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I finally got my turn facing the 3.5 nurgle army. i was running a mix of salamanders (5th) and grey knight allies(3rd)

I had a MOTF on a bike with conversion beamer, tac squad with razorback, scout sniper team, doredeo dreadnought, storm hawk and storm eagle (ROC pattern)

with an allied GK grand master w/retinue and a GK terminator squad.



The game was 2K points with a single "king of the hill" center objective.

Chaos went first, managing to take out my razorback and dread, i never managed to kill his raider but i got his "predator" proxy, he was running the named great unclean one-Ku'gath who i managed to shoot to death. my scout snipers did a number on his terminators and when the GKs showed up they turned the tables quickly. he managed to contest the objective on turn 7 and we ended up without a tie breaker as he had first blood and i had slay the warlord. the game was pretty fun and went very fast. it took maybe and hour to get through 7 turns.

In the end i had my GK grand master and 3 terminators left. my storm eagle and master of the forge. he had his land raider, 2 obliterators, and the squad of plague bearers that had walked back onto the table thanks to the GK demonic incursion special rule.

It was time for a switch up. my salamanders have been in rotation for several months now so it was time for something other than marines.

It is time for the machine god



My list is pretty easy and well rounded. i play FW lucius-i also use mostly 3rd party or 3d printed minis to represent the army as i was going for more of a spider walker themed force.

.tech priest dominus
.cataphron breacher squad
.cataphron destroyer squad
.sicarian infiltrators
.X3 dune crawlers
.super heavy detchment-macharius tank

Game 1 i did battle against the forces of nurgle. we had 5 objectives. as per my suggestion since i had grave cannons he brought a demon heavy force. it was a pretty fun game and we basically fought each other to a tie in every way.





Game 2 the black templar decided to just try and purge me.....it didn't go well for him.

At the end of the game he had 2 models left on the table....one being a drop pod.

i lost my destroyer squad, a single crawler and a few sicarians

 aphyon wrote:
I finally got my turn facing the 3.5 nurgle army. i was running a mix of salamanders (5th) and grey knight allies(3rd)

I had a MOTF on a bike with conversion beamer, tac squad with razorback, scout sniper team, doredeo dreadnought, storm hawk and storm eagle (ROC pattern)

with an allied GK grand master w/retinue and a GK terminator squad.

Spoiler:

The game was 2K points with a single "king of the hill" center objective.

Chaos went first, managing to take out my razorback and dread, i never managed to kill his raider but i got his "predator" proxy, he was running the named great unclean one-Ku'gath who i managed to shoot to death. my scout snipers did a number on his terminators and when the GKs showed up they turned the tables quickly. he managed to contest the objective on turn 7 and we ended up without a tie breaker as he had first blood and i had slay the warlord. the game was pretty fun and went very fast. it took maybe and hour to get through 7 turns.

In the end i had my GK grand master and 3 terminators left. my storm eagle and master of the forge. he had his land raider, 2 obliterators, and the squad of plague bearers that had walked back onto the table thanks to the GK demonic incursion special rule.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Very cool, were you playing 5th edition?

Yes our group runs core 5th ed with a few house rules imported from other editions to prevent abuse or add a bit of flavor to the game. it is stuff i put on this thread on page 1.

How do you balance new units Into the older systems?

Or is it playtesting until it feel alright?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How do you balance new units Into the older systems?

Or is it playtesting until it feel alright?

It is quite easy, it only works with cross compatible 3rd-7th ed codexes.

For new units imported into old codexes-IE heldrake into 3.5 chaos
1.take the new base points cost
2.take all upgrades and rules from the 3.5 chaos codex

For new codexes that never existed in 5th- IE admech
use all the rules and points from the codex however all USRs must comply with their 5th ed counterparts or are outright ignored.
.example-dunestrider-adds an extra 3" movement to represent the ability to traverse rough terrain.
in 5th all non-jump infantry have a fixed 6" move, the comparable USR would be move through cover-roll 3d6 instead of 2 and take the highest when rolling for difficult terrain.
If a compatible USR does not exist in 5th the special rule is ignored.

We also disallowed certain rules that were abusive like the "blind" psychic power. or the wound allocation shenanigans from 5th (we use the clear and simple 4th ed version)

Could you use the Horus Heresy Rules as a baseline to import new models/units?

1.0 only as it was based on 7th. in fact that is what we use for the lion share of custodes rules as the mini dex they had in 7th doesn't cover all their units.

Also most of the "rare" 30K variant units can be used 1 per army as a "relic" such as a predator with a melta cannon i occasionally use for my salamanders etc...

In addition to all the old codexes i have with me at all game nights ( 4th ed demons codex was added after this pic was taken)-



i also have hard copies of all the index astartes books and the 3rd ed chapter approved with VDR rules as well as most of the FW books(HH and regular FW), and those i don't own hard copies of i have on PDF. so our gameplay options are large.

2 games tonight with my admech. doing some house 5th ed

Since i was playing admech i broke out the admech table,

game 1 was against a guard armored company circa IA volume 1. he brought out all the toys, infernus shells, a hell hammer etc. he managed to go first and his dice were rolling hot, lost half my army on turn 1. i never recovered but it was still a fun game-

set up was table quarters with 4 objectives-







Game 2 was against chaos(3.5) and it was a much closer thing-

5 objectives with standard setup. he got to do something he hardly ever do and use his raptors as an HQ delivery system.

It was a good fight and we were both running on fumes by the end. i had 2 dune crawlers, my tech priest dominus and a squad of sicarian infiltrators left on the table, and he had 1 chaos lord (the other one picked a fight with my dominus and got bonked repeatedly by his axe until he stayed down). a chaos leviathan dreadnought, and 3 obliterators. he won by doing the smart thing and hiding as best he could on 3 objectives to my 2. good close game.

Something i don't get to do all that often-break out my epic 40k Using the Armageddon rules-

I let my opponent borrow a force of my guard (elysians/deathkorps) with titan support.

against my Iyanden wraith list.

The table



We each chose a target building in our enemies deployment zone to be our objectives.

It was a pretty brutal game with me killing everything but his reaver and his elysians (who broke and then rallied). my wraith unit and my fighters were the only things had left on my side of the table.

Imperial victory-

What fun-

By request i broke out my old 4th ed tyranid assault list and did 3 games-

I ended up borrowing some minis but the other guy didn't have enough warriors so i had to proxy with 40MM bases-rippers, hive guard, tyrant guard etc...

My list
.brood lord
.X2 gene stealer broods (12) with scuttling
.X2 warrior broods (9) with leaping
.X2 super carnifexes (barbed strangler, venom cannon and all the bells and whistles
.X3 zoanathropes(squad)

Game 1 was against iron hands, he tooled his list up just to fight me as i designed to the army as a melee force.

he put some infantry forces on the flanks to slow down the stealers and it worked to a point but i managed to get close enough to him to lock up most of his units in CC and when the leviathan was about to be ended by a carnifex he called the game.







Game 2 was a bit tougher as i had to battle my way through the defenses. the stuff that did come out to play didn't last long. his venerable dread got smashed by a carnifex and his terminator squad misshaped when it tried to drop in on the stealers assaulting his left bunker.....so i got to place them......in between 2 warrior broods and a stealer brood-the dinner bell was rung.

It took the battering ram of a carnifex to open up his walls and at that point it was basically over (that fex also regenerated 3 wounds in one turn)

The primaris tank was being proxied as a typhon siege tank.









The last game was against black templar- it was nice of them to come out and fight me, and it was the closest game. neither carnifexes regenerated and both died this game, however the templars also lost both spartans and almost all their infantry. only the emperors champion and a squad of crimson fists thrown in as a joke survived the game.

My side had a brood lord, a single zoanathrope and parts of the 2 stealer squads left.

I started back in 2nd edition. I was solely a fantasy player before that. Never really looked back after moving to 40k.

I have fond memories of 2nd through 5th but I would probably say 5th was my overall favorite. I moved across the country at the end of 5th and had just found a new local game group when 6th landed. It killed that group pretty quickly unfortunately. So I didn't get into 6th as much as I had wanted to. I dabbled in 7th and 8th a bit but nothing stuck. I don't think I played 9th at all that I can recall. I moved back to my original location and my old group of friends have gotten into 10th quite a bit. So I'm giving that a go for now.

If 5th had the codex release pace of 10th along with the frequent points and balance changes, I don't think id have ever moved to a new edition.

The god machines walked once again (using the original 3rd ed stats from FW for normal games of 40K)

It was something new for my opponent...he actually brought infantry for his guard instead of running an armored company.



I ran a mix of 3rd party mins to represent my admech force of cataphrons and skitarii with the warhound and dominus being actual 40K minis. and i even used the flame cannon this game on the warhound.



We did a 4 objective game and he moved quickly to occupy the center of the table, my infantry was tough but he managed to wear them down. i did manage first blood for killing the hellhound/bane wolf (it became important later) he actually went hard the first few turns, by the end of the game he had me down to 2 cataphron destroyers, the dominus and the warhound with a single structure point remaining...and then it all fell apart. i had taken out almost all of his weapons above S7 so he was relying on the vendetta to finish off the titan and he just couldn't pull it off. i had taken the main gun off his medusa, and he had threatened to repair it with his tech priest....i answered that with the appropriate amount of force...a vulcan mega bolter, lets say no further repairs were made that day.

The end of the game technically was a tie as we both held a single objective. so we had to go to tie breakers. he had line breaker, i had slay the warlord for taking out his command squad....it came down to first blood, the one i mentioned earlier.





The next game he did was his entire force at 4K points VS a black templar list-it was a sight-

My entire 3rd Edition Crimson Fists army minus the 35th anniversary mini and the Land Speeder squadron that's getting turned into 3 Tornadoes.

^Nice. How many points is that?

Three Vindicators is a fun move in that era. I approve.

Ah... Just realized that can't be a list though, because you have at least four Heavy Support units and five HQs.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Nice. How many points is that?

Three Vindicators is a fun move in that era. I approve.

Ah... Just realized that can't be a list though, because you have at least four Heavy Support units and five HQs.

It's my model pool for forming a list. If I total it all up, including those three Tornadoes I'm working on, then it may very well get it to 3,000 points, in which case you can double the FOC.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Nice. How many points is that?

Three Vindicators is a fun move in that era. I approve.

Ah... Just realized that can't be a list though, because you have at least four Heavy Support units and five HQs.

It's my model pool for forming a list. If I total it all up, including those three Tornadoes I'm working on, then it may very well get it to 3,000 points, in which case you can double the FOC.

Ahh gotcha. Nice.

I'm still on the same army I started in 5th edition. If I ever finish my last 4 Rhinos (of 10) I'll post a picture of the completed company + auxilliaries.

Reading the old editions just makes me sad with nostalgia because it shows when GW actually cared (or pretended to care). I was skimming the 5e book for example and it's so much better than the crap we have now it's like night and day.

The problem is finding people to play it, and then having to hunt for old models on ebay because it doesn't look right to be playing like 3rd edition 40k but proxying Primaris.

It's a goddamn shame that 3d printing hasn't taken more of that niche of "here are the old type models that GW won't make anymore so you can play Oldhammer"

Wayniac wrote:
Reading the old editions just makes me sad with nostalgia because it shows when GW actually cared (or pretended to care)

It certainly felt like the codex writers were more active in playing the game as a hobby, though that also showed in things like blatant favoritism at times.

I think, even though they did do FAQs and ocasional updates, when you didn't have prevalancy of PDF's and online updates, you kinda had to have things more hammered down and less likely to NEED updated when you had things out in books, though they did have White Dwarf available to publish updates in. From what I see people are just constantly waiting for and/or reacting to PDF updates that come out and it seems like a bad cycle to be in.

A.T. wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Reading the old editions just makes me sad with nostalgia because it shows when GW actually cared (or pretended to care)

It certainly felt like the codex writers were more active in playing the game as a hobby, though that also showed in things like blatant favoritism at times.

I mean it's also no shock that pretty much all of the designers who are considered good, who made 40k what it is, left GW and went to work for competitors (or as consultants in Alessio's case), while the current 40k team are dunderheads like Robin Cruddace still.

BanjoJohn wrote:
I think, even though they did do FAQs and ocasional updates, when you didn't have prevalancy of PDF's and online updates, you kinda had to have things more hammered down and less likely to NEED updated when you had things out in books, though they did have White Dwarf available to publish updates in. From what I see people are just constantly waiting for and/or reacting to PDF updates that come out and it seems like a bad cycle to be in.

Actually the rules still had problems back then - the difference is without an FAQ/Errata you had to house-rule it or (at least in the UK) Phone Da Rulz Trollz (ergo phone GW customer support) for an answer.

The cycle we are in now is BETTER because GW is publishing updates to regular questions and errors more promptly and on a more defined cycle. I've said it before, but I still recall when Tyranids got their edition FAQ in the last month of that edition of rules. We also had armies skip whole editions, both Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle skipped editions and didn't get codex updates so they were still legal, but running on rules systems that were outdated to the core rules.


What we have now is BETTER. The problem is alongside this better deployment and swifter attention to the rules we have the 3 year cycle. A 3 year edition of rules that are wiped clean at the end of those 3 years. This is the cornerstone of the problem; the rules aren't able to settle because as soon as we start to get toward that the new edition appears and the slate is wiped clean and it starts over all again. When you add on top the fact that GW publishes new rules and codex for every army for every edition now; this means the writers are likely working at a bonkers speed to get codex after codex out and then the new edition and more codex etc....

There's no time for the system to settle into a polishing phase; there's no time for it to ease off the pressure and shift to where codex updates might be more a collection of all the FAQ/Errata into an updated book along with a few new models etc...


Basically GW is doing a lot right, but with the 3 year cycle its too fast for it to actually work. A 10 year cycle on rule editions (with perhaps 3 cycles of updated publications) would be VASTLY superior and would really let things get polished up.

If you go back and read the designers' notes from 4th and 5th editions, it's clear that they had actual reasons for making changes (nobody was using Man Alone checks anyway, so we removed them, having no wound allocation meant specialists were always the last models alive regardless of unit size so we added Torrent of Fire, etc.)

Whereas by 8th ed. we'd got to 'rules had to be short so we cut morale to save pages'.

Just as long as we can chose to forget the great evil that was the Blood Angels and their Deep Striking Land Raiders (I want to blame Mat Ward, but he was Ultramarines, if my memory serves).

Good news!

I don't know if that makes me happy or sad.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Just as long as we can chose to forget the great evil that was the Blood Angels and their Deep Striking Land Raiders

Not Creed and his outflanking warlord titan?

A.T. wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Just as long as we can chose to forget the great evil that was the Blood Angels and their Deep Striking Land Raiders

Not Creed and his outflanking warlord titan?

I used to play Imperial Guard, so I see no issues with this. It is 100% fluffy and makes sense rules wise and.... err... ummmm... uhh... some really good reasons.

Unlike a bunch of Crimson Mobile Drop Pods of Lascannon Death that dislodge 1500 points of pain behind you, before lascannoning your poor Chimeras and gleefully giggling while your guardsmen are atomized in a fire explosion.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Unlike a bunch of Crimson Mobile Drop Pods of Lascannon Death that dislodge 1500 points of pain behind you, before lascannoning your poor Chimeras and gleefully giggling while your guardsmen are atomized in a fire explosion.

Are you saying you didn't castle up in the corner for the entire game with an ordo malleus inquisitor and two mystics?

A.T. wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Unlike a bunch of Crimson Mobile Drop Pods of Lascannon Death that dislodge 1500 points of pain behind you, before lascannoning your poor Chimeras and gleefully giggling while your guardsmen are atomized in a fire explosion.

Are you saying you didn't castle up in the corner for the entire game with an ordo malleus inquisitor and two mystics?

Not the first time, I was used to the Blood Angels driving across the tabletop, not falling from the skies.