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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 04:33:07
Subject: Re:Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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VladimirHerzog wrote:
seems like quite the conclusion honestly. Just because they add terrain in the most expensive starter set and reduce table size doesn't make me think theres gonna be fixed layouts anytime soon.
And the assymetrical tables part was a second point.
Don't the tournaments already tell players where to place terrain? They're absorbing the tournament rules, and now standardizing terrain via startersets and board sales. I'll look later but I think 2nd Ed told you where to place the cardstock terrain that came with the box.,
Automatically Appended Next Post: yukishiro1 wrote:The only way asymmetric tables work in competitive play is if the person who chooses the table side gives up the choice of first turn. GW very clearly rejected ITC's approach to choosing who goes first in favor of the random roll after deployment, so I don't see how asymmetric tables could possibly work in competitive play.
Or Bundling table edge with turn selection both. If you chose Side A you are the "attacker" and go first, if you chose Side B you are the "defender" and go second. Automatically Appended Next Post: VladimirHerzog wrote:yukishiro1 wrote:The only way asymmetric tables work in competitive play is if the person who chooses the table side gives up the choice of first turn. GW very clearly rejected ITC's approach to choosing who goes first in favor of the random roll after deployment, so I don't see how asymmetric tables could possibly work in competitive play.
I'm mostly talking about non-competitive play being influenced by the competitive play.
Most of the popular batreps on youtube have a very "competitive" essence to them, with tables being mostly symmetrical (the outliers being SS88 and WintersSEO).
This makes it so that when playing casual games, people automatically make a symmetrical table (im guilty of that too) to reflect what they are used to seeing.
I agree that its more balanced to remove the map itself from the equation but i think its an interesting concept to explore.
The other reason people make symetrical tables is so they won't get hosed too hard if they don't get first choice on table edge. Automatically Appended Next Post: yukishiro1 wrote:
As a general rule of thumb, anything over about 200ish points for a single model is getting into dangerous territory...
Why? What difference does it make if it's a single model, or 10 models with the same number of wounds/toughness/etc? Lets say - for the sake of argument - 5 wraithguard have 16 T8 Wounds, put out roughly similar firepower, and run about 280 points. What difference does it make if the "unit" is 1 model or 5? The number of models has a fairly to barely minimal impact. Are you suggesting no unit over 200 points should be good, or just the single model ones?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/23 04:58:21
My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 06:23:50
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Insectum7 wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: Insectum7 wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote:
What about a 4++, 3 more wounds, 8 S8 AP-4 Dd6/ d6+2 within 12 multi-melta shots, a 2D3 LOS ignoring mortal wound spitting Soulburner Bombard, and the ability to eat things souls to regain wounds on a 5+ in cc?
What's the price tag on that?
Pricey, 380 PPM. Always remember the Spike Tax.
Oh that's not so bad at all, I was figuring it'd break 400. Interesting vehicle. Actually the 6 transport capacity combined with the short range on the Multimeltas is kind of a turnoff for me, but that seems like a pretty decent deal for a hefty linebreaker.
I'm definitely going to bring mine out of retirement and try it out once the new multi-melta rules are in effect. Load it up with some combi-plasma Chosen and go burn some Loyalist Dogs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 08:22:27
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm definitely going to bring mine out of retirement and try it out once the new multi-melta rules are in effect. Load it up with some combi-plasma Chosen and go burn some Loyalist Dogs.
Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/23 08:23:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 09:01:30
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Insectum7 wrote:Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
Which crusader can carry 12 multi meltas ??
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 11:30:58
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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p5freak wrote: Insectum7 wrote:Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
Which crusader can carry 12 multi meltas ??
The one with 3x5 men Dev squads embarked in it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 11:34:11
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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p5freak wrote: Insectum7 wrote:Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
Which crusader can carry 12 multi meltas ??
I think Insectum crammed three Devastator Squads inside.
450+ pts of passengers plus 300+ in Transport being better than a single 335pts model is kinda expected.
And while 3 of those MM guys can be buffed by their Sarge to hit better, all of them are still moving once they disembark, so most of the shots will be at 4+.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/23 11:35:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 13:28:50
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Insectum7 wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm definitely going to bring mine out of retirement and try it out once the new multi-melta rules are in effect. Load it up with some combi-plasma Chosen and go burn some Loyalist Dogs.
Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
Yes, nice! You love your Devastators don't you? Though you'd better not fluff the rolls and make sure to kill the Achilles, as if it's only grievously wounded it will be charging in after unloading its now less effective guns. Did I mention that hellforged vehicles WS gets better as they're bracketed? How does 5 S8 AP-3 D1 WS3 attacks on the charge eating the souls of anything it kills to regain wounds on a 5+ sound? Not to mention all those Chosen overcharging their plasma into those Devastator squads before charging in chainswords swinging. I like the way you think. That would be a fun fight.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 13:50:07
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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MinscS2 wrote:
Hmm, no, that's not the reason as they'd still be bad with a 5++ or even a 4++.
Very few weapons have AP-4 or AP-5. Tipycally the LR will still rolling 5+ or even 4+ against most of the anti tank weapons. Like it had an invuln, so lacking that invuln is actually pretty irrelevant. Invuln matters on vehicles like the Battlewagon which is a 4+ model, not on the 2+ LR.
I'm quite convinced that LR are good, and always have been throughout the entire 8th edition. Mine never really disappointed me, although I'd only consider a Crusader as a solid option among the LRs, codex ones at least.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/23 14:44:47
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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nekooni wrote:
I think Insectum crammed three Devastator Squads inside.
450+ pts of passengers plus 300+ in Transport being better than a single 335pts model is kinda expected.
And while 3 of those MM guys can be buffed by their Sarge to hit better, all of them are still moving once they disembark, so most of the shots will be at 4+.
Unless they're UM in Tac Doctrine, which is what I run but it feels dirty AF, haha.
Gadzilla666 79 wrote: Insectum7 wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm definitely going to bring mine out of retirement and try it out once the new multi-melta rules are in effect. Load it up with some combi-plasma Chosen and go burn some Loyalist Dogs.
Ah, but while a Achilles mounts 4 Multimeltas, a Crusader can carry 12, and three of them can fire twice at +1 to hit. Lol @ 30 Multimelta shots.
Probably not the smartest thing to do, but fun to point out.
Edit: Then stick a Multimelta on the Crusader for a total of 32.
Yes, nice! You love your Devastators don't you? Though you'd better not fluff the rolls and make sure to kill the Achilles, as if it's only grievously wounded it will be charging in after unloading its now less effective guns. Did I mention that hellforged vehicles WS gets better as they're bracketed? How does 5 S8 AP-3 D1 WS3 attacks on the charge eating the souls of anything it kills to regain wounds on a 5+ sound? Not to mention all those Chosen overcharging their plasma into those Devastator squads before charging in chainswords swinging. I like the way you think. That would be a fun fight.
Hehe, yeah it's a little ridiculous. Especially since I don't think I've used a Crusader since 3rd edition.  I like the standard Lascannon one the best.
I'm definitely someone who uses that carrying capacity though. Protecting troops, lowering drop counts, moving them around etc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 05:54:08
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Blackie wrote:
Very few weapons have AP-4 or AP-5. Tipycally the LR will still rolling 5+ or even 4+ against most of the anti tank weapons. Like it had an invuln, so lacking that invuln is actually pretty irrelevant. Invuln matters on vehicles like the Battlewagon which is a 4+ model, not on the 2+ LR.
I'm quite convinced that LR are good, and always have been throughout the entire 8th edition. Mine never really disappointed me, although I'd only consider a Crusader as a solid option among the LRs, codex ones at least.
You mean like Melta Weapons that appear to be the soup du jour of this edition's meta the way people are gushing over MM's going to 2 shots and planning Landspeeders, Attack Bikes, and ATVs?
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 07:38:14
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Breton wrote:
You mean like Melta Weapons that appear to be the soup du jour of this edition's meta the way people are gushing over MM's going to 2 shots and planning Landspeeders, Attack Bikes, and ATVs?
The same melta that is still a rumour, and no codex has it, yes. I understand it's overpowered and it will break vehicles but it's also extremely recent, while people complained about LRs durability since ages. And not everyone has those meltas. In fact the majority of super buffed melta platforms belongs to the same faction that can field LRs.
I may be biased because I can't accept playing imperium vs imperium though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 09:33:20
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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It's not a rumor, it's a leak. It will happen, we just don't know how much a MM will be points wise.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 09:41:05
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Fixture of Dakka
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If you have a MM at two shot in rules produced by GW, and then a guy from GW says something that only makes sense, if a devastator squads shots 8 times with its MM, then I think it stops being a rumor or a leak.
And saying the MM isn't 2 shot now, is like saying that snow isn't down yet, so there is no need to worry about winter.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 10:36:08
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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nekooni wrote:It's not a rumor, it's a leak. It will happen, we just don't know how much a MM will be points wise.
Yeah, rumour wasn't the correct word but that melta still doesn't exist at the moment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 11:45:38
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Blackie wrote:nekooni wrote:It's not a rumor, it's a leak. It will happen, we just don't know how much a MM will be points wise.
Yeah, rumour wasn't the correct word but that melta still doesn't exist at the moment.
True, and since we don't have points available we can't tell if it's broken or not. With GW a new MM could end up anywhere from 20 to 80 points, that's how bad they are at this.
And Noone will be able to convince me that MM are broken if they're more than 40 pts. 35-40 would be the most we should pay, and that would be pricing it for Salamanders specifically.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/25 11:47:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 12:19:08
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Xenomancers wrote:Why would the iron-bulwark specifically designed to transport them be less durable to anti tank weapons?
Why would the tank be less durable to anti-tank weapon than some infantry?
It's right there, in the name. Anti-tank.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 12:31:47
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I'd be surprised if they don't have the same price as lascannons.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 13:13:06
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Lascannons are currently 5 points cheaper, 15/20 vs 20/25.
Multimeltas gain better damage and become cheaper? Lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/25 13:30:51
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I actually have not noticed that. Pretty telling how awesome multi-meltas are without the new rule 25 seems ok for two shots at 24" though.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/25 13:31:38
7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/26 11:57:35
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Blackie wrote:Lascannons are currently 5 points cheaper, 15/20 vs 20/25.
Multimeltas gain better damage and become cheaper? Lol.
Better damage at 1/4 of the range, and max out at half the range. Someone earlier talked about throwing three squads in a crusader, but I don't think that's the play. 3 squads in 3 drop pods landing on Turn 1 9" from 1-3 armored targets could be the way to go. Dev Doctrine even makes them -5 AP
24 (or 30 with cherubs) shots, 12+ (15+) hits, 6+ (7.5) successful wound rolls - no armor saves at -5 means 6+ * 3.5 (rerollable)+ wounds = 21+ (25+) wounds vs T8 2+ on the alpha strike, and you've potentially got four corners, and three units in their deployment zone with a nasty 24" bite.
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/26 12:17:35
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Breton wrote:
Better damage at 1/4 of the range, and max out at half the range. Someone earlier talked about throwing three squads in a crusader, but I don't think that's the play. 3 squads in 3 drop pods landing on Turn 1 9" from 1-3 armored targets could be the way to go. Dev Doctrine even makes them -5 AP
How many points are those 3 devs in drop pods though? After their first turn of action they'll likely get crushed or tied up at the very least while pods are 200ish points of useless stuff once deployed. If they manage to kill a 285 points land raider and then they just die they don't sound like a solid option. Against armies with massed T5-6 vehicles or T7-8 with 5++ or 4++ like orks or drukhari they wouldn't even get their points back.
24W on a T8 vehicle means that they could barely destroy a 155 points Battlewagon with a 5++ given by a KFF or the Kustom Job. This assuming that all the meltas would fire within juciy range, which is unlikely.
I would never take more than a single pod of those devs, but at this point I'd just stick with Long Fangs and lascannons since no way I will buy any primaris.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/26 12:23:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/26 12:26:28
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Breton wrote: Blackie wrote:Lascannons are currently 5 points cheaper, 15/20 vs 20/25.
Multimeltas gain better damage and become cheaper? Lol.
Better damage at 1/4 of the range, and max out at half the range. Someone earlier talked about throwing three squads in a crusader, but I don't think that's the play. 3 squads in 3 drop pods landing on Turn 1 9" from 1-3 armored targets could be the way to go. Dev Doctrine even makes them -5 AP
24 (or 30 with cherubs) shots, 12+ (15+) hits, 6+ (7.5) successful wound rolls - no armor saves at -5 means 6+ * 3.5 (rerollable)+ wounds = 21+ (25+) wounds vs T8 2+ on the alpha strike, and you've potentially got four corners, and three units in their deployment zone with a nasty 24" bite.
So... welcome back suicide meltas? It's not exactly a new thing to do, it's expensive as sin and you can still just screen against it.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/26 12:55:44
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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I would think the flaming (Redeemer) would be very good. Ride forward with a potent payload to take the middel of the map. The flamers are insnaly punishing vs infantery. Multimelta and assualt cannon can do some work as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/26 18:26:42
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Blackie wrote:
How many points are those 3 devs in drop pods though? After their first turn of action they'll likely get crushed or tied up at the very least while pods are 200ish points of useless stuff once deployed. If they manage to kill a 285 points land raider and then they just die they don't sound like a solid option. Against armies with massed T5-6 vehicles or T7-8 with 5++ or 4++ like orks or drukhari they wouldn't even get their points back.
24W on a T8 vehicle means that they could barely destroy a 155 points Battlewagon with a 5++ given by a KFF or the Kustom Job. This assuming that all the meltas would fire within juciy range, which is unlikely.
One Dev/Pod combo is about halfway between your battle wagon and the land raider at current points costs.
Why yes, I was making the point that land raiders, repulsors and main battle tank type units should have some sort of invuln. Pointing out a battle wagon costing half the points has a better chance at surviving just drives it home even more.
Also don’t forget you still have 15 open seats on those pods that are now “free” because we baked the cost into the MM alpha strike. Even if we assume GW isn’t ready to end the separate but equal transport segregation between Primaris and old marines, 15 seats of captain/lieutenant bubbles, assault/vanguard/sternguard/tacticals/command (depending on what they do to them) plus command etc squads.. I’m doing the math on my pants leg here, but I figure that could be about half army - including some re roll bubble - 30 infantry, 3 vehicles, 9+ units - landing on the smoking crater of what used to be the strong point of my opponent’s army and I could still have 30 infantry sitting in my deployment zone including potentially another command bubble.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote:
So... welcome back suicide meltas? It's not exactly a new thing to do, it's expensive as sin and you can still just screen against it.
Cheaper than the land raider.
And not necessarily suicide. I think the last time we were doing suicide Melta it was sternguard in a pod and transports were limited to one unit + attached characters - which you wouldn’t do because they were suiciding. Now they can ride along without attaching, as can other entire squads especially if you want to avoid Blast if it becomes a thing.
Not to say we won’t some some cycles repeat. Drop pod door arguments. Nerfing turn 1 alpha strikes, and the never ending cycle of it being too advantageous in this game to go first.
Things to watch for in the codex:
Changes to Drop Pod Assault vis-a-vis Turn 1
Changes to the drop pod not-within 9” footprint on now smaller tables.
Mixed generation capabilities for Primaris/Old Marines in the new codex 5 Devs + 5 Intercessors/Reivers?
An invuln for the Land Raiders and/or Repulsors.
Edit to add: oooh! Bladeguard! If they allow mixed generations in drop pods use some of the empty seats for bladeguard. Protect the MM devs with power swording storm shielding 18 inch pistoling characters and units.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/26 18:54:34
My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 07:18:02
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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As an ork player I'd be glad to face half the opponent army coming by 3 pods, I wouldn't be scared at all. It would be easier for me to kill everything coming from those pods than for him to even net half of the points those units cost in their alpha strike.
Keep also in mind that pods have 10 seats so if you bring characters along with melta devs you can't add another unit in the same transport, just more characters or more bolter devs.
As a SW player I don't know as I don't play imperium vs imperium by principle. Maybe against other imperium armies an invuln could be handy for a LR, in practise I tipycally roll a 5+ save for it anyway. AP-4 exists, also for xeons, but it isn't common at all. That's why I don't think an invuln for a LR/repulsor would make any significant difference, people that currently avoid it will still avoid it. Unless it's a big invuln, like 4++ or better, but in that case those tanks would be overpowered and it won't gonna happen anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 08:16:16
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Blackie wrote:As an ork player I'd be glad to face half the opponent army coming by 3 pods, I wouldn't be scared at all. It would be easier for me to kill everything coming from those pods than for him to even net half of the points those units cost in their alpha strike.
Keep also in mind that pods have 10 seats so if you bring characters along with melta devs you can't add another unit in the same transport, just more characters or more bolter devs.
As a SW player I don't know as I don't play imperium vs imperium by principle. Maybe against other imperium armies an invuln could be handy for a LR, in practise I tipycally roll a 5+ save for it anyway. AP-4 exists, also for xeons, but it isn't common at all. That's why I don't think an invuln for a LR/repulsor would make any significant difference, people that currently avoid it will still avoid it. Unless it's a big invuln, like 4++ or better, but in that case those tanks would be overpowered and it won't gonna happen anyway.
As an orc player you don’t have the T8 2+ no invuln LR equivalent we’re talking about, And if you’re not worried about half the army using what basically amounts to a huge move shortcut on the first half of turn 1...that sounds like more of a balance issue than an alpha strike land raiders issue.
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 08:57:35
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Yeah, I mean, the list and tactics you proposed isn't TAC at all, it will definitely struggle against a lot of armies, that's why I wouldn't take it seriously when it comes to LRs' durability.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 09:01:04
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Breton wrote:As an orc player you don’t have the T8 2+ no invuln LR equivalent we’re talking about, And if you’re not worried about half the army using what basically amounts to a huge move shortcut on the first half of turn 1...that sounds like more of a balance issue than an alpha strike land raiders issue.
Funny, people kept telling me that battlewagons are ork landraiders for the last ten years. I guess it doesn't fit the narrative now.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 11:00:47
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Jidmah wrote:Breton wrote:As an orc player you don’t have the T8 2+ no invuln LR equivalent we’re talking about, And if you’re not worried about half the army using what basically amounts to a huge move shortcut on the first half of turn 1...that sounds like more of a balance issue than an alpha strike land raiders issue.
Funny, people kept telling me that battlewagons are ork landraiders for the last ten years. I guess it doesn't fit the narrative now.
When you Played orks and a faction with LR access, no. It ain't.
It is at most a leman Russ crossbreed with a Truck.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/27 11:17:26
Subject: Will the Land Raider finally be good this edition?
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
Netherlands
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Blackie wrote:Lascannons are currently 5 points cheaper, 15/20 vs 20/25.
Multimeltas gain better damage and become cheaper? Lol.
48" vs 24", str 9 vs str 8 (huge difference). 2 shots is nice tho.
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