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Yeah, it doesn't really seem that feedback is making much of an impact, given that a(n average result from a) "Dual Turbo-Laser Destructor point-blank to the face" is less than half the firepower necessary to past this Marty Stu.

NeoAigaion wrote:
I have a google document with Adamas' latest profile. Also added another Star Panthers character.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aUFw2a5WOVXSoyVeZYS_Q9NvcIuadHHklumTlMYd4-A/edit?usp=sharing

Feedback will continue to be welcomed.

I'm not a fan of halving the amount of damage Adamas takes. Reducing incoming damage by 1 was powerful, frustrating for Dd3 damage weapons, and made D3 need an extra wound to put him down. Halving incoming damage turns even Dd6 weapons into basically Dd3 weapons and makes all D2 weapons just D1 (meaning you'd need to get 6 wounds past his saves and FNP to put him down. The FNP on top of halving damage makes it extra annoying to face.

If I were you, I'd pick one of the following:
* 3+ invul (it's going away for smash captains, but we've been killing smash captains for a while now)
* 5+ FNP
* Reduce damage by 1

Any one of those rules will convey the idea that this guy's armor is tougher than usual. No need to put a hat on a hat. Double-dipping on buffs of the same type (so having multiple defensive buffs or multiple offensive buffs) tends to quickly get out of hand.

Some thoughts on Daelo:
* What kind of weapon is Stormstriker? I feel like you're going for some sort of lightning/EMP weapon, in which case you might want to consider stealing the haywire weapon rules.
* Your master-crafted heavy bolter will just be a normal heavy bolter when the new marine update comes around.
* Toughness 6? The idea being that he's wearing gravis armor (T5) that has been improved to give him a 2+ save instead of a 3+ save, but also his armor is so good that it offers an extra +1 Toughness on top of that and also has a built-in forcefield that no other tech priest could figure out how to make?

What's the elevator pitch for this guy? In one sentence, what's his fluff? Because everything about him seems like you took a standard tech priest and just gave it a raw power boost. All of his weapons except the servo-arm are just straight up better versions of their non-mastercrafted counterparts. He has the Faith & Fury ability that makes him better than the average tech priest at patching up vehicles. His gravis armor is superior to every other suit of gravis armor in the galaxy in 3 different ways (better save, better Toughness, has an invul). And on top of that, he gets to heal himself automatically every turn.

How comfortable are you explaining to your opponent that your tech priest is better than his tech priest in every way? And is your fluff explanation something other than, "I guess my guy is just smarter and better at technology than yours"?

You might see if you can find the rules for Lias Issodon floating around. I'm not sure he survived the transition to 9th, but he's generally been a pretty good example over the years of a named marine character that is different from but not better than other chapter masters. His melee weapon, iirc, is just a humble power sword. He has a special gun that shoots some decent dakka, but nothing that will turn the tide of battle. I think he's generally had a 2+ armor save from basically artificer armor; not terminator armor with an invul and built in deepstrike. Not super special armor with a bunch of special rules. Just a hardy 2+ armor save. When other marines had the ability to blast a chunk of the board with an orbital bombardment, he instead got to do a couple of wounds before the game started representing sabotage and booby traps. His biggest selling point is that he's always let you sneak forward (via infiltrate, outflank, or pregame scout style deployment depending on the edition) with units that normally wouldn't be allowed to sneak forward like that.

He's not a powerhouse. He's not unkillable. An army with him in it plays differently from an army without him. That's a good target to aim for when making characters. I don't want to discourage you in your homebrewing efforts. We've all made over the top super duper versions of generic characters at one point or another. But how would you describe as Adamas other than saying he's, "A lightning claw jump pack captain but better." What is Daelo other than, "a tech priest but better?"

Wyldhunt wrote:
TLDR: Reasonable feedback being taken under advisement. Thankyou Wyldhunt

Just some points of my own.

- Abaddon has 2+/4++/half damage and a Sx2/AP-4/Dd3 melee weapon. How is that any different from 2+/4++/half damage and a S+1/AP5/D2 melee weapon? Just saying. At least my guy hasn't failed 12 times in 10000 years.

- Daelo was in part inspired by Iron Father Ferrios from the Iron Hands. I also like his model, which I deemed appropriate for Daelo's character, given that Primaris Techmarines don't have a model...yet? Stat wise, he has T6 because Gravis Armour is T5 and The Endurant Protector gives +1 Toughness and a 4++ save. Daelo is the chapter's Master of the Forge after all, so it too felt appropriate. I originally thought of putting him on a bike with a conversion beamer instead.

- Stormstriker is nothing more than a Master-Crafted Power Axe (D2 instead of D1) that is good at damaging vehicles (hence wounding them on 2+). I thought of giving Daelo the Mortis Machina instead, but then thought that Stormstriker might be a good compromise.

- Similarly, the Boseman Claws are souped up Lightning Claws. In part based on Black Panther's Vibranium claws, and also in part by the High-Frequency Blades from the Metal Gear Solid games (MG Rising in particular). A video from the Death Battle channel on YouTube, where Raiden fought Wolverine (and won), also helped me out. The Boseman Claws are close to Lufgt Huron's Ghost Razors, but with fixed damage and no messing with invulnerable saves.


The Star Panthers have been in development for some time now. Originally they were going to be called the Cyberian Angels, or the Celestial Dragons. Regardless of the name changes, I've always intended them to be technologically capable. Not to the level of pre-Imperial humanity of course, but maybe above average compared to most other chapters.

Their Intecessors won't be running around with flawless Rapid-Fire Plasma Guns, nor will their Librarians have so much power that they can snap their fingers and banish Aetaos’rau’keres in one try. Fun as that would be in fluff, even I recognise the silliness of translating it to the game.

Wyldhunt wrote:

- Abaddon has 2+/4++/half damage and a Sx2/AP-4/Dd3 melee weapon. How is that any different from 2+/4++/half damage and a S+1/AP5/D2 melee weapon? Just saying. At least my guy hasn't failed 12 times in 10000 years.

Except Abaddon is over 10'000 years a veteran of the great war, was present at the battle at the golden palace, and is supported by the collective will and power of all 4 chaos gods. No chapter master alive would even be able to come close to Competing with Abaddon. the only being in lore that could even bring Abaddon to an even fight would probably be Roboute Gulliman himself. And unfortunately, your Chapter Master is not a primarch. When making a custom character (That you would like to be able to use in game) you use a base profile, choose his equipment, and then with agreement of your opponent, choose minor boosts that you can find comparative rules for where the models mirror one another and don't overstretch.

NeoAigaion wrote:

- Similarly, the Boseman Claws are souped up Lightning Claws. In part based on Black Panther's Vibranium claws, and also in part by the High-Frequency Blades from the Metal Gear Solid games (MG Rising in particular). A video from the Death Battle channel on YouTube, where Raiden fought Wolverine (and won), also helped me out. The Boseman Claws are close to Lufgt Huron's Ghost Razors, but with fixed damage and no messing with invulnerable saves.

AP-5 Does not equal souped up lightning claws. The claws of the black hunt in lore have such a ferocious power field that they can cut at a yards distance from the blades, And that's at AP-3. if you want ridiculous AP, you're better off dropping the claws for a power sword. you don't take claws for the AP, you take claws for the reroll to wound. AP-2 is just icing on the cake.