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With Marines now getting +30% range, double wounds and extra AP in melee, what does your faction need to keep up in this cold war arms race?

I'll start.

Orks:
Green means wez good at FIGHTIN' All < ORK > and < GRETCHIN > Units gain +1 to wound rolls on the turn they charge or intervene
Made o' tuff stuff All units in the ORK codex gain +1 toughness

Please, no special rules overload. Just better base stats for the most part.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Please, no special rules overload. Just better base stats for the most part.

Agreed, and that seems to be what they're doing. Finally csm may have units that can function without stacking buffs on them. I'm looking forward to that.

I'd like my Carnifexes to be tougher than Rhinos.

Thanks.

I'd like my Nurgle Daemons to have shooting in any appreciable amount.

I want my JET PACKs to do something, anything again.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Please, no special rules overload. Just better base stats for the most part.

Agreed, and that seems to be what they're doing. Finally csm may have units that can function without stacking buffs on them. I'm looking forward to that.

I'm not so convinced of that. They're be more durable, but the point costs will go up too (as we see with tacticals going from 15 to 18). You'll have fewer bodies and less firepower.
You may well find that you want even more buffs so they can accomplish more than plinking 1.1 W off a marine for ~85 points.

----

For necrons: I'll try to avoid special rules overload, but Reanimation Protocols has to be rehauled. I don't care if its just an 'ignore wounds' mechanic, but give then sheer volume of firepower (which is going up even more between rules changes and new kits), the 'you don't get anything if the unit is wiped out' just can't work.

The specifics don't matter, but resilience has to be increased regardless of the state of the unit.

Tyranids need more ability to actually kill things and some access to more survivable units, whether that means increase wounds, better armor save, synapse providing fnp, higher toughness, etc it doesn’t matter.

In general I’d like to see significantly stronger synapse buffs. I’m thinking chapter master rerolls at a minimum. I’ve also always found shadow in the warp to be lackluster and would love for it to be more utilized. Significant leadership penalties, psychic tests on 3D6 take the lowest, or something like that.

Tyranid monsters like the toxicrene need a complete rework to be anything but complete garbage.

For more baseless wishlisting, I would also like to see scaling buffs for the horde units, increasing in strength at 11+ models, then 21+ models to encourage taking full 30 man gaunt blobs. Zoanthropes and venomthropes should also have a linear scaling from 1-2 in a unit, 3-4, then 5-6. Currently 3 Zoanthropes are rather gak but then nearly double in effectiveness and efficiency by going to 4 models.

I want Jain Zar to have Ragnar Blackmane's stats / abilities.

I want aspect warriors to be better equipped for their given roles.

And I want to be more encouraged to play a craftworld that doesn't take expert crafters.

dark eldar need alot of help now. Every imperial faction now have cheaper dissies than we do, and that was our only good weapon we have. we can only stick them on vehicles they can appear in any marine squad

splinter weapons need some serious buffs to justify our point cost in light of the w2 buff to marines and 30" bolters. i dont know if they need to go to 2+ poison or 3+ with ap but they need some serious work.

Nothing, I just need GW to stop inflating space marine stats for no real reason.

Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Nothing, I just need GW to stop inflating space marine stats for no real reason.

It's not "no real reason". This is 100% intentional, planned, and completely in line with how Marines will develop over the next few years.

This isn't random. This is calculated.

I guess I should have said "no good reason."

GW has a reason. From their perspective it's very good, and the cynic in me applauds them for it.

It's so damned clever.

Lower the cost of Sonic Guns, and I'd feel pretty happy with my Noise Marines.. get em back down to 2-3 points.

Competitive PL and pts costs, what every faction needs to compete, a Brimstone Horror despite its diminutive stature can be amazing at 2 pts and useless at 5, a mighty Warhound titan can be amazing at 400 pts and useless at 2000.

Rules should only be changed to further a narrative, not to increase balance (with the exception where options cost 0 pts then the rules have to be changed because changing pts is not an option).

Tyranids need to get a lot tougher to wound because they for sure will not get better armour saves.

 carldooley wrote:
I want my JET PACKs to do something, anything again.

If it granted fall back and shoot... Tau would be back on the map.

Voss wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Please, no special rules overload. Just better base stats for the most part.

Agreed, and that seems to be what they're doing. Finally csm may have units that can function without stacking buffs on them. I'm looking forward to that.

I'm not so convinced of that. They're be more durable, but the point costs will go up too (as we see with tacticals going from 15 to 18). You'll have fewer bodies and less firepower.
You may well find that you want even more buffs so they can accomplish more than plinking 1.1 W off a marine for ~85 points.

----

For necrons: I'll try to avoid special rules overload, but Reanimation Protocols has to be rehauled. I don't care if its just an 'ignore wounds' mechanic, but give then sheer volume of firepower (which is going up even more between rules changes and new kits), the 'you don't get anything if the unit is wiped out' just can't work.

The specifics don't matter, but resilience has to be increased regardless of the state of the unit.

3 points for +6" range, +1 wound and -1 ap in combat. That kind of feels like really cheap, especially when Marines were already the top tier army.
They won't have that many less bodies.

 warmaster21 wrote:
splinter weapons need some serious buffs to justify our point cost in light of the w2 buff to marines and 30" bolters. i dont know if they need to go to 2+ poison or 3+ with ap but they need some serious work.

Extra mortal wound on a 5+ to replace poison?

I just want DE to get back some of its old heroes and unit special rules. Reavers with Impact hits along with its normal melee would double its damage (actually moreso) but in a good fun way for the game, and rework traits/HQ's

Drukhari

- Subfactions can mix and share buffs again
- HQ's auras work in and out of vehicles
- HQ on Bike, the Baron, Vect, etc..
- Special added rules like Tides, Sacred Rite, etc.. Example: "All poison weapons for X datasheets gain +1 to the wound roles", "Heavy weapons are treated as assault" etc.. a set for 6 different ones you can pick from to further specialize your army
- Bring back many of the special rules for DE units, Reavers impact hits, Beasts as 1 unit and cheaper horde type, Court as real body guards (Allows LoS! only for Archons)
- Make some gear more useful and unique, Example Shock Prows "If a vehicles with this charges an enemy Vehicle, that vehicle can not move the next turn"
- Make poison better in general, Splinter cannons SHOULD have at least -1ap as well

The army over all should be able to specialize better and hit harder but remain glass, they are the masters of Raiding, they should act like it.

Death Guard should be pretty fine with all the new weapons and plague marines going to 2 wounds. Outside of that, getting obliterators, venom crawlers, master of possession, greater possessed and vindicators would be nice.
Oh, and it would be really nice if summoning didn't suck, for example if you could have the daemons appear anywhere on the board.

Open topped should allow units to charge from transports after moving, all factions. Something like disembarking within 3" and then make a charge roll so the speed of the transport actually matters for getting into combat.
KFF is "within" instead of "wholly within"
MA big mek with tellyporta blasta should be able to tellyport himself like the SJD does
Cybork should go back to being a 5++ save.
Snakebites and mek tools ignore damage on 5+
All ork units (except gretchin, of course) should get +1 A for being 11 or more models
'ard boyz is a 4+ save
PKs deal d6 damage
Bike units get +1W and their exhaust cloud back
Da Killa klaw relic can replace the snagga klaw
Kustom job/relic to update SAG into SSAG again
Boomdakka snazzwagon' mek speshul is S6 AP-2 D2 to properly reflect it being the snazz gun buggy. The kustom job's strength improved accordingly.
Squiglaunchas get reworked into bitey squig having the profile of boom squigs and boom squigs get the same profile as bomb squigs (assault 1/2 S8 Ap-2 d6 damage)
Wreckin' ball and snagga klaw do additional attacks
Double shots for all wagon turret weapons
Burnas get 12" range and d6 shots. Melee profile is D2
Meks can repair vehicles while embarked
Boom Bomb on blitza bommer can only hit vehicles and monsters and is "roll a d6, on a 2+ the target suffers that many MWs"
Bubble chukka can hit units not in LoS
Mek Workshop can be used without skipping your turn
Goff rokka, gukk and skull nobz get proper matched play entries
Bad moons improves dakka³ to 5+ instead of re-rolls
Blood axes can uses their stratagem to deep strike anywhere outside of engagement range as long as they are fully within area terrain
Freebootas get +1 to BS/WS instead of +1 to hit

When you kill a stompa it splits into three nauts, which each split into three dreads, which then split into three kanz. At least that would be worth that many points.

I would say Genestealer Cults primarily need points cuts rather than buffs, especially to some units nerfed to the point of irrelevance recently.

Genestealers themselves probably need more damage output in CC though.

GSC rules and mechanics aren't bad at all (besides splitting the units into 5 distinct groups in terms of army-wide rules:
- cult people (neophytes, acolytes, metamorphs, aberrant and bikes)
- cult vehicles (trucks, buggies)
- star children (purestrains, patriarch)
- cult brood brothers (infantry squads, HWTs, chimeras, LRs, sentinels)
- non-cult brood brothers (most of the AM codex)

They only need point reductions on some units and making cult people + cult vehicles + cult brood brothers a single group that can share transports, abilities, and cult creeds.

 Jidmah wrote:
Death Guard should be pretty fine with all the new weapons and plague marines going to 2 wounds. Outside of that, getting obliterators, venom crawlers, master of possession, greater possessed and vindicators would be nice.
Oh, and it would be really nice if summoning didn't suck, for example if you could have the daemons appear anywhere on the board.

Open topped should allow units to charge from transports after moving, all factions. Something like disembarking within 3" and then make a charge roll so the speed of the transport actually matters for getting into combat.
KFF is "within" instead of "wholly within"
MA big mek with tellyporta blasta should be able to tellyport himself like the SJD does
Cybork should go back to being a 5++ save.
Snakebites and mek tools ignore damage on 5+
All ork units (except gretchin, of course) should get +1 A for being 11 or more models
'ard boyz is a 4+ save
PKs deal d6 damage
Bike units get +1W and their exhaust cloud back
Da Killa klaw relic can replace the snagga klaw
Kustom job/relic to update SAG into SSAG again
Boomdakka snazzwagon' mek speshul is S6 AP-2 D2 to properly reflect it being the snazz gun buggy. The kustom job's strength improved accordingly.
Squiglaunchas get reworked into bitey squig having the profile of boom squigs and boom squigs get the same profile as bomb squigs (assault 1/2 S8 Ap-2 d6 damage)
Wreckin' ball and snagga klaw do additional attacks
Double shots for all wagon turret weapons
Burnas get 12" range and d6 shots. Melee profile is D2
Meks can repair vehicles while embarked
Boom Bomb on blitza bommer can only hit vehicles and monsters and is "roll a d6, on a 2+ the target suffers that many MWs"
Bubble chukka can hit units not in LoS
Mek Workshop can be used without skipping your turn
Goff rokka, gukk and skull nobz get proper matched play entries
Bad moons improves dakka³ to 5+ instead of re-rolls
Blood axes can uses their stratagem to deep strike anywhere outside of engagement range as long as they are fully within area terrain
Freebootas get +1 to BS/WS instead of +1 to hit

When you kill a stompa it splits into three nauts, which each split into three dreads, which then split into three kanz. At least that would be worth that many points.

gak id be happy with only a few of those (exhaust cloud, Killa Klaw -> Snagga, PK damage, KFF change and moving from 20+ to 11+ for green tide)

No. Cult Brood Brothers cannot be a single group. Because then they literally are Guard +1.

There's a reason why they worded that bit the way they did. GSC Brood Brothers were, RAW, able to issue Orders to units that Guard can't even Order(Ogryn/Bullgryn and Ratlings) or ignore requirements that Guard has to meet(Tempestus can't Order <Regiment> and <Regiment> can't Order Tempestus)...which was kinda ridiculous.

 Jidmah wrote:
Death Guard should be pretty fine with all the new weapons and plague marines going to 2 wounds. Outside of that, getting obliterators, venom crawlers, master of possession, greater possessed and vindicators would be nice.
Oh, and it would be really nice if summoning didn't suck, for example if you could have the daemons appear anywhere on the board.

Open topped should allow units to charge from transports after moving, all factions. Something like disembarking within 3" and then make a charge roll so the speed of the transport actually matters for getting into combat.
KFF is "within" instead of "wholly within"
MA big mek with tellyporta blasta should be able to tellyport himself like the SJD does
Cybork should go back to being a 5++ save.
Snakebites and mek tools ignore damage on 5+
All ork units (except gretchin, of course) should get +1 A for being 11 or more models
'ard boyz is a 4+ save
PKs deal d6 damage
Bike units get +1W and their exhaust cloud back
Da Killa klaw relic can replace the snagga klaw
Kustom job/relic to update SAG into SSAG again
Boomdakka snazzwagon' mek speshul is S6 AP-2 D2 to properly reflect it being the snazz gun buggy. The kustom job's strength improved accordingly.
Squiglaunchas get reworked into bitey squig having the profile of boom squigs and boom squigs get the same profile as bomb squigs (assault 1/2 S8 Ap-2 d6 damage)
Wreckin' ball and snagga klaw do additional attacks
Double shots for all wagon turret weapons
Burnas get 12" range and d6 shots. Melee profile is D2
Meks can repair vehicles while embarked
Boom Bomb on blitza bommer can only hit vehicles and monsters and is "roll a d6, on a 2+ the target suffers that many MWs"
Bubble chukka can hit units not in LoS
Mek Workshop can be used without skipping your turn
Goff rokka, gukk and skull nobz get proper matched play entries
Bad moons improves dakka³ to 5+ instead of re-rolls
Blood axes can uses their stratagem to deep strike anywhere outside of engagement range as long as they are fully within area terrain
Freebootas get +1 to BS/WS instead of +1 to hit

When you kill a stompa it splits into three nauts, which each split into three dreads, which then split into three kanz. At least that would be worth that many points.

I agree with most of the suggested.
For KFF I would rather have wholly within and provide the inv save all the time.

I've genuinely been wondering if KFF might end up being part of a Structure for Orks or something in 9E. It would be a great way to add a parallel to the Void Shield Generator and Tidewall.

 The Phazer wrote:
I would say Genestealer Cults primarily need points cuts rather than buffs, especially to some units nerfed to the point of irrelevance recently.

Genestealers themselves probably need more damage output in CC though.

There is not a lot of room for points reductions for things like Neophyte/Acolytes tho. Aside from Abbarrents being to expensive I don't think points is the problem. (and Genestealers)

GSC suffers a lot from buffs to other armies, Shock assault means that marines will destroy you if they touch you, even with a basic squad.

I honestly don't know how I would 'help' GSC, they are already cheap, upping their lethality feels ridiculous when compared to other armies?

The obvious step to me is to not buff Marines into the stratosphere to begin with, because it causes a cascade effect through the game.

Not sure if it would be a buff, but I personally would love Stormtroopers for the regular Guard, maybe for an extra point or two per model or at the cost of Deep Strike. Basically, a way to fit Scions/Stormtroopers into regular Guard detachments and a way to get them to take orders from Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders.

Not sure how much it would actually help, but it's something.