Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, My LGS has the original starter box for AM. Should I pick that up if i"m considering building 500-750 points, and grab the newer starter later? Or just the new one with some different models?

Thought appreciated.

It really comes down to whether you want a dunecrawler or not. The original box is worth buying if you do, and isn't if you don't. In 8th, dunecrawlers fell out of favor because they are just not as good as disintegrators. But who knows what the situation will be in 9th.

So basically, it's impossible to give good advice at this point, unless that advice is: wait for the 9th edition rules.

I'd go with both.

The Dominus in the original SC box can repair non-vehicle model. While that doesn't do anything for the Skitarii, it helps with Kataphrons down the line.

The Onagar is less good compared to the Skorpius, but that doesn't make it bad. And most lists at this point level won't have many duplicate Skorpius(which is slightly more expensive in points)

Also for 500 points, you would pretty much need 2 SC boxes(and 1 old + 1 New will get you there with a few skitarii to spare).

Prices on both compared to the components:
Dominos - $36
Engineer - $33
Skitarii - $44
Onagar - $75
Scorpius - $75
SC Box - $95

Old Box contents - $155
New Box Contents - $153

So you are not going to get a better deal, unless you do not want an onager at all, the just wait for the new one.

I dunno, it's very hard to argue that 3 disintegrators is not pretty much always the best, most competitive choice in any ad mech list right now. Indirect fire is just so ridiculously powerful a tool to have that it's a very rare list that it isn't going to be the best option to take.

9th may or may not change this - if anything, it sounds like with more terrain it will become even more powerful, though that may also result in revaluing it to be more expensive. I expect you'll still see a lot of triple disintegrators even with the new points values, and, even if not, you'll definitely see 2 in almost every competitive ad mech list.

The detachment changes also mean that disintegrators are going to crowd out dunecrawlers even more than they did before. So I think a lot of people are going to find that their dunecrawlers are going to be the first things that drop out of their lists.

Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

Where is this 2 only rule you mention?

The issue with onagars is they pay alot for their 5++ reroll 1s if a buddy is nearby, so they lack a bit of firepower for similarly priced models.
Skorpius tank basically exchanges that for proper firepower, and still isnt exactly squishy so it usually doesnt die super fast unless meltas found it.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

Well obviously you won't see 3 at 750 points. The point was that as he expands the army, that dunecrawler would probably have got pushed out of the list in 8th, so it might not be the wisest long-term purchase if he wants to only buy stuff he's going to use for the long term. Of course, with 9th coming, nobody really knows any more - which is probably another reason to wait and see before buying.

Thanks everyone. Going to just get new one for now ( I love the transport, and apc in general). Might even wait til 9th drops and I can peruse the rules. But good insight here. Oh, Is the hQ in first box solid, however?

For a 500-750 points force, definitely.

For 2000 points games, it depends on whether you're going to play Mars or a different forge world. Mars lists will generally take Cawl instead of a Dominus. Non-mars lists will typically have a Dominus in them, unless they're doing something very specialized that doesn't take any major ranged firepower.

 ph34r wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

Where is this 2 only rule you mention?

The Big FAQ. Where the "Rule of 3" which is so oft cited and just cut down to that statement.

Points Limit up to 1,000 allows up to 2 detachments per army, and up to 2 times each datasheet can be included.

the "Rule of 3" is only for 1,001 - 2,000 point games.

2,001+ point games can have 4.

Read your rules instead of just blindly following the dumbed-down Memes on them.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

Where is this 2 only rule you mention?

The Big FAQ. Where the "Rule of 3" which is so oft cited and just cut down to that statement.

Points Limit up to 1,000 allows up to 2 detachments per army, and up to 2 times each datasheet can be included.

the "Rule of 3" is only for 1,001 - 2,000 point games.

2,001+ point games can have 4.

Read your rules instead of just blindly following the dumbed-down Memes on them.

Thanks. I haven’t played a game below 1000 in a few editions.

yukishiro1 wrote:
For a 500-750 points force, definitely.

For 2000 points games, it depends on whether you're going to play Mars or a different forge world. Mars lists will generally take Cawl instead of a Dominus. Non-mars lists will typically have a Dominus in them, unless they're doing something very specialized that doesn't take any major ranged firepower.

Mostly agree here.

Dominus is the second-most expensive (point-wise), but the guns are decent, and Melee isn't the worst.

The Enginseer however, is the Cheapest; and worst in-game(but still a decent seconday/tertiary HQ choice), he is only an Elite in a Guard list.

The only "better" HQ choice for your points level is a Manipulus, Middle priced, decent ranged and better melee, and provides buffs to nearby troops(along with being able to repair non-vehicle <Forge World> models).

Cawl is a Bit Pricey in both Points and cash, but many of his abilities justify the points. he is best at 1500 and above in points, along with being normal troops movement with melee-centric gear. having him and a manilpulus makes him far more durable(he self repairs d3w and manipulus can repair d3 wounds on him).

All Admech HQs are support/buffbot, which keeps the engineer weakest outside of a spearhead or vanguard(Tanks, dragons, and Kastellans are all that he can repair)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ph34r wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Currently, in matched play, you will not see 3 Skorpius in a list at OP's point levels.

Mainly because you can only take 2 of the same data sheet @500-750 points.

Where is this 2 only rule you mention?

The Big FAQ. Where the "Rule of 3" which is so oft cited and just cut down to that statement.

Points Limit up to 1,000 allows up to 2 detachments per army, and up to 2 times each datasheet can be included.

the "Rule of 3" is only for 1,001 - 2,000 point games.

2,001+ point games can have 4.

Read your rules instead of just blindly following the dumbed-down Memes on them.

Thanks. I haven’t played a game below 1000 in a few editions.

No problem, just constantly see people advocating 3 units of some sort in a 750 list because "rule of 3 bruh", or lamenting that there army cannot function in larger games because of limited unit choices preventing them from taking a 4th in a separate detachment(and all/most other choices being bad).

Its less a "rule of 3 bruh" but that most units, taking as a single one, are unreliable.
One is none, two are a threat and 3 is something that must be dealt with.

E.g. one onager will likely whiff on hurting a LR signficantly. 2 have a good chance of knocking one out, but if you run 3, not only will your opponent have a hard time taking out your anti tank quickly, but you will be more then capable of dealing with his tanks.
Same with Disintegrators and Belleros cannons. One will not likely signficantly damage something that hides of LOS, but 3 can enable them to do their job.

One of the most interesting things about 9th is whether we will start seeing any of the erosion of the 8th edition rule of thumb that you generally take 3 of anything good if you possibly can, unless you rely on buffs to make the unit work.

With points increases, taking 3 of most tanks is going to be an extremely expensive proposition - likely taking at least 1/4 of your total points, maybe even closer to 1/3. When disintegrators were 115 points, taking 3 of them in any ad mech list was a no brainer. If 3 disintegrators is 600 points, I don't know - maybe you see lists start going to only 2?

Either way, I think dunecrawlers are going to suffer most, because you really only want 2 or more so you don't waste the points on the reroll 1s on the invuln. How many lists are going to have points for 2 dunecrawlers if taking 3 disintegrators alone costs you 600 points?

600 is very, very steep.
Considering cultists whent up like 50% and intercessors I think 25%, going up 500% would be quite the outlier...
By the examples shown, I'd expect ~30% median.
But at that point, 2k games will just be the new 1,5k and not much will change at listbuilding.
The only change that could push good units out is if they get a disproportional price hike... at which point you'll likely not see them at all anymore since they'll be just pts ineffective.

600 for 3, not for 1.

Greetings. Thanks for the assistance.

The old box was snagged before I could purchase it. I picked up a nice lot, however, and am now rolling with my Ad Mech, researching color schemes.