normally .. but into melee.
If you do a detachment (like 2 veterans squads with 6 grenade launchers and 14 shotguns, a company commander, and a 10 man valhallan gaurd unit with 10 lasguns and 10 hint hint frag grenades) it seems likely you can reliably wipe any 10 man squad remnant the enemey tried to wrap, freeing up your battlecannons and such to pour holy hell onto the enemy aggressors and centurions.