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 techsoldaten wrote:

Kitane wrote:Guardsmen 5 points
Grots 5 points.

That says everything about the balance update.

Cultists 6 points.

GW really does not want Chaos using Cultists.

When most people chose to do Cultists over Chaos Marines, it was inevitable.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Any leakes for Forge World? Did the hellforged super heavys go up again?

StrikingScorpion has a video with the new forgeworld pts but i havn't found a transcript yet, feel free to listen to the 45 min videos to see the prices, I'm also hoping some of the more egregiously expensive models get some well needed pts drop

a_typical_hero wrote:
Before the inevitable flood of "What where they thinking?! My unit X went up Y points, the faction is trash tier now and Warhammer is doomed anyway" comments, please keep in mind that it is not just your army or your unit.

Everybody is getting adjustments and we have to look at the whole picture.

Accept Custodes stayed the same, an already popular army with moderate success in competitive 8th, that's a hugely unfair advantage.

 peteralmo wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
Before the inevitable flood of "What where they thinking?! My unit X went up Y points, the faction is trash tier now and Warhammer is doomed anyway" comments, please keep in mind that it is not just your army or your unit.

Everybody is getting adjustments and we have to look at the whole picture.

Accept Custodes stayed the same, an already popular army with moderate success in competitive 8th, that's a hugely unfair advantage.

i was actually thinking about getting myself some custodes since the core rules of 9th help them so much already, with these new pts they just became the next army in my workflow

 Kanluwen wrote:
I mean, what else are you going to use Elite choices on right now?

Astropaths are still great. They were broken cost before, now they are just cheap. Bullgryn are still useful. With more expensive vehicles, Techpriests may bet worth considering, as the pt/wound increased.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Kitane wrote:
Guardsmen 5 points
Grots 5 points.

That says everything about the balance update.

In my limited experience grots are really good at holding objectives. As will any such chaff. IS require CC.

I think we may see some more platoon commanders too, as slots are more limited now. A brigade has only 5 HQ slots after all, you can't bring 3 CCs and 3 TCs any more without spending CP.

Might also make Vox Casters marginally more useful. I've never bothered with them in the past, since I might just as well invest the points in a couple more Commanders placed between squads instead.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Any leakes for Forge World? Did the hellforged super heavys go up again?

StrikingScorpion has a video with the new forgeworld pts but i havn't found a transcript yet, feel free to listen to the 45 min videos to see the prices, I'm also hoping some of the more egregiously expensive models get some well needed pts drop

45 minutes? Guess it'll have to wait until I get home tonight.

I don't know what the Infantry special weapons are about. 5pts for flamer/grenade/melta/plasma? It just makes the grenade launcher kind of useless. I can see metla getting some use, but its just going to be plasma all the time. I like the idea of flamers but they are so niche why would I not just take a plasma?

Well as others have said there is no point getting to up in arms until we play it out and see. Its just too many changes all at once to properly digest.

Still within the same codex some of the point costs look a little fishy.
Wraith blades with swords 50. With axes 40.
Wraith guard with flamers 48. With cannons 38.

I think the swords are easily the worst load out, and yet they are way more expensive.

 auticus wrote:
There will be a lot of justifiable anger and annoyance at the lack of balancing, as people line up like Groundhog Day hoping this will be the time when they will finally get it right. This time. After 30 years.

And when they see the game will still be as imbalanced and busted as ever... will still fork over the cash so that it can put the lotion on its skin. Or else it gets the nerf again.

Why are you still here?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Any leakes for Forge World? Did the hellforged super heavys go up again?

StrikingScorpion has a video with the new forgeworld pts but i havn't found a transcript yet, feel free to listen to the 45 min videos to see the prices, I'm also hoping some of the more egregiously expensive models get some well needed pts drop

45 minutes? Guess it'll have to wait until I get home tonight.

What do you want to know? I'll find it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:
I don't know what the Infantry special weapons are about. 5pts for flamer/grenade/melta/plasma? It just makes the grenade launcher kind of useless. I can see metla getting some use, but its just going to be plasma all the time. I like the idea of flamers but they are so niche why would I not just take a plasma?

5 points for BS4 melta? Crazy cheap.

Flamer if you don't want to kill your own guy and want to hurt softer units? It's not fabulous, I know.

Hahahaha, the Exalted Greater Daemons (the ones that are actually exalted, not the ones you spend a CP for a tiny bonus) are still at their meme points values.

Zarakynel at 666?

Very balanced, much wow, impressed.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Flamer if you don't want to kill your own guy and want to hurt softer units? It's not fabulous, I know.

I play Guard, killing my own men for a slight advantage is what I do! I have stopped using officer plasma in recent years though, as losing them is painful. Let the enlisted men take the risk.

Yeah, it's official. This is "feth you if you have a horde army" the edition.

My most competitive, smack you in the face, take on any challenger 2,000 point Thousand Sons list: Now 1900pts.

My super-casual, guaranteed you will win, absolutely just for funsies goofy all-grot stuff ork list: 2,650 points.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Do you play grots? I'd have never guessed from the last 50 posts you've made.

IG took a bit of a hit, but plasma and melta only being 5pts is crazy good. I'm not sure I can justify a flamer or grenade launcher now unless they get a boost somehow.

 Trickstick wrote:
I don't know what the Infantry special weapons are about. 5pts for flamer/grenade/melta/plasma? It just makes the grenade launcher kind of useless. I can see metla getting some use, but its just going to be plasma all the time. I like the idea of flamers but they are so niche why would I not just take a plasma?

Yeah, GW just gave up balancing anything cheap. Too hard. Gotta make more space marines stuff.

Harlequins

S4 Ap-3 D3 damage pistol with a special ability that makes it 1d vs vehicles: 5pts
S8 AP-4 Dd6 damage pistol with a special ability that is...it's melta, it does reroll damage if you're wihin half range: 5pts.

GSC

S4 AP- D1 18" range single shot - 5pts
S4 AP- D1 8" range d6 shots - 5pts

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's official. This is "feth you if you have a horde army" the edition.

My most competitive, smack you in the face, take on any challenger 2,000 point Thousand Sons list: Now 1900pts.

My super-casual, guaranteed you will win, absolutely just for funsies goofy all-grot stuff ork list: 2,650 points.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Exalteds down 20.

Grots are proper useful with the new morale. Using an edge case of an all grot army doesn't really tell us much.

And are those lists set up with the new detachments?

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's official. This is "feth you if you have a horde army" the edition.

My most competitive, smack you in the face, take on any challenger 2,000 point Thousand Sons list: Now 1900pts.

My super-casual, guaranteed you will win, absolutely just for funsies goofy all-grot stuff ork list: 2,650 points.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Was your competitive list made of only exalted sorcerers? As that's the only thing that went down (and they were terrible for the points, might see play now)

Here's what you all really want.

Assault Intercessors - 19
Eradicators - 40
Outriders - 45

So no surprise drops there.

Just taking a quick look Guard point changes, I'm somewhat shocked at how much they increased pricing on the Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolters & Twin Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Heavy Stubber, etc all went wayyyyyyyy up, most of which were not very good. Those took the biggest hits of just about anything in the army, and I'm not sure...why?

Meanwhile the Battlecannon got even...cheaper?

I'm hoping this means that some changes went into the Exterminator Battlecannon and Missile Launcher and the like to make them more attractive, but I'm more guessing this is GW being bad at things again.

Missile Launcher and Grenade Launcher went up likely in response to getting 'Blast' added to the Frag modes.
Exterminator Autocannons, Heavy Bolters+Twin Heavy Bolters, Heavy Stubber went up likely in response to being able to fire them while locked in CC.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Kitane wrote:

Aaranis wrote:Just for a point of comparison, my collection changed from 2658 to 3002 pts as AdMech, a 13% increase. How about your armies ?

My Black Legion gunline went from 1,995 to 1,800.

Well that's a nice boost you got there with that list !

deTox91 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it's official. This is "feth you if you have a horde army" the edition.

My most competitive, smack you in the face, take on any challenger 2,000 point Thousand Sons list: Now 1900pts.

My super-casual, guaranteed you will win, absolutely just for funsies goofy all-grot stuff ork list: 2,650 points.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Was your competitive list made of only exalted sorcerers? As that's the only thing that went down (and they were terrible for the points, might see play now)

Running it thru again, I missed adding in the one cultist squad - only went down 40 points.

point still fething stands, lol.

Don't worry, they fixed Necrons... The most game breaking model in the game... The Obelisk went up 40 points.

No, but It looks like Necrons got off pretty well here, though these are likely going to be relevant for about a month and a half.

Thousand Sons got off very good, I'm pretty happy.

lol nids.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Just taking a quick look Guard point changes, I'm somewhat shocked at how much they increased pricing on the Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolters & Twin Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Heavy Stubber, etc all went wayyyyyyyy up, most of which were not very good. Those took the biggest hits of just about anything in the army, and I'm not sure...why?

Meanwhile the Battlecannon got even...cheaper?

I'm hoping this means that some changes went into the Exterminator Battlecannon and Missile Launcher and the like to make them more attractive, but I'm more guessing this is GW being bad at things again.

Yeah, the points changes for IG weapons were surprising. It seems like the duds from before have just had increases, while what was competitive has been largely left alone.

The Battlecannon going down, and Demolisher cannon not changing is great, but why is the Vanquisher still 20? And why did the Exterminator go up?

Basilisks and Manticores have escaped without too much of a hit either.

Although IG as a whole went up 16% or so, it feels like a lot of the big increases were on things that weren't really used as it was.

Orks seem to have got off light. Boyz are 8. Weapons are mostly the same or down. Some vehicles/flyers up, but the weapons went to 0. TBs to 9, but rokkits to 10 - so a wash. Kanz, Nobs, Nobs on bikes, and bikes got hit the most aside from grots. Smasha got away with only up 2. SAG is up ~40.

 Sentineil wrote:

Yeah, the points changes for IG weapons were surprising. It seems like the duds from before have just had increases, while what was competitive has been largely left alone.

The Battlecannon going down, and Demolisher cannon not changing is great, but why is the Vanquisher still 20? And why did the Exterminator go up?

Basilisks and Manticores have escaped without too much of a hit either.

Although IG as a whole went up 16% or so, it feels like a lot of the big increases were on things that weren't really used as it was.

Part of this feels like stuff we would get answered whenever the FAQ drops. Biggest guess is Battle Cannon, Demolisher Cannon, Basilisk, Manticores, Wyverns, etc are going to get the "Blast" profiles. Same goes for Grenade and Missile Launchers with their Frag mode.

Vanquishers and Exterminators likely are not getting Blast...which means unlike the Battle, Demolisher, Basilisk, Manticore, and Wyvern cannons they can fire at what they are locked in CC with.

I'm trying to stick to "hm let's wait and see how it all shakes out" but some of these are, on initial inspection, completely mad. Sure, both Grots and Cultists have their uses, but to suggest they're on an equal footing with / 20% better than Guardsmen is nonsense.

Were I feeling cynical I might wonder if this is an exercise in building anticipation for the new Codices. In the meantime, the game's just going to be awash with even more Imperial armies. Yawn.

You know, I was just thinking the other day "boy, I really want to see yet more Space Marines in 9th, there aren't enough of those around". And thanks to this, we will! In fact, first impressions are that SM, Custodes and Guard have absolutely made out like bandits. I'm willing to wait and see but this stuff looks like they've done xenos real dirty.

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I was just thinking the other day "boy, I really want to see yet more Space Marines in 9th, there aren't enough of those around". And thanks to this, we will! In fact, first impressions are that SM, Custodes and Guard have absolutely made out like bandits. I'm willing to wait and see but this stuff looks like they've done xenos real dirty.

Atleast those armies still exist.