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+2 Str on the Axe. So I expect Mauls are now +3

The chainsword look to be an Astrates Chainsword, so those who were worried that they'd be a Primaris-only thing don't need to worry.

Thunderhammers aren't damage 4 atm, right? So that's another buff.

Strange that the Plasma Pistol doesn't have an Overcharge profile ... they showed both profiles for the Missile Launchers on Terminators ... I wonder if the pistol version is losing Overcharge?

Umbros wrote:

Sure does look like they are killing off firstborn marines

Or reaching the point where they can say "this is a marine with this profile and we don't care which model you use" and then stop selling old marines.

 Khorzain wrote:
Strange that the Plasma Pistol doesn't have an Overcharge profile ... they showed both profiles for the Missile Launchers on Terminators ... I wonder if the pistol version is losing Overcharge?

I put it down to the condensed statlines. Maybe "gets hot" gets changed to "+1S, +1D" or something like that to genercize it.

Scot, that's sounding suspiciously like one of them filthy universal rules, everyone knows only commies or socialists like them an - you... You're not a commie or socialist... are you?

Umbros wrote:

Sure does look like they are killing off firstborn marines

Poor poor Firstborns. They'll never be meta again!

Of course, we probably should wait and see how the costs fall for these, but yeah - they don't look dead to me.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Scot, that's sounding suspiciously like one of them filthy universal rules, everyone knows only commies or socialists like them an - you... You're not a commie or socialist... are you?

It isn't a universal rule if you make it a special bespoke rule that just happens to be the same on all the datasheets but everybody has to wait to get theirs until their codex launches and then you might forget to change a couple of them to it here and there but that's not a big deal or confusing it's fine.

Umbros wrote:

Sure does look like they are killing off firstborn marines

Perhaps not. They’ll still be behind, though. We haven’t seen non-Veteran marine stats yet. Primaris Bladeguard are three wounds, yes? Terminators and V Vets here have gained wounds while Assault Intercessors are still two wounds. It looks like marine Veterans are gaining an additional wound while non-veterans are staying the same. I hope the supposed Veteran Intercessor unit follows suit as well as Deathwatch Veterans.

What's the option 4 sword?

Nibbler wrote:
What's the option 4 sword?

Relic Blade?

Nibbler wrote:
What's the option 4 sword?

Relic blade I think.

Whelp, hopefully everybody has a marine army ready. Or at least a different game they can switch to for a year or so.

Cause unless there are some pretty massive rules/points nerfs on the way...it's gonna be bad for a while.

Dudeface wrote:

Nibbler wrote:
What's the option 4 sword?

Relic blade I think.

Correct!

ERJAK wrote:
Whelp, hopefully everybody has a marine army ready. Or at least a different game they can switch to for a year or so.

Cause unless there are some pretty massive rules/points nerfs on the way...it's gonna be bad for a while.

Don't forget Necrons are coming out too. So there's potential for there to be a Xenos counter to Marines.
Necrons were on par with Marines in 7th, so there's hope.
Also many of these changes SHOULD be errata'd to apply to Chaos Marines too, since so many of them are 1:1 exactly the same unit/weapon.

-

 Galef wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Whelp, hopefully everybody has a marine army ready. Or at least a different game they can switch to for a year or so.

Cause unless there are some pretty massive rules/points nerfs on the way...it's gonna be bad for a while.

Don't forget Necrons are coming out too. So there's potential for there to be a Xenos counter to Marines.
Necrons were on par with Marines in 7th, so there's hope.
Also many of these changes SHOULD be errata'd to apply to Chaos Marines too, since so many of them are 1:1 exactly the same unit/weapon.

-

Given GW's promotional video regarding the release, and the new statlines we've seen with a mix of small buffs and small nerfs, I'm not holding my breath that Necrons will be anything more than designated punching bags in their new book, lol.

the_scotsman wrote:
Given GW's promotional video regarding the release, and the new statlines we've seen with a mix of small buffs and small nerfs, I'm not holding my breath that Necrons will be anything more than designated punching bags in their new book, lol.

Every PC needs and NPC or two to beat up.

Quote from Armillion over on B&C "Also, opened one of the new box style vindicators last week and saw that HK missiles are apparently S10 now?"

Guess I lost that bet on Power Swords/Axes/Mauls/Claws all getting rolled into a single profile.

It looks to me that GW is trying to make a distinct difference between power of a Space Marine compared to other races.

SMs are basically becoming an army of multi wound models.
I think they are trying to make it so small arms fire is not good against them but multi damage weapons are.
But those multi damage weapons will be bad against a lot of other armies with a lot of single wound models.

|I think they are trying to make it so high rate of fire vs high damage will be a proper choice in future.

Will it work out? Who knows, but it looks like that is the direction to me

Dudeface wrote:
Quote from Armillion over on B&C "Also, opened one of the new box style vindicators last week and saw that HK missiles are apparently S10 now?"

Once upon a time HK Missiles were actually special. They were a vehicle card (vehicle upgrades were done with cards similar to Wargear Cards in 2nd Edition 40K), and the HK missile was basically a one-shot Krak missile that was just overall more dangerous than your run-of-the-mill missile launcher.

So them going to S10 to make them special one-shot weapons again seems like a good idea to me.

H-K Missiles aren't S10, right?

They are now. They're S8 in the 'current' codex.

So, not seeing any other changes to the Vindicator. So, does not seem vehicles are seeing the "universal vehicle wounds increase to account for the higher damage weaponry"

You go from needing 7 BS3+ multimeltas to kill a vindicator on average rolling, to 3.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, not seeing any other changes to the Vindicator. So, does not seem vehicles are seeing the "universal vehicle wounds increase to account for the higher damage weaponry"

You go from needing 7 BS3+ multimeltas to kill a vindicator on average rolling, to 3.

Nobody was using mltimelta outside sisters though so I don't mind that if pointed appropriately. Need 3 wounds to get through from inside 12", 6 hits, 9 shots so either 5 multimelta or 10 melta guns.

Edit: I'm an idiot it's 2 wounds, average damage being 3.5+2, total of 11

Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.

And Monoliths and Land Raider and Morkanauts and ...

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So, not seeing any other changes to the Vindicator. So, does not seem vehicles are seeing the "universal vehicle wounds increase to account for the higher damage weaponry"

You go from needing 7 BS3+ multimeltas to kill a vindicator on average rolling, to 3.

Nobody was using mltimelta outside sisters though so I don't mind that if pointed appropriately. Need 3 wounds to get through from inside 12", 6 hits, 9 shots so either 5 multimelta or 10 melta guns.

No, not 5. 3. With average rolling, you need to shoot 3 multimeltas from melta range to destroy the vindicator.

They nearly tripled the firepower of a multimelta with the new rules.

the_scotsman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So, not seeing any other changes to the Vindicator. So, does not seem vehicles are seeing the "universal vehicle wounds increase to account for the higher damage weaponry"

You go from needing 7 BS3+ multimeltas to kill a vindicator on average rolling, to 3.

Nobody was using mltimelta outside sisters though so I don't mind that if pointed appropriately. Need 3 wounds to get through from inside 12", 6 hits, 9 shots so either 5 multimelta or 10 melta guns.

No, not 5. 3. With average rolling, you need to shoot 3 multimeltas from melta range to destroy the vindicator.

They nearly tripled the firepower of a multimelta with the new rules.

Yup caught it in my edit my bad.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.

Outriders / Eradicators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:


No, not 5. 3. With average rolling, you need to shoot 3 multimeltas from melta range to destroy the vindicator.

They nearly tripled the firepower of a multimelta with the new rules.

Well, don't let 255 points of ATVs get w/i 12" of your 135 point Vindicator.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.

A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex