Switch Theme:

your favourite piece of headcanon  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





 OldMate wrote:

 Tiennos wrote:


But no matter how ridiculous it is, I'd love to see some proper heavy cavalry, like space marines mounted on power-armored cyborg horses. That'd be way cooler than those silly bikes.


Well considering they take a lot of cues from mediaeval knights, who were largely highly mobile mounted warriors I'm surprised they don't do something similar and bikes (especially marine ones) would not handle difficult terrain all to well.
Also considering a knight's warhorse, bred for war and properly trained was a formidable threat (kicking and biting, sometimes given a 'unicorn' spike on their head plate, to make charges and headbutts potentially more lethal) by itself it'd make sense for marines to use, if intending to close with the enemy a genemod/cyborg mount that would complement the marine in combat.

This reminds me that thunderwolf cavalry is a thing... In this vast galaxy, there must be at least one chapter that thinks that riding into battle on a mighty steed is just too cool to pass up. And doesn't have a wolf fetish too.

Then all we need is a few chaos marines on warped-up horses and we can get some proper jousting going!
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

 Tiennos wrote:
In this vast galaxy, there must be at least one chapter that thinks that riding into battle on a mighty steed is just too cool to pass up. And doesn't have a wolf fetish too.


Go ahead and google image search "Space Marine on dinosaur". I promise, you won't be disappointed.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





I have a headcannon to explain the ordering of Imperial vehicle development and deployment. You see, all the different model version do have official marks and patterns, indicating that a MkIIc Rhino is in fact a different model from a MkIb Rhino and so on and not just "the model was updated, and now it's better looking".

So, we have, in the Rhino family:
MkIB Rhino
MkIC "Deimos" Rhino
MkIIC Rhino - Current Rhino kit
old Sisters of Battle Rhino
1st Edition Predator
MkIIIC Predator - Notably featured a number of glacis options
"Deimos" Predator
MkIVB Predator - Current Predator kit
MkIVC Predator
old Vindicator
"Deimos" Vindicator
current Vindicator
MkII "Mars" Whirlwind
MkIIB Whirlwind - Current Whirlwind kit
"Helios" Whirlwind
"Scorpio" Whirlwind - Is notably meaningfully different from the other Whirlwinds and a variant instead of a mark, but there currently isn't to my knowledge a current model for a regular Whirlwind on a Deimos chassis
Hunter
Stalker
Repressor
MkI "Orphelia" Immolator
MkIIc "Sanctorum" Immolator
MkIIIa Immolator
"Deimos" Immolator - Current Immolator kit
"Piroris" Exorcist
"Sanctorum" Exorcist
"Deimos" Exorcist - Current Exorcist kit
old Razorback
current Razorback

Key changes between these various models are the glacis, the shape of the tracks, and the shape of the doors

The fact that the Immolator and Razorback were developed in M36 after the proto-sisters discovered the partial diagrams for the former make the situation more complicated, since that means that the versions on pre-MkIIc Rhino chassis must have also been produced after those chassis marks were discontinued.
In addition, the Predator Annihilator [twin lascannons] was only developed in M36, unrelated to the Razorback and Immolator programs, but twinlas variants exist of the Deimos and MkIIIC Predators, so these also must be back-retrofits.


So, without further ado, my Headcannon:

Founding
At the founding of the Space Marine legions, it was apparent that they would need a fast and easy to maintain APC to equip them, and the Rhino MkI was developed. After revisions to the initial design prototypes to better meet specifications, the Rhino was accepted into service as the MkIb Rhino and placed into mass production.
It was desired to have as much of the legions' armouries be of a family, and so the MkIIIa Predator [First Edition Predator] was developed and placed into service. It was named the MkIII, as it replaced previous unrelated FSV's in pre-Imperial service that shared the same name.
Similarly, in order to provide responsive artillery support to the legions, the MkII "Mars" Whirlwind was also developed, replacing previous rocket artillery platforms in pre-Imperial service.

The Great Crusade
As the Great Crusade wound up, the MkIIIa Predator was discovered to have a multitude of flaws and production bottlenecks owing to it's interior layout, the design of its sponsons, and the architecture of its turret. Thus, a program of revisions was begun for it. The revisions redesigned the sponsons to be a simple "riveted box" construction and moved the turret to the front of the vehicle to improve access to the engine space and working conditions in the gun turret. The revised design also called for simplifying the domed turret into a riveted hex turret similar to the sponsons, but this revision was rolled out less universally across new production and many factories continued to use their existing casting equipment to produce domed turrets for their Predators. Revised Predators with the domed turret would be the MkIIIb, and fully revised Predators with the new hex turret would be the MkIIIc.
The lessons of the early Great Crusade also demonstrated the need for a artillery vehicle to clear strongpoints, and engineers created for the Legion the MkIa Vindicator mounting the Demolisher cannon on a MkIb Rhino chassis.

The Deimos Program
As the great crusade wore on, it became apparent that the MkIb Rhino chassis did not have fully adequate mobility in bad terrain, and the broad "Deimos" modification program was initiated to address this deficiency across all vehicles of the family. The program added an extra road wheel to improve ground pressure distribution across the track, and also added raised idlers to improve obstacle and trench crossing ability up from nearly none. This change was accepted for all vehicles and entered full scale production; fully replacing the previous vehicles by the time of the Horus Heresy.
The Predator had always proven problematic, and even after it's first revision there was general dissatisfaction with its performance. The sponsons were large and heavy, the turret cramped, the forward placement of the turret overloaded the front road wheels, and overall performance of the vehicle was generally poor. The small hex turret also limited upgradability, and a number of new weapon systems were becoming available that were wished to be able to be mounted to the FSV. The Deimos program saw severe changes to the Predator design, with armor for the sponsons being dropped entirely, and the turret greatly enlarged. The turret returned to the dome shape to save weight due to its increased size, and was moved back to the rear of the vehicle to preserve the weight distribution of the vehicle. The large turret allowed for considerable upgrade potential, and variants were created with plasma cannons, conversion beamer, and flame guns.

the Breaking of the Legions
The widespread destruction of the Horus Heresy across the Imperium meant that the foundaries that supplied the Space Marines would have to be rebuilt virtually from scratch. With the TO&E of the Space Marines changing and the loss of existing founding equipment, it was simultaneously decided to completely redesign the Rhino and its family of vehicles. The new track design was considered successful, but a number of other changes were desired. The circular split-door hatches were slow to exit through and required some degree of contortion to exit from. In addition, The earlier hatch designed provided severely limited visibility and mounting guns on top made them heavy to open and nearly impossible to ride unbuttoned, making visibility exceptionally poor. A number of designs under the MkII program were proposed to meet these new requirements, and the sum of their changes after revision would be adopted as the MkIIc Rhino. The MkIIc Rhino featured rectangular drop-ramps for fast and easy loading and unloading, and replaced the hatches with large cupolas with periscopes and split hatches that drastically improved visibility from the vehicle. In addition, the multipart riveted glacis was redesigned into a single-piece glacis with a armored protector over the vision blocks, which was easier to produce and offered better protection.
The Deimos predator has been generally successful, and the unarmored sponsons were retained for the new Predator. However the turret would be redesigned again for a large, welded hex turret with sloped sides which would be easier to produce and provide better protection than the domed turret, at the expense of increased weight. Unnecessary armament variants were dropped. The glacis plate was also revised, using the same plate at the new rhino instead of the former "bulged" design. The turret was moved forward in the hull to a more central position to make space for an improved power pack at the rear of the vehicle. This design would undergo several revisions before final acceptance as the MkIVc Predator.
Several new vehicles were also developed at this time, including the Stalker and Hunter AA tanks; which were proposed as competing designs to meet the needs of the new Chapters in air defense but were both accepted into full production.
A dedicated tank destroyer platform was also proposed as a Whirlwind variant carrying Top-Attack Guided HEAT missiles, but was deemed superfluous to requirements of the Space Marine Chapters and rejected for service. [this would be the "Sanctorum" Exorcist]

The Sisters of Battle in the Age of Apostasy
The expanding Ecclesiarchal forces also discovered the Immolator diagrams during a crusade, and engaged with negotiations with the Mechanicus in which the AdMech would gain the knowledge and the Eccelsiarchy would gain exclusive rights to the product of the cache. The AdMech began development based on the designed recovered, and combining them with the existing MkIIc Rhino produced the Immolator tank. The new IFV featured a raised superstructure to accommodate the traversing gear and turret basket, which also made its way as a new MkIII Rhino variant which was slightly larger and featured better vision ports for the passengers. The MkIII Rhino did not find widespread acceptance even within the Ecclesiarchy due to the prevalence of the MkIIc, but the MkIIIa Immolator, which was initially considered a "Armed Rhino" before being named "Immolator" by it's recipients, did.
The foundation of the Brides of the Emperor under Vandire saw the next major additions to the Rhino family. The newly created organization needed equipment to turn it from a small conclave of fanatics into the powerful army of enforcers he envisioned. They would be equipped with Rhinos as their APCs, but they needed a tank of their own to give them peer parity with the other military branches of the Imperium. For this, they turned to the discarded tank destroyer design proposed for the Space Marines after the breaking of the Legions. Some revision to use vertical launch cells instead of launch-at-angle boxes and extensive decoration later, it entered into production as the "Prioris" Exorcist.
After the Age of Apostasy, the fall of Vandire, and the officiallization of the Brides of the Emperor as the Daughters of the Emperor, the Adepta Sororitas, a massive expansion of the new organization began on a scale not seen since the founding of the legions, taking them from a single moderately large group of fanatical enforcers of 6 very large fighting orders. To accompany this expansion, many tanks were required.
As an expediency, MkIb Rhinos were taken out of mothballs and assigned to the growing orders, and a conversion kit was developed to covert them into Immolators as a stop-gap to meet their needs.
In addition, the production of the more complicated MkIII Rhino chassis for the Prioris Exorcist and the Immolator was a bottleneck on production and considered superfluous by the AdMech. Production of Exorcists would be supplemented by using the original design spec and a redesign of the Immolator was conducted to eliminate the superstructure; both were accepted in large numbers as the "Sanctorum" pattern to meet needs. However, the Immolator turret imposed upon the driver's bay without the superstructure, and the angled launch from boxes was generally considered less effective at providing all-round strike capability than the vertical launch for the Exorcist [to make no mention of the lack of ornamentation that the church desired, though that would be an addressable problem].
In M36, the Space Marines unearthed another partial design for an armed Rhino variant. The widespread success of the Immolator in Sororitas service made similar capability highly desirable for the Space Marines, and the preliminary data was turned over. The turret on the "Sanctorum" Immolator design would be moved to the back of the troop bay, where it would impinge on the troops instead of the driver, and with automation technology from the Space Marines' data was also reduced in size. This vehicle would be accepted as the Razorback. In order to meet demand for this new vehicle which came at the same time as the AdMech was already working on meeting the demands of the Sororitas, many surplus MkIb's were taken out of storage and given a conversion kit and issued to the Space Marine Chapters.

Predator Annihilator
During M36, a field conversion of the MkIVb Predator using twin lascannons started making the rounds of the Space Marine chapters, and demand was brought to the AdMech. While the Lascannons fit in the existing hex turret, the AdMech further revised the turret design to straighten the lower faces of the turret armor to make more space for the twin "breeches" of the lascannons, titling it the MkIVc Predator. Demand for the new tank would be high after it's sanctioning due to the lack of a good tank destroyer for the chapters though, and given that it did work with the regular turret, production would initially begin with the normal MkIVb turret and the MkIVc would fall by the wayside.
Retrofit kits were also rolled out for the MkIII and "Deimos" Predators to help meet demand. The MkIIIc's hex turret couldn't accommodate the upgrade, so only the MkIIIb's domed turret could be converted.

The Modern Era
The AdMech had generally sought to eliminate manufacture of the MkIII Rhino and the two tanks that were dependent upon its production, and production of two types of Exorcist and Immolator as a response to low production rates of the MkIII chassis was an unnecessary strain on the supply chain and production infrastructure with all of the imperial military organizations expanding again in the wake of the 13th Black Crusade. The Sanctorum patterns, the AdMech's preferred solutions, were generally unpopular with the Orders, and more Priors production, the Orders preferred solution, wasn't possible for the AdMech to meet while also dedicating even more production space and time to Cawl's new Space Marine tanks. The superstructures were cut away, streamlining production. The new Immolator turret was drastically increased in size and the guns moved inside the protection of the turret. A new hull heavy bolter was introduced to a revised glacis. As a consequence of the massive weight increase of the turret, the need to preserve some access for maintainence, but the reduced need for use by troops, the Deimos patter doors were reintroduced to the frame. This was, in some way, the worst of all worlds, still requiring separate vehicle production lines, but the vehicles themselves to come off were generally considered better vehicles.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




Inquisitors are +90% glorified bureaucrats, with less than 10% being the warrior vigilantes that we read and see so much. likewise and Inquisitor isn't going to move mountains if they don't have the force in numers to back it up.
   
Made in au
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot







Caradman Sturnn wrote:
likewise and Inquisitor isn't going to move mountains if they don't have the force in numers to back it up.


Of course! there's a fine line between arrogance that gets you killed and arrogance that succeeds in reaching your aim. This fine line can be widened greatly when you have five times as many soldiers in quality and quantity than the other guy.

I'd like to add that maybe 80% of conflicts the imperium is engaged in is with itself. Not traitors, not heretics or aliens(not even their interference) which would call for the no doors barred exterminate all resistance. But conflicts that actually require force to contain with all belligerents being emperor fearing imperials which are sometimes carried out respectfully, but often they can get ugly. You might then have break away groups that go beyond the pale and start trading in with the traitors and xenos but these would be the minority and quickly dealt with(by all sides of the conflict).

IG tank troops/platoons are generally made up of a strength of 4-5 or 6-8, this is scaled down for tabletop use to units of 3 much like bolt action and other wargames. Much like a guard infantry platoon on the table top will regularly be at a strength of 20-25 soldiers rather than 40-50 or so. Therefore a full platoon of baneblades, with a command tank, and say two sections of three tanks would be your platoon, and then your company would be 17-22 baneblade gun tanks including company command, which would additionally have super heavy recovery vehicles, APC, and a few jeeps as run-arounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/18 08:23:10


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 OldMate wrote:
Caradman Sturnn wrote:
likewise and Inquisitor isn't going to move mountains if they don't have the force in numers to back it up.


Of course! there's a fine line between arrogance that gets you killed and arrogance that succeeds in reaching your aim. This fine line can be widened greatly when you have five times as many soldiers in quality and quantity than the other guy.

I'd like to add that maybe 80% of conflicts the imperium is engaged in is with itself. Not traitors, not heretics or aliens(not even their interference) which would call for the no doors barred exterminate all resistance. But conflicts that actually require force to contain with all belligerents being emperor fearing imperials which are sometimes carried out respectfully, but often they can get ugly. You might then have break away groups that go beyond the pale and start trading in with the traitors and xenos but these would be the minority and quickly dealt with(by all sides of the conflict).


Indeed. All the various Imperial institutions and Inquisitors have their own goals and priorities, all of which might be legitimately argued as being in the Imperium's interests. The question though is which gets priority to time and resources, and in the Imperium such struggles can go beyond the bureaucratic into actual physical violence.

An example of this would be the early stages of the whole Badab conflict, when the Astral Claws wanted more resources to launch a crusade. However in time their claim to certain areas for their resources started interfering with the ability of other Imperial systems to meet their tithes, ultimately starting the slide towards the Badab war.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/18 11:15:23


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: