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Hi all,

With another big and fancy 40k box on the horizon, I thought it'd be interesting to do a bit of a litmus test of people's general opinions on reselling products like these.

From what I know, Idomitus is due to be £120 in the UK. If you search for it on ebay, you can already find listings of people doing preorders for them reselling the box. There's one person selling each army for £100, which if you take into account the rulebook is almost certainly reselling the box for more than double its retail value. Another selling is offering £75 per army, which is a little more reasonable. No doubt once Indomitus is no long available from GW, the prices will be jacked up even more. So this leads to the question: How much is too much before it becomes an immoral thing to do?

I've never done it before, but I'm honestly thinking of reselling this box myself. I do take offense from people scalping these products for 2x or 3x or even more times margins, but does it make me a bad person for wanting to flip it for say, £50 profit? I don't know. I would be interested to hear any thoughts on the matter!! Cheers.

I think this is a move.

40k is already pretty expensive so there's no need of it in my opinion

Deleted.

It is moral if you make an honest profit.

Do it as much as you can.

I didnt vote on your poll since you have no positive options.

I'll be honest it has crossed my mind only as a cheaper way to purchase a rule book. Especially if the models in the box aren't going to availae outaide of the box for a while.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I think this is a move.

40k is already pretty expensive so there's no need of it in my opinion

To play devil's advocate a little here: What about reselling it in parts? There are listings currently for the special characters priced at around £12 each, which is cheaper than GW would offer them for individually. If someone wants to pick up just 1 model, then surely that's good for both the seller and the buyer? Even if overall, the seller is making a huge profit over the whole box.

Does splitting it change anyone's opinion?

Buying it purely to then resell it as a unit for a profit is unethical IMO, but buying it to split into a few sections and selling those separately (while turning a little profit in the meantime) is fine as long as you aren't taking the mick with the prices.

So if (assuming the £120 price point is accurate) you sold the Necron models and Marine models for £60 per side and the rulebook for £40, turning an overall £40 profit, that seems fine to me. Selling them for £100 per side and the rulebook for £50, for a £130 profit... not so much. I have no idea where exactly the line between "okay" and not lies, though, but as a rule I'd say the more effort you go to and the more flexibility you offer (i.e. the more you refine the division), the more profit is acceptable.

I chose the second option of the poll because that seems most appropriate, but it needed explanation IMO because you don't differentiate between wholesale scalping and splitting it up for an overall profit.

shmvo wrote:


Does splitting it change anyone's opinion?

No. Its your property. If you can sell each model for 900 bucks, do it.

Why are you feeling any guilt for something you've done nothing immoral in?

The fact you had to come here and ask means you kinda know the answer.

It's not against the law, but it's a gakky thing to do. Decide whether you're ok being an donkey-cave to make some money.

Edited since apparently dakka doesn't censor some swear words lol

Many of those £100 per army sets won't sell fast and there are some resellers who sell things at insane prices on ebay. Heck there's a store in Germany that lists in the UK ebay and every single product is overpriced even compared to brand new retail from GW direct.

In general the overpriced prey on the desperate and impatient and ill informed.



I dislike resellers when a product is true limited and when its clear that its an organised and targeted reselling system that is aiming to strip as much stock as they can. The odd reseller doing one or two things here and there I don't worry about - someone who manages to get a significant portion of stock and resell it at a high profit value, that I do dislike. It's legal, but its not an activity I like and not one I'd want to support.


That said you can bet once this boxed set goes on general sale the resellers will be squashed under a tide of people selling the half of the box they don't want; plus those who get two or more boxes selling off spare rule books. In general that results in the prices going down, often very sharply. But its often very quick and will last perhaps the week or two it goes on sale before vanishing. Depending, of course, on how well the box sells and how fast it runs out of stock.

It can also depend on the rarity and desirability of segments. Eg Feast of Bones the Ossiarch half was harder to get hold of, whilst the Ogor half was harder to sell on. Ogor players only wanted the new lord; whilst Ossiarch players wanted it all.




Personally I plan to get the set and I'll be selling the Marines - likely at the £60 value (half the boxed set) or lower (since the set includes the rulebook). If I get a second set then yep I'll be selling on the rulebook.
I'll generally go for what the market wants.

TBH I bought the custom black Adeptus Custodes dice from GW because I love custodes and loved the dice (I also have the golden ones).

But with Coronavirus I have not even been able to open and use them. Now I see that they are sold on ebay for 80€ without a problem. Thats like 75% of the price of the indomitus box if I buy it from UK at a discount.

I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

 Galas wrote:
TBH I bought the custom black Adeptus Custodes dice from GW because I love custodes and loved the dice (I also have the golden ones).

But with Coronavirus I have not even been able to open and use them. Now I see that they are sold on ebay for 80€ without a problem. Thats like 75% of the price of the indomitus box if I buy it from UK at a discount.

I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

Eh there's nothing wrong in reselling.

The moral issue is when someone buys a limited edition product with the intention of reselling purely for profit. Gamers are well known to buy more than we can work with and often have to offload excess, sometimes brand new in the box.

Just remember that sometimes rare items on ebay have a very high price because no one is willing to pay that price. That's why its still on ebay unsold. Instead you might find that sold-listings or trade sites show a much lower price. Sure the item might be out of stock, but there's a cap on what sane prices people will tolerate for a product.

 Galas wrote:
I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

No. You are a good person if you sell those dice for 500 bucks. You'd be a bad person for feeling guilty for not doing anything wrong.

The only way this would be immoral is if you sold the dice and lied about them in some way, so that the person you sold them to didn't get what they paid for. If you sold 10 dice at 500 bucks, and only sent him 9 dice, then yes, you'd be a bad person. If he wants to buy your dice for 1 million dollars each, and you are not defrauding him, then you are a good person. The dice are your property. You and the other party set the terms for the trade as you two see fit, as long as neither of you are using force against the other.

 Overread wrote:

 Galas wrote:
TBH I bought the custom black Adeptus Custodes dice from GW because I love custodes and loved the dice (I also have the golden ones).

But with Coronavirus I have not even been able to open and use them. Now I see that they are sold on ebay for 80€ without a problem. Thats like 75% of the price of the indomitus box if I buy it from UK at a discount.

I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

Eh there's nothing wrong in reselling.

The moral issue is when someone buys a limited edition product with the intention of reselling purely for profit. Gamers are well known to buy more than we can work with and often have to offload excess, sometimes brand new in the box.

Just remember that sometimes rare items on ebay have a very high price because no one is willing to pay that price. That's why its still on ebay unsold. Instead you might find that sold-listings or trade sites show a much lower price. Sure the item might be out of stock, but there's a cap on what sane prices people will tolerate for a product.

I know, I know, I have make quite the profite reselling old warhammer fantasy stuff from local stores that had it on stock for ages! But yeah. I can't morally critique anyone for doing this. At the end of the day is scalping of a luxury that isn't even that relevant for the hobby as a whole. Like the catachan colonel. Nobody loses anything relevant for not having it.

 BuFFo wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

No. You are a good person if you sell those dice for 500 bucks. You'd be a bad person for feeling guilty for not doing anything wrong.

The only way this would be immoral is if you sold the dice and lied about them in some way, so that the person you sold them to didn't get what they paid for. If you sold 10 dice at 500 bucks, and only sent him 9 dice, then yes, you'd be a bad person. If he wants to buy your dice for 1 million dollars each, and you are not defrauding him, then you are a good person. The dice are your property. You and the other party set the terms for the trade as you two see fit, as long as neither of you are using force against the other.

You are definitely over simplifying the morality argument.

Say, for instance, someone was dying. They require medicine to live. You have that medicine. You charge them the price of everything they own for it. That would be immoral. This happened with Martin Shkreli; he bought and raised the price of a life-saving AIDs pill by 5000%. That is not 'good business', that's a very very bad man exploiting what people are willing to pay for the sake of his own greed.

I KNOW. THESE ARE SILLY TOY SPACEMEN - THIS ISN'T LIFE OR DEATH. But, the example helps us establish a precident. What could be considered a fair exchange of goods should be an equally mutually beneficial one, not one that is heavily weighted to one side. Just because someone is willing to pay 5x the price of, say, the Sisters of Battle army box, it does not mean that it is a morally sound thing to do.

Reselling a box with a huge markup definitely cannot be described as a 'kind' or 'decent' action; it's taking advantage of - as has been mentioned previously - ignorant or desparate people. That's immoral. At best, it's amoral. But 'amoral', unfortunately, just means 'immoral' in my eyes.



It is a very interesting spread on the poll also, I was expecting this to be a lot more polarising..

Deleted.

Obviously no one gets to define anyone else's morality; that's not the point of any posts in this thread, I'm sure. Having discussions about morality helps us define morality for ourselves. It's healthy.

Also not a comparison; as stated in the post.

shmvo wrote:

Does splitting it change anyone's opinion?

Scalping is detestable but splitting things and selling them for a small profit is fine. Then you're actually providing an useful service to people who are only interested in some of the contents.

Deleted.

I'm goijg to take a slightly different tack here but gicen the price of the box is X yet we expect GW to sell the models contained in said box for Y after the boxset goes away is splitting the box in A B & cC moral as long as A+B+C is less and Y? Is that still true if A+B+C is more than X?

One could argue "A fool and his money...", but scalping does seem pretty scummy. That's why Grotsnik set up his little Facebook group, to combat such behaviour.

Splitting the box up though? That's pretty normal. I fully intend to get an extra set of those new Destroyer people, another of the tall Necron walkers, and maybe even a second set of Primaris bikes once Bits & Kits has them up for sale.

Everything that we have seen and know about the Indomitus box suggests that you're probably not going to be able to successfully scalp the Indomitus box because the quanitities its been produced in are fairly ridiculous. We've seen the import logs of the box set into the US already, the number of copies shipped is large. Very large.

The other issue is that far as we know no content is unique to that box and if it is then its likely to only be the push-fit versions (which arguably are the less valued at large). The new four legged walker for the Necrons, for example, will likely be more valued as a complete kit with its optional weapon and other parts; than as a single version pushfit.

So whilst there will no doubt be active trading and purchasing of it when the boxed set is new, its price won't go that high and its unlikely to gain any long term value. If anything once the regular kits come out they will be the "best" price you could possibly get; and for pushfit people will typically pay less.

The only thing that might be scalpable is if any of the heroes are unique and the limited edition rulebook itself. Though the former we might not learn of for ages and the latter is likely to take ages before the stocks run fully dry. Plus its a big rulebook - once you're past die-ahrd collectors (who will likely jump on it very fast) the market gets quite small for limited edition rules and such. Esp when the edition itself has a limited lifespan of a few years.


It's a splitters dream, but not a scalpers dream. A scalpers dream is more the 1500 limited edition book that went on sale last week - very limited production; totally unique content that won't be released outside of it and very unlikely to get a reprint (and if it does then we are likely talking years away). That's what scalpers really want - something that will gain value over time and which starts out pretty high anyway. Right now if you want one then a scalper is about the only option (a reseller seling excess hobby is possible considering how corona is messing up a lot more people financially; but its very unlikely). So its a sellers market and they can set whatever insane price they want.

shmvo wrote:
You are definitely over simplifying the morality argument.

Say, for instance, someone was dying. They require medicine to live. You have that medicine. You charge them the price of everything they own for it. That would be immoral. This happened with Martin Shkreli; he bought and raised the price of a life-saving AIDs pill by 5000%. That is not 'good business', that's a very very bad man exploiting what people are willing to pay for the sake of his own greed.

I KNOW. THESE ARE SILLY TOY SPACEMEN - THIS ISN'T LIFE OR DEATH. But, the example helps us establish a precident. What could be considered a fair exchange of goods should be an equally mutually beneficial one, not one that is heavily weighted to one side. Just because someone is willing to pay 5x the price of, say, the Sisters of Battle army box, it does not mean that it is a morally sound thing to do.

Reselling a box with a huge markup definitely cannot be described as a 'kind' or 'decent' action; it's taking advantage of - as has been mentioned previously - ignorant or desparate people. That's immoral. At best, it's amoral. But 'amoral', unfortunately, just means 'immoral' in my eyes.



It is a very interesting spread on the poll also, I was expecting this to be a lot more polarising..

Uh, no. That's demonstrably not how any of this works.

What you you have here is a logical fallacy. It's mostly an appeal to reason / falsely equivocating, or honestly even a strawman.

To put that simply: Life saving medicine (or anything which is required to live) is not even remotely equivalent to toy soldiers. The main reason being that one of them is purchased for a dopamine rush, where as the other has to be purchased to stay alive.

In more complicated terms, the immorality of gouging for essential services (usually healthcare / medicine) is that they're essential. People will be forced to pay, no matter the cost, because it's something fundamental which they cannot live without. This means that you'll be forcing people to choose between death, willing robbery, or sacrificing their own morality via forcing them into theft / something else And that's to speak nothing of pain & suffering, which is inarguably something someone would face if forced to - say - spend all their food on medicine to stay alive, and were then forced to subsist on molding bred and rotting rat carcasses.

Plastic models are not in any way critical to anyone's survival, and are in fact a luxury good. This means that there is no morality based pricing structure because purchasing them is completely optional. No one is going to die this month because they didn't' get some Necron Warriors, nor will you have dramatically increased chance of heart attack / heart failure because you couldn't afford to pick up that extra box of Possessed this month. Furthermore, this allows the market to self correct, because value is assigned on an individual based and isn't tied to anything such as... your life.

So even if some absolute madman purchased every Indominitus Box around the globe and posted them for $5,000.00 a piece, so that no one could secure a single box for less, there would be no moral issue with this. That person would (probably) lose money as (I assume) a majority of people in the world would recognize that price point as being much to high, and therefor not buy. This would inevitably lead to the market correcting itself as the price gradually lowered in order for that mad lad to make sales and earn his money back. This is (once again) in contrast to medicine because no one will suffer any kind of harm or reduced health as a result of not getting their hands on an Indomitus Box. Unless you put a gun to their head and make them purchase one on thread of terminal lead poisoning.

So yeah. This analogy is wildly, wildly off base.

A better one would've been to compare life saving medical procedures with cosmetic surgery such as breast implants or nose jobs. Or scalping Indomitus boxes vs your FLG jacking up the price on their remaining stock as soon as it became clear that there was no remaining stock at GW.

I'm after the rulebook and maybe some accessories. I have no interest in either army seeing as Im stuck with failcast models for my faction.. I might as well get the rulebook+bits for free and make a bit of a profit going towards some fancy FW model or somethign I can butcher for a conversion.



From experience the marine stuff sells at premium...

Scummy move IMHO. But people do it all the time. Big reason why GW's constant limited boxes is bullgak

I agree with the poster that said that ultimately it's on GW for deliberately stifling supply in order to artificially raise its value. I couldn't with a good conscience deliberately price gouge, but I don't think too poorly of people who do.

Have at ‘er. People make money in all kinds of ways. The entire premise of Business is you make a profit.

So, if you wish to engage in business, you take a risk and reap a reward... hopefully. Consider that if you purchase the boxes, and don’t sell them... sucks to be you. So that’s the nature of profit. Risk and reward.

So buying and reselling is ok. Because there’s no guarantee of profit.

In fact the price of the box is what I need to decide if I either buy the box from GW and try somehow to find an exit for those necrons (maybe eBay resell them or give them away for free) or just wait for the scalpers to split it and just buy the Primaris half I am interested in. If it is truly 120£ (140-150€?) Then I'll buy the box and sell the necrons for 50 or 60. If it is over 200, then yes, I'll save myself the hassle of either reselling or finding them necrons a worthy owner and just go to splitscalpers on ebay.

Extracting value without the addition of any productivity, via the creation of a product or service, is deemed inefficient by every school of economic thought afaia, (splitters are creating a new product so i don't really have an issue with that). its no different to ticket scalping for instance.

So many people in this thread seem to be confusing the right to do something with it being the right thing to do. if you're only argument is 'it's not illegal' then you might want to re-examine your position.