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Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

What's that? A change to the core rules to buff Space Marines? Say it ain't so!

Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

Could be useful for real elite armies.

Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.

Yes. Quite why is a mystery, but this has been the case for the last 3 years.

tneva82 wrote:

Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.

I'm not going to check for my own santiy. I thought it was always 0-3 and that was the point of the.. oh I forget which one - Spearhead? Detach was for extra elites. No wonder people have been looking at me funny for so long when I talked about the Medics/champions/etc being split out. OK I checked. And I think I'm losing my mind over all the times I fought with this and didn't have to.

Well vanguard(the extra elite one) gave you detachment with plenty elites without troop tax. Also gave you extra CP in 8e so if you had 3 HQ and 3+ elites only reason to NOT take vanguard was you already had 3 detachments. So not that surprising you miss because generally you had tons of slots due to multiple detachments.

Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

tneva82 wrote:
Well vanguard(the extra elite one) gave you detachment with plenty elites without troop tax. Also gave you extra CP in 8e so if you had 3 HQ and 3+ elites only reason to NOT take vanguard was you already had 3 detachments. So not that surprising you miss because generally you had tons of slots due to multiple detachments.

Nah, I usually did single detach lists, when I added a second Detach it was usually for a LOW, or Flyers or something. Even had I known this I wouldn't have been at 6 Elites, but most of my lists started at 4 Elites and then got trimmed to three for the max I THOUGHT I had.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

If you were doing SM and trying to mimic the Command Squad from previous it would cost you 4 Elites slots all on it's own - when it used to be 1HQ or zero slots if taken with an HQ. 1 Slot for the Squad, 1 for the Ancient, 1 for the Champion, 1 for the Apothecary.

I think the reason was units like command squads no longer being one squad, or characters like repentia mistresses being cut out of their units. You ended up with a lot of loose characters that you didn’t want in the HQ slot.

Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.

Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.

I think most factions actually have a fortification. It’s been a trend lately. Who doesn’t?

 Nevelon wrote:

Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.

I think most factions actually have a fortification. It’s been a trend lately. Who doesn’t?

SM only have the ROB tile.
Generic CSM does, Specific CSM (WorldEaters/Death Guard/TKSons/Emperor's Children) do not but might be able to use the CSM generic one I don't know.
Necrons only have a ROB tile
Only Harlequins have one from Eldar
IG don't.

There are a lot of old fortificaitons that are unaligned and might get a rework to get <Imperium> or similar. The Harlequinn Eldar Webway might go Eldar wide or maybe it already is, and just isn't listed as such where I'm looking.

Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.

If it can be used by other armies, then it is great. I often want to have more elite opitons then I can fit in to a batalion slot.

2-3 paladin units, 2 apothecaries, maybe an ancient and maybe a my new dreadnought, if GW ever update GK with primaris dreadnough models.

 Nevelon wrote:
Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.

The big keyword doesn't work if you want to keep Chapter Tactics. Have to use the <Chapter> keyword - I assume the Klans/Septs etc work the same way? New Models/units was one of the things I wondered wasn't being foreshadowed. So you get the 1CP refund, but you lose your chapter tactic or equivalent.

Breton wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.

The big keyword doesn't work if you want to keep Chapter Tactics. Have to use the <Chapter> keyword - I assume the Klans/Septs etc work the same way? New Models/units was one of the things I wondered wasn't being foreshadowed. So you get the 1CP refund, but you lose your chapter tactic or equivalent.

You don't lose chapter tactics, or other factions equivalents, if you have a second detachment that shares a faction keyword. You will, however, lose doctrines if you're playing Loyalist Dogs and the second detachment doesn't share the CHAPTER keyword with your other detachments. That's just a loyalists "problem".

As others pointed out 0-6 Elites in Battalion are because many Pre-8th Edition Elite units that had character-like models in them (Company Champion, Apothecary, etc) were split out into being separate units. They had to give enough slots in a Battalion or Brigade to allow you to use them.

As for Faction-specific Fortification that allows the CP Refund, we have:
Various Tau options like the Tidewall Shieldline
Adepta Sororitas Battle Sanctum
The Chaos Necolith Crown
The Nurgle Feculant Gnarlmaw
The Ork Mekboy Workshop
The Genestealer Cults Tectonic Fragdrill

And I'm not sure that is all of the ones that are not Unaligned.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

Guard players. Command Squads are Elite choices, as are Veterans. Both are ways to bring Vox-Casters to the field, since Commanders don't get Vox-Casters as wargear for some dumb reason.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

Can't comment on 9th, since playing games isn't happening for awhile here...but again, there's definitely armies out there which can benefit from the multiple Elite choices due to 'utility' characters in Elite.

Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.

To be any use they would first need to either release whole bunch of SMALL ones or rework rules. As is for example sister one became rather unplayable as you need more or less 11"x11" square of empty plot somewhere in your deployment zone(preferably) or within 6" of table edge(where you could at least outflank with strategic reserve though no benefit from it until T3 is still harsh...).

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

Bloody rose Sisters of battle straight up don't work with less than 6 slots. Ideally we'd want 8 but that's not worth 3 CP. The problem is you're thinking 'well I only need 3 of my elite unit' not 'my 2 best melee units I want to run multiples of plus their associated buff characters are all elites choices'.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.

Blood Angels are another good example. As well as all the usual Marine Elites, most of the Blood Angel "flavour" units go there too (Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, all the Dreads).
They also get a lot more use out of Vanguard than the more fluffy Fast Attack slot Assault Marines, sad as that fact is.

ccs wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.

Lucky you. Mine are all HS, the most crowded section in the codex.

 Blackie wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.

Lucky you. Mine are all HS, the most crowded section in the codex.

Oh I've got plenty of those as well.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

Guard come to mind:

Commissars
Platoon Commanders
Wyrdvane Psykers
Astropaths
Ratlings
Veterans

I find the first 2 can be very handy, the Psykers are helpful, and I don't really use the last 2, but I have seen other people spam them...

Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites

As others have said, it's been that way since the beginning of 8th - which is somewhere between 3-5 years (they are starting to run together for me lol).


Y

eah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

There are several armies who almost literally can't function without them. Death Guard comes to mind for example. GSC if I'm not mistaken? Anyone wanting to play a Dreadnaught marine army would need 6 - there's actually a lot of armies and builds that need those slots but aren't exploiting or abusing it imo.

Tyel wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.

Yes. Quite why is a mystery, but this has been the case for the last 3 years.

GW split up a bunch of the "Command Squad" style units into small, supporting characters usually in the Elites slot.

EX: Ravenwing Command Squad became Ravenwing Champ, Ravenwing Apoth, Ravenwing Ancient.

Regimental Advisors became Astropath, Master of the Fleet, Master of Ordnance, all Elites.

I actually never noticed, and when looking, it struck me that Brigades don't even continue the trend and just include 8 Elites. Where is the logic in that?

I often run at least 4 elites but can easily fit 6.

Terminators, contemptors, berzerkers, chosen, possessed, greater possessed being the main ones I like to use and most of these I feel require them to be taken in pairs.

I really noticed the change to my list design when before it didn't matter.