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So you might know Warhammer Digital has stated that 9th edition 40K rulebooks will not be available in digital versions. However, they still seem to be offering digital versions of rulebooks for their specialist games such as Necromunda and Adeptus Titanicus, both of which have been offered new digital content after the release of 9th edition of Warhammer 40,00. So this feels to me like a conscious effort on GW's behalf to try to push the new 40K app down our throats by denying any alternate avenues of digital content for the same rules content.

I object to this practice personally as it means my customer experience and enjoyment of the rules content lowers as a result of this forced digital content format change. Currently, the app doesn't even work on my main digital device of choice (iPad Pro 2018 running iPadOS 14), so right now GW isn't offering me the rules content in any format that I can use, and even if the app worked, the user experience is much poorer than utilizing the digital rulebook content from other 40k editions of the game, or their other games which offer content in the popular e-reader format (epub3 & iOS native iBooks). This is because the new app doesn't support native iPad screen resolutions, isnt multitask-compatible (no split screen support) nor contains any way to bookmark relevant sections. In addition to this, the app content offers no sense of hierarchy or verbose descriptions of the contents' context, unlike the digital editions of the rulebooks. The app also does not contain any artwork or lore related to the books.

Because of all this, I want to try to get a petition going where we, the customers, request that digital versions of the rulebooks and codixes will be made available again from Warhammer Digital or other digital marketplace in GW's control. I hope we can garner enough interest for this so that eventually GW is inclined to offer us an alternative.

How should I go about getting the ball rolling on this? Should I create a petition in change.org?

Right now, my personal course of action in resisting this availability restriction has been denying further rulebook sales from GW by purchasing my 9th edition rulebooks second hand, and scanning them into digital format myself. I have also canceled my subscription of the 40K app, and have informed Warhammer Digital what I have done and that I will try to encourage other customers to do the same if they are upset about not being offered a legal way of purchasing the rulebook content in digital format.

I still do not understand what GW plans to gain from not offering the digital rulebooks. This isn't about thwarting piracy, this is about exerting control to customers' ways of using the GW rules content. I think we can all agree that the current situation results in a lowered enjoyment of the products, and it would be in everyone's best interests that consumers had CHOICE in deciding how they want to best utilize and enjoy the rulebook content coming from GW.

you might be better off starting a peition on the GW facebook page, since we know GW actually reads that

That would be impossible, because I cannot agree to Facebooks EULA and therefore cannot register a facebook account.

If someone else is on facebook, please feel free to post about this on my behalf. You can link to this thread and quote the text as long as you don't take things out of context.

 tauist wrote:
I still do not understand what GW plans to gain from not offering the digital rulebooks.

 tauist wrote:
So this feels to me like a conscious effort on GW's behalf to try to push the new 40K app down our throats by denying any alternate avenues of digital content for the same rules content.

You already answered your own question. They are pushing a rushed and unfinished app to control the flow of their digital files, while also having a steady income from the subscriptions.

Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

 Stux wrote:
Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Digital content is quite easy duplicated into versions. I see very little justification for not doing both to increase revenue even more. "Why not both" would seem like a no brainer move to me.

Frankly, I've reached the point that if a company isn't going to offer their books in electronic format (preferably PDF), I don't want to deal with them.

GW took a great step forward with making their base rules a free PDF. If they want to be stingy with the codexes and other books, they can keep them.

 tauist wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Digital content is quite easy duplicated into versions. I see very little justification for not doing both to increase revenue even more. "Why not both" would seem like a no brainer move to me.

So are physical books. "ItZ tOO sToP teH EbIL PiWATZ!" is not a functional reasoning.

The sole reason is to force people to pay them a subscription, it's greed and nothing more.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Digital content is quite easy duplicated into versions. I see very little justification for not doing both to increase revenue even more. "Why not both" would seem like a no brainer move to me.

So are physical books. "ItZ tOO sToP teH EbIL PiWATZ!" is not a functional reasoning.

The sole reason is to force people to pay them a subscription, it's greed and nothing more.

Normally i don't like it when people use this, but it seems accurate.
It's funny tho, like the music industry, and the gameing industry is learning, piracy has it's advantages in the form of free advertisement.
Sales which they never would've made else. GW will like the other two industries go through a toothing phase, until they realise that is a losing matter.Hopefully, or double down on their greed to the point even regular custommers start considering singing shanties and robbing ships.

In my experience, from RPGs, when a company refuses to offer digital format books for sale, their customers will acquire them by other means anyway. It is a very shortsighted and misguided view, IMO.

 harlokin wrote:
In my experience, from RPGs, when a company refuses to offer digital format books for sale, their customers will acquire them by other means anyway. It is a very shortsighted and misguided view, IMO.

It's greed, simple as, GW is seeing where they can push the community and them still making money. You can see that with their pricing policy.
You can see this by their rules system,
You can see this via forcing down a Alpha state app down our throats.

 tauist wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Digital content is quite easy duplicated into versions. I see very little justification for not doing both to increase revenue even more. "Why not both" would seem like a no brainer move to me.

Well you need to give the voice to GW. Posting here doesn't reach to GW


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Frankly, I've reached the point that if a company isn't going to offer their books in electronic format (preferably PDF), I don't want to deal with them.

GW took a great step forward with making their base rules a free PDF. If they want to be stingy with the codexes and other books, they can keep them.

PDF is rather inefficient way to find data though. Especially on phone. Flipping through datasheets back and forth takes annoying much time.

Apple products have way better system but apple tax is high.

tneva82 wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Yeah, it makes no sense from their perspective to have to maintain everything on the app AND offer epub versions.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Digital content is quite easy duplicated into versions. I see very little justification for not doing both to increase revenue even more. "Why not both" would seem like a no brainer move to me.

Well you need to give the voice to GW. Posting here doesn't reach to GW

I already stated in my original post that I have messaged my stance and intentions to GW.

I posted here to ask for opinions on how to best proceed with such a petition, as well as gauging general interest in patricipating in such a petition. I'd reckon this is a rather 40K-centric forum, so thought this would be a good place for discussing the matter.

BTW, a pdf file with full index of contents is quite nifty to peruse IME, doubly so if using bookmarks. You just need a decent digital document reader software. Here's an example screenshot from GW's own digital rulebook's index. Clicking on a section opens the appropriate page. FWIW I find this "old" method of perusing rulebook data a lot more intuitive than what the 40K app is offering, where you must know the name of the thing you are searching for, and the search word must be 100% correctly typed.

Again, I am not advocating piracy here in any way. I am just suggesting that we vote with our wallets and GW can decide if its in their best interests to ignore this matter or not. This is how capitalist economy works.

 harlokin wrote:
In my experience, from RPGs, when a company refuses to offer digital format books for sale, their customers will acquire them by other means anyway. It is a very shortsighted and misguided view, IMO.

god knows WOTC's refusing to do digital versions of D&D books didn't stop me from getting them in PDFs back in 3rd edition

I have asked them at least 3 times though their various email addresses for access to app and epub content in other formats. I 'buy' a battletome in the app, yet I cannot access it as an ePub. The same with Blood Bowl's discontinued 'My Dugout' app.
This is the same. I bought a load of codexes from Warhammer Digital, but cannot access them though the 40k app.


Each part of GW has their own email adddress.
Spamming them all will make them ignore the lot, but if everyone queried this through their official email channels, they have feedback they have asked for.

https://www.warhammerdigital.com/Home/Help.html

CONTACT US

Who are we?
Welcome to the Warhammer Digital website.
We sell ebook versions of gaming supplements, rulebooks and painting guides which can be used in Games Workshop games, including: Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Age of Sigmar and The Horus Heresy.

Contact Us
Our Customer Services team are here to help. Please note: it can take a few days for us to respond to an email, but if you give us a call we'll be able to help you straight away.

By Email
digital@gwplc.com

I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

There's enough willing consoomers who'll defend GW's shoddy app and happily put down money for half-baked shovelware that they've no reason to rush and fix it, let alone offer an alternative to subscribing. They know most people will eventually cave.

which is exactly why I feel a petition of sorts is required.

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

You understand the situation correctly. Nowhere did I say anything about violating Copyrights or stated an intent towards advocating piracy, I just told them I will be denying GW from sales of rulebooks by buying the books second hand and making my own digital copies for my personal use.

 tauist wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

You understand the situation correctly. Nowhere did I say anything about violating Copyrights or stated an intent towards advocating piracy, I just told them I will be denying GW from sales of rulebooks by buying the books second hand and making my own digital copies for my personal use.

Btw is advocating for piracy actually grounds for legal persecution?

I thought if you bought the hard codex you got the digital version for free without paying the subscription on the app. Is this not true?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I just received a new reply from Warhammer Digital. They now claim that I am advocating pirating their IP and that GW law department will be in touch with me shortly. According to them, I "threatened" them I would share my PDF scans on the internet, while I never said that is what I would do. Neither is it something that I'm ever going to do. I replied to them that it is my understanding that I am allowed to scan my personal property to PDF format for my own personal use under EU law, but we'll see how it goes..

This is getting a little ridiculous.

So, let me get this straight, you bought a book second hand, FOR your own USE you digitalised it and ARE NOT distributing it.
You have informed GW that you did this and the cancelation of your subscription because A : APP is terrible and controlling B: there are no digitial PDF alternatives distributed anymore, and now they are calling their lawyers for that?

i mean talk about laying your priorites bare to see for everyone...

You understand the situation correctly. Nowhere did I say anything about violating Copyrights or stated an intent towards advocating piracy, I just told them I will be denying GW from sales of rulebooks by buying the books second hand and making my own digital copies for my personal use.

Spoiler:

Btw is advocating for piracy actually grounds for legal persecution?

I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, no legal persecution has occurred until GW law department contacts me. I have a feeling they might not, if they bother to read my email more thorroughly than whoever it was that replied me

Incognito15 wrote:
I thought if you bought the hard codex you got the digital version for free without paying the subscription on the app. Is this not true?

you should technically , but the issue is not that but rather that the app is just , non tested ALPHA expecting subscription fees, and unoptimized, unlike the former digital sales which you could adapt easily with a good reader and or just turn into an easily navigable PDF file.

The only way I can see them back tracking is if they accept the app as a failure. And that will not happen soon or lightly. They are in too deep and will do everything they can to keep the app alive.

Looking at what they have done so far - they aren't in that deep, and they've been known to abandon things like this even faster after being in even deeper.

If folks want the ePubs back - just don't buy the app. Period. It will still take time, but in 5 or 6 months, if it's still on life-support with very few subscriptions, they'll drop it. One of the reasons I wasn't planning on getting it (and this is BEFORE we knew the state it was in) was because of GWs almost cavalier willingness to dump things like this, so if we simply don't buy it, we'll be fine imo.

Incognito15 wrote:
I thought if you bought the hard codex you got the digital version for free without paying the subscription on the app. Is this not true?

I thought that was for 9th edition books, and we haven't had a 9th ed 'dex released yet. I might be wrong on that, though.

Removed - please do not advocate piracy

Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

I'd second that request. The described tone of that convo runs counter to every support experience I've ever had (or heard of) form GW since the game started. If that's really what went down, it's probably a random thing with an agent having a bad day, but it should be addressed.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Is there any chance you could publish a copy of your response from GW?

I would like to email them regarding it and ask for an offical comment on why their customer relations department is harassing its actual paying customers with threats of legal action for things that are not crimes under the law of the country it operates in.

Not trying to defend GW, but - they bought the book second-hand so are they still a paying customer?