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 Overread wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Why?

What makes the sculptor better than anyone else in GW's employ marketing their new game

Why do you think I said that? .

I don't know - that's kinda why I asked

Then why not just ask directly? I think the conversation would be a lot more relaxed if we both stopped assuming things about each other.

A mini designer talking lovingly about his or her sculpt sounds far more genuine than a "community manager" or whatever title hyperbolically describing it.

While one could argue both are biased, there is something called "artisan's pride" that is far more believable than pure marketing.

I said it a lot of times already, I did not like the cinematic but that doesn't bug me; each to their own. What I didn't like is going to check on the new edition and then being met with several ads exclusively talking about the trailer in some, IMHO, very over hyped terms. I found that in poor taste and "cringe worthy".

Some of you pointed out other companies do similar things, which to me means little. It is not like I am not aware of it, but that's not what my complaint was.

Finally, if you DO like GW approach to marketing, more power to you. There is a further discussion to be had on whether all marketing is bad for consumers, only part of it, degrees of it, the amount of manipulation involved, and so on. Perhaps it would be better if we hadn't stepped into it. My only defense is that a lot of you guys started schooling me on why GW does these things, and hence we got into it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 harlokin wrote:

Grey40k wrote:


Now, please, make a bit of an effort on your end to understand the other side.

Why?

In your original post you ask if anyone agrees with you, and evidently some do, while a number don't. You are the one dragging this out, and refusing to believe that anyone else can have a different opinion on this advert without being deluded.

I am not refusing to believe anything, I have said countless times that liking the cinematic or not is a matter of taste.

We got pass the initial post into some discussion about good and bad marketing.

Gotta keep up!

I miss the old days where White Dwarf would publish critical reviews of GW products.

The 1994 article "2nd Edition is steaming pile of offal and you should avoid at all costs" was a classic I still reread from time to time.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I miss the old days where White Dwarf would publish critical reviews of GW products.

The 1994 article "2nd Edition is steaming pile of offal and you should avoid at all costs" was a classic I still reread from time to time.

Yes! That's what I miss so much about WD. They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

Anyone claiming WD has always been only pure unadultered marketing since the beginning clearly hasn't seen the early years.

Grey40k wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I miss the old days where White Dwarf would publish critical reviews of GW products.

The 1994 article "2nd Edition is steaming pile of offal and you should avoid at all costs" was a classic I still reread from time to time.

Yes! That's what I miss so much about WD.

I think you missed the joke there.*

They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

When was the last time you picked up a White Dwarf again? I have the July 2019 one in hand right now, and there's a really awesome little Kill Team-sized project done by Maxime Pastourel called the Order of the Twisted Tree. Heavily converted, gloriously painted, and has a full page dedicated to it. The article even goes over what kits were used to make the converted models in it!

Not to mention how that WD is FULL of datasheets for various games, as well as alternative rules for LOTR, Titanicus, Underworlds, and BSF.
But sure, it's only got marketing material in there.


*unless there really IS an article saying 2nd edition is a steaming pile of offal, but I can't seem to find any reference of it!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Grey40k wrote:
They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

When was the last time you picked up a White Dwarf again? I have the July 2019 one in hand right now, and there's a really awesome little Kill Team-sized project done by Maxime Pastourel called the Order of the Twisted Tree. Heavily converted, gloriously painted, and has a full page dedicated to it. The article even goes over what kits were used to make the converted models in it!

So what non-GW kits and/or parts does it tell you about using and how they went about building it?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Grey40k wrote:
They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

When was the last time you picked up a White Dwarf again? I have the July 2019 one in hand right now, and there's a really awesome little Kill Team-sized project done by Maxime Pastourel called the Order of the Twisted Tree. Heavily converted, gloriously painted, and has a full page dedicated to it. The article even goes over what kits were used to make the converted models in it!

So what non-GW kits and/or parts does it tell you about using and how they went about building it?

I don't think you can really blame a company for advertising their own products and not their competitors.

GW's done plenty of dumb stuff, and plenty of stuff worthy of ragging on them. But that... That's not a big deal.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Grey40k wrote:
They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

When was the last time you picked up a White Dwarf again? I have the July 2019 one in hand right now, and there's a really awesome little Kill Team-sized project done by Maxime Pastourel called the Order of the Twisted Tree. Heavily converted, gloriously painted, and has a full page dedicated to it. The article even goes over what kits were used to make the converted models in it!

So what non-GW kits and/or parts does it tell you about using and how they went about building it?

Wasn't aware that awesome conversions needed non-GW parts in them.

Grey asked for "extreme conversions". These were, in my opinion, sufficiently extreme. Plus, as said by JNA, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect GW to not have non-GW models in their own publications. They don't exactly hide or censor generic things like using modelling cork or jeweler's chain anyways.

Grey40k wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I miss the old days where White Dwarf would publish critical reviews of GW products.

The 1994 article "2nd Edition is steaming pile of offal and you should avoid at all costs" was a classic I still reread from time to time.

Yes! That's what I miss so much about WD. They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

Anyone claiming WD has always been only pure unadultered marketing since the beginning clearly hasn't seen the early years.

Very much have done, and the main difference now is they sell terrain so it’s not in their interests to suggest you make your own from cardboard. I also stopped buying WD because there’s not enough hobby material for me - I subscribed for a year around launch of 7th onward but there wasn’t enough to keep me hooked and I needed to cut costs. I think I’ve been a subscriber in about three different eras. Given you told others not to assume your views it seems odd to be making blanket statements like yours, no? Don’t play the absolutism game and put words in other’s mouths, it just undermines your stance.

Still, everything in those old WDs was in pursuit of getting you to buy WD and buy more GW models/play GW games. It has always been their “monthly hobby supplement and miniatures catalogue” as I believe the old masthead ran. Yes, the content has changed but WD was always marketing you paid for. Whether a particular era appeals to you due to its particular approach doesn’t change that. Heck, I miss the catalogue pages the most... used to pore over those planning armies and conversions!

And yes, wayyyy back when they featured conversions using random other stuff but we’re talking way back when. Rogue Trader days with random tank kits 40K’d up. That kind of jazz. But unless I’m going mad they haven’t promoted stuff they don’t sell for decades. And things have moved on and they have their own toys to sell. Honestly, I think your expectations are set in the very distant past and are unrealistic for GW-now. Like, as I said I don’t get enough from WD to subscribe anymore, as during that year subbing I noticed the quality slip a lot and my finances changed. If I could afford it I’d still be subscribing as it still interesting but ultimately there’s enough free hobby and GW content online that I don’t need it. So as you see, I’m not coming from an uncritical shilling place as you assume. I get a range of stuff and don’t need to pay and still get a GW feed so their marketing for me is fine as it is.

This idea White Dwarf used to be a halcyon bastion of boundless creativity in contrast to profit simply isn’t true. They still feature incredible conversions to this day, and stunning paintwork (some of which blatantly wasn’t done with their products). And White Dwarf is the long-form advert it has always been.

I stumbled into the new 40K trailer on Youtube - I think it works at what it is trying to do: get people who don't play interested in the 40K universe. If it brings some new blood into the hobby then great! Right?

And here we are, talking about their trailer so I guess its working.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I miss the old days where White Dwarf would publish critical reviews of GW products.

The 1994 article "2nd Edition is steaming pile of offal and you should avoid at all costs" was a classic I still reread from time to time.

Yes! That's what I miss so much about WD. They also used to have very nice sections on extreme conversions; not the current sanitized only GWS pieces whatevers, but some really creative pieces.

Anyone claiming WD has always been only pure unadultered marketing since the beginning clearly hasn't seen the early years.

Very much have done, and the main difference now is they sell terrain so it’s not in their interests to suggest you make your own from cardboard. I also stopped buying WD because there’s not enough hobby material for me - I subscribed for a year around launch of 7th onward but there wasn’t enough to keep me hooked and I needed to cut costs. I think I’ve been a subscriber in about three different eras. Given you told others not to assume your views it seems odd to be making blanket statements like yours, no? Don’t play the absolutism game and put words in other’s mouths, it just undermines your stance.

Still, everything in those old WDs was in pursuit of getting you to buy WD and buy more GW models/play GW games. It has always been their “monthly hobby supplement and miniatures catalogue” as I believe the old masthead ran. Yes, the content has changed but WD was always marketing you paid for. Whether a particular era appeals to you due to its particular approach doesn’t change that. Heck, I miss the catalogue pages the most... used to pore over those planning armies and conversions!

And yes, wayyyy back when they featured conversions using random other stuff but we’re talking way back when. Rogue Trader days with random tank kits 40K’d up. That kind of jazz. But unless I’m going mad they haven’t promoted stuff they don’t sell for decades. And things have moved on and they have their own toys to sell. Honestly, I think your expectations are set in the very distant past and are unrealistic for GW-now. Like, as I said I don’t get enough from WD to subscribe anymore, as during that year subbing I noticed the quality slip a lot and my finances changed. If I could afford it I’d still be subscribing as it still interesting but ultimately there’s enough free hobby and GW content online that I don’t need it. So as you see, I’m not coming from an uncritical shilling place as you assume. I get a range of stuff and don’t need to pay and still get a GW feed so their marketing for me is fine as it is.

This idea White Dwarf used to be a halcyon bastion of boundless creativity in contrast to profit simply isn’t true. They still feature incredible conversions to this day, and stunning paintwork (some of which blatantly wasn’t done with their products). And White Dwarf is the long-form advert it has always been.

white dwarf is better then it was in 6th and 7th though when it was little more then a phamplet of upcoming releases they had the gall to charge us for.

Yeah most definitely agreed. Don’t even get me started on the Weekly period...

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yeah most definitely agreed. Don’t even get me started on the Weekly period...

Note that I said it was about degrees; I found that over the years it moved more towards aggressive marketing and hence dropped it.

Wasn’t gunning at calling you out specifically, was just excited that someone remembered the early days of WD. Heck, it wasn’t even exclusive GW. Stuff about wd over time is very much based on memories and feelings though, we are talking about stuff from decades ago.

Anyway, to say something positive, I do think that some sculpts are better than the early blocky ones. Some classic ones have aged well, others are very much surpassed.

I think modern white dwarf is about what it should be TBH. a little more stuff like how to customize using green stuff etc would be nice but TBH I'd rather they use youtube for that

IIRC White Dwarf has been classed as a catalogue by US mail for decades rather than a magazine since it's an in-house promotional thing rather than an editorially independent news source.

So yeah, adjust standards accordingly.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Very much have done, and the main difference now is they sell terrain so it’s not in their interests to suggest you make your own from cardboard.

But also because people didn't. I was/am lucky that my main games club was people who'd started wargaming (note: NOT Warhammering) before I was born - and I'm no spring chicken. But they were just used to building anything they needed, so we had a ton of hills, rivers, trees, all the housing you could need from Ancients through to WW2 and, yes, some sci-fi.

Then other clubs, newer clubs, didn't have that background. And for various good reasons (time pressures, storage space... also talent and imagination, bluntly) they were lucky if a few thick books or boxes were thrown down as hills and buildings. Not even a couple of model railway trees glued to a CD to represent a section of woodland.

Nowadays, at similar clubs I've seen more visually appealing terrain BECAUSE GW and other companies are making compatible scale kits. It might well be as un- or half-painted as most of the armies, but it's THERE.