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I just found out that this list is a thing.

Is the army/subfaction any good in a competitive game?

They aren't terrible, but like most of chaos they feel out of date in 9th edition. Their main trick is running up the board quickly with infantry and then hitting like a truck...but that doesn't work in 9th. A competent gunline with screens and/or strategic reserves will just table you with their shooting because you can't trap anything and your close combat models are extremely overpointed relative to their durability.

Chaos pretty much has to rely on sneaky tricks these days, and they don't have them.

I’m building this army and I’m looking at using warp talons and beserkers delivered via drop pod. The extra movement and strength given by bile and the extra attacks these guys have should work well.....?

You can still take all the CSM vehicles etc for you deployed army, so it’s not all about infantry.

Plus if you have 1 model from one unit within range of an objective, it’s your objective regardless of how many models the opponent has within the objective

mrFickle wrote:
I’m building this army and I’m looking at using warp talons and beserkers delivered via drop pod. The extra movement and strength given by bile and the extra attacks these guys have should work well.....?

You can still take all the CSM vehicles etc for you deployed army, so it’s not all about infantry.

Plus if you have 1 model from one unit within range of an objective, it’s your objective regardless of how many models the opponent has within the objective

All armies have their own form of Objective Secured.

Nope, quite frankly not worth looking into.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nope, quite frankly not worth looking into.

Why not, it’s just a CSM army but troops get +1 movement and strength

mrFickle wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nope, quite frankly not worth looking into.

Why not, it’s just a CSM army but troops get +1 movement and strength

Because Bile still uses Ramdumb, they have very few Strats talking about, and frankly other Subfactions of CSM are just...better.

Just cos other faction have better rules doesn’t mean Biles army aren’t worth playing. That logic means everyone would just play space marines all the time

In context of W2 marines? I'd bet you find them interesting.

One thing we don't know yet is if First Born bikes are W3. If so, the same applies for CSM. Additionally we'll get Astartes Chainswords. So, 3 S5 AP1 on the charge for 25 odd points. I do hope a new bike kit shows up soon.

+1 T is the easiest to get. T5 W2 Rubrics. Or T6 W2 DG. 5A Noise marines with Astartes CS and 1CP to make 6s to hit autowound that can run and charge. Helbrutes that M9 and pack the new MM and double out T7. S7 T5 Possessed with a GP. S7 M8 Greater Possessed. A daemon prince that doesn't need Diabolic to double out Primaris and has a 6+++ and heals D3 at the end of any fight phase where an enemy model dies w/i 1" and well as healing 1 and a 2+ save.

The possessed you could put down now since I'm pretty sure they'll stay W2.

There's plenty to squeeze out of that army. Some works now. Some will work a ton better real soon.

mrFickle wrote:
Just cos other faction have better rules doesn’t mean Biles army aren’t worth playing. That logic means everyone would just play space marines all the time

In the context of the army itself though, Bile doesn't offer anything. Your logic doesn't apply.

The original question was whether the sub-faction is good competitively. So in that context you're obviously measuring it against other chaos sub-factions. And by that measurement, it falls short.

Is it terrible? No, it's not terrible. But it's not as good as the other options. Hence the response that it isn't competitive. That's literally what competitive means - how does it measure up against other options?

Has anyone actually used this army?

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone actually used this army?

Doubtful.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Just cos other faction have better rules doesn’t mean Biles army aren’t worth playing. That logic means everyone would just play space marines all the time

In the context of the army itself though, Bile doesn't offer anything. Your logic doesn't apply.

Every round can buff a unit, has good war gear and can recover wounds, it’s a bit of stretch to say he doesn’t offer anything

You don't need to be Creation of Bile to take Bile in your army; he has one of those rules that lets him be taken in any heretic astartes detachment without breaking it. So that doesn't factor into whether the subfaction is competitive.

He's an odd model to actually fit into an army. He does a bunch of moderately useful stuff without it necessarily coming together into a compelling package. It needs to be a very particular sort of list for him to really work.

Except you can’t take him as black legion so it would have to be a different detachment wouldn’t it? Even in codex CSM his legion word is Fabius bile.

So you wouldn’t get a +1M or +1S on your units. Considering that buff is not just infantry but all charschter and hell brutes aswell and there no extra points for your untis. Also if they get an extra wound you’ve got a stronger CSM army at no points cost.

He is specifically called out in the detachment rule as not breaking detachments. You can take him in any CSM detachment, though he won't get the special rules for any detachment unless he's taken as Creations of Bile.

The Creations of Bile legion trait is decent, but the stratagem choice is pretty underwhelming, which is why it isn't a top-tier competitive choice. Alpha Legion is simply better as an all-rounder, and if you want to run an infantry-based, melee heavy army the way that Creations of Bile seems to be aimed at, Night Lords and Emperor's Children both do that better than Creations of Bile. Even World Eaters is probably better.

Again, it's not a terrible subfaction. But it's just not as good as the alternatives.

Can you not use all the stratagems in the CSM codex? They are not legion specific?

There's a few legion specific ones in the codex (one for each legion I think), but each legion has a page of stratagems of their own in PA: Faith and Fury just like the ones in War of the Spider for Creations of Bile, except that the ones in Faith and Fury are generally better. Arguably all of them are better, actually, now that I think about it. Creations of Bile has a better than average Legion Trait, but the stratagems are probably the worst overall of any of the Legions that get full PA treatment.

mrFickle wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Just cos other faction have better rules doesn’t mean Biles army aren’t worth playing. That logic means everyone would just play space marines all the time

In the context of the army itself though, Bile doesn't offer anything. Your logic doesn't apply.

Every round can buff a unit, has good war gear and can recover wounds, it’s a bit of stretch to say he doesn’t offer anything

Randumb buffs aren't some great offering for the army that already had a ton of randumb in it. Also the Stratagem choices are still poor overall. 1" of movement is nothing when World Eaters just grab the Banner and get their much better selection of Strats and Relics. They're a pretty bad Legion too.

So no, Bile doesn't offer much to the army and neither does his sub-faction of Marines itself.

I certainly hope they will be one day, after Bill gets done picking apart the Custodes he captured alive.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I certainly hope they will be one day, after Bill gets done picking apart the Custodes he captured alive.

Bill? Fabius Bile or Fabulous Bill, his less known, but far more charismatic clone?

-STS

He does the Buffalo Bill dance in front of his prisoners.

double post...go away

Hmmm I think the rewards for this army are bit based on luck but it think if you can get in close the agents of bile can do a lot of damage. So competitively not a sure thing.

But if we get the stats increases people are talking about then that may well change

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone actually used this army?


Doubtful.

Right here. I don't know the exact amount of games played - more than 5 but less than 10 I would say. Most of those games were in 8th with just a few in 9th. They were tested in a competitive environment so I feel I can confidently say they aren't nearly as bad as everyone says they are, but yeah, by themselves, they struggle.

The issue is that the buffs and strats mostly center around buffing infantry. Which is a pretty glaring weak spot for Chaos. The advantage is that they actually have some really good strats. They're useful right when you need them to be and there are very few true "losers" where you find yourself never using them. Even with the strats though, there aren't any wombo-combos, and you aren't pulling off anything like what some of the other armies can do.

It's a great army for making Berzerkers useful, or for adding to the possessed bomb, but honestly, I don't think I'd take them to a tournament and expect to do well for the most part. As others have said, the other factions are generally better. If you do try to take them, I would recommend taking two detachments. One for Creations of Bile, and another one to make up for their shortcomings. Something like Iron Warriors w/some good Demon Engines/Oblits, etc.

That said, they're a ton of fun in a less competitive environment. The rules feel "right" and they're very enjoyable to play. They just aren't overly strong.

Tycho wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone actually used this army?


Doubtful.

Right here. I don't know the exact amount of games played - more than 5 but less than 10 I would say. Most of those games were in 8th with just a few in 9th. They were tested in a competitive environment so I feel I can confidently say they aren't nearly as bad as everyone says they are, but yeah, by themselves, they struggle.

The issue is that the buffs and strats mostly center around buffing infantry. Which is a pretty glaring weak spot for Chaos. The advantage is that they actually have some really good strats. They're useful right when you need them to be and there are very few true "losers" where you find yourself never using them. Even with the strats though, there aren't any wombo-combos, and you aren't pulling off anything like what some of the other armies can do.

It's a great army for making Berzerkers useful, or for adding to the possessed bomb, but honestly, I don't think I'd take them to a tournament and expect to do well for the most part. As others have said, the other factions are generally better. If you do try to take them, I would recommend taking two detachments. One for Creations of Bile, and another one to make up for their shortcomings. Something like Iron Warriors w/some good Demon Engines/Oblits, etc.

That said, they're a ton of fun in a less competitive environment. The rules feel "right" and they're very enjoyable to play. They just aren't overly strong.

Fabius Bile is my favorite character in all of the lore so of course I also jumped on the opportunity to play this new faction. My other main CSM army is Word Bearers, which is important because of what my opinion is...

Creations of Bile is an army that roots its identity in the worst aspects of the CSM list that other factions can do better. Possessed bombs are a good move for Creations of Bile....but Word Bearers do it better. You can do some nasty stuff with Berserkers...but World Eaters do it better. What you gain from Creations of Bile is a lot less than what you gain from other Legions, which is not to say they are bad but they are just not that great.

Fabius Bile is a good embodiment of what is wrong with the Creations of Bile list, okay at a couple of things but not really great at anything with a gimmick that is forgettable. I will continue to play the army because I of course love that I get to play something that feels close to how Fabius Bile operates in then fluff but I don't really expect to be very competitive with the list.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

Tycho wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone actually used this army?


Doubtful.

Right here. I don't know the exact amount of games played - more than 5 but less than 10 I would say. Most of those games were in 8th with just a few in 9th. They were tested in a competitive environment so I feel I can confidently say they aren't nearly as bad as everyone says they are, but yeah, by themselves, they struggle.

The issue is that the buffs and strats mostly center around buffing infantry. Which is a pretty glaring weak spot for Chaos. The advantage is that they actually have some really good strats. They're useful right when you need them to be and there are very few true "losers" where you find yourself never using them. Even with the strats though, there aren't any wombo-combos, and you aren't pulling off anything like what some of the other armies can do.

It's a great army for making Berzerkers useful, or for adding to the possessed bomb, but honestly, I don't think I'd take them to a tournament and expect to do well for the most part. As others have said, the other factions are generally better. If you do try to take them, I would recommend taking two detachments. One for Creations of Bile, and another one to make up for their shortcomings. Something like Iron Warriors w/some good Demon Engines/Oblits, etc.

That said, they're a ton of fun in a less competitive environment. The rules feel "right" and they're very enjoyable to play. They just aren't overly strong.

Fabius Bile is my favorite character in all of the lore so of course I also jumped on the opportunity to play this new faction. My other main CSM army is Word Bearers, which is important because of what my opinion is...

Creations of Bile is an army that roots its identity in the worst aspects of the CSM list that other factions can do better. Possessed bombs are a good move for Creations of Bile....but Word Bearers do it better. You can do some nasty stuff with Berserkers...but World Eaters do it better. What you gain from Creations of Bile is a lot less than what you gain from other Legions, which is not to say they are bad but they are just not that great.

Fabius Bile is a good embodiment of what is wrong with the Creations of Bile list, okay at a couple of things but not really great at anything with a gimmick that is forgettable. I will continue to play the army because I of course love that I get to play something that feels close to how Fabius Bile operates in then fluff but I don't really expect to be very competitive with the list.

Have you tried bikers? I feel like lots of bikers would work well.

What’s the concept of the possessed bomb? Do you just mean lots of them rushing the enemy?

mrFickle wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

Tycho wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone actually used this army?


Doubtful.

Right here. I don't know the exact amount of games played - more than 5 but less than 10 I would say. Most of those games were in 8th with just a few in 9th. They were tested in a competitive environment so I feel I can confidently say they aren't nearly as bad as everyone says they are, but yeah, by themselves, they struggle.

The issue is that the buffs and strats mostly center around buffing infantry. Which is a pretty glaring weak spot for Chaos. The advantage is that they actually have some really good strats. They're useful right when you need them to be and there are very few true "losers" where you find yourself never using them. Even with the strats though, there aren't any wombo-combos, and you aren't pulling off anything like what some of the other armies can do.

It's a great army for making Berzerkers useful, or for adding to the possessed bomb, but honestly, I don't think I'd take them to a tournament and expect to do well for the most part. As others have said, the other factions are generally better. If you do try to take them, I would recommend taking two detachments. One for Creations of Bile, and another one to make up for their shortcomings. Something like Iron Warriors w/some good Demon Engines/Oblits, etc.

That said, they're a ton of fun in a less competitive environment. The rules feel "right" and they're very enjoyable to play. They just aren't overly strong.

Fabius Bile is my favorite character in all of the lore so of course I also jumped on the opportunity to play this new faction. My other main CSM army is Word Bearers, which is important because of what my opinion is...

Creations of Bile is an army that roots its identity in the worst aspects of the CSM list that other factions can do better. Possessed bombs are a good move for Creations of Bile....but Word Bearers do it better. You can do some nasty stuff with Berserkers...but World Eaters do it better. What you gain from Creations of Bile is a lot less than what you gain from other Legions, which is not to say they are bad but they are just not that great.

Fabius Bile is a good embodiment of what is wrong with the Creations of Bile list, okay at a couple of things but not really great at anything with a gimmick that is forgettable. I will continue to play the army because I of course love that I get to play something that feels close to how Fabius Bile operates in then fluff but I don't really expect to be very competitive with the list.

Have you tried bikers? I feel like lots of bikers would work well.

What’s the concept of the possessed bomb? Do you just mean lots of them rushing the enemy?

Lots of bikers just wouldn't make a difference, not like Chaos Bikes were breaking the game in the first place. The buffs and stratagems for Creations of Bile only work on infantry so really I see no reason to take a lot of bikes.

Possessed bombs are just blobs of possessed stacked with buffs in order to get them to a dangerous level which is exactly why you would rather run Word Bearers because they are worlds better at it.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:


Fabius Bile is my favorite character in all of the lore so of course I also jumped on the opportunity to play this new faction. My other main CSM army is Word Bearers, which is important because of what my opinion is...

Creations of Bile is an army that roots its identity in the worst aspects of the CSM list that other factions can do better. Possessed bombs are a good move for Creations of Bile....but Word Bearers do it better. You can do some nasty stuff with Berserkers...but World Eaters do it better. What you gain from Creations of Bile is a lot less than what you gain from other Legions, which is not to say they are bad but they are just not that great.

Fabius Bile is a good embodiment of what is wrong with the Creations of Bile list, okay at a couple of things but not really great at anything with a gimmick that is forgettable. I will continue to play the army because I of course love that I get to play something that feels close to how Fabius Bile operates in then fluff but I don't really expect to be very competitive with the list.

Possessed bombs are a bit of a dead concept. M8 possessed with +1 run/charge and charge after running have a considerable reach. Throw T5 on them and it will take a while to make them go away. Make them T6 with your own mini-transhuman when HBs come their way.