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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK


Someone I know wants to pick up a new army, and doesn't want to be space marines (not sure why they don't like winning, but at least it'll take the ratio of imperium:xenos in our play group from 9:1 to 9:2 so I'm not going to stop them).

We were discussing a bunch of stuff, and they seemed to be keen on Eldar (they liked harlequins a fair bit, but elves in general were good) and Tau, and I couldn't really think which of those I could recommend as being worthwhile to pick up right now.

Eldar have always been a high-floor, high-ceiling kind of army, as they're so fragile. But then most Tau units hit on a 5+ so they struggle to kill anything (from my vague understanding from reading the codex, I haven't played against Tau in many many years).

Thought I'd come and throw the question up on here, and see what people would recommend.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eldar are tricky to pilot, but can still do some very scary things. Craftworlds mechanized lists pair high value shooting with some of the most absurd mobility you can get, with a side of psychic shenanigans. They're hard to master, but not that hard to get a feel for and have fun with.

Tau on the other hand...got hit *HARD* by the transition to ninth. The confluence of points changes, rules changes, and the changed board size makes their path to victory very narrow, especially if you're in a marine meta. If it comes down to a choice, point them towards the Elves.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





how comfortable they are working with resin? CWE have a lot of finecast and this could be a deal breaker for some.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

BrianDavion wrote:
how comfortable they are working with resin? CWE have a lot of finecast and this could be a deal breaker for some.


I don't think thats been an issue / consideration. Not sure how many of the resin units are actually playable atm anyway, I can't think of any I'd recommend they buy first.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







It's kind of a toss-up. Both are difficult to play, the Eldar are heavily reliant on using limited-use psychic powers efficiently on really squishy units and the Tau require a detailed understanding of how melee armies work to get out of trouble, new players tend to see one unit get touched by a melee unit and then their army slowly get rolled up by units they don't know how to counter, and then get trained into calling the game as soon as the first charge lands.

I think I'd come down on the side of the Tau overall. They've definitely been hurt by the shorter tables, but 9e missions really emphasize survivability, and the Tau have a much easier time standing on objectives in the middle of the table and not going away than the Eldar do, particularly now that the larger battlesuits can use their guns in melee.

Addendum: As to the Eldar (any flavour) question Harlequins are about as hard-mode as 40k gets; I know people who can consistently win with them, but they're experienced tournament players with a load of practice, and even then they're moving more to soup to patch holes in the list. Dark Eldar are in a weird place right now because of the bizarre decision to split up Kabals, Covens, and Wych Cults into separate sub-factions; they're playable but require about 3x as much bookkeeping as another faction. If a new player were planning on starting any Eldar I'd definitely recommend Craftworlds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiru wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
how comfortable they are working with resin? CWE have a lot of finecast and this could be a deal breaker for some.


I don't think thats been an issue / consideration. Not sure how many of the resin units are actually playable atm anyway, I can't think of any I'd recommend they buy first.


Dark Reapers? Shining Spears?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/10 21:51:59


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 AnomanderRake wrote:


I think I'd come down on the side of the Tau overall. They've definitely been hurt by the shorter tables, but 9e missions really emphasize survivability, and the Tau have a much easier time standing on objectives in the middle of the table and not going away than the Eldar do, particularly now that the larger battlesuits can use their guns in melee.

Addendum: As to the Eldar (any flavour) question Harlequins are about as hard-mode as 40k gets; I know people who can consistently win with them, but they're experienced tournament players with a load of practice, and even then they're moving more to soup to patch holes in the list. Dark Eldar are in a weird place right now because of the bizarre decision to split up Kabals, Covens, and Wych Cults into separate sub-factions; they're playable but require about 3x as much bookkeeping as another faction. If a new player were planning on starting any Eldar I'd definitely recommend Craftworlds.



It's a shame that only the riptide has the monster keyword. All the other battlesuits being just... battlesuits, with fly, means they get turned off in melee so easily. No ability to fall back and shoot, or shoot while in combat, seems to really hurt basically the whole army. No wonder all the lists you see have triple riptides.

What would you recommend as an 'easy' Eldar list? I play eldar (though not very well) and I would have said Harlequins were much more powerful than most CWE units. They get invulnerable saves, -1 to hit, and deal a bunch of damage. Expensive though, so not sure how the maths works out. Most eldar units die to a stiff breeze it seems. Wave serpent spam is what you usually see, but it's an incredibly boring list, not sure I could recommend it.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Niiru wrote:
...What would you recommend as an 'easy' Eldar list? I play eldar (though not very well) and I would have said Harlequins were much more powerful than most CWE units. They get invulnerable saves, -1 to hit, and deal a bunch of damage. Expensive though, so not sure how the maths works out. Most eldar units die to a stiff breeze it seems. Wave serpent spam is what you usually see, but it's an incredibly boring list, not sure I could recommend it.


I hate to recommend something you've already denounced as incredibly boring but going mechanized is by far and away the easiest way to play the army. You don't necessarily need to spam Wave Serpents, but pretty much every infantry unit in the army is vastly better with the ability to hide in a durable box until they get where they need to go. A Wave Serpent or two really should be one of the first things on the purchase list for a new player.

(I started 40k in early 4e with Mechdar, and though I have since sold the army the Wave Serpent has been the most consistently good thing in any army in any GW game, as far as I can tell.)

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Niiru wrote:
Wave serpent spam is what you usually see, but it's an incredibly boring list, not sure I could recommend it.


Lets be clear about this, Mechanized Eldar in 9th is not Wave Serpent spam. You're looking at a few Serpents for durable objective holding, but primarily War Walkers, Wraithlords, Vypers, and possibly Night Spinners and Falcons (the Spinners are probably a bit of an advanced pick due to their cost but still worth mentioning), plus bike characters with some Dire Avengers as troop choices plus or minus a Wraithguard/Wraithblade posse for flavor.

Run them as an Expert Crafters custom Craftworld and each mechanized unit is fairly self sufficient, mobile, and able to lob pretty scary things downfield. It's an accessible, reasonably easy to learn army that still requires considerable tactical planning and maneuvering to get the most out of.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/10 22:50:40


 
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






I would say whatever he likes the look of.

The benefit of "Eldar" is he can slot in Harlequins (who came out really good in 9th from what ive seen) or dark eldar/ Ynnari characters etc. To experiment with different playstyles.

I dont think they are terribly hard to pilot.. There really isint that many stratagems or warlolrd traits to pick. If he likes wraiths he could go wraith and vehicle heavy for a mechanised tough eldar. AT least he dont have to go through the hassle of painting a bajilion troops now and can just get away with some DAs for a battalion and fill the rest with cool stuff (vypers, wraithlords, wraiths, weapon platforms, war walkers etc. ) which is all pretty valid (apart from the wraith knight). And if he wants to be a connoisseur he can hunt around ebay for metal aspects for a bit of fun coz failcast be failcast..

If hes your friend I'd recommend strongly he pick the army he likes the look of which he finds pleasing to look/ interesting for the fluff that captures his imaginations. Chances are by the time he gets an army off the ground the rules might change so much the faction he picks could be totaly different..

I personally think you will never have a bad game when you are fielding units you enjoy looking at and enjoy making pew noises for win or loose.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 22:58:16


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Argive wrote:


I personally think you will never have a bad game when you are fielding units you enjoy looking at and enjoy making pew noises for win or loose.


Very true, and that may be what ends up swinging it, but always good to go in with some idea on playstyles and options.

The last time I played Tau myself was years and years ago, and I remember them being awkward to play, as it was in a time when being charged was commonplace and tau just folded under it. Everything missing all their shots was also somewhat frustrating in a shooting-specialised army.

I've already told them to look at the GW shop pages before deciding anything

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I'm coming from the Eldar department.
It's a tricky army to play but after some test games one should be able to adapt well.
I'd start with DA's, Serpents, Skyrunner Autarch and Skyrunner Farseer as a core.
From here you can expand very well.

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