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 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The "normal rules" don't say anything of the sort. A lot of specific rules have a 9" bubble, but the Custodes stratagem does not. Thus the AL stratagem doesn't affect it.

This is of course false.

90+% of units that have a deep strike type of ability have to be set up more thna 9 inches away, thus the overwhelming majority = the normal in this case.

Can you show me, without using the word "context", any instance of the term 9" on the Custodes stratagem for the AL stratagem to replace with 12"?

I have sent Games Workshop an email which I took some time on to make sure everything was worded correctly. Hopefully clarification will come- another YMDC turned into they make the call!

Please lets calm down and not let this descend into another RAW interpretation vs RAW interpretation argument.

It's a very tricky interaction with some blurry wording that can be taken in a number of ways- agree to disagree?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The "normal rules" don't say anything of the sort. A lot of specific rules have a 9" bubble, but the Custodes stratagem does not. Thus the AL stratagem doesn't affect it.

This is of course false.

90+% of units that have a deep strike type of ability have to be set up more thna 9 inches away, thus the overwhelming majority = the normal in this case.

P.S. I am allpying the rule as written.

If there was a distance stated in the Reinforcement rules, that would be the "normal rules". There is not such statement. Therefore, the most common distance of 9" is not the normal rule. It is just the most common distance.

The lack of the 9" distance reference or Omni-Scramblers makes that rule definitive. The existence in the AL Stratagem makes that change conditional.

And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I have sent Games Workshop an email which I took some time on to make sure everything was worded correctly. Hopefully clarification will come- another YMDC turned into they make the call!

Please lets calm down and not let this descend into another RAW interpretation vs RAW interpretation argument.

It's a very tricky interaction with some blurry wording that can be taken in a number of ways- agree to disagree?

Yeah there is no 100% clear answer. It comes down to whether you think "rather than 9"" is a limiting clause or whether it's just providing context. Grammatically in English it doesn't have to be a limiting clause, but it can be. So there's no way to know for sure whether it is in this case. You get into speculation like "well if it isn't, it means nothing, and everything should be mean something" or "omni-scramblers doesn't have this wording, so it must be significant" but then you see that lots of GW rules have meaningless surplusage in them that doesn't mean anything and lots of rules that are functionly identical have slightly different wording, so while that could be true, it isn't necessarily true either. And then you have a FAQ that explicitly says it resolves a question as to "all" stratagems that increase the minimum range with the answer that they "always" trump, but then you can try to say this isn't covered by that FAQ because the "rather than 9"'' makes it different from the example, but again the counter to that is it's just an example and the FAQ says it applies to all such rules.

I have come around to the view that it just needs a FAQ, the meaning of the words employed are ambiguous even as to what they mean RAW, much less RAI.

The shadowspear FAQ applies, and the AL stratagem trumps the custodes one.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

Except there is as the mojority of units are 9"

That is what makes it normal, as most units that have deep strike type of abilities have the 9" rule.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

Except there is as the mojority of units are 9"

That is what makes it normal, as most units that have deep strike type of abilities have the 9" rule.

Normal and Majority are not synonymous.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

Except there is as the mojority of units are 9"

That is what makes it normal, as most units that have deep strike type of abilities have the 9" rule.

Normal and Majority are not synonymous.

Except Normal means conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. If something happens the majority of the time, as in 85% or 90% of the time, that is typical, and as such normal.

When I ask "How far from enemy models do I need to deploy my unit when they arrive as reinforcements?" the answer is not "9 inches" it's "look at the datasheet/rule that is allowing them to do so".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
When I ask "How far from enemy models do I need to deploy my unit when they arrive as reinforcements?" the answer is not "9 inches" it's "look at the datasheet/rule that is allowing them to do so".

When I ask "How far from enemy models do I need to deploy my unit when they arrive as reinforcements?" the answer is "Usually 9 inches"

Don't you mean "usually 9 inches but check your rule to be sure"?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
When I ask "How far from enemy models do I need to deploy my unit when they arrive as reinforcements?" the answer is not "9 inches" it's "look at the datasheet/rule that is allowing them to do so".

When I ask "How far from enemy models do I need to deploy my unit when they arrive as reinforcements?" the answer is "Usually 9 inches"

Yes, it is "usually". That means that there are some abilities that aren't 9", and the AL stratagem doesn't affect those abilities.

 alextroy wrote:
Don't you mean "usually 9 inches but check your rule to be sure"?

That is always the caveat with any rule, as there can be a few exceptions.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

Except there is as the mojority of units are 9"

That is what makes it normal, as most units that have deep strike type of abilities have the 9" rule.

Normal and Majority are not synonymous.

Except Normal means conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. If something happens the majority of the time, as in 85% or 90% of the time, that is typical, and as such normal.

Exactly!

The normal distance for deep strike type abilities is 9”.

The most common distance for deep strike abilities is 9”.

It’s usually 9” for deep strike type abilities.

All true, mean the same thing here, and are valid. Daft thing to split hairs over as they’re simply different ways of expressing the exact same thing. Honestly, BCB, this is a bizarre molehill to choose to die on.

And the very words usually, most common and normal imply other things exist, so no caveat of “but check blah blah” is needed. It’s implied by the words chosen. Such a very silly debate.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
And let's not forget units like the Monolith and Spore Mines have a 12" bubble, so there is no set rule for the norm to be 9".

Except there is as the mojority of units are 9"

That is what makes it normal, as most units that have deep strike type of abilities have the 9" rule.

Normal and Majority are not synonymous.

Except Normal means conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected. If something happens the majority of the time, as in 85% or 90% of the time, that is typical, and as such normal.

Exactly!

The normal distance for deep strike type abilities is 9”.

The most common distance for deep strike abilities is 9”.

It’s usually 9” for deep strike type abilities.

All true, mean the same thing here, and are valid. Daft thing to split hairs over as they’re simply different ways of expressing the exact same thing. Honestly, BCB, this is a bizarre molehill to choose to die on.

And the very words usually, most common and normal imply other things exist, so no caveat of “but check blah blah” is needed. It’s implied by the words chosen. Such a very silly debate.

Indeed. Especially given that the stratagem only matters to increase a 9" to a 12".

Show me where I can apply the "rather than 9"" portion of the AL stratagem to the AC stratagem.

Just show me where the term 9" is in the AC stratagem, and I will gladly concede the AL stratagem works. It's two characters, it should be easy to point out.