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2020/08/12 16:36:16
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Dudeface wrote: Quote from Armillion over on B&C "Also, opened one of the new box style vindicators last week and saw that HK missiles are apparently S10 now?"
That'd be a welcome move for a one shot AT missile.
All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
2020/08/12 16:43:03
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
That's definitely true. I really liked the way 3rd, 6th, and 8th did it where it was pretty much all up front. What's happening here is bizarre. I'm hoping it's not just a move to get us to use the app (that doesn't even launch for me).
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
The schedule is completely out of whack because of COVID. They'd normally have the launch codexes for sale by now.
2020/08/12 17:18:27
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex
I mean if you wanna waste a one shot weapon on a Blightlord sure go right for it?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/08/12 17:26:40
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
The schedule is completely out of whack because of COVID. They'd normally have the launch codexes for sale by now.
This makes little sense. If they were able to produce the new rules packets inside the new boxes, why weren't they able to produce the codexes? And if that really was the case, shouldn't they have, well, put a heads-up out about it, telling people why they were seeing new rules in their boxes that weren't yet reflected in the game? It's just such a weird, amateurish way to go about things.
More importantly, this would only even be an explanation if we assume that GW is going to only be updating the stats army by army as they get codexes, which would be mind-bogglingly stupid. If you're going to fundamentally change the stat balance of the game, why would you do that codex by codex when you just had a chance to do it all at once at the start of the edition? Are we seriously going to have a situation where space marines get an extra wound and better weapons but everyone else is still stuck with the old versions of the weapons and the old stats for months or years until they get a codex release?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/12 17:33:51
2020/08/12 17:45:58
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex
I mean if you wanna waste a one shot weapon on a Blightlord sure go right for it?
Or any of the T5 characters which are now being wounded on 2s (if you can target them of course but that is easier this edition)
Or the Deathshroud Terminators.
Or wounding Morty on 3s, or the plagueburst crawler.
2020/08/12 17:47:04
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
The schedule is completely out of whack because of COVID. They'd normally have the launch codexes for sale by now.
Which helps precisely 2 factions.
2020/08/12 17:48:03
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex
I mean if you wanna waste a one shot weapon on a Blightlord sure go right for it?
Or any of the T5 characters which are now being wounded on 2s (if you can target them of course but that is easier this edition)
Or the Deathshroud Terminators.
Or wounding Morty on 3s, or the plagueburst crawler.
Best thing is a 2+ within Lt range hits a 96% success rate, which is pretty excellent when you're talking about 1 shot weapons.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex
I mean if you wanna waste a one shot weapon on a Blightlord sure go right for it?
Or any of the T5 characters which are now being wounded on 2s (if you can target them of course but that is easier this edition)
Or the Deathshroud Terminators.
Or wounding Morty on 3s, or the plagueburst crawler.
Sure. It's a 1-shot missile. It's going to do sooo much damage. And it was wounding on 3's before anyway.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2020/08/12 17:50:02
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
The schedule is completely out of whack because of COVID. They'd normally have the launch codexes for sale by now.
This makes little sense. If they were able to produce the new rules packets inside the new boxes, why weren't they able to produce the codexes? And if that really was the case, shouldn't they have, well, put a heads-up out about it, telling people why they were seeing new rules in their boxes that weren't yet reflected in the game? It's just such a weird, amateurish way to go about things.
More importantly, this would only even be an explanation if we assume that GW is going to only be updating the stats army by army as they get codexes, which would be mind-bogglingly stupid. If you're going to fundamentally change the stat balance of the game, why would you do that codex by codex when you just had a chance to do it all at once at the start of the edition? Are we seriously going to have a situation where space marines get an extra wound and better weapons but everyone else is still stuck with the old versions of the weapons and the old stats for months or years until they get a codex release?
Codexes come from China. Tiny rules inserts likely print locally or they'd otherwise be waiting for China to pack product into boxes.
It doesn't matter as much in codex to codex as long as each successive codex takes the upgrades in stride. We're already facing mostly primaris. Adding "kind of primaris" with some extra options doesn't decisively change how we approach marines unless something is grossly undercosted.
Should everyone get weapon updates? Sure, but we'll have to see if they bother with that or not in October.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/12 17:51:09
2020/08/12 17:52:49
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
And yes, it absolutely would matter if they buffed space marines to 2W and gave them new, more deadly weapons without doing the same for everybody else at the same time, forcing other factions to wait months or years to be put on a equal footing.
2020/08/12 18:00:18
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
yukishiro1 wrote: All talk about whether it's a good idea to inflate stats or not aside, this is such a bizarre way to do it. Why didn't they do this all at the start of the new edition? What possible sense does it make to leak stat changes piecemeal through people opening up boxes and finding out what the new stats for the models are going to be months down the road?
The schedule is completely out of whack because of COVID. They'd normally have the launch codexes for sale by now.
This makes little sense. If they were able to produce the new rules packets inside the new boxes, why weren't they able to produce the codexes? And if that really was the case, shouldn't they have, well, put a heads-up out about it, telling people why they were seeing new rules in their boxes that weren't yet reflected in the game? It's just such a weird, amateurish way to go about things.
More importantly, this would only even be an explanation if we assume that GW is going to only be updating the stats army by army as they get codexes, which would be mind-bogglingly stupid. If you're going to fundamentally change the stat balance of the game, why would you do that codex by codex when you just had a chance to do it all at once at the start of the edition? Are we seriously going to have a situation where space marines get an extra wound and better weapons but everyone else is still stuck with the old versions of the weapons and the old stats for months or years until they get a codex release?
Codexes come from China. Tiny rules inserts likely print locally or they'd otherwise be waiting for China to pack product into boxes.
It doesn't matter as much in codex to codex as long as each successive codex takes the upgrades in stride. We're already facing mostly primaris. Adding "kind of primaris" with some extra options doesn't decisively change how we approach marines unless something is grossly undercosted.
Should everyone get weapon updates? Sure, but we'll have to see if they bother with that or not in October.
When, in the entire history of GW has each successive codex taken the upgrades in stride? The powerlevel is always essentially a D20 roll on release. The biggest difference is that right now we've got one army, that shares a lot of statlines and profiles with multiple other armies, coming out with those otherwise shared profiles wildly altered and on the whole, significantly improved. Add to that the fact that it's also the best army in the game currently, and it's not unreasonable to have...trepidations.
Imagine if they DIDN'T go back to the drawing board for 7th into 8th and the first codex to be released was craftworld eldar and the first rules leaks were Wraithknights going up 2 wounds and Jetbikes getting AP-3 on their scatterlasers and that's about what we're looking at right now.
2020/08/12 18:01:41
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
A hell of a lot of the Deathguard codex
I mean if you wanna waste a one shot weapon on a Blightlord sure go right for it?
Or any of the T5 characters which are now being wounded on 2s (if you can target them of course but that is easier this edition)
Or the Deathshroud Terminators.
Or wounding Morty on 3s, or the plagueburst crawler.
Sure. It's a 1-shot missile. It's going to do sooo much damage. And it was wounding on 3's before anyway.
It's true, the difference isn't huge. S10 improves my anti-Knight 10 Razorback build by about 3 wounds against a 4++ Knight. Buuut, failing to wound less will feel nice.
+3 W with Lt. reroll. +2 W with Oath reroll.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/12 18:06:08
Sure. It's a 1-shot missile. It's going to do sooo much damage. And it was wounding on 3's before anyway.
Brainfart on my part with morty. But the rest still stands.
The question wasn't about it being one shot, it was what was the point on increasing to S10.
He said there was next to nothing that it made a difference against from S8.
I was pointing out there are loads of DG units it makes a difference against.
Whether it is a big buff or not is another question.
2020/08/12 21:29:58
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Sure. It's a 1-shot missile. It's going to do sooo much damage. And it was wounding on 3's before anyway.
Brainfart on my part with morty. But the rest still stands.
The question wasn't about it being one shot, it was what was the point on increasing to S10.
He said there was next to nothing that it made a difference against from S8.
I was pointing out there are loads of DG units it makes a difference against.
Whether it is a big buff or not is another question.
Hm. Pretty sure there are T8 models in the game other than knights, and +1 to wound vs those sounds like a good thing for an anti tank missile.
2020/08/13 01:31:39
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
Outriders / Eradicators.
Well, it helps against T9, but they've pretty much priced everything with T9 out of the game. If they just wanted to make it better against T8 it would be fine at S9. Odd.
2020/08/13 01:54:55
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Not sure what the point of making them S10 is besides to just wound Knights slightly easier. There isn't exactly a lot of great T5 targets.
Outriders / Eradicators.
Well, it helps against T9, but they've pretty much priced everything with T9 out of the game. If they just wanted to make it better against T8 it would be fine at S9. Odd.
Argive wrote: Anyone wana sacrifice themselves and pick up some new logo xenos ? I sort of have everything already for me army.
people have picked up some necrons, and slight changes but nothing earth shattering.
One thing to keep in mind is a lot of the weapons changed are weapons shared across a number of factions.
Power weapons multimelta's etc.
one can hope that this will be a benifit two two things. 1: people who wanna use OLD marine units. (primaris haters should be happy with this) 2: the various other factions that share these weapons, guard, sisters of battle chaos space marines, and I think even GSCs (not seen their dex and no one locally plays them so can't say for sure on that last one)
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/08/13 04:37:17
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
30" range bolters but still basically every special weapon is based around a 12" range band...I have to question what that actually solves for marines.
Still looking like 2w base, but they're all still "veterans" so we don't know for sure about whether the extra wound is "veterancy" or just, a thing they get.
...Is that less attacks for a captain? Why does my brain think they have A5 base now?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/13 13:28:46
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
30" range bolters but still basically every special weapon is based around a 12" range band...I have to question what that actually solves for marines.
Still looking like 2w base, but they're all still "veterans" so we don't know for sure about whether the extra wound is "veterancy" or just, a thing they get.
...Is that less attacks for a captain? Why does my brain think they have A5 base now?
It sort of feels like we're slowly moving into "this is a unit and you use whatever space marine models you like but we're not selling classic marines"
2020/08/13 13:32:13
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Still looking like 2w base, but they're all still "veterans" so we don't know for sure about whether the extra wound is "veterancy" or just, a thing they get.
...Is that less attacks for a captain? Why does my brain think they have A5 base now?
Well, all the characters have the same wounds as they do now. If a Firstborn Captain has 1W less than a Primaris Captain (and a Vanguard Veteran has 1W less than a Bladeguard Veteran), it seems quite logical that a Tactical Marine has 1W less than an Intercessor. It all points in the direction of just Veterans and Terminators getting an extra wound.
2020/08/13 13:41:38
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
On those veterans - what's weapon 4? I might just be dense, but I can't make it out. Stat line looks like a bolt pistol, but that's clearly number 6. Why would you have two?
2020/08/13 13:43:23
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Tyel wrote: On those veterans - what's weapon 4? I might just be dense, but I can't make it out. Stat line looks like a bolt pistol, but that's clearly number 6. Why would you have two?
Looks like a pistol under a shield to me. Is that at thing? is there like a storm shield/bolt pistol combo?
Also, interestingly, storm bolters (terminator datasheet) appear to be 24" range still.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/13 13:44:20
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Tyel wrote: On those veterans - what's weapon 4? I might just be dense, but I can't make it out. Stat line looks like a bolt pistol, but that's clearly number 6. Why would you have two?
Looks like a pistol under a shield to me. Is that at thing? is there like a storm shield/bolt pistol combo?
Also, interestingly, storm bolters (terminator datasheet) appear to be 24" range still.
Combat shields, they're 5++ and bolt pistol combo
2020/08/13 13:49:05
Subject: New Unit Changes Found in 9th Edition Boxes (latest: Vanguard Veteran Squad)
Tyel wrote: On those veterans - what's weapon 4? I might just be dense, but I can't make it out. Stat line looks like a bolt pistol, but that's clearly number 6. Why would you have two?
Looks like a pistol under a shield to me. Is that at thing? is there like a storm shield/bolt pistol combo?
Also, interestingly, storm bolters (terminator datasheet) appear to be 24" range still.
Combat shields, they're 5++ and bolt pistol combo
OK, so two more questions then
1) Do the veterans that come in the command squad box get some kind of special-snowflake boltgun currently?
2) does the captain, basic captain, currently have A4?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I sort of have everything already for me army.
Eldar- 4436 pts
