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Gibblets wrote: I'm convinced one of the best regiments for 9th is Valhallan. Their order is great, fire into a combat hitting friendlies on 1s. Artifact lets you use conscripts and the strat lets you bring them back onto a home objective later. The WL trait is a defensive buff, never bad (use Tank Ace ability instead). Finally, the regimental trait is solid, 1/2 the models flee from morale and vehicles double #'s of wounds for dmg table stats.
Lastly I have a question I need sorted, can a hull mounted Heavy Flamer fire in combat like a Heavy Bolter can?
FWIW the trait is actually non-functional in 9th. Attrition losses aren't prevented by it, you only get to halve the single loss to a morale test failure, which is useless.
Gibblets wrote: I'm convinced one of the best regiments for 9th is Valhallan. Their order is great, fire into a combat hitting friendlies on 1s. Artifact lets you use conscripts and the strat lets you bring them back onto a home objective later. The WL trait is a defensive buff, never bad (use Tank Ace ability instead). Finally, the regimental trait is solid, 1/2 the models flee from morale and vehicles double #'s of wounds for dmg table stats.
Lastly I have a question I need sorted, can a hull mounted Heavy Flamer fire in combat like a Heavy Bolter can?
TL;DR
If you are in an insanely aggressive turn 1 charge meta, Valhallans are your huckleberry. They will infuriate people because you are essentially ignoring a lot of the weaknesses people count on exploiting to defeat IG. If you are in a shooting or more defensive meta, aka lots of Tau gunlines, other IG, eldar, etc. Valhallans are not very good as their abilities rely on defense and if you're on the defense against these armies it doesn't go well. These metas want Cadians or Catachans because when you get the chance to shoot something you need to shoot it as hard as possible.
*Infantry trait is terrible because morale is a joke
*Tank trait is good in some situations, bad in others, I'd rather have offensive buff usually. It is somewhat offset with new blast rules
*order is excellent, main reason to run them
*The strategem is completely useless. It's not even getting a long explanation, it doesn't function in competitive play. The unit needs to die and that means you have to save reinforcement points for it. If you want reserves (which is what the Valhallans strat essentially does) just bring the unit and stick it in actual reserves for less CP *If heavy flamer has blast, far as I understand no it can't fire in combat. If it doesn't have blast, then yes.
Long version
As a guy who played Valhallans quite a bit in 8th, theyre really not helped by 9th, if anything their trait is less useful. Not quite as pointless as the tallarn trait feels in 9th sometimes, but it's close.
Morale is a joke this edition, and that's an accomplishment considering 8th was pretty pointless itself. Conscripts can survive battleshock with only a few casualties that would've wiped then out entirely last edition with 0 support. Even if they're running on 1's and 2's, you're only losing about a 1/3 of the unit to morale at any given time. Having that halfed isn't completely useless, but often you'll only save 1-2 guardsmen with it. Simply put, any ability affecting morale is pointless for IG. Ironically it can scare more elite units the most, since if you can force a morale check on a marines unit and they're unluckly they could lose 2-3 marines where they only lost one before, but it's extremely rare. The relic pistol, formerly excellent for conscripts, is now pretty pointless.
Their tank trait is useful, but I don't think it's enough to outshine Cadians, Catachans, custom regiments, and maybe Vostroyans. The tank ability only works when you're taking hits. Turn 1 if you get the initial volley you're stuck with stock tanks which means you're going to have to weather more return fire when the opponent shoots back. It's a fun trait, and gives you some real staying power, but I still believe the competitive choice is getting your damage in first, not trying to stick around when the opponent swings back. But you can definitely make it work, you just need to build around it. A Valhallan tank company with a mix of hellhounds, russes, and manticores can be an absolute bear to grind down because you HAVE to kill the tanks to shut them up. However with the new strat that lets a tank act at full damage profile, Valhallans are less of a necessity than they used to be. Usually you'll only have 1-2 damaged tanks at a time, most players will want to finish them off. It's not like the opponent is just going to knock exactly 9 wounds off every tank and call it a day after all. The Valhallans tank trait shines when you're not very likely to go first and will need as many tanks as possible firing at full BS for the counterattack. With who goes first or second basically being a coinflip and hit mods capped at -1, staying at the top profile on basic tanks isn't quite as life or death as it used to be.
Finally, the order, which is good. It has saved my bacon multiple times in 8th. My meta is insanely aggressive, almost every player has turn 1 charges that WILL make it to your backline one way or another. If you are in an aggressive meta, this is the main reason you would run Valhallans. Properly used with plasma/melta SWS, vets, and command squads, you can bail most of your key damage units out of sticky situations, and you can essentially ignore lone survivors tagging a unit to stop shooting. Unless GW has changed how the rules for shooting work this edition, as long as you didn't fall back and there's no enemy models within an inch, you can shoot. This means killing a smash captain that tagged a Russ to shut it up, killing a few assault marines that tagged a manticore to shut it down a turn, a few lone marines bogging down your Bullgryn to keep them from charging a death company squad, etc. Combined with some primaris pyskers and astropaths, you should be very difficult to lock down in melee. In fact, you'll often find it an advantage, as it will throw a lot of people off balance, and make a player who is by all rights winning feel like he's getting shut down at every turn. By all means, the order isn't perfect, if the opponent has no melee it's pointless, but it is an excellent tool in the toolbox that should not be underestimated. Far as I'm aware, Valhallans are the only army in the game that can target a different melee with shooting attacks, and most people have never fought them at all. It's a very nasty surprise and should 9th turn into another edition of hyper aggressive turn 1 assaults, it's game changing. You will see players, especially in casual metas, instantly go on tilt the first time they see you hose off a leman Russ and then say "right, since that Russ didn't fall back and it's now not in melee, it's going to shoot you." You're essentially telling the opponent "all those cute little tricks like consolidation and tripointing won't save you now."
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Has anyone seen the new crusaders data sheets? I am very curious if its known how their storm shields will update, how many wounds they will have, etc.
My suspicion is we may not get a real answer till a 9 codex for gaurd drops.
Dukeofstuff wrote: Has anyone seen the new crusaders data sheets? I am very curious if its known how their storm shields will update, how many wounds they will have, etc.
My suspicion is we may not get a real answer till a 9 codex for gaurd drops.
I think all the "updates" to gear such as Flamers and Storm Shields will come via errata updates when the new SM codex actually drops.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/28 12:12:37
Gibblets wrote: I'm convinced one of the best regiments for 9th is Valhallan. Their order is great, fire into a combat hitting friendlies on 1s. Artifact lets you use conscripts and the strat lets you bring them back onto a home objective later. The WL trait is a defensive buff, never bad (use Tank Ace ability instead). Finally, the regimental trait is solid, 1/2 the models flee from morale and vehicles double #'s of wounds for dmg table stats.
Lastly I have a question I need sorted, can a hull mounted Heavy Flamer fire in combat like a Heavy Bolter can?
FWIW the trait is actually non-functional in 9th. Attrition losses aren't prevented by it, you only get to halve the single loss to a morale test failure, which is useless.
You should try reading FAQs.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Gibblets wrote: I'm convinced one of the best regiments for 9th is Valhallan. Their order is great, fire into a combat hitting friendlies on 1s. Artifact lets you use conscripts and the strat lets you bring them back onto a home objective later. The WL trait is a defensive buff, never bad (use Tank Ace ability instead). Finally, the regimental trait is solid, 1/2 the models flee from morale and vehicles double #'s of wounds for dmg table stats.
Lastly I have a question I need sorted, can a hull mounted Heavy Flamer fire in combat like a Heavy Bolter can?
Gotta disagree with you here, firing into combat is even less relevant than it was before now that vehicles can fire into melee on their own. For infantry, you already have "Get Back in the Fight' as an order to make you sure don't lose shooting efficiency from units that are engaged and conscripts still being the same cost of infantry squads while being strictly inferior (especially with regards to being more vulnerable to blast weapons) means that you're better off just taking regular infantry squads. Don't forget that the Valhallan strat explicitly forces you to pay reinforcement points for them, so it's not like Tide of Traitors where you can get a new unit for free. Finally, given how morale has actually become better for horde-type armies, you're even less likely to lose models from morale now compared to before, so you're really only getting the most out of the double wounds with regards to damage tables for vehicles.
Right now Catachan seems to be the one of the top choices since they're the most aggressive and able to contest middle objectives with cheap buffable CC infantry and consistent damage with the reroll for one of the D6 for Type weapons.
Catachan is probably still best for those reasons.
Valhallan is fun if your opponent can’t drop your vehicles in a turn, as they keep on fighting at much better stats. If they have lots of AT fire it is less cool.
I’ve found Cadian less useful as I need to go get stuff, not just castle up and let Scions do the work elsewhere on the field.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/28 22:17:39
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Yeah I definitely feel like Catachans are the top tier choice. Their guardsmen can do a bit of everything and that's pretty important in 9th from what I've seen. Cheap, mobile, shooty, and stabby, at least to justify their cost, and if you bring enough they can be fairly durable even with all the doom and gloom people espouse about marines. Most other armies are trending elite, with a couple of units dedicated to horde clearing. Which is where your manticores come in. Neuter the dedicated anti horde units and you can probably buy your guardsmen enough time to have some survive into T5, especially if you're making proper use of reserves.
I'm still not sure what exactly do vs super elite GK and Custodes armies other than just swarm the objectives and scream "you can't kill all of us." I guess I'll find out with this new league my area is starting up, we have a few of both
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
My thoughts on Infantry squads is.. they are rubbish. Just a bit too pricey, the lasgun is just a bit too weak etc. etc.
But I am very sad... does the rule of 3 apply to special weapon squads. So the post I'd just written, about how magic 8 of them swarming the board or terrorising strategic reserves (for 1 command point), is moot?
AM would be a much stronger and flexible army if SWS and HWS ignored the rule of 3 restriction and/or could be taken as a troop choice (maybe as a kind of attachment to an infantry squad).
Then again only Marines tend to get characterful and unique options like that
Makes you wish for the old fashioned platoon structure, where you could get your PCS, 2-5 Infantry squads, up to 1 unit of conscripts and then an allowance of SWS and HWS per platoon... All for a single Troops slot.
Of course that couldn't possibly work for more than a couple of editions, so they broke it up and stand alone Conscripts became an issue they had to price out of existence.
Platoons brought balance and structure to Guard armies that made them feel like something different. [sigh]
Are people thinking the new FW imperial armour book will reinstate the Gorgon Heavy Transport? Its points seem to be absent from the latest update and the datasheet isn't in the warhammer app. It is however still for sale on the FW website, and I'm wondering if it will become a Krieg exclusive unit.
I love the model and would like to include one or two (or three!) in a list, even if they're sub-par choices. I know Guard super heavies are pretty average with the huge CP costs now and points increases.They do however have a very resilient profile with the vast number of wounds and the built in invulnerable save, which I figure could be more useful in 9th for holding objectives. I just hope they don't get squatted.
ArikTaranis wrote: Are people thinking the new FW imperial armour book will reinstate the Gorgon Heavy Transport? Its points seem to be absent from the latest update and the datasheet isn't in the warhammer app. It is however still for sale on the FW website, and I'm wondering if it will become a Krieg exclusive unit.
I love the model and would like to include one or two (or three!) in a list, even if they're sub-par choices. I know Guard super heavies are pretty average with the huge CP costs now and points increases.They do however have a very resilient profile with the vast number of wounds and the built in invulnerable save, which I figure could be more useful in 9th for holding objectives. I just hope they don't get squatted.
I don't think it's getting squatted. They just did another run of that model a few months ago and it sold like crazy. I even bought one. I think the GW app is just missing it, shocking, the GW app being messed up I know
I plan on using mine for apoc but at 2k I just can't think of a way to justify the thing. Either you take it by itself so it doesn't get regiment bonuses and costs cp, or you take it alongside a couple baneblades or something and pretty much everything you have aside from the 3 superheavies rides in the gorgon. Anything you want to take in the gorgon is usually better just walking, even Bullgryn. At 320pts with the mortars, I can take 7 Bullgryn with change. At that point I may as well just double down on Bullgryn and March something like 20 of them across the table.
I'm not really sure how you make it competitive without making it heavy support or a dedicated transport. It's just way too big of an investment in the superheavy category between the points, cp, and slot.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
I also like the model very much and would like to get one but I too think it's not really a points efficient choice.
One thing I thought about with it that might (!) be of some use is kind of "slingshotting" units that are on foot.
The thing is 200mm long as far as I know (8''). So a Bullgryn Squad for example that is <9'' behind a Gorgon can move 6'', get within 3'' of the Gorgon, embark. Next round they can disembark within 3'' of the other end and then move. So they gain 3+3+8 = 14'' of movement.
Also whatever is embarked has quite a large area were they can possibly disembark which might from time to time be practical. Also judging from the image on the Forgeworld website it might be high and wide enough to obscure line of sight at least for chimeras, maybe even for a Leman Russ and definitly for heavy weapons squads and the like. Depending on terrain one might be able to completly block parts of the board.
All in all those are just some ideas how to put it to use if you have it, I don't argue that it's a really competetive choice.
Very strange there is seeming disconnect about Guardsmen. Some feel theyre terrible and die too fast to be worth anything (especially in 9th where obsec is king), and some feel that theyre way too under costed.
Billagio wrote: Very strange there is seeming disconnect about Guardsmen. Some feel theyre terrible and die too fast to be worth anything (especially in 9th where obsec is king), and some feel that theyre way too under costed.
Usually people say they're undercosted in the same sentence as mentioning MoveMoveMove or FRFSRF. But that requires a commander, which these people never factor in the cost of. An infantry squad model that can MoveMoveMove is 6.4 points minimum, not 4. It also requires putting a character in a vulnerable position, likely to give away victory points.
Hey guys, I've just read the free 9th rules. I have a vehicles heavy army and was wondering what do you think about that with your experience (as I have actually 0 game of 9th).
I guess now flamers are definitely better than heavy bolters for vehicles ?
I'm kinda disappointed battle cannons can't shoots into melee...
I did invest in infantry (around 70-80 guys) in 8th edition.
So should I keep my vehicles on the shelf ?
Iposted an army I think is not terrible in ninth with vehicles over in that army list thread, but basically,
manticore is a solid pick with full payload
basilisks are out .. its 1/2 the manticore firepower with 80 percent the price.
wyverns are .. .situational (good for hordeclear, bad for firing at angry marine ravengaurd terminators)
LRTC are solid, LRBT are solid (although some peopel don't like em!),
dual flamer chimera are solid, especially as they help hold objectives by gaurding the obsec troops a bit longer.
hellhounds seem solid
So don't give up on vehicles! They aren't actually worse than they were in the new marine meta, because all the heavy bolters will be picking off 18 poitn marines instead of the old heavy bolters picking off 1/2 a primaris a hit. And there are not many armies where doing a second point of damage is particularly bad -- even FNP spam like death gaurd doesn't appreciate having to roll the die twice.
Its maybe a disapointment that they can't shoot blast weapons in melee, but its not NEW to gaurd to want to keep the tanks out of melee with the enemy thunderhammers, so its not like that changes much in playstyle to be told "if you get into combat with a thunderhammer captain, your ability to do him a couple of wound a turn with your 3 heavy flamers will not save you long." and there won't be much tank left after it does, if it does.
Heavy bolters will soon do 2 damage a shot -- so a lot of them firing together is a pretty useful thing. If you have for example 5 Leman russ with 3 each, and 2 manticores (they don't HAVE to stay on the back row, as they can move and fire) and a wyvern, that is 18x3 or 54 shots of s5/-1/2 piled on top of your normal fire -- and that can be enouhg to finish a big target or seriously mess up enemy screens.
When you consider BS3+/4+ and put harkness down amidst the tanks, you can expect that fleet of armor to hit about 35 times per turn -- while moving away from a charging enemy -- and firing all its other guns as well.
That's pretty effective, enough to kill a couple hundred poitns of marine a turn, and its hard for them to kill that with bolterswarm.
So I think maybe vehicles are not horrible this edition! The sample list I put over there would have to be cagey to keep its objectives from many armies, but solidly able to strip cover and a lot of heavy bolters = a lot of dead anythings. So you have a strong tank phase in a panzer army.
An enemy would probably pick thin the ranks agains it that sample army, and it probably won't leap to win tournaments, but it could be surprisingly good, too, if you play it carefully and pull all the tricks out.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 01:25:41
So I just bought the SGT. Ripper Jackson model, and I don't want to open it because I want to see if it goes up in value in the future. What are her rules, is she a regular 'chan guard sgt, it appears she has preset weapons, so I am guessing RF1 S4 AP0 D1 bolter, S3 AP0 D1 pistol1, And 2+1 attacks with a S4 chainsword. Is that about it?
Yeah realizing our artillery tanks can move and shoot 12" with 0 penalties was a lot of fun. It's crazy how maneuverable they are, you wouldn't think 12" movement on a manticore would mean that much but its really handy to keep them hidden. Honestly full payload manticores are so good I struggle to see how you don't just immediately stick two in a list from the get go and build the rest of the list from there. You at least need one, I can't see any ace ability being more useful than that for the first tank ace.
The new weapon profiles we inherit from the space marines will be fun, but I worry if points will go up to reflect this. Oh well, massed heavy bolters are actually interesting now and the HK missile got a straight upgrade, as did flamer weapons. I still think infantry flamers are pointless but tanks getting 12" heavy flamers is nice.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
In a counter position that also has to be factored, the boards are smaller now. They are also far more crowded with terrain much of which can block line of sight if you are not within that terrain. So a lot of things like leman russ, or massed heavy bolters, has a weakness as well -- that being, you can't necessarily bring it all to bear like we used to do in the very open (comparitively) terrain of 8 and on the larger board. (Cause even if you are "within" terrain that blocks line of sight, you can't draw line of sight where you can't see line ... of sight).
Manticores don't have this problem, basilisks, mortars and wyvern don't, but even massed fire from infantry or a massed drop (MY favorite) by scions becomes difficult to pull off. So picking a nice custom regiment that can do its stuff out to 18 inches, and bringing a horde of such troops, AND a couple flamer tanks, and a couple of leman russ, might end up forcing a real limit on how much you can concentrate forces locally in the board to bring it to bear.
Yeah, I know this isn't "new" comment -- but its something we shouldn't forget as we discuss "do we keep the vehicles in play" and "how much".
I put a very silly army (it starts with only 1 unit on the board) in the list to make this point today ... cause once you have that stormlord full of expensive elites, characters, and such, you have to bring another massive amount of infantry on from strategic reserves, or deepstrike, so much so that you are basically covering the board in troops on turn 2 -- finding places to do that will be HARD. So lets say your enemy has screened his backside (that's going to happen, just by virtue of his being there, most armies that are NOT marines, anyway) .. his death gaurd little stuff is everywhere and has occupied the walls up the sides and moved into the center.
Now your serious deepstrike army can only nibble at the edges of the enemy, dropping in 9+ inches away and firing plasma, and your serious side reserve army can come in -- but only along your deployment zone or along the first maybe 1/3 of the two sidewalls of the game.
If your army, by comparison, were a lot of leman russ, and a lot of chimera, you could find yourself very stuck trying to maneuver past his approaching infantry to get at ... well, anything.
Conversely, if you are going to have a bunch of crusaders get stuck in by the enemy, valhallans behind them could be the real hidden gem of this game, pouring plasma fire and heavy weapons fire (under ordres) into the melee, while the enemy is frustratedly unable to get past their amazing shields and the +1 save effect from their dedicated astropath. I don't think that works as well with the bullygrn bomb, simply becuase if you are taking the occasinal melta, you would rather have that melta kill only 1 20 point model rather than a bullyboy.
I don't mean to throw this whole debate open again, really, but, sort of its all something not to overlook as we theoryhammer in here. But yeah, a air of manticore with full payload blazing away, becomes all the more useful.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 09:42:49
Hey everyone! I'm re-kindling my imperial guard army (which may or may not be a little shorter and greener than normal...)and I'm looking to work out what to add to make my current collection a bit more competitive:
Spoiler:
company commander, plasma pistol, power sword
lord commissar
valkyrie, hellstrike missiles, multi laser
valkyrie, multiple rocket pods, multilaser
4 chimeras, track guards. one with heavy flamer, the rest heavy bolter.
I barely used this army before, in 7th, so it's very new to me really. What sort of things should I invest in next? I'm still not used to the way command squads and the commanders are separate now, not sure if it's worth having the command squads any more or whether t combine the models into a unit of veterans?
What do you all recommend?
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
It might be good to wait a bit how everything settles, but I think (!) some special weapons teams with meltas or plasma could be good. Both are pretty cheap now and you got the chimeras to bring the meltas in range anyway. Unfortunatly as far as I know there are only one of these weapons each in a command squad kit, so it might be advisable to look at bits site or third party companies.
I also think the mortar in the command squad can go to one of the infantry squads or a heavy weapons squad. The command squad dudes are (again: I think) better of with plasma were their better BS really counts.
With the changes to vehicles, Leman Russ are still great. And now they can not be "deactivated" by being touched. So that would also be a good Investment.
And as MrMoustaffa rightfully reported: the Manticore seems to be pretty awesome currently.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 11:25:01
What to invest in next?
Some consideration for what gaurd regiment you prefer. Catachan is VERY strong now, and invites bringing straken and a ministerium priest as characters.
But in any case.
manticore with the stratagem for full payload (up to 2) are GREAT. I totally two thumbs up this choice. If your buddy wants to sell you a basilisk you could run one with full payload as well, but its going to be less of a spicey meatball.
Bullygrn are great. The gaurd lacks resilience for holding objectives in this edition and 6 bullygrn give you that resilience back, so 2 boxes of that? Not the worst choice ever, and fairly easy to get going with. 2+ armor or 4++ invuln, you choice, and bullygryn mauls rock.
A start collecting gaurd or tempest scions box is a good buy pricewise, and neither astra militarum start box is bad. Both have a free commisar in them as a bonus, and he can trundle along as a lord commisar for a cheap melee unit that carries a plasma pistol or bolter pistol, and a powersword. A nice addition to a growing but small gaurd army, even if you don't end up keeping him in competitive lists "someday"
Personally, I would totally go for the scions detachment -- I would get one (ONE) starter box and here is how I would use it for total maximum output.
Lambda lions detachments get ap-1 extra to every single weapon, melee or shooting, infantry or vehicle, so its a good start point.
You can do it "traditional" with a patrol, troop choice included,
Spoiler:
lambda lions .. 1 extra point of ap on everything, an excellent special strategy, and see also tempestor relic and trait (both worth it)
tempestor prime with command rod and powersword(50 points). You can give him a warlord trait and a relic for 1 cp each, that gives a 6 inch 5++ aura for all lambda lions models, and a reroll to hit of 1 for all lambda lions models. So he is pretty awesome.
4 man command squad with 2 hotshotvolleyguns and 2 grenade launchers (this puts out 8 shots s4/-3/1 and 2d6 blast shots s3/-1/1 (or 2 s6/-2/d3 in krak mode. Its pretty solid for a 60 point unit and you have the spec weapons to build it straight out the box)
5 man scions squad with 2 plasma rifles (or 2 melta) and a plasma pistol and a powersword. Your traditional troop with obsec choice, 75 points
taurox with gatling cannon, 2 hotshotvolleyguns, and stormbolter. 125 points. After you step the tempestor prime out beside it, this baby shoots 8 s4/-3/1 shots and 22 (or close, 24) s4/-1/1 shots.
310 points + of course another 35 for a plasma pistol/powersword commisar elite character.
OR, more radically, you could make an elites detachment from this starter kit, with the following makeup, still lambda lions.(but no obsec in the rush to arm everyone with something special.)
Spoiler:
tempestor prime A (the warlord trait -1 cp, and relic -1 cp) and a plasma pistol and powerfist 55
tempestor prime B (plasma pistol and powerfist) 55 (both these guys will fight together, so they both have 5++ shields and between them, are not a bad melee beatstick.
command squad A (2 grenade launcher and hotshotvolleygun) 60 points (against a large group of infantry, a reliable 14 shots per turn, all ap-1 to ap-3)
comand squad B (2 meltaguns and 2 plasma guns) 80 points (you get this one in close against the enemy's heavies, and delete those same).
the commisar (with his plasma pistol and powersword) fills out the detachment as the third elite unit, he's a not so expensive 35 points for a decent melee/shooty little guy.
taurox prime with gatling gun turret and 2 heavy bolter and stormbolter 125
so total of 410 points of gaurd for a 100 dollar purchase
Why lambda lions?
Spoiler:
Lambda lions are a fairly strong gaurd addition right now -- they can deepstrike, they shoot at bs3+, they have better armor, blah blah, but mainly, they add zip and punch to the somewhat lackluster shooting of the guard troops. The surprising flexibility of gaurd with just option B in play can drop in a lot of stuff where your foe least expects or desires it, and even if not near the warlord, the taurox puts out a solid 32 good shots a round. Perhaps it gives you a chance to shoot up his backfield as a sudden move. Perhaps you reinforce the troops that are being threatened with overrun in your deploy zone. Perhaps he has to be ready for either, so his effort is split up. Its nice.
Its not a LOT of models ot assemble and paint, and you can always pick the more traditional imperial gaurd regular starter box (100 bucks for a leman russ (strong) and a squad of infantry with grenade launcher and heavy weapon (probably heavy bolter) with commisar is not bad. There are other scion subgroups that may be as strong or stronger when you get so many plasma and hotshotvolleygun and melta gun that you can saturate your force with those, but if you are just buying one little box, there are real advantages to the lambdas' force field, built in rerolls, and extra ap on the frag grenades and taurox.
I really like the scions -- that little kit gives you deep strikes, a load of special weapons, a load of anti-infantry shooting, some good anti-armor, and a shooty transport that moves a bit faster than chimeras, as well as 3 decent melee guys who can heroically intervene to protect a contested objective in ninth.
So if I were you, I would probably get 2 manticores, 3 bullygryn, and a starterbox of scions .. which would be about 250ish bucks for 700 points of gaurd heavy firepower(prices may be a bit innaccurate!). While your current army isn't competitive -- I think either starter kit + 2 manticore / full payloads would get you to the point that you forces would be able to show up at local game store tourney and maybe not lose every game. (Still a ways from a tuned "gonna beat marines" army, so you ain't winning the tournament but you would at least be able to have fun and not get just skunked). I would probably run the taurox as a transport to move the bullgygrn and the commisar to the place you want to contest control of a midfield objective, and then also bring some mechanized gaurd troops to support that effort.
Pyrolachi isn't wrong about anything he said there .. the scions kit is my lazy answer to "I wish special weapons".
But in summary (I gave you loadouts for them above) (potentially, for maximal flexibility)
2 tempest prime punchy plasma pistolers
2 command squads with 8 special weapons (even not perfect, that's a lot of punch)
1 taurox (not prime) with 2 autocannon carrying 3 bullygrun and a commisar (this means your melee element isn't particularly more vulnerable or slow than your 4 chimera of troops)
2 manticores with full payload
That would be a real solid addition for not so much money and it uses the generous sprue weapons mix of the scions almost to its utter maximum. your army gets solid for the cost firepower, and it gets a very competitive armies' indirect fire support, which covers a lot of sins.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 14:48:36
I am betting Priests are going to go way down in usefulness with the new Core rules,same as Straken. It all depends on what classifies as core now. Bullgryns likely wont, or any other elite.
I do think though squads of light Sentinels with heavy flamers and their scout move, with chain blades make a very effective combo for first turn strikes.
~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
