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 Sasori wrote:
Don't worry, they fixed Necrons... The most game breaking model in the game... The Obelisk went up 40 points.

No, but It looks like Necrons got off pretty well here, though these are likely going to be relevant for about a month and a half.

Thousand Sons got off very good, I'm pretty happy.

lol nids.

I feel like the obelisk is a meme joke at this point and increasing it adding to the comedy. It must be a joke because no human who plays this game could think the unit the community voted worst unit in the game could deserve to go UP in points.

 Trickstick wrote:
I don't know what the Infantry special weapons are about. 5pts for flamer/grenade/melta/plasma? It just makes the grenade launcher kind of useless. I can see metla getting some use, but its just going to be plasma all the time. I like the idea of flamers but they are so niche why would I not just take a plasma?

Sorry wtf? Plasma guns are only 5 points?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sentineil wrote:

Yeah, the points changes for IG weapons were surprising. It seems like the duds from before have just had increases, while what was competitive has been largely left alone.

The Battlecannon going down, and Demolisher cannon not changing is great, but why is the Vanquisher still 20? And why did the Exterminator go up?

Basilisks and Manticores have escaped without too much of a hit either.

Although IG as a whole went up 16% or so, it feels like a lot of the big increases were on things that weren't really used as it was.

Part of this feels like stuff we would get answered whenever the FAQ drops. Biggest guess is Battle Cannon, Demolisher Cannon, Basilisk, Manticores, Wyverns, etc are going to get the "Blast" profiles. Same goes for Grenade and Missile Launchers with their Frag mode.

Vanquishers and Exterminators likely are not getting Blast...which means unlike the Battle, Demolisher, Basilisk, Manticore, and Wyvern cannons they can't fire at what they are locked in CC with.

I think in that last sentence it should be a can, Kan, not a can't.

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm trying to stick to "hm let's wait and see how it all shakes out" but some of these are, on initial inspection, completely mad. Sure, both Grots and Cultists have their uses, but to suggest they're on an equal footing with / 20% better than Guardsmen is nonsense.

Were I feeling cynical I might wonder if this is an exercise in building anticipation for the new Codices. In the meantime, the game's just going to be awash with even more Imperial armies. Yawn.

Think about detachments. You need to boost IS with CC. CC take HQ slots. It isn't easy to fit 3 CC without murdering your HQs. So now you're going platoon and getting fewer orders. There's more to consider than what is in front of your face.


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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Any leakes for Forge World? Did the hellforged super heavys go up again?

Fellblade down to 690

Fireball punishers could make fun screening tanks. The flamer=bolter cost on tanks is going to take some getting used to.

Honestly, the last piece of the puzzle are the FAQs. Will be interesting to see what they do with things like Tallarn traits. Makes it hard to kit out russes if you are not sure which regiment to pick.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm trying to stick to "hm let's wait and see how it all shakes out" but some of these are, on initial inspection, completely mad. Sure, both Grots and Cultists have their uses, but to suggest they're on an equal footing with / 20% better than Guardsmen is nonsense.

Were I feeling cynical I might wonder if this is an exercise in building anticipation for the new Codices. In the meantime, the game's just going to be awash with even more Imperial armies. Yawn.

Think about detachments. You need to boost IS with CC. CC take HQ slots. It isn't easy to fit 3 CC without murdering your HQs. So now you're going platoon and getting fewer orders. There's more to consider than what is in front of your face.

And you also pay points for the CC. Even if you don't do that, they're *still* better than Grots or Cultists.

 Dysartes wrote:

I think in that last sentence it should be a can, Kan, not a can't.

Kan can't remember which can or can't Kan can or can't use this morning.

 Nazrak wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm trying to stick to "hm let's wait and see how it all shakes out" but some of these are, on initial inspection, completely mad. Sure, both Grots and Cultists have their uses, but to suggest they're on an equal footing with / 20% better than Guardsmen is nonsense.

Were I feeling cynical I might wonder if this is an exercise in building anticipation for the new Codices. In the meantime, the game's just going to be awash with even more Imperial armies. Yawn.

Think about detachments. You need to boost IS with CC. CC take HQ slots. It isn't easy to fit 3 CC without murdering your HQs. So now you're going platoon and getting fewer orders. There's more to consider than what is in front of your face.

And you also pay points for the CC. Even if you don't do that, they're *still* better than Grots or Cultists.

Yes, because your examples given are cannon fodder units.

You might not want to hear that, but it's the truth. It's why I keep advocating for trash tier Conscripts to be made and Guard Infantry Squads to be bumped up on par with Skitarii/Fire Warriors/Scions.

Until we get a rework of the Guard book? This nonsense is going to be the case.

 buddha wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Don't worry, they fixed Necrons... The most game breaking model in the game... The Obelisk went up 40 points.

No, but It looks like Necrons got off pretty well here, though these are likely going to be relevant for about a month and a half.

Thousand Sons got off very good, I'm pretty happy.

lol nids.

I feel like the obelisk is a meme joke at this point and increasing it adding to the comedy. It must be a joke because no human who plays this game could think the unit the community voted worst unit in the game could deserve to go UP in pints.

I thought the Pyrovore was the worst unit in the game. Or am I thinking out of date here?

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I was just thinking the other day "boy, I really want to see yet more Space Marines in 9th, there aren't enough of those around". And thanks to this, we will! In fact, first impressions are that SM, Custodes and Guard have absolutely made out like bandits. I'm willing to wait and see but this stuff looks like they've done xenos real dirty.

Guard did pretty mediocre, honestly. I kind of agree with Goonhammer that it seems to be split basically into 4 categories: Big Winners, Kinda Winners, So-So, and Losers. If you're so-so and above you're probably fine. RIP nids and GSC.

 Nazrak wrote:

And you also pay points for the CC. Even if you don't do that, they're *still* better than Grots or Cultists.

And will only ever come in blocks of 10. Cultists can get stronger force multipliers. Grots can be shields.

And I'm not saying it is the right price, but as stated before - there's a lot more to consider


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

Fellblade down to 690

Weapons unchanged so a 60 point buff in total.

What did they do to my Noise Marines! Why did they increase by 3 per model, why did sonic blasters go up, why did the Doom Siren go up too?

Did someone on the team genuinely fear the noise marine of all things?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

I think in that last sentence it should be a can, Kan, not a can't.

Kan can't remember which can or can't Kan can or can't use this morning.

The important question being raised by a certain Chaos God, of course, is can Kan cancan?

 Dysartes wrote:

The important question being raised by a certain Chaos God, of course, is can Kan cancan?

Kan can no longer cancan.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
What did they do to my Noise Marines! Why did they increase by 3 per model, why did sonic blasters go up, why did the Doom Siren go up too?

Did someone on the team genuinely fear the noise marine of all things?

A lot of stuff simply went up, which gives them more room to adjust points in relation to other units.

Looking over more of the changes from other factions, increasingly this looks to be pretty classic GW, lots of nonsensical changes, and mostly just seems to be reverting to something more akin to earlier 8th before they lowered all the prices so much. Basically they rewound the clock to 2017, rejiggered the spreads a bit to account for some rules changes (but not consistently or clearly), and called it good. Thus far, I'm singularly unimpressed.

ERJAK wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
You know, I was just thinking the other day "boy, I really want to see yet more Space Marines in 9th, there aren't enough of those around". And thanks to this, we will! In fact, first impressions are that SM, Custodes and Guard have absolutely made out like bandits. I'm willing to wait and see but this stuff looks like they've done xenos real dirty.

Guard did pretty mediocre, honestly. I kind of agree with Goonhammer that it seems to be split basically into 4 categories: Big Winners, Kinda Winners, So-So, and Losers. If you're so-so and above you're probably fine. RIP nids and GSC.

I'm reading through that article at the moment.
I largely agree with them... except about Craftworld eldar. They make a big deal about twin shuriken catapults, waves serpents and for some reason falcons being good things, but that doesn't balance out the absolute stomping that the core troops and other signature units got.

Except for clowns, eldar (craft and dark) got splatted by this update.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
What did they do to my Noise Marines! Why did they increase by 3 per model, why did sonic blasters go up, why did the Doom Siren go up too?

Did someone on the team genuinely fear the noise marine of all things?

A lot of stuff simply went up, which gives them more room to adjust points in relation to other units.

Yeah I'm not buying that of all things the Noise Marines somehow needed to jump up to 2 less points then a Plague Marine while their gear gets even more costly at the same time. Noise Marines of all things did not need this, not many people took them before.

ERJAK wrote:
Guard did pretty mediocre, honestly. I kind of agree with Goonhammer that it seems to be split basically into 4 categories: Big Winners, Kinda Winners, So-So, and Losers. If you're so-so and above you're probably fine. RIP nids and GSC.

In terms of point increases, sure. In terms of rules benefits, I think they're in a fantastic position, especially with the vehicle change and extremely weird special weapons costs. I'd be as bold as to say that they'll be one of the top tier armies for a while; not quite SM busted, but viable in tournaments because of how well they can play the new misisons.

Mortis +10
Leviathan +45
Stormcannon Array unchanged

Chaplain Dread was not mentioned or I missed it. Sounds like Ashmantle and a bunch of other stuff is gone.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

And you also pay points for the CC. Even if you don't do that, they're *still* better than Grots or Cultists.

And will only ever come in blocks of 10. Cultists can get stronger force multipliers. Grots can be shields.

And I'm not saying it is the right price, but as stated before - there's a lot more to consider

This is one of those things that people seem to constantly ignore and was a big sticking point during the Great FRFSRF Wars of the past few years.

A Guard Infantry Squad is 10 models.
It cannot add more models except by utilizing the Combined Squads Stratagem.
It does not start with 10 models utilizing Lasguns. The Sergeant always has just the Laspistol and Frag Grenades.
If you take a Special Weapon? That's a Lasgun down when FRFSRF comes up.
If you take a Heavy Weapons Team? That's another Lasgun down.

Not to mention that Scions can't receive Orders from a <Regiment> Officer, so if you take Scions you needed to take a Prime unless you weren't going to issue them Orders.

Phew, the world was spared the scourge of my super-competitive "3 squads of storm guardians+Avatar of Khaine+one squad of each type of aspect warriors on foot" list.

Up to 2,350 points. XD GJ GW! A dire avenger now = a chaos space marine. Yep, those models sure are the same level of usefulness.

the_scotsman wrote:
Phew, the world was spared the scourge of my super-competitive "3 squads of storm guardians+Avatar of Khaine+one squad of each type of aspect warriors on foot" list.

Up to 2,350 points. XD GJ GW! A dire avenger now = a chaos space marine. Yep, those models sure are the same level of usefulness.

But... but.... different stratagems and rules! Different interactions!

On the plus side, I have quite a few more points worth of Drukhari now that I didn't have to pay a penny for. Thanks GW

Martel732 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Phew, the world was spared the scourge of my super-competitive "3 squads of storm guardians+Avatar of Khaine+one squad of each type of aspect warriors on foot" list.

Up to 2,350 points. XD GJ GW! A dire avenger now = a chaos space marine. Yep, those models sure are the same level of usefulness.

But... but.... different stratagems and rules! Different interactions!

The thing I think amuses me most is the nerf to both howling banshees and incubi. It feels like GW is a petulant child pouting at us because we didn't buy enough Blood of the Pheonix boxes.


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 harlokin wrote:
On the plus side, I have quite a few more points worth of Drukhari now that I didn't have to pay a penny for. Thanks GW

yeah, my whole collection of drukhari went up almost 1,000 points.

....I have a lot of kabalite and wych models. And Hellions and scourges. i went kind of bonkers on that 35$ for 4 40$ kits Gangs of Comorragh box.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Mortis +10
Leviathan +45
Stormcannon Array unchanged

Chaplain Dread was not mentioned or I missed it. Sounds like Ashmantle and a bunch of other stuff is gone.

Chaplain Dread got booted to Legends, apparently.

the_scotsman wrote:
Phew, the world was spared the scourge of my super-competitive "3 squads of storm guardians+Avatar of Khaine+one squad of each type of aspect warriors on foot" list.

Up to 2,350 points. XD GJ GW! A dire avenger now = a chaos space marine. Yep, those models sure are the same level of usefulness.

Have ypu tried compairing Firedragons at their 8th edition pojnts to the Indomitaous spacemarines, that should be LoL worthy.


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Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Mortis +10
Leviathan +45
Stormcannon Array unchanged

Chaplain Dread was not mentioned or I missed it. Sounds like Ashmantle and a bunch of other stuff is gone.

Chaplain Dread got booted to Legends, apparently.

One small mercy Baranth As mantle was in thr SS82 video it's in the charictor section not the dreadnaughts like you might expect.

Yeah really going to miss Chaplain dreadnaughts behind ironhands father of the future intercessor blocking.

the_scotsman wrote:
The thing I think amuses me most is the nerf to both howling banshees and incubi. It feels like GW is a petulant child pouting at us because we didn't buy enough Blood of the Pheonix boxes.

That would certainly go some way to explaining the costing of Eldar and DE troop choices.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Looking over more of the changes from other factions, increasingly this looks to be pretty classic GW, lots of nonsensical changes, and mostly just seems to be reverting to something more akin to earlier 8th before they lowered all the prices so much. Basically they rewound the clock to 2017, rejiggered the spreads a bit to account for some rules changes (but not consistently or clearly), and called it good. Thus far, I'm singularly unimpressed.

This is where I'm at, too.

Rulewise, I'm thoroughly unimpressed by what I've seen thus far regarding 9th edition.

It seems that the vast majority of problems with 8th's ruleset were simply ported over wholesale, and even the few problems that were addressed were just the usual 'one step forward, another step backwards and to the side'. All the clumsy holeovers from past editions are still with us, hence why there's no such thing as an 'ordinary' weapon and why 'Heavy', 'Assault' etc. haven't been made into actual keywords.

And now we have the joy of point changes using GW's favourite method - a dart board.

All in all, 9th edition looks more like a glorified errata than a new ruleset.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
There are multiple sources at this point. Goonhammer has put up an article as well although I don't know if he has the explicit point costs listed.

Nope. They got a preview copy to do analysis about (which leans negative, to be honest), but they aren't going to screw up their relationship with GW by posting points.

Vaktathi wrote:Looking over more of the changes from other factions, increasingly this looks to be pretty classic GW, lots of nonsensical changes, and mostly just seems to be reverting to something more akin to earlier 8th before they lowered all the prices so much. Basically they rewound the clock to 2017, rejiggered the spreads a bit to account for some rules changes (but not consistently or clearly), and called it good. Thus far, I'm singularly unimpressed.

My take: the people doing the mechanics and the points are not talking to one another.

Case in point: Raptors are 18ppm. CSM are 14ppm. 4 points more for 6" extra movement on a basic melee unit.

That's not nonsense, the points say movement is about 25% more important this edition.

But I don't think the charge mechanics favor these kinds of units.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Looking over more of the changes from other factions, increasingly this looks to be pretty classic GW, lots of nonsensical changes, and mostly just seems to be reverting to something more akin to earlier 8th before they lowered all the prices so much. Basically they rewound the clock to 2017, rejiggered the spreads a bit to account for some rules changes (but not consistently or clearly), and called it good. Thus far, I'm singularly unimpressed.

My take: the people doing the mechanics and the points are not talking to one another.

Case in point: Raptors are 18ppm. CSM are 14ppm. 4 points more for 6" extra movement on a basic melee unit.

That's not nonsense, the points say movement is about 25% more important this edition.

But I don't think the charge mechanics favor these kinds of units.

4 points for trading a boltgun for a chainsword in addition to the movement.

I played raptors for the first time yesterday in my night lords, they spent 3 turns tickling a squad of regular csm, the game ended and they were still fighting, absolutely terrible