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Maybe they could move corsairs out of FW and then legend all the marine FW garbage.

Its official, all Detachments will cost CP. If you have your WL in a Core detachment (Patrol, Battalion, Brigade) then you are refunded those CP spent to take that detachment.

No word on how much CP it takes or how many detachments you can take.

Just posted
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/04/taking-command-of-your-pointsgw-homepage-post-1/

But there’s more! Not only do you start the battle with more Command points, but in each of your Command phases – the new opening phase of your turn – you will receive one additional Command point.

And Cut Them Down looks like it works best for Hordes.

No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

You still will. You don't care if that unit dies. You just want your shooting turned back on.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

I really hope that somethings get an exception to this strategum or their is going to be some very pointless rules untill everyone gets their new codex.

All fall back and shoot traits and abilities just took one heck of a kick in the teeth.

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

I really hope that somethings get an exception to this strategum or their is going to be some very pointless rules untill everyone gets their new codex.

All fall back and shoot traits and abilities just took one heck of a kick in the teeth.

Aren't you already being tripointed? Fall back and shoot is garbage compared to fly anyway.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

1. Fall back from Boyz.
2. Hope your opponent wastes CP inflicting MW on your sacrificial screen.
3. Blast Boyz off the table.

I'm really hoping there are mechanical changes to Fall Back that will make it harder to escape combat, or it's not going to fix the really critical problem with melee.

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

I really hope that somethings get an exception to this strategum or their is going to be some very pointless rules untill everyone gets their new codex.

All fall back and shoot traits and abilities just took one heck of a kick in the teeth.

It costs a resource and it only procs on a 6 and within engagement range. Its not going to be that devastating.
On average you will one model per 5 enemy models in engagement range. How many models do you think you're opponent can get in range?

I mean, its certainly useful and the free fall backs certainly needed a counter, but I don't think its going to kill fall back as a rule.

 catbarf wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

1. Fall back from Boyz.
2. Hope your opponent wastes CP inflicting MW on your sacrificial screen.
3. Blast Boyz off the table.

I'm really hoping there are mechanical changes to Fall Back that will make it harder to escape combat, or it's not going to fix the really critical problem with melee.

They mentioned "That will certainly hurt if activated on a unit of 30 Ork Boyz!" so it makes me wonder if there is going to be a way for all 30 to be in engagement range, which would make it easier to average 5 MW on a unit trying to fall back.

Martel732 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

I really hope that somethings get an exception to this strategum or their is going to be some very pointless rules untill everyone gets their new codex.

All fall back and shoot traits and abilities just took one heck of a kick in the teeth.

Aren't you already being tripointed? Fall back and shoot is garbage compared to fly anyway.

You can't tripoint a Knight, I dont mind the number of attacks but it's GW automatic answer being MW's that's getting old.
It's become their default answer regardless of the question.

Additionally they imply that tripointing is an 8th edition thing so probably not even an issue in 9th.

Well I certainly hope so. It's awful.

The new detachment they showed is nice, having 6 elite slots makes me very happy as I have a lot of good options for elites.

I am just very happy that they are killing the CP batteries that ruined some factions stratagem costs.

so a g-man ultra marine brigade now makes you 15 cp +1 cp each turn ? lol...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned "That will certainly hurt if activated on a unit of 30 Ork Boyz!" so it makes me wonder if there is going to be a way for all 30 to be in engagement range, which would make it easier to average 5 MW on a unit trying to fall back.

Sounds to me like marketing fluff, but even if that is true, I think my point stands- if you spend a CP to kill 20pts of Guardsmen (I know costs are going up, bear with me), I consider that a win. They've already made back their points just by tying up a 210+pt unit so I can then shoot it.

You could make it 'spend a CP to automatically wipe out a unit trying to fall back', and I would contend that melee would still be in a rough spot- it'd just make screens even more important than they are currently. Melee just doesn't have an answer for sacrificial screens backed up by shooting.

I'm not proclaiming doom and gloom until we see the rest of the rules, just saying I hope there's more to Fall Back now than getting in extra damage on retreating units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheAvengingKnee wrote:
The new detachment they showed is nice, having 6 elite slots makes me very happy as I have a lot of good options for elites.

It's exactly the same as the current Battalion, just FYI.

TheAvengingKnee wrote:
The new detachment they showed is nice, having 6 elite slots makes me very happy as I have a lot of good options for elites.

I am just very happy that they are killing the CP batteries that ruined some factions stratagem costs.

Except they really have not changed anything Guard can still bring a bunch of free comand points heck even a brigade of them so far are free if your taking a battalion of your other faction as their warlord trait and relic give you 6 CP over the game for a net +3CP unless the additional codex costs more CP than that.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned "That will certainly hurt if activated on a unit of 30 Ork Boyz!" so it makes me wonder if there is going to be a way for all 30 to be in engagement range, which would make it easier to average 5 MW on a unit trying to fall back.

It makes me wonder if they play the same game as everyone else. What unit of Ork boys is going to have 30 models after the first round of combat?

Ice_can wrote:
Except they really have not changed anything Guard can still bring a bunch of free comand points heck even a brigade of them so far are free if your taking a battalion of your other faction as their warlord trait and relic give you 6 CP over the game for a net +3CP unless the additional codex costs more CP than that.

Horde armies like Guard are going to have an easier time meeting Brigade requirements, but a harder time fitting everything in a Battalion, so I think there's a good tradeoff.

Losing 3CP at the start to gain an average of 4-6CP over the course of the game seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Front-loaded CP is always more valuable than late-game CP.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They mentioned "That will certainly hurt if activated on a unit of 30 Ork Boyz!" so it makes me wonder if there is going to be a way for all 30 to be in engagement range, which would make it easier to average 5 MW on a unit trying to fall back.

It makes me wonder if they play the same game as everyone else. What unit of Ork boys is going to have 30 models after the first round of combat?

Well they're playing 9th, so clearly it's not the same game.

Joking aside, I was expecting a 4 or 5+ for it when Stu Black was describing it. Makes me hope that there is more going for melee than just that.

 catbarf wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Except they really have not changed anything Guard can still bring a bunch of free comand points heck even a brigade of them so far are free if your taking a battalion of your other faction as their warlord trait and relic give you 6 CP over the game for a net +3CP unless the additional codex costs more CP than that.

Horde armies like Guard are going to have an easier time meeting Brigade requirements, but a harder time fitting everything in a Battalion, so I think there's a good tradeoff.

Losing 3CP at the start to gain an average of 4-6CP over the course of the game seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Front-loaded CP is always more valuable than late-game CP.

That was the least favourable situation to take them in sadly

If you take an vanguard even with your warlord in it you have to pay the detachment CP, so adding the Guard detachment is free if you can make the guard HQ your warlord and your now +6CP over the game and down 0 maybe 1 CP at the start if you buy your HQ a warlord trait again.

 catbarf wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No more falling back from Boyz, indeed.

1. Fall back from Boyz.
2. Hope your opponent wastes CP inflicting MW on your sacrificial screen.
3. Blast Boyz off the table.

I'm really hoping there are mechanical changes to Fall Back that will make it harder to escape combat, or it's not going to fix the really critical problem with melee.

Exactly this, assault oriented armies should get a massive buff, not nerfings. Deep striking abilities should be addressed and limited, but units like ork boyz, which are already mediocre, need some love. As an ork player I don't see this stratagem very useful for our army which is already extremely CPs hungry. I don't think I'd never use it with the current knowledge of the game.

 Argive wrote:
so a g-man ultra marine brigade now makes you 15 cp +1 cp each turn ? lol...

Isn't G-man a LoW? So he can't be your warlord and in your brigade AND he doesn't get the benefit of eliminating CP costs, so best case scenario with him as your warlord with Superheavy Aux and Brigade costing 1 each it's 13+1, which forces you to run a brigade, which really limits your options in a UM setup. SuperheavyAux could also cost 3+ CP as well.

Now CALGAR in a brigade might get you a good chunk of CP but Girlyman eats through his own bonus just being there.

 Blackie wrote:
Exactly this, assault oriented armies should get a massive buff, not nerfings. Deep striking abilities should be addressed and limited, but units like ork boyz, which are already mediocre, need some love. As an ork player I don't see this stratagem very useful for our army which is already extremely CPs hungry. I don't think I'd never use it with the current knowledge of the game.

Well in terms of what we know so far, there's this, plus the changes to cover. There could be other stuff too, but it's not a bad start. Honestly, I think some people just aren't ever happy unless their units/armies look like getting turned into a invincible, auto-kill-everything button.

 Nazrak wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Exactly this, assault oriented armies should get a massive buff, not nerfings. Deep striking abilities should be addressed and limited, but units like ork boyz, which are already mediocre, need some love. As an ork player I don't see this stratagem very useful for our army which is already extremely CPs hungry. I don't think I'd never use it with the current knowledge of the game.

Well in terms of what we know so far, there's this, plus the changes to cover. There could be other stuff too, but it's not a bad start. Honestly, I think some people just aren't ever happy unless their units/armies look like getting turned into a invincible, auto-kill-everything button.

I want functional melee without the gakshow of tripointing.

Also to notice that the stratagem does not target your unit, but the enemy unit. So if that unit was in range of models from more than one of your units, they all get a chance at hitting.

By the way, an hormagaunt on a MEQ target is actually more dangerous like this than with his standard attacks.

Ice_can wrote:

TheAvengingKnee wrote:
The new detachment they showed is nice, having 6 elite slots makes me very happy as I have a lot of good options for elites.

I am just very happy that they are killing the CP batteries that ruined some factions stratagem costs.

Except they really have not changed anything Guard can still bring a bunch of free comand points heck even a brigade of them so far are free if your taking a battalion of your other faction as their warlord trait and relic give you 6 CP over the game for a net +3CP unless the additional codex costs more CP than that.

So you spend your warlord trait, any warlord abilities your own warlord has, a relic, and dramatically limit the flexibility of your list for not at all 3 CP? First of all, there's no guarantee that you'll actually get 6CP refunded, especially with CP battery armies actually having LESS total CP than they did before. If your opponent blows all their CP turn one and two and doesn't use a stratagem again until 6, you'll be lucky to your investment back in a 6 turn game. Also, if you use pregame CP like relics or infiltrates, you reduce your chance of refunding CP because you can't use either the relic of the WT on those abilities.

That's ignoring the fact that CP received on turn 5 and turn 6 are FAR less valuable than CP received on turn one. Let's say you do magically actually get the 6CP return the relic+WT can theoretically get you, you're actually netting maybe a 1.5CP worth of first turn CP. It's a pretty obnoxious trade-off in exchange for a very mediocre bonus.


The loyal 32 is well and truly dead as a result of this. The only reason you'd take allies like that is if you want the UNITS that come along with them. At best the CP generation is just paying yourself back for taking allies.

Assuming you can still only gain 1 CP per

Martel732 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Exactly this, assault oriented armies should get a massive buff, not nerfings. Deep striking abilities should be addressed and limited, but units like ork boyz, which are already mediocre, need some love. As an ork player I don't see this stratagem very useful for our army which is already extremely CPs hungry. I don't think I'd never use it with the current knowledge of the game.

Well in terms of what we know so far, there's this, plus the changes to cover. There could be other stuff too, but it's not a bad start. Honestly, I think some people just aren't ever happy unless their units/armies look like getting turned into a invincible, auto-kill-everything button.

I want functional melee without the gakshow of tripointing.

Yeah well it think it's fair to say, given that you've done literally nothing but piss and moan ever since I've been coming to this forum – which is at least six years – there's a pretty good chance you're not going to be happy with anything you get in the latest edition. Maybe it's time to find a new hobby rather than just being an incessant, unrelenting bummer for people on the internet.

I hope they show the prices for the other detachments soon. If the other detachment styles cost more than the battalion, we'll be in the same situation we were in during 8th.