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Yeah, this really doesn't have to be complicated. If you did something more than spray painting the model a single color, it's probably fine.

Weasels will always try to weasel (both by putting the requirement too high or by trying to say that spraypainting your models then haphazardly splashing a splotch of different color paint on the head qualifies) and the only thing to do about that is not play with weasels.

Well if GW or an opponent wants to claim my completely painted armies not battle ready because I've never painted my clear flight stands (landspeeders)?
Or because I haven't used shade/contrast paint that didn't exist when I painted the army?

Then they can go *** themselves.

Karol wrote:
no detail, just solid red, blue, grey and green for 4 squads of termintors, and light green and black for strike squads. Characters all have yellow bases, so I can spot them easier.

If your want to be clearly compliant, you should paint & texture the top of the bases. You can use the squad coloring for the rims. That will leave them easily identifiable while being clearly battle ready.

if its above just being primed or if the way they primed/base coated it made it look like a cohesive army I'd give it to them. I wouldn't mind it not being based either. Then again I only play with friends and we would have discussed this before hand or not use the rule.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, this really doesn't have to be complicated. If you did something more than spray painting the model a single color, it's probably fine.

Weasels will always try to weasel (both by putting the requirement too high or by trying to say that spraypainting your models then haphazardly splashing a splotch of different color paint on the head qualifies) and the only thing to do about that is not play with weasels.

I only play my models once theyre basecoated + highlighted with an airbrush, pretty sure that counts as "battle-ready"

Of course it would.

I've been wrong in the past, but I don't think anyone really has an actual problem figuring out whether something qualifies or not. Anyone who actually tries to nickle and dime people on this is just not someone you should be playing with.

It's one of those "know it when you see it" sort of things. Anyone can tell within five seconds of looking at someone's army whether it complies. Is it more than just spray-canned a single color? Then it's fine.

jullevi wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Thats the main problem with this rule : its not precise enough so people are gonna try and read into it so it advantages them (ie : makes them win games)

Paint your army and the opponent doesn't get advantage.

I am not sure who is more "that guy", the one that wants the 10 VP he is entitled to or the one that denies the opponent from having it while playing grey legion himself.

If we're going A or B there, jullevi, I'd lean towards B myself.

I would also say it is a poor move by GW to introduce this terminology in the core rulebook and define it in there.

It was stupid to put it in the core rulebook, and it seems like a pretty transparent attempt to sell paints (especially texture paints for the bases, you know that's why they put that in there). Tournaments and events already have their own rules; for anything that isn't an organized event, what's the point of mandating things? People can do it on their own.

The basic issue is it doesn't actually please anyone. I want to play people who paint their models; giving me 10VP as some sort of consolation prize for fighting the guy with the tide of grey plastic doesn't make me happy, just like penalizing him 10VP for it doesn't make him happy either. It's a "feels bad" rule that doesn't actually improve anyone's experience. Especially as it encourages people to paint badly but quickly, instead of taking the time to paint well. I know I'd rather play someone who has 90% of his army painted up beautifully along with a new unit that's just spraypainted because he hasn't had the 40 hours to do a great job on it than the guy with the tide of spraypainted blue marines with red heads and some texture paint splashed on the base. Yet the rule penalizes the guy with the beautiful army and rewards the one with the quick and lazy job.

Like I said in the other thread, it's a stupid rule that is left far to much to interpretation and abuse.

If you don't play it you can be considered a bad gamer, if you do play it you can be considered a bad gamer. If you apply it strictly you can be a bad gamer, if you apply it loosely you can be a bad gamer. Any way you swing it can get you labelled "one of those guys".

It's a bad rule. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the game played on the table and introduces an off table source of VPs, which can be slippery sloped into idiocy. (see all the points about next time people with only factory standard GW models get +5, people who used GW dice and rulers get +15, people who used non GW paints get -250 pts.)

I think this is a far less serious issue than people are making it. In a tournament setting it will be well defined. In a pick up game the worse thing that happens is after the game some sore loser might go "oh your not TECHNICALLY battle ready so I get those extra 10 points which puts me ahead so I win." You can hang around and argue pointlessly or you can move on with your life knowing it's a pick up game and it's only bragging rights if that you gain.

Sure, but that shows why it was a silly rule to put in in the first place. It doesn't actually impact anything, other than making people feel bad.

 Gangland wrote:
I think this is a far less serious issue than people are making it. In a tournament setting it will be well defined. In a pick up game the worse thing that happens is after the game some sore loser might go "oh your not TECHNICALLY battle ready so I get those extra 10 points which puts me ahead so I win." You can hang around and argue pointlessly or you can move on with your life knowing it's a pick up game and it's only bragging rights if that you gain.

That's exactly why it shouldn't be a rule. Events are free to have a minimum standard, and they usually define it (which isn't the case for the core rule book). In a casual game it shouldn't matter one way or the other, so why is it a rule?

 grrrfranky wrote:

 Gangland wrote:
I think this is a far less serious issue than people are making it. In a tournament setting it will be well defined. In a pick up game the worse thing that happens is after the game some sore loser might go "oh your not TECHNICALLY battle ready so I get those extra 10 points which puts me ahead so I win." You can hang around and argue pointlessly or you can move on with your life knowing it's a pick up game and it's only bragging rights if that you gain.

That's exactly why it shouldn't be a rule. Events are free to have a minimum standard, and they usually define it (which isn't the case for the core rule book). In a casual game it shouldn't matter one whay or the other, so why is it a rule?

To encourage me to get my thumb out of my arse and step up my paint game, IME. Which has... worked?

We (as in me and those I play with) thought this rule was a joke the first time we read it.
A few weeks into 9th and with quite a few games under our belts, we still think it's a joke, and we only bring it up for meme's and giggles.

To me, hearing a friend claim "I won because my army is painted" just makes me feel like he's having a laugh.
However, when I imagine two people who don't really know each other (pickup-game or tournament) bring this up though, I just cringe...
I know I wouldn't be able to tell my opponent who technically won with 5 VP that I actually won with 5 VP because my army was painted and his wasn't - at least not with a straight face.

With that said, if it encourages people to get some color on their model's that's great I guess.

If you have to explain why it's battle ready than it probably isn't.

 MinscS2 wrote:
We (as in me and those I play with) thought this rule was a joke the first time we read it.
A few weeks into 9th and with quite a few games under our belts, we still think it's a joke, and we only bring it up for meme's and giggles.

To me, hearing a friend claim "I won because my army is painted" just makes me feel like he's having a laugh.
However, when I imagine two people who don't really know each other (pickup-game or tournament) bring this up though, I just cringe...
I know I wouldn't be able to tell my opponent who technically won with 5 VP that I actually won with 5 VP because my army was painted and his wasn't - at least not with a straight face.

With that said, if it encourages people to get some color on their model's that's great I guess.

although it'd be a great way to deflate some WAAC TFG whose crowing that his entirely grey plastic OP FOTM netlist that he took against your loveingly painted underpowered lore list beat you, by pointing out "actually you lost because my army was painted to battle ready standard and yours wasn't" and honestly outside of tournies using this as a "painting reccomended but not required" mechanic thats where I see the most use of this coming into play

Kayback wrote:
If you don't play it you can be considered a bad gamer, if you do play it you can be considered a bad gamer.

Considered by whom? And why should I care about what they consider me?

Irkjoe wrote:If you have to explain why it's battle ready than it probably isn't.

bingo

tneva82 wrote:


Eeeh...gw made that core rule. Not optional. Trying to claim you won despite not having painted army would make you cheating tfg waac.

Complain to gw. They made rule. It's not tournament rule or optional. It's core rules.

Are you ignoring maximum point limit rule as well? Paying cp for stratagems? -1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy with infantry?

Gw says so. It's not optional rule. Gw says it's part of gw"s scenarios. Either you make your own scenarios and house　rule it or use it. Or you are the waac donkey-cave

Anyone who would tell little Timmy who wanted to try out the new models he just bought in a game at their FLGS that they lose because they didn't paint their models in a casual game is a scumbag, an donkey-cave, and an idiot. And personally, I don't know about you guys, but if I saw such poor sportsmanlike behavior I'd walk up to said scumbag and break his jaw tbqh.

As lame as it'd be to be the guy who insisted on taking 10 points off little Timmy in those circumstances, being the guy who responded to that with violence is surely even lamer.

Well but there are other situation, like for example our store close down. So we have to play in another one. This means there is already more competition for same number of tables, on top of it we are coming in with armies bought at another store, so the sympathy from the other store owner is zero. We have to travel longer to the store, which probably isn't that bad for someone with a car, but by bus it is 2 hours there and 2 hours back. Getting a lose in a store event, because metalic blades on your halabards and not the real power weapon colour mean your army is not painted, is not very fun.

yukishiro1 wrote:
As lame as it'd be to be the guy who insisted on taking 10 points off little Timmy in those circumstances, being the guy who responded to that with violence is surely even lamer.

I'm hoping it's just an Internet Tough Guy hyperbole thing.

And Karol, there's no such thing as "real power weapon colour" - depending on the writer or artist, a power weapon can have a glow or not. After all, how many glowing power fists do you see - and they use the same tech!

yukishiro1 wrote:
As lame as it'd be to be the guy who insisted on taking 10 points off little Timmy in those circumstances, being the guy who responded to that with violence is surely even lamer.

I'm sure little Timmy appreciates your flaccid and impotent moral support.

One sword keeps another in the sheath.

I thought the “I don’t want to take a 10 point advantage for painting’ issue had been solved, by including a random, unpainted model In _ your _ army?

The point of this rule is that GW wants to encourage fully painted armies in the context of organized events.

They have recognized that tournaments and tournament players are a meaningful part of their player base. They have decided to engange directly with this part of the player base. They want to encourage people to bring fully painted armies, because a) marketing and b) fluff, so they put in a rule that rewards it.

Event organizers now have a standard rule for penalizing unpainted armies. Event organizers who don't like it can change it, just like they can with missions. TOs can exercise discretion on what counts as standard.

For pick up and casual play, it is a non-issue. If you strongly disagree about it, you can refuse to play. If your ego is so sensitive that you can't handle losing, particularly over something you can 100% control (by, you know, painting your models), then I recommend you put away your Marines and toughen up with a few dozen losses using GSC or DE.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sure. If you and your buddies are happy with the grey plastic pile look, more power to you I guess.

Just like if little Timmy thinks buying and assembling models is a waste of time and money and wants to just play with cardboard cut-outs, that's fine too, as long as little Timmy's buddies all agree.

Cardboard and proxies are a vital part of the hobby given GW's poor balance. When you cannot rely on all the models you get for Christmas being good enough you need to playtest the rules that GW didn't bother balancing properly such that you can put together an effective Christmas wish-list. Many tournaments were already pushing for painted armies and most players want to play against painted armies on some level, I like to win, but my ego is not so fragile I mind losing by a couple of pts because I brought an unpainted unit, it was when I was a teenager, but this is just too small to get mad about considering how wrong GW got pts in 9th. I actually agree with the sentiment that it will discourage people from bringing their grey plastic just to win, we all know Eradicators are OP, you are not testing them out or looking to have fun, you are looking to stomp on my vehicles for cheap and you couldn't even wait to beat me silly long enough to get your Eradicators painted. BLAM, painting score lost. I'm still going to treat my clear-based models as battle-ready, although I think some people hate clear bases more than grey plastic. Hopefully, this new measure will get rid of painting scores at events, the true horror of getting accurate information on competitive balance, I think it's fair to assume and demand everyone at a GT is battle-ready, but for everyone to be gentlemen of the highest order and master painters I do not think is fair. Just paint your minis as well as you can and try not to be a git and then let GW know who actually won the tournament, not who made the most friends or who has the steadiest hands or the largest wallet. Perhaps prizes should be given only to best sportsman and best painter, but nobody on another continent cares how good of a sportsman someone is, we care which list was best.

This rule is why I play to Draw, rather than Win.

This is rule that should have gone into a event or tournament pack.

Its clear its a bad rule when using it against some players is seen is mean or waac, then only a post or so later not wanting to use it is seen as a sensitive Ego in a casual environment.

Good luck new players !

I think the rule is kind of BS and I can totally understand why someone wouldn't agree that they should have lost a game when they were ahead in VP before paint score and I don't think that's having a fragile ego and I didn't mean to say that although reading my post again I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

In GW games sometimes you just have to have your personal victories, kill at least one unit against an OP army or a better player, destroy the enemy army even if you cannot get back on VP etc. etc. Paint score winning a game isn't any different than winning because you are playing with more OP units than your opponent, it's only problematic when it affects tournament rankings and given that it's a minimum requirement it's not horrible, but having +3VP for 3 colours, +2VP for based + 5VP for pro-level paint would be much worse even if the majority of people would only get +5 instead of +10 against grey tides. I will personally never enforce the battle ready bonus, I wouldn't even enforce it against someone who was proxying their entire army with cardboard, but I wouldn't punch someone for trying to enforce it against me.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Eeeh...gw made that core rule. Not optional. Trying to claim you won despite not having painted army would make you cheating tfg waac.

Complain to gw. They made rule. It's not tournament rule or optional. It's core rules.

Are you ignoring maximum point limit rule as well? Paying cp for stratagems? -1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy with infantry?

Gw says so. It's not optional rule. Gw says it's part of gw"s scenarios. Either you make your own scenarios and house　rule it or use it. Or you are the waac donkey-cave

Anyone who would tell little Timmy who wanted to try out the new models he just bought in a game at their FLGS that they lose because they didn't paint their models in a casual game is a scumbag, an donkey-cave, and an idiot. And personally, I don't know about you guys, but if I saw such poor sportsmanlike behavior I'd walk up to said scumbag and break his jaw tbqh.

Go for it. I've got a good lawyer. You'll be buying me new models for the rest of your life.