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The thing is with a subscription product is that you need new content, otherwise why am I paying a subscription cost and not a one off software licence cost? It's fine when its the £1-3 battlescribe costs for a year, but when its £4 a month, what new content am I getting in the second month? what about the third? what about the 11th month when i've already paid £40 ? and the only answer is faqs and rules/points errata that should be free anyway, and the odd time a new unit comes out for an army you've already brought the codex for, which arguably should be free anyway (i already paid for the rules on paper when i bought the unit)

if they had released it as a one off cost of £48 with free updates for a whole year! (at which point you need to start all over again) we'd rightly be saying that was an absurdly high cost, but GW, like the majority of companies putting out monthly subscriptions, know if they break it down to just £4 a month enough people will think that its cheap and go for it.

Not giving us access to all 9e rules (including codexes) via subscription was a fatal mistake for me. Won't use the app until that happens.

Actually, if the subscription cost gave you access to all the rules, all the codexes, all the errata, all the faqs, even then it wouldn't be a good deal. The minute you stop paying the subscription you lose access to the content. If you buy the books at least you have them for however long the paper and ink hold up.

If it was that level of content at a nominal fee ($1-$2 a month) I’d subscribe just for the connivance, and I might be interested in flipping through the old armies rules.

But at that price, which is roughly two codexes a year, nope. The value added to my game experience is just not there.

How many codexes does the average person buy? While some soup heavy lists might take half a dozen, I suspect the average guy might own 1-3ish. One primary army, a secondary, and maybe a spare one for a allied contingent. If you add in other books, how many are you picking up over a course of an edition?

Where this price point is is going to be more in subscriptions costs then most players shell out for dead tree editions. At this point they could just offer up their whole library of rules and crunch. People who want the fluff, the missions, the stories, etc will still want the books. Having access to all the rules would encourage me to buy more models.

This is the worst of both worlds. They are charging premium prices, and delivering bare bones. If they add more features, I’ll consider upping. I’m going to install it anyway. I plan on getting a new codex, so might as well use the code. But staying at the free level.

I would have paid $5/month for access to my codex (which auto-updates for every new errata/CA/whatever)+self-updating points+army builder.

Basically, I would have paid $5/month for all the features that battlescribe offers for essentially free (don't give me that "it's not free you have ads" crap). Hell, I could even accept a base $5/month for auto-updating core rules+army builder+only one codex of my choice that auto-updates its rules and points, with a +$1/month add-on for each additional codex I want to add to my account. If I wanted the rules for 10 codices therefore, it would cost $5/month base + an additional $9/month. I would pay that!

But with the business model they're going with, I don't see a reason to move away from battlescribe (which I am currently paying the subscription for!)+torrented rules PDFs that I can access at will from all my mobile devices and PC.

If im going to get the rules for a codex I already bought. What am I getting for the subscription that not free already ?

crap I just realised something.. Its highly possible they will put FAQ's behind this paywall with this new model... that would be lunacy but its already lunacy what they are proposing.

Its a bit disappointing, considering competitors.

Guess they not willing to give up the book cash yet. If they hide the FAQ's behind the paywall then noway, Its bad enough the army building functions seem to be. And that is most of why i want apps in the first place.

 Argive wrote:
If im going to get the rules for a codex I already bought. What am I getting for the subscription that not free already ?

crap I just realised something.. Its highly possible they will put FAQ's behind this paywall with this new model... that would be lunacy but its already lunacy what they are proposing.

I highly doubt they will restrict access to the FAQs. That would straight up murder any goodwill they have.

I think an earlier poster had the best take on it - GW is probably planning to make app verification of armies a requirement for participation in official tournaments. Given that the playtesters were all high-end competitive gamers, most of the tournament circuits will probably end up doing the same (just like everyone is switching to the new "minimum" table size as a requirement).

So they'll get your money. Or you can go back to being a filthy casual.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What kind of design team makes something worse than their competitors who give something away for free and at the same time they charge excessively for it? They are literally wasting money developing it because no one will buy it.

In order to justify this cost the app would need to keep the game score and link with your mates app and update live based on game results...actually...WHY Doesn't it do that?

GW...if you want to hire me I will work for cheap...just give me models actually...

Battle scribe is not giving it away for free, you're paying for it via ads or a subscription. If GW decided to launch all services without a subscription, and paid for the app development/maintenance cost with third party ads you guys would gaking all over them, and I'd be right there with you. GW is a premium brand, that comes with a higher cost and higher consumer expectations. If they released a product that worked exactly like battle scribe, we'd all be aghast at such a bare bones and uneven offering. We would be saying things like; Why does this have ads, whats with this third party data source, why do I have to wait for updates, why are there so many nested menus, why isn't there any consistency between codexes.

This is a load of crap. Wyrd's Malifaux app has all the rules and cards for free and is pretty barebones in terms of GUI and everyone loves it. War Room was made in Unity and had fancy high res jpgs of cards and the like and everyone hated it because it was a buggy, sluggish mess that destroyed your battery.

This is a way for them to get back into the tournament system again and it’s reasonable to assume they have the resources now.

dadx6 wrote:
I think an earlier poster had the best take on it - GW is probably planning to make app verification of armies a requirement for participation in official tournaments. Given that the playtesters were all high-end competitive gamers, most of the tournament circuits will probably end up doing the same (just like everyone is switching to the new "minimum" table size as a requirement).

So they'll get your money. Or you can go back to being a filthy casual.

Mmm, this seems a little tin-foil'ish for me. You're trading a PR nightmare for gains that aren't even that much. How many people actually participate in "official tournaments"? You're talking about "verified purchases" for at absolute best a couple thousand people per year.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What kind of design team makes something worse than their competitors who give something away for free and at the same time they charge excessively for it? They are literally wasting money developing it because no one will buy it.

In order to justify this cost the app would need to keep the game score and link with your mates app and update live based on game results...actually...WHY Doesn't it do that?

GW...if you want to hire me I will work for cheap...just give me models actually...

Battle scribe is not giving it away for free, you're paying for it via ads or a subscription. If GW decided to launch all services without a subscription, and paid for the app development/maintenance cost with third party ads you guys would gaking all over them, and I'd be right there with you. GW is a premium brand, that comes with a higher cost and higher consumer expectations. If they released a product that worked exactly like battle scribe, we'd all be aghast at such a bare bones and uneven offering. We would be saying things like; Why does this have ads, whats with this third party data source, why do I have to wait for updates, why are there so many nested menus, why isn't there any consistency between codexes.

This is a load of crap. Wyrd's Malifaux app has all the rules and cards for free and is pretty barebones in terms of GUI and everyone loves it. War Room was made in Unity and had fancy high res jpgs of cards and the like and everyone hated it because it was a buggy, sluggish mess that destroyed your battery.

Web 2.0 nonsense matters a lot more to executives than it does to consumers. We just want an application that fething works...

 BlaxicanX wrote:

dadx6 wrote:
I think an earlier poster had the best take on it - GW is probably planning to make app verification of armies a requirement for participation in official tournaments. Given that the playtesters were all high-end competitive gamers, most of the tournament circuits will probably end up doing the same (just like everyone is switching to the new "minimum" table size as a requirement).

So they'll get your money. Or you can go back to being a filthy casual.

Mmm, this seems a little tin-foil'ish for me. You're trading a PR nightmare for gains that aren't even that much. How many people actually participate in "official tournaments"? You're talking about "verified purchases" for at absolute best a couple thousand people per year.

I don't think it is a goal of GW, but if GW offers a verified army list app it means tournament organizers can mandate a list from the app and lift the burden of checking hundreds of lists for accuracy.

If the ability to make an army list was free, I could absolutely see tournament organizers mandating its use with no pressure on GW's part - it's way easier from the TO's perspective.

They might do it anyways with the paywall but they've gotta worry about optics too.

That's definitely something I can see happening and in fact it's honestly pretty likely. I also wouldn't have much of a problem with it so long as it's coming from the tournament side. Tournaments have a right to have whatever entry prerequisites they want.

I'm so confused as to how GW can make an inferior version of something they already have (the AoS app), but then again 8th edition was just an inferior AoS so eh.

 UncleJetMints wrote:
I'm so confused as to how GW can make an inferior version of something they already have (the AoS app), but then again 8th edition was just an inferior AoS so eh.

AoS Army Builder is rudimentary. The 40K version has to be magnitudes more complex.

Not going to lie, thus far I have been singularly unimpressed with what the App offers. Having to still buy $50 individual army codex books, no army builder at launch, and no PC compatibility to boot?

Hard pass.

Someone should be professionally embarrassed that the cornerstone functionality (army building), that would be the #1 reason people get the app for the new product, isn't ready to go.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

dadx6 wrote:
I think an earlier poster had the best take on it - GW is probably planning to make app verification of armies a requirement for participation in official tournaments. Given that the playtesters were all high-end competitive gamers, most of the tournament circuits will probably end up doing the same (just like everyone is switching to the new "minimum" table size as a requirement).

So they'll get your money. Or you can go back to being a filthy casual.

Mmm, this seems a little tin-foil'ish for me. You're trading a PR nightmare for gains that aren't even that much. How many people actually participate in "official tournaments"? You're talking about "verified purchases" for at absolute best a couple thousand people per year.

It's a great question. I don't know the answer, but how many users does that app have that tracks tournament players? The one with the pirate for a logo? I bet it's a lot more than "a couple thousand." Anyway, bear in mind that the official tournament participants were the play-testers for this edition. It seems to me that the tournament crowd has a lot of influence with GW right now.

 Argive wrote:

crap I just realised something.. Its highly possible they will put FAQ's behind this paywall with this new model... that would be lunacy but its already lunacy what they are proposing.

1) If that came to pass? I can easily see the groups I play with saying screw that & simply playing without FAQs etc.

2) You know SOMEONE would dedicate their time to copying that stuff & posting it all over the place.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Not going to lie, thus far I have been singularly unimpressed with what the App offers. Having to still buy $50 individual army codex books, no army builder at launch, and no PC compatibility to boot?

Hard pass.

Someone should be professionally embarrassed that the cornerstone functionality (army building), that would be the #1 reason people get the app for the new product, isn't ready to go.

I wouldn't be embarrassed that it isn't ready - software dev is hell sometimes. But I would be that they'll still charge for a feature that isn't available.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Argive wrote:

crap I just realised something.. Its highly possible they will put FAQ's behind this paywall with this new model... that would be lunacy but its already lunacy what they are proposing.

1) If that came to pass? I can easily see the groups I play with saying screw that & simply playing without FAQs etc.

2) You know SOMEONE would dedicate their time to copying that stuff & posting it all over the place.

That will literally never happen. They're giving you parts of the app for free, which are the parts that FAQs would fall under. Get a grip folks.

dadx6 wrote:
I think an earlier poster had the best take on it - GW is probably planning to make app verification of armies a requirement for participation in official tournaments. Given that the playtesters were all high-end competitive gamers, most of the tournament circuits will probably end up doing the same (just like everyone is switching to the new "minimum" table size as a requirement).

So they'll get your money. Or you can go back to being a filthy casual.

OK, I'm good with that.
I despise every game being concerned with being tourney focused. Especially games that aren't particularly well suited for that style of play - like nearly every GW game for ex.

dhallnet wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
This is one of the big things that were missing from 40k for me personally.
And if I go by memory something a lot of people mentioned last year during discussions.

Now it does not matter how many books you would need to play, because you can just search relevant information in the app and don't have to carry them with you.
I love that you get a code with your purchase to unlock the respective book in your account.

I'm not sure if the paid features are worth it for me to pay the subscription fee, but I will definitely pick up the free version.

Welcome to the 21st century, GW

You never considered switching to buying their PDFs instead of the physical books ?

They don't sell PDF's- I wish they did. They sell crappy epubs that don't display properly on computers. I bought bundles during lockdown to the tune of $78CAD, and every last dollar was wasted. I can't say whether they display properly on an EReader, but I'm not buying one. Their novels might also be okay, but if you want game books on a PC, don't waste your money.

Not keen on first glance either. The price point is too high for what is offered.

I would rather it was a one off fee, remove the free access content. Then a top up cost to unlock whatever codex you want.

I am also not keen on having to buy books to get codes for there books in the app. If that is how they doing it, Wonder if people will be throwing codes up on ebay.

PenitentJake wrote:
They don't sell PDF's- I wish they did. They sell crappy epubs that don't display properly on computers. I bought bundles during lockdown to the tune of $78CAD, and every last dollar was wasted. I can't say whether they display properly on an EReader, but I'm not buying one. Their novels might also be okay, but if you want game books on a PC, don't waste your money.

Basically my experience / opinion about digital codices. Not a fan of them, but I like the idea to get a digital version for free (albeit with DRM).
Maybe just maybe GW will do digital book sales for those who like to buy and collect codices from different races to read the stories and background in there. I used to do that in 3rd and 4th edition, when I could pick up a codex for around 20€.

I have bought the enhanced editions on Apple Books and they are pretty good, the points get updated over time but there aren’t more significant updates as far as I am aware.

Looks like the app isn’t running that popular so I winder if they will change it.

However, if the 3.99 a month gets you the army builder, is the army builder linked to the codexes you have bought or could I go in and build a hypothetical army and see the rules/stats in the same way as BattleScribe

So maybe you get enough data to build and play a new army but not all the stories etc that the codex provides

I will probably subscribe as I want to get Indomitus and start a necron army but one the codexes I use are out of date I will stop subscribing as all the value wil probably have gone for me

So far this looks really bad. So bad that I think I must be missing something.
In 8th edition I paid 97,50€ for books (2 Codizes + PA Spider).
So, to make me buy an App it would have to have a comparable price. However, they want me to pay 60€/ year, that's 180€ over the course of an edition. And THEN I have to buy the Codizes extra?
Just no.

Edit: And then the damn thing doesn't even work on PC but only on my phone? That's some premium level of crap right there.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Argive wrote:
If im going to get the rules for a codex I already bought. What am I getting for the subscription that not free already ?

crap I just realised something.. Its highly possible they will put FAQ's behind this paywall with this new model... that would be lunacy but its already lunacy what they are proposing.

I highly doubt they will restrict access to the FAQs. That would straight up murder any goodwill they have.

they already have CA which is paid for errata or patch update.