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 Esmer wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:


When the guard dex comes, I think it's going to be huge. I think Elysians will be added in plastic, Cadians and Catachans will get resculpted, I think they'll add an aircraft or two (they've got a transport, so they need a fighter and a bomber). This is why I don't think we're getting the guard dex this year.

Guard will go from getting absolutely nothing for years to three new plastic ranges? I doubt that a lot. In fact, I doubt Guard will ever get resculpted basic infantry, since the 3rd producer variety is simply too great. The one thing I can see getting redone are Scions - who basically got their own mini dex again in PA.

Yeah one new range would be nice (Turan!) but not super likely I feel. And Scions could be a supplemental Codex, with all that stuff they got in PA; that would also work. though as a whole the Guard are not in terrible shape, and aren't desperate for a new Codex - most of their stuff works, its just not necessarily the best.

ccs wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
With that all said, I'm thinking:
Orks with Feral Orks added in
Mechanicus
Sisters of Battle
Drukhari

Yeah, no. Or at least not any time soon.
When the SoB arrive the edition ends about 6 months later. So you've got about 3 years min. there.

Then I guess 9E will be over by the end of the year.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:The only candidates for "not getting a codex" I see would be Ynnari and Inquisition. Simply because GW has no clue how handle these kind of plug-in factions right now.

I don't see Ynnari getting a codex, but I could definitely see them getting a supplement book. Inquisition seemed fairly well done in Pariah from my lookover...but I'm well known for disliking the concept of them beyond characters.

That said, I don't have enough insight into other factions to judge them this early in the edition, but orks are in need of some work, though not desperately so. Quite a few units are a mess right now and most competitiveness and synergies come from meta-strategies like target saturation, board control and low points per wound costs. It would be nice if there was some actual synergy between ork units besides the KFF.

There definitely looks to be some Feral Orks/Snakebites coming...maybe that will be how you get cheaper Boyz?

Death Guard are in a pretty decent state with their great PA, if they get the imperial weapon changes FAQ'ed in, they might be able to hold out quite some time before they get their codex. Quite fitting for them
There is the issue with the shared datasheets between them, CSM and TS, so if GW doesn't go the easy route and drops those three codices at the same time, there might be a mess for some time.

tneva82 wrote:
Death guard might need one soon. If they get extra wound with errata then either they need serious point changes or they might be broken good. They are already one of the top dogs in 9th. With extra wound becomes super tough. Even dam2 weapon isn't much help as they essentially have extra 4+ save vs those so you need 3 through armour/invulnerable to kill 2.

Source?

The article yesterday is where the 2W info comes from. All Marine units that aren't Scouts are getting an additional Wound, and the weapons are being updated at the same time.

Esmer wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:


When the guard dex comes, I think it's going to be huge. I think Elysians will be added in plastic, Cadians and Catachans will get resculpted, I think they'll add an aircraft or two (they've got a transport, so they need a fighter and a bomber). This is why I don't think we're getting the guard dex this year.

Guard will go from getting absolutely nothing for years to three new plastic ranges? I doubt that a lot. In fact, I doubt Guard will ever get resculpted basic infantry, since the 3rd producer variety is simply too great.

And that actually is one of the most likely reasons we'll see resculpted basic infantry. Adding something new that encourages people to buy them up. I don't think we'll see three ranges, but I definitely think we'll see a refresh of the Cadians and Catachans at least. They did Fire Warriors last edition and didn't change much beyond adding a new weapon type and the turret.

The one thing I can see getting redone are Scions - who basically got their own mini dex again in PA.

Scions really just need a few things added to let them really be a 'standalone' subfaction within the codex and they'll be fine.

PenitentJake wrote:
Many had suggested that the lieutenant previews (Sisters, Orks, Drukari and Deathguard) were a likely indicator of the codex release schedule. I still think that's a fair assumption.

Since the sister's curse has been mentioned in the thread already, I want to address that specifically. This time around, Sisters figured heavily into the promotion of the edition; on the 40k website, they were one of only 3 factions listed. Sisters also were the stars of the trailer. Finally, I think GW probably wants to buck the sister's curse. Releasing a sisters dex early would certainly displace a lot of the assumptions that get thrown around. And there won't be many new models, so it could be done quickly.

When the guard dex comes, I think it's going to be huge. I think Elysians will be added in plastic, Cadians and Catachans will get resculpted, I think they'll add an aircraft or two (they've got a transport, so they need a fighter and a bomber). This is why I don't think we're getting the guard dex this year.

As for Drukari: yes, I'm happy about plastic Lelith, just like I was happy about plastic Drazhar. However, I do think DE need more than that on the model front. If they added Trueborn and Bloodbrides, they'd have the potential for 2w models, which would help balance against the new 2w marine. In light of Chapterhouse though, they can't do it without releasing models.

My sincere hope is that this edition last longer than three years and that everyone gets a dex- or a supplement.

Do you think GW would release 2 SoB codexes in under a year?

tulun wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:


Yet another reason why pushing out these changes without codexes is a bad idea.

Horrible idea. These weapon changes should come out at roughly the same time...

As it is, I think certain army matchups will get really atrocious. Just better weapons, probably without much point adjustments? I wonder if you'll just see outright refusal to play an army like SM spiking until other armies get their new codex.

- MM was pretty useless not its probably a bit too good, but cost goes up. It isn't impossible for it to go up even more, too.
- No one was taking HOGC.
- Heavy Bolter only gets better against multi-wound models and subsequently is more expensive.
- There was not a large saturation of power weapons previously.
- No one took flamers prior

Flamers are the thing that is scary and only really on aggressors, but we were already facing them at 11" and we have no idea if the +3" trait stays yet.

 Ordana wrote:
Do you think GW would release 2 SoB codexes in under a year?

Do you think they wouldn't, given that 9E wasn't announced until after?

If all they really have to do is add Crusade stuff and some stuff that didn't get put into the codex for various reasons(possibly production related, possibly for the purposes of selling more later)? Totally.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Do you think GW would release 2 SoB codexes in under a year?

Do you think they wouldn't, given that 9E wasn't announced until after?

If all they really have to do is add Crusade stuff and some stuff that didn't get put into the codex for various reasons(possibly production related, possibly for the purposes of selling more later)? Totally.

I am expecting a new Sisters book in either 2020 or early 2021. They've been a major marketing push in the new edition.

That said, I would be unsurprised if it's a relatively small update - adding the profiles for the Palatine, Stern and Kyganil, updating the weapons profiles and points, adding the Crusade rules and faction-specific secondary objectives and maybe a few additional strategems.

 Kanluwen wrote:

And that actually is one of the most likely reasons we'll see resculpted basic infantry. Adding something new that encourages people to buy them up. I don't think we'll see three ranges, but I definitely think we'll see a refresh of the Cadians and Catachans at least. They did Fire Warriors last edition and didn't change much beyond adding a new weapon type and the turret.

A minor addition like that (like some new special weapon with auto-include rules) to the infantry box, I can see. A complete rescuplt in the vein of SoB though? Not really. There are simply too many easy plastic alternatives for basic human soldiers that cost a fraction of GW Guard these days. Same thing with the in-lore variety. An Intercessor looks like a GW Intercessor and a Fire Warrior looks like a GW Fire Warrior, regardless of paintjob. A Guardsman can look like anything, and Guard players preferences will vary accordingly. If they re-do Cadians, the people who wanted longcoat Space Nazis will be disinterested, if they do longcoat Space Nazis, the people who wanted better looking Catachans will be disinterested and so on.

Scions have a much more thematically coherent and GW-exclusive look (even though personally, I am using Mantic GCPS as Scions), which is why I think that if anything, GW will focus more on them for any potential new Guard releases.

Sisters should be no where near top of list for needed codexes.

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters should be no where near top of list for needed codexes.

Nor Guard. Both get all the shiny new weapons on Space Marine Codex day and were in good-to-excellent state already.

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters should be no where near top of list for needed codexes.

They are as much as anyone else if the big fears about even more OP Space Marines turn out to be true, and as sad as that sounds i wouldn't put it past GW to make them true.

 Esmer wrote:

A minor addition like that (like some new special weapon with auto-include rules) to the infantry box, I can see. A complete rescuplt in the vein of SoB though? Not really. There are simply too many easy plastic alternatives for basic human soldiers that cost a fraction of GW Guard these days. Same thing with the in-lore variety. An Intercessor looks like a GW Intercessor and a Fire Warrior looks like a GW Fire Warrior, regardless of paintjob. A Guardsman can look like anything, and Guard players preferences will vary accordingly. If they re-do Cadians, the people who wanted longcoat Space Nazis will be disinterested, if they do longcoat Space Nazis, the people who wanted better looking Catachans will be disinterested and so on.

Bluntly, that's one of the issues that GW will face no matter what by keeping 'Infantry Squads' as the same thing across all the Regiments. Them redoing Regiments is likely, but that wouldn't be all that would happen if it's the case.

Scions have a much more thematically coherent and GW-exclusive look (even though personally, I am using Mantic GCPS as Scions), which is why I think that if anything, GW will focus more on them for any potential new Guard releases.

Ehh...one of the big things to consider is that Guard are just such a terribly differentiated range.

A Catachan has the same qualities as a Cadian or a Vostroyan or a Steel Legionnaire, yet the visual language is wildly different.

If they do what I've been thinking they have been planning(and Jes Goodwin kinda/sorta hints at it in the Mechanicus design video they had a few months ago but I very much might be reading into it what I want), the Guard is in for a massive change to how the infantry stuff is presented and any resculpts would be a part of that.

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters should be no where near top of list for needed codexes.

Your need is not the same as GW's Need.

Marines and Necrons only "needed" a new Codex due to huge pile of new models - if they have want to release A codex alongside each new Commander then its likely Sisters get early dex to also incorporate Stern and sort out remaining rules issues

Also I think they are now the only faction without a name chart!!!

Personally I would love to see a Dark Eldar big release.

I'm not saying guard need a new dex more than others; I'm saying they need love in the modelling, and it shouldn't surprise anyone that models and codexes go hand in hand.

And certainly sisters don't need a new dex as much as others, but since they don't need a whole lot of updates to the range, it would be super easy to release a sisters dex which is why I think it might happen.

We will get codexes for factions that need few additions to the range faster than we will for factions that need a lot.

Also, factions that need range updates will get a dex, even if their current dex is fine, because as previously noted, dexes and range refreshes go together.

And finally, the fact that all dexes are going to include Crusade content, means EVERY faction needs a dex, otherwise they will be left out of the full Crusade experience.

As for Inquisition, signs are getting stronger that there will be an Imperial agents dex; I don't expect it anytime soon, but the return of Imperial Agents as a Keyword is a pretty good indicator.

Ynnari are a wild card. I suspect they'll get a dex that is akin to the harlequin dex- not a whole lot of units, but a solid foundation to be built upon- a bespoke aspect shrine, an exodite unit or two and a corsair unit or two. WD dexes for using the exodites and corsairs as their own armies would follow. But this is pure speculation, which is why I say they're a wild card.

The last thing to consider is whether there will be new factions. I suspect Emperor's Children and World Eaters, and yes, possibly squats. I do think there is potential for CSM to go dex + supplement.

I like the dex + supplement model, because it makes updating things much easier.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


Source?

Them getting steadily top-5 and even top-3 spots in tournaments?

In edition where tough troops with midrange guns is king DG is in good position. They have all the tools needed. They can go to objective and have chance to actually survive there without some serious firepower. Unlike say grots, IG troopers etc which go away when somebody says "boo" so you need to swarm the objective with multiple units to survive there.

That's not a source. A source would be a link to an actual winning lists. The only top 4 placement I'm aware of was a second place running an illegal list.

So if you have more sources, I'll gladly take them.

I think its more likely to get a Codex and big new model range for Traitor guard than Imperial Guard - still have the stuff they did for Blackstone Fortress to start it off

Guard might get a new plastic regiment but not convinced.

Funny you say that, as AdMech is what Goodwin called "the start of rescaling normal humans"...with Genestealer Cultists right after and a shoutout given to the Blackstone Fortress stuff too.

With the latest announcement, I can see that we'll get/need codexes for:

Space Marines (all flavors)
Grey Knights
Necrons
Admech

That should easily cover this year, and I honestly hope we could then see an Eldar codex with a big update to aspects (hopefully with all-new models) in the early part of next year.

Beyond that, I'm not really sure what else needs an update except for a couple of weapon tweaks here and there.

I think the codex release order will be based on which armies are going to be getting new models. The factions not getting new models will probably be getting their codexes first. I think they will be fairly quick about it since crusade and secondary objectives are going to be in the new codexes.

I think if you live in the US, it really doesn't fething matter what order the codexes come out in. It's going to be at least a year before big events are going to be safe to travel to and by that time the vast majority of the books should have dropped.

I think it's going to be great if the orks get some nice new models and a good book sooner rather than later. One would hope that the upping of granularity is covered quickly, will suck to have armies left behind without/a late codex

Would be nice to see the mekboy workshop/sacristan forgeshrine type units become playable as well

One thing for sure is that I'm excited for it

 Stormonu wrote:
With the latest announcement, I can see that we'll get/need codexes for:

Space Marines (all flavors)
Grey Knights
Necrons
Admech

That should easily cover this year, and I honestly hope we could then see an Eldar codex with a big update to aspects (hopefully with all-new models) in the early part of next year.

Beyond that, I'm not really sure what else needs an update except for a couple of weapon tweaks here and there.

Necrons and Marines are October.

GK and Ad Mech don't particularly stand out to me. What's the reasoning there?

gunchar wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters should be no where near top of list for needed codexes.

They are as much as anyone else if the big fears about even more OP Space Marines turn out to be true, and as sad as that sounds i wouldn't put it past GW to make them true.

Sisters with updated weapons are more than capable of handling new marines. The codex is solid, it really doesn't need updating for at least another year.

Besides Marines and Necrons, we will be seeing Deathwatch early (already stated....although the comment in the warcom reveals about being early could simply refer to them being in main codex). I would think chaos wouldn't be too far behind. I expect the rest of the year will see small model releases with codex, not an entire line revamp, so no Eldar this year. We'll definitely get at least 2 marine supplements (DW, DA, BA or SW) before year's end.

ERJAK wrote:
I think if you live in the US, it really doesn't fething matter what order the codexes come out in. It's going to be at least a year before big events are going to be safe to travel to and by that time the vast majority of the books should have dropped.

I feel your pain brother.

If you have friends and family you can play with, you can play safely in your home or theirs. If your friends and family don't have models but might be interested in playing, and you happen to collect more than one army, you could probably talk someone into trying it out using your models.

It is exactly why I collect models from so many factions.

Two things can come of this: first, you might discover that you actually prefer casual beerhammer/ garagehammer with friends to meta-chasing, ultra competitive play with total strangers, or second, you'll find that one or two of your friends like the game enough to buy their own armies, and then when tournaments are on again, you can introduce your proteges to that side of the hobby too.

Take care.

Voss wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
With the latest announcement, I can see that we'll get/need codexes for:

Space Marines (all flavors)
Grey Knights
Necrons
Admech

That should easily cover this year, and I honestly hope we could then see an Eldar codex with a big update to aspects (hopefully with all-new models) in the early part of next year.

Beyond that, I'm not really sure what else needs an update except for a couple of weapon tweaks here and there.

Necrons and Marines are October.

GK and Ad Mech don't particularly stand out to me. What's the reasoning there?

can't speak for GKs, but AdMech just had a massive range update, it stands to reason GW will want to unify that all in a codex sooner rather then later.

 Mr Morden wrote:
They may well release the new codexes with the new lesser commanders we know are coming for a number of factions.

It will be, as always model driven.

I wouldn't say it's always model driven. Several in 8th didn't come with anything. But I do think you're right, the factions with new "Lieutenant" models are likely. Except I have doubts SoB would get a new codex super soon - wouldn't bet against one later next year though.

I feel like Ad Mech will be soon, given they've had a ton of new models since the Codex.

rbstr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
They may well release the new codexes with the new lesser commanders we know are coming for a number of factions.

It will be, as always model driven.

I wouldn't say it's always model driven. Several in 8th didn't come with anything. But I do think you're right, the factions with new "Lieutenant" models are likely. Except I have doubts SoB would get a new codex super soon - wouldn't bet against one later next year though.

I feel like Ad Mech will be soon, given they've had a ton of new models since the Codex.

8th edition though, it is argued is an exception to this as every army now needed a codex, and quick.

however several armies have even without a major release gotten new codices in the past. Grey Knights in 7th edition comes to mind

On the one hand, Dark Eldar are in dire need of some help.

On the other hand, new Dark Eldar codices apparently only exist to strip further units and wargear from an already anaemic faction, and that's hardly the help they're in need of right now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Where did they say not every faction would get a new codex?

Because nothing I've seen, read, or listened to has suggested such a thing from them. The only four we know of(Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels) aren't "losing" their codices either. They've always been in a crummy spot with the update cycle of Marine books where if the core one gets updated, they miss out on stuff.

That's not the case anymore. Pretending that this means "some factions won't get codices" is downright disingenuous though.

They said they have reviewed every stat line and are changing them where appropriate. I’d be shocked if the increase in wounds for old marines wasn’t part of a systematic change in stats. So my logic says new codexes

 vipoid wrote:
On the one hand, Dark Eldar are in dire need of some help.

On the other hand, new Dark Eldar codices apparently only exist to strip further units and wargear from an already anaemic faction, and that's hardly the help they're in need of right now.

How many more HQ and elites can you loose :" Gw probably.

Also R&H seemingly won't get anything and probably need an update most pressingly...

CWE need mostly a Facelift in terms of more modern aspects, allbeit some of the metal ones have actually kept up decently design wise that is and considering that you can for 15 banshees buy 1.5 starter boxes of other factions i don't think an aspect update would be good...

BrianDavion wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
With the latest announcement, I can see that we'll get/need codexes for:

Space Marines (all flavors)
Grey Knights
Necrons
Admech

That should easily cover this year, and I honestly hope we could then see an Eldar codex with a big update to aspects (hopefully with all-new models) in the early part of next year.

Beyond that, I'm not really sure what else needs an update except for a couple of weapon tweaks here and there.

Necrons and Marines are October.

GK and Ad Mech don't particularly stand out to me. What's the reasoning there?

can't speak for GKs, but AdMech just had a massive range update, it stands to reason GW will want to unify that all in a codex sooner rather then later.

Good point and very likely then one of the initial coexes.