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For the one reason that Space marines gets updated faster and more updated than the rest of the factions. This thread isnt to shame space marine players, it just saddens me that the balance is thrown out the window due to the amount of people playing Space Marines and how popular they are. The fault isnt with the player but with GW. There is money in space marine, not apparently in the rest of the factions.


Like GW give two farts about Xenos. We're going to suck untill our codex even comes out, where as space marines received many updates by the end of 8th.


And not only that but its boring that all boxes have to contain space marines one way or the other.

I just wished more people would play other factions than space marines to balance out what content gets released as well as when.

As a Space Marine player I hate it too

I have a Xenos and a Chaos army for times when my local meta gets too Space Marine heavy.

Same.

This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

Beardedragon wrote:
For the one reason that Space marines gets updated faster and more updated than the rest of the factions.

Like GW give two farts about Xenos. We're going to suck untill our codex even comes out, where as space marines received many updates by the end of 8th.


And not only that but its boring that all boxes have to contain space marines one way or the other.

I just wished more people would play other factions than space marines to balance out what content gets released as well as when.

Why play npc faction? Tim 12yo's would love though. More npc's to crush

 auticus wrote:
This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

im not interested in taking away space marines, i really just want GW to balance out what content they make rather than always focusing on space marines.

But i know they wont do anything for balance as they care too much about money to be bothered.

The problem with Space Marines is, that GW support them massively--> more people buy them-->GW support them massively ....and so on..

To break this chain, people need to think about to buy other factions, but i do not think these will happen.

Like many things GW makes the Space Marines are a perfectly fine idea that has been borked by poor execution. In theory it's very useful for them to have a basic faction they can hand to the aforementioned Timmy the 12-year-old that doesn't require a huge investment to get started, is straightforward to paint, straightforward to play, and uses a wide enough variety of unit types/mechanics that they're not very sensitive to core rules changes. In practice their efforts to resculpt the faction without telling us that's what they're doing has led to a bloated range, the broken statline math of 8e left the poster faction pretty underwhelming for most of the edition and the extra special rules they tried to stack on to compensate were a massive overcorrection that badly broke the competitive meta, and the Sigmar designers that keep poking their heads in to copy-paste concepts from the Stormcast ("open another chamber!", prayers, character bloat) are just making things worse.

Beardedragon wrote:

 auticus wrote:
This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

im not interested in taking away space marines, i really just want GW to balance out what content they make rather than always focusing in space marines.

But i know they wont do anything for balance as they care too much about money to be bothered.

They tried this a few times historically (stealer cults, admech, harlequins, deathwatch in recent-ish memory), some did well enough to warrant more releases, some didn't. It's not like they haven't introduced new factions or content elsewhere, but unless people buy into it, where is their incentive?

What army(ies) do you play?

Does this forum really need a dedicated QQ-threads about "Stoopid Space Marines" and those who play them?
Seems those kind of posts have no problem infiltrating every and any topic on the board already.

/Space Marine-player who also plays 4 other factions, including Xeno's.

Beardedragon wrote:

 auticus wrote:
This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

im not interested in taking away space marines, i really just want GW to balance out what content they make rather than always focusing in space marines.

But i know they wont do anything for balance as they care too much about money to be bothered.

Agreed. I have had Eldar for decades now and I have lead models which are still the same casts as ones still out today (Notably all the Pheonix Lords bar one, Warp Spiders, shining Spears, Warlocks, Avatar and fire dragons). Yet in that time, several models have been not only produced, but subsequently redesigned for other armies. Why? Money.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand it is a business and their business is making money - but diversity is definately lacking and sadly I think they are getting it right more for AOS than they are for 40k. At least some of that AOS Model design is starting to bleed into 40k.

Dudeface wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 auticus wrote:
This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

im not interested in taking away space marines, i really just want GW to balance out what content they make rather than always focusing in space marines.

But i know they wont do anything for balance as they care too much about money to be bothered.

They tried this a few times historically (stealer cults, admech, harlequins, deathwatch in recent-ish memory), some did well enough to warrant more releases, some didn't. It's not like they haven't introduced new factions or content elsewhere, but unless people buy into it, where is their incentive?

What army(ies) do you play?

Yeah, the new marine releases sold so well, when GW did a big purge of the gak that didn't sell in their warehouse and packaged it up in a 50% of blind box liquidation, the contents of the boxes were:

-Space marine bikers
-Fenrisian wolves
-4 of the brand new space marine characters
-Arco-flagellants

and the other box was

-Space marine scouts
-Space marine sniper scouts
-2 of the new space marine characters
-Knight castellan.

Yup, marines must be really SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES amirite everyone must want em and buy em!

 MinscS2 wrote:
Does this forum really need a dedicated QQ-threads about "Stoopid Space Marines" and those who play them?
Seems those kind of posts have no problem infiltrating every and any topic on the board already.

/Space Marine-player who also plays 4 other factions, including Xeno's.

They're happening a lot right now because SM are overpowered and there are out-of-context leaks coming from GW implying that they're going to get buffs in the next book. This may change if the book comes out and fixes some of the OP stuff (I think it's highly unlikely the Marines will keep much of the stuff they got in the supplements). It may not if it doesn't.

the_scotsman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 auticus wrote:
This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

im not interested in taking away space marines, i really just want GW to balance out what content they make rather than always focusing in space marines.

But i know they wont do anything for balance as they care too much about money to be bothered.

They tried this a few times historically (stealer cults, admech, harlequins, deathwatch in recent-ish memory), some did well enough to warrant more releases, some didn't. It's not like they haven't introduced new factions or content elsewhere, but unless people buy into it, where is their incentive?

What army(ies) do you play?

Yeah, the new marine releases sold so well, when GW did a big purge of the gak that didn't sell in their warehouse and packaged it up in a 50% of blind box liquidation, the contents of the boxes were:

-Space marine bikers
-Fenrisian wolves
-4 of the brand new space marine characters
-Arco-flagellants

and the other box was

-Space marine scouts
-Space marine sniper scouts
-2 of the new space marine characters
-Knight castellan.

Yup, marines must be really SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES amirite everyone must want em and buy em!

Ancient bikes and scouts flood the 2nd hand market and paid for themselves years ago, the characters probably don't sell that well, because not everyone uses them and those who do need 1 and 1 alone. The rest was probably just whatever they had most of. No way the castellan doesn't sell.

Problem is not only 12yo kids start SM, but also adults. To me they look in any possible way the army of a beginner 12yo old but unfortunately they are loved by most of the fan base.

SM are so popular that they should always be bottom tier; this way they'd be as common as other armies on the table. Not unplayable of course but with low chance of winning tournaments. Only way to balance a meta, SM would show up anyway as they are beloved by many. And in casual games they'd do ok, like they always did in any edition.

 Blackie wrote:
Problem is not only 12yo kids start SM, but also adults. To me they look in any possible way the army of a beginner 12yo old but unfortunately they are loved by most of the fan base.

SM are so popular that they should always be bottom tier; this way they'd be as common as other armies on the table. Not unplayable of course but with low chance of winning tournaments. Only way to balance a meta, SM would show up anyway as they are beloved by many. And in casual games they'd do ok, like they always did in any edition.

Inquisition are so uncommon and unpopular, if teamed up with sisters of silence, they should start the game with 95/100 vp, not impossible to play against, but you shouldn't beat them often

The Space Marines are somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point. They've always been a very popular and considered to be the ideal starter faction, generally appeal to younger players just starting in the game and they've been in the starter box of every edition. So they sell well. GW are a major company driven by delivering profit to their shareholders, and the simple fact that space marines sell way better than any other faction means that releasing a new space marine kit is a financially better decision for GW than releasing a new kit for a less popular faction. So GW release new space marine kits. Then, because they have so much support as a faction and get so many kits, people buy more space marines, the gulf in sales between space marines and other factions grows wider and GW has even more reason to keep pumping marine kits out. Primaris pretty much exist because GW can't not release marine kits, and they didn't have much more room to manoeuvre in the classic marine line - nearly everything was fairly new/up-to-date or generally not in need of new kits, so there weren't really many more logical things to release. They'd resorted to creating bizarre new things like centurions to fill gaps that didn't need filling, such was the need to release more space marines.

Following that logic they would release nothing but space marines, but they will realise that A) not all customers like or want space marines, so there is room for other stuff too, and B) if there are only space marines it makes things more boring even for the marine players, because they only ever get to play against other marines. So they do release kits for other factions from time to time - but they're not as profitable as marines so they release fewer.

I think they've definitely been overdoing it since 8th. They're giddy with possibilities at having a complete new space marine line to fill in with no pre-existing lore to hamper the possibilities of new kits. Hopefully the marine releases will slow down and allow other factions some time in the spotlight, but I suspect we'll never go too long without a marine release.

Perhaps people should play the army that they want and not worry about other people's choices so much? Be the change you want to see in the meta.

Like the old MW2 Boycott Steam Group, the majority of people complaining about Space Marines will go out and still buy the new codex and all the new models and thereby help to continue the cycle.

If you are actually sick of it, then actually stop supporting it. Otherwise save your breath and just collect and play the Marine army that appeals to you and nobody can begrudge you for that. You just look really disingenuous otherwise.

Also unrelated, but for anyone who thinks they're some heroic martyr for only using Oldmarines and refusing to use Primaris you still play a busted, broken-ass army that is incredibly unfun to play against and has been rendered completely boring through oversaturation. Some of the worst, most oppressive units in the 2.0 Dex were Oldmarine units and you aren't slumming it with the other armies because you never used Intercessors. You're like the song "Common People" by Pulp.

Another point that bothers me about space marines is how they are generally not bad at anything. Sure there are different sub factions of space marines, but over all they arent really bad at neither shooting nor melee, they have good tanks, they have good heroes.

They have good everything. Where they used to be a master of none, a jack of all trades, they are now, pretty much the master of everything.

Balance wise, Space marines dont need a god damn thing for the next long time, but basically every other race does, especially Xenos.

Did GW forget that Eldar exists? I am not an Eldar player myself though, i play Orks.

For me as an ork player, i just see a massive tidal wave of nerfs hitting my ork shores, and the only thing that can redeem the orkish faction is really the new Codex. And not even that is a guarantee.

Nerfs here, nerfs there, nerfs to the KFF, cant use specialist detatchments, points changes that makes no god damn sense and changes to the over all meta with blast weapons, coherency rules, charges and all just makes orks and really, Tyranids too really tedious. I can literally play versus some space marine match ups that are close to unbeatable. thats just not fun.

The "good things" like overwatch being a CP thing and few other minor things dont at all make up for the clusterfeth that is the ork faction at this point. And im pretty sure Tyranids are facing a blunt force trauma too. Possibly many other Xenos factions too except for the Necrons im guessing.

And even if the Eldars were balanced (i dont really know) they could do with new models still.


But Xenos races are pretty bumped, at least untill the codexes comes out. Space marines are not the ones that need buffs, and the balance as we speak is thrown out the window.

And the dumb thing is, we all know those codexes are already done because they do them in advance. They are just waiting to release them. For proper balance, all codexes should be released at the same time, the moment 9th edition is officially started.

Mind all of you i dont care if people play space marine, i just had a tiny boys dream that GW would put less focus on making Space marines awesome, and more focus on them balancing the rest of the factions accordingly. Which they dont so far.

Beardedragon wrote:
Another point that bothers me about space marines is how they are generally not bad at anything. Sure there are different sub factions of space marines, but over all they arent really bad at neither shooting nor melee, they have good tanks, they have good heroes.

They have good everything. Where they used to be a master of none, a jack of all trades, they are now, pretty much the master of everything.

I think nothing illustrates this better than the relationship between basic weapons, and how it's changed over the years.

Shuriken Catapult: Years ago, the Catapult being an Assault weapon meant that the wielder could fire it twice and Charge afterwards. Not to mention 2nd Edition incarnation. I'll stick to 3rd/4th ed comparisons because of the other weapons.
Tau Pulse Rifle: S5 with a 30 inch range. That was a big deal when the Bolter was only 24" max range.
Necron Gauss Rifle: Necrons didn't get Special weapons. Their Gauss ability made up for it by always being able to Wound/Glance on 6s
Each weapon had a distinct way that it was better than a Bolter, but in most cases they were wielded by lesser models.

These days the Intercessor Rifle has the Range of the Tau rifle, the extra bonus of the Necron Rifle, and there's no limit to Charging after firing it anymore. It's basically just each of those weapons slammed together into one super rifle, with Doctrines thrown on top of it. It's gross.

Actually what bothers me even more is, that those factions that are S rank factions, as in the highest tier and best factions, they arent even necessarily the factions being nerfed.

it often seem completely random how GW balances warhammer 40k.

Even a bottom feeder faction can receive nerfs and the top factions can receive buffs.

Who ever is in charge of balancing the game has clearly given up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Another point that bothers me about space marines is how they are generally not bad at anything. Sure there are different sub factions of space marines, but over all they arent really bad at neither shooting nor melee, they have good tanks, they have good heroes.

They have good everything. Where they used to be a master of none, a jack of all trades, they are now, pretty much the master of everything.

I think nothing illustrates this better than the relationship between basic weapons, and how it's changed over the years.

Shuriken Catapult: Years ago, the Catapult being an Assault weapon meant that the wielder could fire it twice and Charge afterwards. Not to mention 2nd Edition incarnation. I'll stick to 3rd/4th ed comparisons because of the other weapons.
Tau Pulse Rifle: S5 with a 30 inch range. That was a big deal when the Bolter was only 24" max range.
Necron Gauss Rifle: Necrons didn't get Special weapons. Their Gauss ability made up for it by always being able to Wound/Glance on 6s
Each weapon had a distinct way that it was better than a Bolter, but in most cases they were wielded by lesser models.

These days the Intercessor Rifle has the Range of the Tau rifle, the extra bonus of the Necron Rifle, and there's no limit to Charging after firing it anymore. It's basically just each of those weapons slammed together into one super rifle, with Doctrines thrown on top of it. It's gross.

Exactly. Other factions have clear strengths they can utilize, and weaknesses that the enemy can capitalize on. They are good at some things and bad at others.

Space marines?

What the feth is even bad? That word no longer appears in their dictionary. they're basically good at everything. And the few things they do bad, they're so few in numbers.

even fast attack isnt a bad thing for them.

I think partially you're making the mistake of seeing particular changes as intentional "nerfs" and not marketing decisions or simply mixups within the pipeline.

Take the recent orks stuff. It's much more plausible to me that whoever threw together the most recent "Big Mek with KFF" datasheet simply made mistakes, which then GW didn't get around to fixing until a FAQ that was delayed due to COVID downtime, than the KFF ceasing to work in melee was someone in GW going "Orks are too strong, we have to nerf them, change the KFF"

Same thing with the Ork Warboss on Warbike. GW announced that Forgeworld's new indexes were supposed to have launched with the launch of 9th, however, they are nowhere to be seen. Currently, Forgeworld's index from the dawn of 8th doesn't include a separated datasheet for the Ork Warboss on Warbike they sell - it was a unit that existed within the codex that they didn't NEED to make a separate Forgeworld datasheet for.

I find it personally more likely that that model was supposed to exist in a new Forgeworld index, but (again, probably the fact that the world ended for a solid 3 months there) something delayed the new index, and its point cost wound up in the munitorum manual accidentally. Rather than the alternative - that its removal was due to GW purposefully wanting to penalize ork players.

This has been a 40k plague since 40k became a thing. Space Marines are what makes 40k be 40k with its mega massive population.

Take away space marines and... that would be an interesting experiment.

It absolutely has not been a "plague" since the beginning

They were always popular, but never like this. Not even close. Let's not pretend like every edition has had a near constant stream of marine releases on an almost monthly (and sometimes WEEKLY) basis and that each release was even more OP than the last. Marines have always been popular, but GW really have set a new precedent lately. Even when xenos do get a release, there's almost always a slightly smaller marine release going with it. We've never seen a push like this, and we've also never been at a point where, despite an almost overwhelming pace of releases, with GW releasing things faster than they ever have before, we have many non-marine armies that have gone YEARS without an update (no PA does NOT count as most of those books were garbage) while Marines got not 1, but TWO codexes on top of I don't even know how many supplements. No. This has not been a "plague since the beginning".

We actually are seeing something pretty different. I mean I'm actually a marine player and I can't even stand it. I have actually shelved my Imperials. My HOPE is that once the Marine dex gets released in October, they will have gotten through all, or at least most of the new stuff for marines and can start going back to other factions for a while. Since they concentrated so hard to get the new Primaris stuff out, they should then be able to concentrate just as hard to fix the problems inherent in the armies that have been largely ignored, or actively damaged in the last few years. I hope anyway. About as optimistic as I can get here.

Beardedragon wrote:
Actually what bothers me even more is, that those factions that are S rank factions, as in the highest tier and best factions, they arent even necessarily the factions being nerfed.

it often seem completely random how GW balances warhammer 40k.

Even a bottom feeder faction can receive nerfs and the top factions can receive buffs.

Who ever is in charge of balancing the game has clearly given up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Another point that bothers me about space marines is how they are generally not bad at anything. Sure there are different sub factions of space marines, but over all they arent really bad at neither shooting nor melee, they have good tanks, they have good heroes.

They have good everything. Where they used to be a master of none, a jack of all trades, they are now, pretty much the master of everything.

I think nothing illustrates this better than the relationship between basic weapons, and how it's changed over the years.

Shuriken Catapult: Years ago, the Catapult being an Assault weapon meant that the wielder could fire it twice and Charge afterwards. Not to mention 2nd Edition incarnation. I'll stick to 3rd/4th ed comparisons because of the other weapons.
Tau Pulse Rifle: S5 with a 30 inch range. That was a big deal when the Bolter was only 24" max range.
Necron Gauss Rifle: Necrons didn't get Special weapons. Their Gauss ability made up for it by always being able to Wound/Glance on 6s
Each weapon had a distinct way that it was better than a Bolter, but in most cases they were wielded by lesser models.

These days the Intercessor Rifle has the Range of the Tau rifle, the extra bonus of the Necron Rifle, and there's no limit to Charging after firing it anymore. It's basically just each of those weapons slammed together into one super rifle, with Doctrines thrown on top of it. It's gross.

Exactly. Other factions have clear strengths they can utilize, and weaknesses that the enemy can capitalize on. They are good at some things and bad at others.

Space marines?

What the feth is even bad? That word no longer appears in their dictionary. they're basically good at everything. And the few things they do bad, they're so few in numbers.

even fast attack isnt a bad thing for them.

I'd argue for board presence, they're seemingly about to go up in points with the incoming changes which leaves them with fewer bodies and toys on the board.

They are generally a bit too generally good and balanced currently but could be easily fixed and dialled back in a month.

They are not a bit too good.

They are WAY too good considering all other factions have clear weaknesses.

Space Marines have basically none and those they have are miniscule.


Also i cant stress enough how this thread isnt meant to shame Space Marine players. I just think it would be over all great if less people played them or bought their stuff in 9th edition only to maybe twist GWs arm around to make other content too and balance out the entirety of the 40k factions.

Because i know they wont just put a pause on Space marines themselves.

but i guess i also know that not so many players are going to put a pause on space marines that it would ever matter so i guess im asking for a Utopia..

Over all i just hate that there are so many space marine players because GW are greedy and cant stop pleasing those players, which results in GW throwing balance out the window.

And lets not forget, its not fun to constantly fight Space marine players balanced or not. Luckily many people that do collect space marines have other armies too for variation in your local friendly store.

Dudeface wrote:


Inquisition are so uncommon and unpopular, if teamed up with sisters of silence, they should start the game with 95/100 vp, not impossible to play against, but you shouldn't beat them often

Inquisition is not an army, it's another tool for SM lists

I'm almost planning on continuing to use my xenos armies, but with then space marine rules.

I think the thing is Space marines are really cool and most people really like them. The problem is that there are other factions that are just as cool and GW could make money off them if they invested in them more. If they bring out a new army and only make more releases if it sells well they aren’t taking into account the fact that people are already well invested in the current armies and the new armies will always be competing. You have to give people time to build up and become invested in an army and as time goes on GW can expand the range and sell more. That’s one of the reasons why SM do so well, they’ve been there form the start and they are so well developed that if you e been playing SM for years your really dug in and if your new to them there’s a whole world of options. But it seems to me that even though eldar have been around for years GW have just kept them operating around the same level as they were when I played as a kid in 2nd edition.

Ya know what I Hate? I hate people who judge other people for playing the army they want. Thats what I hate, Marines get the love they do because so many people "Want to play space marines" If Marines didn't sell well they'd not get this level of support.

seriously complaining that people play an army? that's childish. Marines have always been a top selling faction even when they've been middling tier at best.

Grow up people. focus on you doing you, and let others do them. and stop getting your panties in a twist because someone chooses to play an army thats *gasp* popular.