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Now, without any snark or malice, I would like to try and understand the strategy that GW puts into developing into their new paints of the range. (And this is coming from someone who has a bunch of other ranges. This is more about thinking of the GW ecosystem for the young'uns)
I was looking at the How to Paint video for the necrons of the new 40k boxed sets and was seeing several new paint pots being used that I don't have in my box. The difference being with these new paints in the range is that, chromatically, they do not look that different from existing colors. Corvus Black looks ever-so-cooler than Abaddon, and Iron Hands Steel looks ever-so-warmer than Lead Belcher. Are we at the tail-end of filling out an overly large range? Is the tenet that they never tell a new painter to mix any two colours together strong enough that they are going to press these kids to buy new pots?

More to the point, I have watched and read a lot GW instructions on how to paint stuff that they put out because it is good fun. I like their stuff. But sometimes it seems that most of the recipes have an "evergreen" range that they use (like the base and layer colors that you can find at smaller retailers) but then they have releases of more specialized pots to go along with a couple model releases but are then "back-burnered" from most future paint references. (What is Ironbreaker for?)

I know this is all persnickety concerns, but a part of me remembers when I was a kid and all that warhammer stuff was so expensive (past tense, ha!). And I can remember being kind of hidebound when it came to following instructions. Mixing colors would not have been attempted by me if it wasn't mentioned in the text.
I kind of wish the new, friendly, GW would break kayfabe and tell the young ones it is okay to mix colours together to get what you want. (And also talk about how their studio models are painted with completely different methods sometimes.)

Anyway, I am sorry this is not a direct question. But does GW really release filler colors in the range that are not worth it to pros and conceptually abandoned after the models they go with have been released?

This is an interesting question. As a noobie you don’t realise how competitive the paint market is. And GW must know that most seasoned painters will say that all things considered Vallejo are king of the hill. And there are many more very good paint makers out there. Especially if you want something different. GW do seem to try and keep their income stream alive by saturating thier product line and all the names make it hard to remember what’s new and what’s not. When they bring out a new type of product like contrast or technical paint they seem to do it in such a prescriptive way that I think they struggle to sell them. And other people are doing it better.

GSW do creative paints much better and because they show you how to use them creatively as opposed to “here’s how you use them to paint ultra marines” I’m much more likely to buy non GW

It's interesting because this is unavoidably an artistic hobby, but the idea of making'art' is very intimidating or just not interesting to a lot of people. I think GW's strategy is about breaking down those perceived barriers as much as possible. You don't have to understand how colours mix, just buy the corresponding light/ dark tones. You don't have to understand how light works, just highlight where the edges are and let washes shade the recesses.

I think it's an effective way of essentially 'tricking' people who perhaps don't see themselves as artistic or creative into being part of an artistic hobby. You alienate a lot of people by expecting them to have a prior knowledge or an inclination to learn about the deeper mechanics of painting. I think in a lot of cases the initial appeal of the hobby is cool models that already exist. You want to buy into this THING that the company makes. Wanting to explore the setting and create your own ideas is something that comes with time and confidence; in the first place you just need to be comfortable in making the models you buy look cool. GW's whole strategy is about making that first stage in the process as easy and uncomplicated as possible.

shmvo wrote:
It's interesting because this is unavoidably an artistic hobby, but the idea of making'art' is very intimidating or just not interesting to a lot of people. I think GW's strategy is about breaking down those perceived barriers as much as possible.

In the UK at least a lot of art subjects at school are often not well taught. They don't get the time and the teachers often don't really have the fundamental skills to teach the specific technicalities of the subject. So art very much becomes a bit of a mystical power. You are either "born with the eye" or not. I see the same thing cross over into photography - where you often get a lot who have a a desire to express themselves through art, but were never "gifted at drawing/painting" at school.

Thing is art is like any other subject, you can learn it. It has theory and technical aspects that form solid foundations. GW is actually a fantastic display of how people who otherwise might never develop artistic skills, can develop at least a very competent level of hand eye skill at painting. I think that's why GW tends to keep "Art" out of a lot of their early promotional and guide videos. You're not doing art you're painting models. The recipes they provide are ideal for beginners who often don't have the confidence to mix paints and also want a consistent colour for their army. Another aspect is how they very much push for getting any paint on the model as a good thing rather than aiming high. That's why a lot of the tutorial and studio schemes are often quite simple. GW aims for a style that is easier to emulate (broadly speaking). IF GW can trick you into doing art then eventually you'll have the hand eye skills and some of the methods to the point where you can either keep going as you are; or start to experiment and to go further - where there are no limits.

In contrast firms like Infinity go wild with the art and use top grade work on their models. Which looks fantastic and is very inspiring, but is clearly not going to impress beginners when they can't easily "emulate it" on their own models. GW tends to reserve this for the Evy Metal team models and for competitions which they promote like the Golden Demon and such. They are also doing more for showing gamer models which also helps show off conversions not just artwork on the models.

I think this is a great question.

Warhammer has been a major part of my life throughout my teenage years, one that I have stuck with over many other things. It is probably one of the things that brings me the most consistent enjoyment out of all the parts of my life. I find that this is because it allows to express my creative and artistic side in harmony with my nerdy, as well as the social side. This is something (in my experience) you can't find anywhere else

However if you told me back when I started that I'd be doing the hobby so I could learn artistic techniques and evolve my skill I'd have thought you'd be lying- it's something I usually hate doing.
What the GW paint range (and the hobby as a whole) did was provide a very accessible and enjoyable method of making this form of art that would have definitely made me lose interest if it was presented differently. The paints, by providing a very obvious almost paint by numbers technique with its pots allowed an interesting entry level, and as my skills improved, the willingness to try other more arty techniques was created. Now painting is one of the parts I enjoy most about the hobby.

If it was that the GW paint range was much different, smaller, instead encouraging mixing/thinning/blending etc it would have made me and many other people uninterested.

It is also interesting that someone brought up the Eavy Metal and the studio painters from GW. I think these guys do a fantastic job at creating very realistic and high quality models, while also being very easy and rewarding to try and emulate. The schemes, if you were to look at the whole process of painting them, is intensely complicated and high quality. But despite this anyone can look at the boxes and go 'I can try that'- which again encourages new people to do it.


To a veteran painter GW paints might be the bane of existence but I think that the range is a fantastic entry level point and it allows so many more people to get into it.

It has been 18 years since i was thought this, sobit might be wrong. In theory you only beed 5 colours of paint when you work subtractivly for mixing colours. (As opposed to addictivly, like light cones.) White, black, red, blue and green. In practicalaty you need 8 or 13, I can not remember. Because you cant get there with the current pigments. So in a way you only need those 8 or 13 + metal piglents and wash medium and you are good to go. You can make any colour you want!

But why should you? It is such a time savour to just buy the colour you need. Look to the impresionistic movement. It came partly as a resoult of paint in new containers (tubes.)

Also, acrylics dry up fast. Mixing yourself makes more sence with say oil paint where you have all day.

Time us money, so save some and buy instead of mix.

Garbagegoat wrote:
Corvus Black looks ever-so-cooler than Abaddon, and Iron Hands Steel looks ever-so-warmer than Lead Belcher...

Both of these colors started life as Forge World paints that were brought into the main line last year alongside the Contrast paints. Corvus Black is actually a very dark grey color and not an actual black, while you can get a good comparison of Iron Hands Steel and Leadbelcher from this POST here on Dakka. Comparing the colors using the swatches from the online store is really only a ballpark approximation at best.

GW has approximately 341 products in their paint line (including Technicals, Shades, etc). Vallejo has 218 products in their Model Color line, but they have many more lines than GW has (Model Air, Game Color, Game Air, Mecha Color, etc).

As for mixing paints, most people using Citadel paints are painting armies where the goal is to have a large number of models painted near identically. Mixing paints is not an ideal situation in this case for most people.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
I think this is a great question.

Warhammer has been a major part of my life throughout my teenage years, one that I have stuck with over many other things. It is probably one of the things that brings me the most consistent enjoyment out of all the parts of my life. I find that this is because it allows to express my creative and artistic side in harmony with my nerdy, as well as the social side. This is something (in my experience) you can't find anywhere else

However if you told me back when I started that I'd be doing the hobby so I could learn artistic techniques and evolve my skill I'd have thought you'd be lying- it's something I usually hate doing.
What the GW paint range (and the hobby as a whole) did was provide a very accessible and enjoyable method of making this form of art that would have definitely made me lose interest if it was presented differently. The paints, by providing a very obvious almost paint by numbers technique with its pots allowed an interesting entry level, and as my skills improved, the willingness to try other more arty techniques was created. Now painting is one of the parts I enjoy most about the hobby.

If it was that the GW paint range was much different, smaller, instead encouraging mixing/thinning/blending etc it would have made me and many other people uninterested.

It is also interesting that someone brought up the Eavy Metal and the studio painters from GW. I think these guys do a fantastic job at creating very realistic and high quality models, while also being very easy and rewarding to try and emulate. The schemes, if you were to look at the whole process of painting them, is intensely complicated and high quality. But despite this anyone can look at the boxes and go 'I can try that'- which again encourages new people to do it.


To a veteran painter GW paints might be the bane of existence but I think that the range is a fantastic entry level point and it allows so many more people to get into it.

Is really like to learn more about the art you talk about by am not sure where to go. I am the kind of person that struggle to get good at something with out understanding how it all works and so I have struggled with the paint by numbers, as you say, approach that GW demonstrate. Because when it goes wrong I don’t understand and get frustrated haha. So I have been watching lots of techniques and learned painting and got better but I still would love to understand more about how colour works etc. So if there’s a good you tube video you can recommend...



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 Overread wrote:

shmvo wrote:
It's interesting because this is unavoidably an artistic hobby, but the idea of making'art' is very intimidating or just not interesting to a lot of people. I think GW's strategy is about breaking down those perceived barriers as much as possible.

In the UK at least a lot of art subjects at school are often not well taught. They don't get the time and the teachers often don't really have the fundamental skills to teach the specific technicalities of the subject. So art very much becomes a bit of a mystical power. You are either "born with the eye" or not. I see the same thing cross over into photography - where you often get a lot who have a a desire to express themselves through art, but were never "gifted at drawing/painting" at school.

Yep the only thing they can really tech you in most UK school is Reading, writing and arithmetic. Art and Sports are really just an about relying on natural talent of pupils and sod the rest

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies Dakka! it looks like the internet is still good for something!

True confession time. I was one of those kids who got started painting miniatures (and doodling in class) and that became the first steps in my creative career. I have several college degrees in fine art and art education now, and so I think that is why I am having obsessive concerns over how the paint range and creative aspects of the hobby are being pitched to the young/new players.

I definitely can agree that:

Getting people to pick up paint for the first time and walk them through steps is a tightrope affair. The more simple and approachable you make the process, the better to relax the anxiety of the new practitioner. I think GW does a fantastic job with their battle-ready painting videos and accessible content.

Painting "models" is very different than painting pictures, images, or art. The need for a model painter to have consistent colors and ready-to-go graduations is a recognized technique for single models, but particularly so for army and troop painting for consistent unit schemes.

That being said, I might be a little dated when I say this, but I remember a time when the hobby pointed to next steps in more individualized creativity and a more relaxed environment of "making stuff". Articles about making your own terrain, using tools that were not strictly Citadel manufacture, and more emphasize on mixing techniques done by the 'Eavy Metal studio (I don't get White Dwarf, do they still have that in there?).

I guess my main concern, hinted in my first post, is that pitching an overly fat line of paints to use for new players/painters, is not kind. Perhaps all the core set models should adhere to a core range of paints to use. Their starter paint kits kind of do this, but the next steps you can see on youtube cut straight to a wide and oddball range of color pots that they just came out with and need to sell. Maybe I am just expecting too much from the company, but maybe have a video to the new player about "Paint your core set fantastically with your core set of versatile paints using this slight mix or this technique."

It's the teacher in me that wants kids to be able to do well but not spend unnecessarily.

As GW has steadily offered more of their own they've tended to offer less creative guides. So instead of books on how to make terrain they tend to focus a bit more on how to work with their own terrain kits. You still get converting articles, perhaps a bit less than they used too.

That said its not like it was in the 90s. GW is no longer the only company producing hobby crafting material alongside the odd airfix magazine. GW is actually, for all their size, quite small in terms of creative content guides; likely caused by them going through a prolonged period of internet avoidance.

There are LOADS of Facebook and forum and youtube and twitch channels and sites that show people how to make things; how to paint; how to do almost all the creative stuff. The only somewhat grey area is sculpting and even that has a decent amount of basic information.


GW might well get people on the first step; but thereafter if they follow it and have a passion there is a vast amount of ready material provided they've got an internet connection.



GW will generally push toward more sales; its a more instant result for the customer and a quicker profit for GW. Meanwhile there are loads of guides for mixing colours; layering wet blending and more advanced methods of painting

I think you need to remember that the influencing factors are not 100% about painting minis. GW is the only UK high street store that has made continuous growth since the 2008 recession. They are making money and they like it and they are continuing to make more and like it more. This always happens when a company goes from niche interest to international success. Less focus on the quality for the consumer and more focus on keeping the shareholders.

Garbagegoat wrote:
I guess my main concern, hinted in my first post, is that pitching an overly fat line of paints to use for new players/painters, is not kind.

Your average army is not going to need but a fraction of the paints that GW produces, so why would it be a problem that GW has a large line of paints?

mrFickle wrote:
I think you need to remember that the influencing factors are not 100% about painting minis. GW is the only UK high street store that has made continuous growth since the 2008 recession. They are making money and they like it and they are continuing to make more and like it more. This always happens when a company goes from niche interest to international success. Less focus on the quality for the consumer and more focus on keeping the shareholders.

I'd argue that GW miniatures today are exceeding the quality they were 20 years ago. GW has invested vast amounts in plastic casting. Sure we had that hiccup around Finecast because it was mostly rushed to market as a stop-gap to get over metal price issues and supply; but GW's certainly invested heavily. In fact unlike most other businesses, GW invests only their profits/excess into expansion - they don't take out loans. Many other big firms will take out huge loans to fund expansion - which often comes back to bite them when the market slows. GW on the other hand doesn't; they only expand and improve with their own excess. If the market slows down they don't have huge loans. If the market speeds up and demand goes up GW has more for the shareholders and more to improve their operations.

Shouldn't kids learn to mix paints in kinder garden? or one would hope so.
If GW is the one teaching kids how to mix colors that is a major educational failure.

I am still using vailejos from 10 years ago (all citadels dried up already) So it takes a long time for me to go through a pot/dropper of paint.
So the only paint I actually buy are new colors to try out.
How would you survive on a business model where your customers don't need to refill in months or years?
Mayhaps coming up with new paints is the only way to keep the sales?

Mixing paints is great for one model. For an army painted over years... it’s realy worth the couple of bucks to not mix, in my opinion.

It’s frustrating, because even if a shop carries citadel, a lot of those colors are still order only. Even from GW shops, which makes it tough.

On the whole though,more colors is s good thing.

 Mothsniper wrote:
Shouldn't kids learn to mix paints in kinder garden? or one would hope so.
If GW is the one teaching kids how to mix colors that is a major educational failure.

Not to be political here, but I would argue that it is an societal failure when kids don't get enough art and diverse experiences in public schools. There is just not enough resources given to education to ensure that happens across the board.

Also, beside that, I would argue that color mixing is a concept that can only really be grasped at the young teenage level with hue, saturation, and lightness contrasts and use of a color wheel to find relationships. Mixing paints is one thing but mixing color is another.

I don't begrudge GW making money as a business but at the same time I think there should be a "stewardship" discussion that we as fans can have. I want GW to coach the young creatives/players into the hobby without them burning out on cost. I think the question of sustainability is in GW's interest. They don't want their fan base to migrate into more small hobby lines because of cost or attitude burnout. Why not tell they new players/painters about doing it well with limited resources.

Taking a look at their very nice painting tutorials about painting up the Ultramarines from the new Indomitus boxed set. Here are the total number of paints that they tell you to use:

Indomitus Ultramarines Battle Ready
sprays 2x $20/12.50 GBP = $40/25 GBP
paints 17x $4.55/2.75 GBP = $77.35/46.75 GBP
contrasts 11x $7.80/4.75 GBP = $85.80/52.25 GBP
technical 1x $7.80/4.75 GBP = $7.80/4.75 GBP
Total: $210.95/128.75 GBP

And then the next stage to get them to look really good adds the following paints on top of that
Indomitus Ultramarines Parade Ready
paints x28 more $4.55/2.75 GBP = $127.40/77 GBP
Total: $338.35/205.75 GBP

So who is that price point geared for? Surely GW does not want to suggest that hobbyists should wise up and buy Vallejo, right? Maybe they should pitch a more attainable method to the newbs?

 Mothsniper wrote:
Shouldn't kids learn to mix paints in kinder garden? or one would hope so.

That's when kids actually *like* art. I'm sure as their souls get sucked out as they're prepared to become societal cogs interest declines.

But back to GW. Not everyone painting wants to spend more time on the hobby than they have to. If I can drop some disposable income to avoid a task I don't want to do, why shouldn't I?

Can't wait for color 3D printers which make miniatures and not cake frosting.

Garbagegoat wrote:
Now, without any snark or malice, I would like to try and understand the strategy that GW puts into developing into their new paints of the range.

1. Pick a colour.
2. Give it a name that obfuscates what the colour actually is.
3. Put it in as small a pot as possible for the highest price as plausible.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Regarding the finecast minatures. I would just say that besides some airbubbles, I really liked them. They came out of the print with more sharper lines then metal once. If you got a bad cast the local shop/gw replaced it. The multi part plastic kits now are superior, but I stil field and enjoy ny finecast models.

GW is not going to hunt you down and smash your models if you don't follow their tutorials exactly. Painting models is art, so artistic license and all. For Ultramarines, all a beginner would need is the Space Marines: Assault Intercessors + Paints Set (which comes with 6 paints, a brush and 3 models) for $35. If the beginner wishes to continue, then you can pick up a cheap can of black spray primer and pots of paint as needed and as finances allow.

 Ghaz wrote:
GW is not going to hunt you down and smash your models if you don't follow their tutorials exactly.

They're too busy making your old models obsolete to force you to buy more new models.

Anyway, I just realized that GW may be following a crafting model and not an artist one. That is, with craft paints, you also have a ridiculous range of paints. Furthermore, you have stuff that all you have to do is assemble and paint, then you're done. You even have preprinted letters, pictures, and symbols you can apply to your finished product. And you have step-by-step tutorials to make various items. Sounds familiar. I imagine the crafting market is *much* larger than the artist's market, with at least one entire chain dedicated to the hobby.