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Hey Guys,

i am pretty new to 40K. I played a few games against a friend (Dark Angels Player). We play Patrol Detachments (500P Games). I Play Orks. And he always Crushes me. Its not even Close and i Dont know how to counter it. Last few Game he fielded 1 Unit of 5 Scouts, 1 Belial and 1 Squad with 8 Deathwing Terminators. And he used "Auspex Scan" and Overwatch to kill my "da Jumped" Boyz, How do i Counter Terminators?! Some said to me: LOTS OF BOYZ, that doesnt work... i literally never inflicted a Wound on those Terminators ever with Boyz....


Any Help appreciated a lot.

if you need to I can give more Details about his Army.

When facing such Terminator army, Instead of "moar boyz", I suggest "moar dakka" "Moar Lootas". "Moar Custom Blasters", "Moar Shokk Attack Gunz" and "Moar Burna Bombas"

Furthermore, mortal wounds are your friends, bring more.

Worth nothing that the game is kinda janky at 500 pts - you can get some very skewed compositions and/or bad match ups at that level. You might wish to consider moving to a higher points value.

Thanks for your replys.

I thought they removed the shokk attack gun from the game?

Do you Think a Burna Bommer is worth it in a 500P Match?

Are they normal terminators in a da army or death knight terminators? Do they have storm bolters and powerfists or all cc weapons? Thats actually important.

I am not sure of the cost but if they are the normal ones your best option is to use some better ranged units like mech guns. Orks are in a... poor... spot atm and as mentioned 500 pts puts the game at a kind of skewed level. It's a lot better than 500 pts in 8th though, thats for sure!

You could also hit them with psycic powers. Smite is your friend.

Finally if it is the gun and fist guys you can use trucks. Have some of the flame thrower guys in a truck or 2. The truck can protect against shooting and the flamers in side can do some work. If you get charged the truck will die but enough flame boys should survive to hit back.

Or just show up with a bonebreaka.... if you get the charge (which you should) that thing will crunch at 215pts. Give it the roller, 4 guns, and a killa Kannon. Kannon should kill a terminator in shooting, maybe 2 if your lucky, with blast and flat 2 dmg. And the thing hits on 2's with 6 attacks str 9 ap-2 2dmg flat. There is a strat called ramming speed, you roll 3d6 to charge and do d3 mortals on a 2+ when you charge in. Again averages are a dead term.

Yeah, 5 scouts+belial+8 terminators is a super dickish 500pt list, I'm sorry. You've literally got 90% of your army in just the one unit. If I was up against a list like that I'd show up the next game with like a KFF big mek +4 kustom boosta blastas if he's gonna play that game. Here, have 24 S7 Ap-2 D2 shots per turn that you physically can not ever get into melee with.

That's like 1 level removed from "lol my 500pt list is one knight".

He Had Deathwing Terminators with Power Fists and Storm Bolter (6), one Power Sword and 1 Guy with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

The thing is, the only Vehicles i have are 1 Trukk and (i know not exactly Vehicles) 3 Black Reach Killakoptas. As i said, i just recently startet with WH. So if i go and buy some Kustom Boosta Blasta or Battle Weagon, are they worth something in general or just against that List? I also dont have Lootas yet. I dont mind getting new Stuff, but spending like 150 bucks just to kick his **** is a lot


Btw. that wasnt the worst List he brought... once he had a List.. in the whole game, one Model of him died... because his gun exploded...

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, 5 scouts+belial+8 terminators is a super dickish 500pt list, I'm sorry. You've literally got 90% of your army in just the one unit. If I was up against a list like that I'd show up the next game with like a KFF big mek +4 kustom boosta blastas if he's gonna play that game. Here, have 24 S7 Ap-2 D2 shots per turn that you physically can not ever get into melee with.

That's like 1 level removed from "lol my 500pt list is one knight".

I second this.
Your friend's army list is VERY not fun, not casual, not new player friendly.

NBC_Demo wrote:
He Had Deathwing Terminators with Power Fists and Storm Bolter (6), one Power Sword and 1 Guy with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

The thing is, the only Vehicles i have are 1 Trukk and (i know not exactly Vehicles) 3 Black Reach Killakoptas. As i said, i just recently startet with WH. So if i go and buy some Kustom Boosta Blasta or Battle Weagon, are they worth something in general or just against that List? I also dont have Lootas yet. I dont mind getting new Stuff, but spending like 150 bucks just to kick his **** is a lot


Btw. that wasnt the worst List he brought... once he had a List.. in the whole game, one Model of him died... because his gun exploded...

Nah, that's just if it were me with my collection, don't spend 150 bucks.

What've you got? 3 deffcoptas and a trukk full of boyz with a warboss is a pretty solid start to countering the Deathwing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically, vs a list like that, youll need to take a bunch of weapons that deal multiple damage per shot like rokkits and whittle him down a little bit because the basic troops you have access to in 500pts lists aren't the ones that have the concentrations of killsaws to hurt those guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im assuming also you're following the rules of deep strike, so these guys are just walking at you? That one unit is over half his list, so he cannot legally deep strike with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's an example strategy for 500pts vs Belial, 8 termies, 5 scouts:

Our list is an Ork Patrol

-HQ: Warboss, Power Klaw. Obviously our warlord, so he gets the Brutal but kunnin trait, and the only guy who can have a relic so he gets the good old Killa Klaw. We're also going to spend 1cp to make him "Da biggest boss" to give him more attacks and an invulnerable save so he might be able to duel it up with belial.

Troops: 10 boyz, Shootas, a nob with a Killsaw

Transport: 1 Trukk

Fast Attack: 3 Rokkit Deffcoptas
Fast Attack 4 Warbikers, Big Choppa Nob

We'll say we have the Bad Moonz clain trait, which gives us a nice option to continue playing the game if things go south for our melee boyz.

Our bikers' job is to be bait, and to kill scouts with their guns if they can. our Deffcoptas' job is to not get hit by both the storm bolters and the rockets before they get to shoot,.

The win condition for us is the Terminators get into our bikes, kill them, but then we get to get our lads out of the trukk, shoot everything we have into the terminators, charge the terminators leading with the Trukk just in case he uses Overwatch, fight first with the warboss, and use "Orks is Never Beaten" to fight again with the warboss if either belial or the terminators interrupts and kills him.

The boyz squad in melee vs the terminators is BASICALLY just the nob, who actually stands to kill 1 or 2 of them with his killsaw. They're there primarily as backup, if the terminators interrupt melee and kill the warboss they can probably then fight and wipe out the rest of the terminators.

The win for us will probably look like:

-we kill 1-2 terminators with rokkits and dakka in shooting, bikers shoot scouts and kill at least a few of them with shooting.
-terminators wipe out the bikers before they get to fight
-we kill 1 more terminator with rokkits and dakka
-warboss eats 3 terminators
-Belial interrupts and - maybe - kills the warboss? He shouldn't by averages, but if he does, Orks is Never Beaten, warboss attacks belial, almost certainly kills him.

Even if the terminators grind out the boyz you can fall back with the trukk to go score and keep shooting with the rokkits to finish them off/kill scouts.

I think he could deep strike, because terminators is one Units, Belial is 1 and Scouts 1.... but he didnt. because i would table his 5 scouts with da Jump, first turn.

What've you got? 3 deffcoptas and a trukk full of boyz with a warboss is a pretty solid start to countering the Deathwing.

i have finished building and Painting:
- all the Black Reach Stuff (20 Slugga Boyz, 3 Killakoptas, 1 Warboss with PK, 5 Slugga Nobz)
- 10 Shoota Boyz
- 1 Bossnob with PK
- 3 Meganobz, magnetized for all the good options (even for Big Mek in Mega Armour)
- 1 Trukk
- 1 gorgeous Weirdboy ()
- 10 Gretchin

I also have 3 Bikers and the Start Collecting Box not yet build and painted, So i could build me a Killsaw Bossnob.

Thanks for all your help

Those coptas may be your saving grace/ best bet. I will be honest, I dont have a lot of experience playing AS orks (building my ork army slowly as I find deals on stuff I like) but I have played a lot against them.

I remember 1 game as harliquins when I charged a star weaver with murder clowns in it at a squad of copters with rokkits..... and got totally blown out of the air. Its why I own nine of them now lol. The up side is each one of those rokkits that hit wounds on a 2 and puts his armor save to a 4+, so a 50% chance of swatting a terminator. The down side is if your in range to shoot so is he. Though even if thats the case he wounds you on 5's and you still have your own armor saves, so its not a garunteed dead copter.

The bonebreaka is an amazing unit, its definitely worth looking at as an investment option. Same with Burna Boys, burna bombers, and lootas. Heck, lootas with their deffguns will crunch terminators good!

HOWEVER... I dont suggest buying anything specific just to kill his terminators. Thats a type of meta chasing that will lead to a situation where you buy something you counter him and then he counters by bringing something to counter you. I hate to say it, but if you like the look of something AND it is good at killing terms then definitely go for it, but if your getting it just for this 1 thing its a bad idea. Orks are not in a good spot right now (no where as strong as marines) but they are a fun army to own and play.

I hope all of this helps, let us know how your games go.

And as others have said, your friend is kinda play a dick army for a starter player. Maybe he knew it when he picked it, maybe he just likes terminators. At higher point lvls terms are not as good because there are more points to spread out and give you better gun options to deal with them.

If he's got an army that you're struggling to kill; don't try to kill it.

The game revolves around objectives, board control, and the like nowadays. Focus all your firepower on everything but the termies, and leave him with 1 unit left on the board. he then has to decide whether to try to kill you, or camp on one objective whilst you take the other 3. you'll find by the end of the game, you'll have more VP than him.

Keep your koptas well out of CC range and use them to claim any objectives he's not on. Ignore him, drive right past and use your boys to repair teleport homer in his backfield - screened by the trukk to keep them alive.

With only 3 units to face, and one of those a character, you should be able to easily kill 5 scouts and outmanoeuvre the rest of them. Don't get sucked into the idea that orks should be charging - do not charge his CC units! the game's not about killing any more!

(case in point, my last game I had half my army left, opponent had 2 models. opponent won on VP by 34 to 44. I got all caught up killing and lost the game!

He can sit on at most 3 objectives, but probably only 2 since he will keep belial with the termies. You can just play objectives to beat him. Especially if you can manage to kill the scouts then he can only score on one point

 Billagio wrote:
He can sit on at most 3 objectives, but probably only 2 since he will keep belial with the termies. You can just play objectives to beat him. Especially if you can manage to kill the scouts then he can only score on one point

I disagree on these points. I think on a 30" x 44" board with the new combat patrol missions he'll be able to win via 2 krak missiles and 8 storm bolters in rapid each turn, since he's going to be able to sit in tactical for 2 turns.

Realistically, the only thing you're gonna be able to kill via shooting is 1-ish terminator per turn with the koptas, and it'll be a pretty clear point that that's your only threat, so they'll take some krak and some bolter fire the next turn, probably bringing 2/3 down.

I don't think you can outscore. The objectives all tend to be near the center, and the termies will be able to waltz from one objective to the other charging into melee. I think the best bet any way you slice it is making sure you get a Killa Klaw warboss in to the terminator squad, and take out a chunk of them, ASAP. Fight twice with orks is never beaten and carve off either 6 termies or 3 termies+belial. Then you can probably skirmish out the game and win on scoring.

Realistically if you go full MSU, you'll have a maximum of maybe...six units on the board? and he'll have his pick of which one he wants to wipe off an objective every turn with his storm bolters at the very least. I think that's a losing proposition.

Boyz don't kill anything tanky. Lots of boyz could be a viable, if not even competitive, build but it's about board control, not killing stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:


The bonebreaka is an amazing unit, its definitely worth looking at as an investment option. Same with Burna Boys, burna bombers, and lootas. Heck, lootas with their deffguns will crunch terminators good!

Burnaboyz are probably the worst unit in the entire codex, stompa aside. Lootas got a massive nerf and they're also very bad at the moment. Smasha gunz are excellent in killing marines of any kinds. I'd also suggest buggies to kill stuff, and solo koptas as cheap scoring units. An empty Bonebreaka is viable as a distraction melee monster while the BW is hands down better if the ork player needs some heavy armored transport with good CC stats.

Yeah, I mean you could go for something like:

Deffskullz clan (Screw your tactical doctrine!)

Warboss with Klaw (Killa Klaw+BBK+Biggest Boss again because you always always want that)
Weirdboy

10x slugga boyz, big choppa nob
10x slugga boyz, choppa nob
10x shoota boyz, choppa nob

Rokkit kopta
Rokkit kopta

but I don't think that strategy would work very well, personally. The terminators bolters can sort out a squad of boyz per turn even with the 6++, you're going to probably kill 1 per shot with each kopta thanks to the excellent deffskullz rerolls, but you'll lose a kopta per turn to the missile launcher most likely. You'd do the same tactic of suiciding the boss into the squad to smack some of them around and you could try and smite with the weirdboy to take another terminator out or so, but I think your opponent would usually come out on top there. He only needs to hold 2 for a couple of turns to keep you from gaining any kind of lead, and he WILL win in any kind of melee against anything but the boss.

The boss is basically your only piece in this setup.

You could sub him out for the Manz running them with killsaws in the trukk. That'd kill the termies just as good as the boss would. The setup there would be something like

Warboss blah de blah 80
10 shoota boyz 80
Manz killsaws 135
Trukk 65
3 koptas 150

uhhhh

offer your opponent to run an extra 10pts in his list? Lol. Or run one of the koptas as "counts-as twin big shootas" to get rid of the extra points, and run that kopta as a pair with one of the rokkit koptas to tank for him.

That seems like it's got some legs.

NBC_Demo wrote:
Hey Guys,

i am pretty new to 40K. I played a few games against a friend (Dark Angels Player). We play Patrol Detachments (500P Games). I Play Orks. And he always Crushes me. Its not even Close and i Dont know how to counter it. Last few Game he fielded 1 Unit of 5 Scouts, 1 Belial and 1 Squad with 8 Deathwing Terminators. And he used "Auspex Scan" and Overwatch to kill my "da Jumped" Boyz, How do i Counter Terminators?! Some said to me: LOTS OF BOYZ, that doesnt work... i literally never inflicted a Wound on those Terminators ever with Boyz....


Any Help appreciated a lot.

if you need to I can give more Details about his Army.

Actually that list is quite easy to face with orks, as long as he respects the rules. So no Auspex on a "Da Jump" unit, which is invalid. Also, no deepstriking them because they are over half the points of the army.

What about a patrol with:

Warboss (power klaw, kustom shoota). Improved with Killa Klaw and Biggest Boss

19 boyz including nob with killsaw

Battlewagon with deff rolla (eventually Da Forktress)

2 solo kopta with rokkits.

Koptas go for objectives and fire pot shots, BW smash into SM units and unload its cargo where needed.

500 points match is not really balanced. 1000, 1500, 2000 point games is where its at, 500 point games are kinda like an intro to the hobby, it teaches you how to play the game and maybe have some fun, but thats about it.

Spoletta wrote:

Actually that list is quite easy to face with orks, as long as he respects the rules. So no Auspex on a "Da Jump" unit, which is invalid. Also, no deepstriking them because they are over half the points of the army.

Why is that? He said that da Jumped Units count as Reinforcements for Rules Purposes... how would you argue that?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
500 points match is not really balanced. 1000, 1500, 2000 point games is where its at, 500 point games are kinda like an intro to the hobby, it teaches you how to play the game and maybe have some fun, but thats about it.

Honestly i think we would have almost the same Game... He would just have 2 Squads of Terminators...i still wouldnt know what to do....

Spoletta wrote:

So no Auspex on a "Da Jump" unit, which is invalid.

This is completely incorrect. The Rare Rules section of the 9th BRB makes it explicit that if you're using abilities like Da Jump, the teleported unit counts as Reinforcements for rules purposes.

My philosophy would be the same. Rokkits on units like deffcoptas that their storm bolters are inefficient at hurting at range, killsaws abd other flat damage weapons (deff dread saws for example) on big punch melee units that can carve up a whole chunk of a squad at once.

Thats the general strategy. The only bad strategy is trying to overwhelm them with bodies tbh.

NBC_Demo wrote:
Hey Guys,

i am pretty new to 40K. I played a few games against a friend (Dark Angels Player). We play Patrol Detachments (500P Games). I Play Orks. And he always Crushes me. Its not even Close and i Dont know how to counter it. Last few Game he fielded 1 Unit of 5 Scouts, 1 Belial and 1 Squad with 8 Deathwing Terminators. And he used "Auspex Scan" and Overwatch to kill my "da Jumped" Boyz, How do i Counter Terminators?! Some said to me: LOTS OF BOYZ, that doesnt work... i literally never inflicted a Wound on those Terminators ever with Boyz....


Any Help appreciated a lot.

if you need to I can give more Details about his Army.

Then he cheated, because 8 DW termis, belial and 5 scouts are 555 points.

I still recommend bringing multiple units and focussing on the VP and not on the enemy. Use plenty of terrain, including obscuring stuff - this will make the game a lot more tactical. No unit should be able to guarantee being able to see whatever it wants to shoot.

I am going to be trying out adding meks into my lists (the cheap elites ones) exclusively to perform objective actions. I'll deliver them to objectives or deployment zones with a trukk and a unit of boys for cover, and the boys can get out and shoot anything nearby whilst the mek sits in the middle and repairs a teleport homer or something like that.

also, as p5freak pointed out, make sure he's got the points correct! 500pts vs 555 is like 2k vs 2220 - it'll make a hefty difference!

I don't know how viable it is, but it would certainly be a hard counter to get Ghazzy on the table. with his limit of 4 wounds per phase, and the unlikelihood of them taking those off outside the fight phase, ghazzy should have them termies running scared. And when he does connect, they will probably die horribly. Meanwhile, load up on little boys units to take objectives. can't remember ghazzies points, so you might not get much else!

Another option; as his termies are anti-infantry at ranged and anti-anything in CC, get a battlewagon, make it a gunwagon, give it the boomer and fire 4D6 S8 AP-2 D2 shots at him a turn from 48" away. Don't get close enough for him to charge! his stormbolters will wound on 6's, if they are even in range!

 some bloke wrote:


I don't know how viable it is, but it would certainly be a hard counter to get Ghazzy on the table. with his limit of 4 wounds per phase, and the unlikelihood of them taking those off outside the fight phase, ghazzy should have them termies running scared. And when he does connect, they will probably die horribly. Meanwhile, load up on little boys units to take objectives. can't remember ghazzies points, so you might not get much else!

Ghaz is 300 points. It's possible to take a spearhead with just him and 5 Smasha Gunz, which could be interesting. However the OP doesn't own any of those models so actual help involves tactics around the models he listed. Adding a single BW could be worthy, it's a unit that is good at any points format and could provide a lot of durability but also killiness thanks to deff rolla and even Ramming Speed in that specific game against DA.

I disagree with most of whats been said here tbh, and I hate that the tactics thread so quickly becomes a shopping list thread. The solution to this isn't "go buy this, go buy that, go buy this, then you'll win"

500pts games are a great little microcosm to learn the kind of tactics and maneuvers you're goign to need to use in bigger games, but with less gak to manage on your turn so it can become easy and clear, and what you have is an opportunity to learn "how to deal with a skew list"

A "Skew list" is a list that takes all, or nearly all, its points in just one type of unit, accepting the built-in weaknesses of that unit in order to get the advantage of invalidating a particular type of weapon. Another example of a skew list is "All ork boyz" - what are you going to do with all the antitank weapons you bought? Sure, all these ork boyz are slow, and sure, only so many can fight because there's so many they get in each others way, but you can't kill them all unless you brought a list with only weapons that kill infantry.

Sure, you can beat a list like that by running out and buying the thing that counters them, then running all that in your next game. You could go buy only weapons with good AP that deal flat 2 damage, throw those down on the table and you'd win the game, congrats.

It'd be better for you in the long run to learn how to take a list that isn't skewed, and still win the game. It is usually perfectly possible, if you resist the urge to get frustrated and give up.

You always have one default option, which some folks in the thread have highlighted: You can always play to score. Flood the objectives, rack up a big points lead, and play defense.

Typically I find this doesn't work great at 500pts, just because there's so little on the table and the table is so small, he'll probably manage to wipe you out in pretty quick order even with decent terrain.

My usual go-to is to look at my list, identify the thing that can be effective against my opponent's skew, and aim to launch it at my opponent as quickly as possible, which is almost always turn 2, in order to remove his ability to table me. THEN i spend the rest of the game playing defense, winning on score and accepting that I can't destroy his whole army.

An example of that would be, let's say I had an ork setup similar to you, and I was playing vs an opponent's imperial knights army in a full game. My opponent probably has about 5 models, and one of them is probably a big, nasty, shooty knight with the huge machine guns that can carve up tons of boyz.

I'm going to use all my anti-tank stuff, including my suicide killa klaw warboss, all at once against that one knight turn 2, and bring it down. Then, I know the remaining 4 knights don't stand a chance of actually wiping me out, and end of the day they're just 4 models, so I can easily prevent them from winning by scoring.

The key to being able to do this against a skew list is to look at your list, and recognize which parts of it aren't going to be useful to you.

Let's take the list I gave you above:

Killa klawboss
10 boyz killsaw nob
4 warbikes w/big choppa nob
1 trukk
3 deffkoptas

Looking at the list it's pretty clear that, OK, the warbikers are not going to be helpful to me in this scenario. They've got one big choppa but it's only AP-1, and all their other guns and weapons the terminators will save on 2s against. they can kill scouts, that's about it.

That means, that piece right there is the piece I want to use to make my opponent make a bad move. Because if I give it up, nothing bad happens to my gameplan. And the units I most want to protect is the deffcoptas and the warboss.

When I deploy, I probably have 1 really good piece of terrain I can put stuff behind. That's where the deffcoptas go - they're my top priority to not get shot at Turn 1. and the warbikes, I put those up front in my lines, and I put the trukk alongside them.

I anticipate my opponent will probably put his scouts somewhere near his back lines, and his terminators up front, where they'll walk at me and shoot. My hope is if I get second turn, I take 2 rockets on the trukk which should only do an average of like 2 unsaved wounds, and bolters into the bikes which should kill about 1 biker. If I get first turn, I'll drive the bikes up so they're about 10" from the Terminators, and shoot them at the Scouts, and I'll do the same thing in the second turn. My goal is to make my opponent think I'm making a mistake, giving him the opportunity to charge in early and use the terminators' power fists.

Bottom of turn 1/top of turn 2, my hope is that the terminators wipe out the bikes using their melee, and that I still have a trukk alive and about 12" away from where the terminators are. If I get that scenario, honestly? I've won the game already. The boss and killsaw nob is going to carve those terminators apart, leaving my opponent with maybe a couple scouts, maybe belial vs my mob of boyz, my 3 kopters, and my trukk. I just spend the rest of the game shooting belial with rokkits until he stops moving.

The only reason I was able to do that is because I understood the bikers were useless to me, but I didn't just throw them away and fling them straight at the enemy. I used them to get the enemy to move his big unit into the right position for me to nail them.

this is solid advice. If you can get him where you want to, we do have the tools for the job. al his points are tied up in termies, and whilst they are hard to kill without the tools, the same can be said for opening a tin without a tin opener. with the tin opener (in this case, the killaklaw boss and the killsaw nob) those termies are going to go down.

This also scales up to 1000pts just as well.

Let's say I'm running the following list:

Deffskullz battalion

Warboss killa klaw biggest boss etc 80
Weirdboy 65 warphead upgrade, da jump, warpath
30x choppaslugga boyz w/killsaw nob 250
10x gretchin 50
10x shoota boyz killsaw nob 90
trukk 65
kopters x3 150
bikers x3 with big choppa nob 86
Meganobz x3 with killsaws 135, pay 1cp to put these in deep strike
Deff Dread with 2x klaws 1x saw 1x Kustom mega blasta 105
996pts

And my opponent takes
DA Patrol
Belial
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
10x Terminators, 1 with TH/SS to block bullets, 1 with Cyclone
9x Terminators, 1 with Cyclone, in deep strike

What do I do about that? Well, I have a few more pieces on the board, and it's a little more complicated, but at the end of the day I need to use the same strategy to succeed.

Deployment, I hide my rokkit koptas because I know the best use he's got for his two missiles on the board is to shoot down a rokkit kopta or 2 with lucky rolls. somewhere they're behind Obscuring terrain but where they can still pop out and shoot 24" away at the footslogging terminators. I put my bikes and my trukk and my dread forwarrd, and I hang back wth the boyz, because the best use for his storm bolters is shooting them and they can deep strike when the time is right anyway.

My goal is to use turn 2 to kill at least 1 of the 2 terminator squads, past that point, I can ride out the game and win by scoring. If I go first I can try to move up my bikes and lure the foot terminator squad into the middle of the board so I can hit them my turn 2, if he's cagey with them until the deep strike comes in, I keep a perimeter around my Koptas and Deff Dread and I make sure to use shooting to take out the one Storm Shield terminator. Once the deep strike comes in, I have four good units that can charge into terminators and do a lot of damage:

1 - warboss using Orks is Never Beaten, can take out about 7 or 8
2 - Boyz with 20+ bodies and Warpath - can kill about 4
3 - Deff Dread, can kill 3 or 4
4 - MANz, can kill about 3.

What I want to not do is charge both full strength terminator squads with important suicide units in the same turn, because they will interrupt. I want to try and get (for example) the warboss and Deff Dread into one, and fight with the warboss, then if the remaining 4 or so interrupt and fight back they're not likely to be able to kill the dreadnought and if they kill the boss he just Orks is Never Beaten and krumps them more.

If I have to contend with two squads at once what I'll do is take my useless units - shoota boyz, trukk, bikes - and move them up 1" away from the termiantor squad I'm not going to fight that turn. This prevents them from moving towards me and offers them only targets I don't care about. From then on, I'll fling one suicide squad per turn at the remaining terminators to reduce their numbers while I continue to shoot them with rokkits, score objectives, and kill scouts with any shootas, big shootas, etc I have in range.

This already Sounds Pretty Good. And I like the „I try to beat with what I got“ approach. Not just because it’s cheaper but also I am a slow painter and it forces you to think more about the game

However, some questions:

1. when my Trukk is 12“ away, I have to disembark my Stuff in the movement Phase, and can’t move then right? So it’s unlikely I make that charge with the boss/boyz... am I missing something?

2. he created the list with Battlescribe and it shows 503 points.... not 555. he sent it to me. It says 503. and im Shute he didnt Photoshop it.

3. what if he teleport strikes me turn one? Looks like those reserves don’t have to wait till turn 2.

"As for units with built-in Deepstriking abilities like Terminators with a Teleportarium, GSC’s Cult Ambush, etc. they can still be put into reserves and come on the board without having to worry about costing CP. You’re essentially paying the points for that added mobility of the unit.

It’s worth pointing out at this stage that, if your units have abilities that enable them to set up somewhere other than the battlefield (such as a teleportarium chamber for the Teleport Strike ability of Terminators or when using the Cult Ambush ability of the Genestealer Cults), the Strategic Reserves rules don’t apply to them."

For me it is really difficult to know what I can do and what I can’t. There are so many Rules and exceptions, pretty hard to have everything in mind as a beginner... and also to know what my opponent can do, feels like rules don’t apply to SM.

BTW I already have bought Ghazghkull, don’t know why I Forgot to mention that. Probably because I thought it would not matter for 500P. He is not Build or painted yet. Wanted to practice a little bit more before I go at it. But I love the Model, so I had to get him

Also a Little Rant: it feels incredibly frustrating if you see your Opponent hitting on 2+ rerolling 1 whilst getting tabled. it feels like why bother rolling at all. (Although i get it makes a Differenz in some occasions) and you hit on 5+ and out of 80 shots you make like 4 wounds vs a bike.

Thx for all your help guys, much appreciated!

You get out of the vehicle before the vehicle moves, then you can move both the unit and the vehicle like normal. As for t1 deep strike I suggest you guys play with match played rules. Match play has the rules that

1. No ds until t2
2. You must have half your armys point value on the table beginning of the game.


This stops things like a 500 pt army with only scouts starting on the table. And if all he has is belial, terms, and scouts, that will stop his ds capabilities in its tracks.

Do you happen to have any weird boys? Psycic powers could help you a lot in this situation.