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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
...Reloading gun? You got it.
Holding gun under arm? You got it.
One handed gun? You got it.
Pointing finger? You got it.
Auspex arm? You got it.
Slung bolter and pistol drawn? You got it.
Gun aiming down sights? Gun aimed down at hip? Gun angled upwards? Gun in relaxed waist height? You got em.
Older head? Younger head? Angry head? Mohawk head? You got em.
Helmet with a hole in specifically to be hung on the waist? You got it.
A wide range of shoulder pads with Mk.V, amulets and ropes hung from them? Miniature reliquaries and comms devices? Pouches and holsters for every model? Tilting plates and custom purity seals? All there...

Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
...Reloading gun? You got it.
Holding gun under arm? You got it.
One handed gun? You got it.
Pointing finger? You got it.
Auspex arm? You got it.
Slung bolter and pistol drawn? You got it.
Gun aiming down sights? Gun aimed down at hip? Gun angled upwards? Gun in relaxed waist height? You got em.
Older head? Younger head? Angry head? Mohawk head? You got em.
Helmet with a hole in specifically to be hung on the waist? You got it.
A wide range of shoulder pads with Mk.V, amulets and ropes hung from them? Miniature reliquaries and comms devices? Pouches and holsters for every model? Tilting plates and custom purity seals? All there...

Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

Manlet Marines barely get that too to be fair. I got all those things you mentioned from the FW melee weapon packs.

Here is most of my Tacticus armor Primaris marines. I am not not much for modeling. I can tell you while there was some kitbashing and modding for these models, it should be pretty obvious that is just melee weapon options cut at the wrist mostly. Otherwise the models are pretty much what you can build out their respective kits along with a few ETB models (mostly the basic Hellblasters). If I look closely I can see a couple of pretty close to same pose as well as can note which legs are the same. But taking a more general tabletop look at them I don't really see the repeats all that closely.

Everyone has to remember that Primaris come with more than 1 set of arms per model in their kit. Not to mention a lot of range of motion can be hidden under those big marine pauldrons. Which to be sure models that don't have things like huge shoulder pads are less easy to get more poses out of. Primaris space marines, like the marines before them; still remain pretty easy to convert. Which I as someone that is far from an expert at modeling (I think I am rubbish at it in fact) is willing to attempt a few things which I would like to think worked out well enough. One of my favorite posed models in my collection is that Intercessor Sergeant in the lower left with the power sword in the 'en garde' position.

The spoiler below is my Reivers which had even less parts to work with to give them different poses. If you ignore the chain swords, which if you wanted to re-angle the knives anyways, I think I managed to get in quite a number of differing poses. Granted one-handed weapons are super easy to re-postion. Edit: The most heavily modded Reiver is the left-handed one as I ran out of left hand chain swords and had to use a right handed one.

AnomanderRake wrote:Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

Do Tacticals have that? Only on the Sergeant, who would look different anyway. We're talking about the generic squad mooks, the ones who would otherwise look the same if not for better posing and details.

Yeah, that's not quite the gotcha there.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

Do Tacticals have that? Only on the Sergeant, who would look different anyway. We're talking about the generic squad mooks, the ones who would otherwise look the same if not for better posing and details.

Yeah, that's not quite the gotcha there.

Tell you what, you build a box of Intercessors and I'll build a box of Tacticals and we can compare. Deal?

The new monopose stuff is boring. Yes, with a lot of effort you can cut them up and repose them. But that's the point: you didn't have to do that with the older kits that gave you more options.

The best kits are from the 2010ish to 2017ish era, when you got stuff like the Rubric kit or the Harlequin Troupe kit - fantastic kits that generally combine dynamic fixed leg poses with fully fully customizable and posable models from the waist up.

I'd take that Rubric kit every day over the Plague Marine kit, for example.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The old metal kits weren't just mono-pose, a lot of them were single-piece. People still cut those up for weapon swaps or just to pose them differently. A mono-pose plastic kit is worlds easier to do that with.

Personally I haven't had much issue with kit-bashing off the current set of Marine kits.

Not to mention the utter horrors of assembling metal models like a Bloodthirster or Abaddon the armless. I had to learn how to use tiny drills and pins just to HOPE that the model stays put.

OMG! How terrible, you had to learn the skills associated with the model building side of our hobby of the time.

ccs wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The old metal kits weren't just mono-pose, a lot of them were single-piece. People still cut those up for weapon swaps or just to pose them differently. A mono-pose plastic kit is worlds easier to do that with.

Personally I haven't had much issue with kit-bashing off the current set of Marine kits.

Not to mention the utter horrors of assembling metal models like a Bloodthirster or Abaddon the armless. I had to learn how to use tiny drills and pins just to HOPE that the model stays put.

OMG! How terrible, you had to learn the skills associated with the model building side of our hobby of the time.

I've never understood the complaints about metal minis- the work required is what it is, and the detail from metal is lovely.

I don't get how someone can look at model ranges, say, Eldar, with so many pretty models, and bitch about them needing replacements "badly," or being "outdated," either. Considering the new banshees, and the AOS elves, I'd rather GW stay the hell away from my space elves until such time as they can be done properly, if it ever comes.

More OT- the answer to the original question depends on what makes a "better" model. Since the launch of AOS and the style carrying over to 40k, I have seen few, if any, new kits I would call "better" than the previous incarnation. Yes, there's more detail- nearly always terribly superfluous.

The new Celestine is gorgeous, but I wouldn't say she's outright "better" than the old one. I quite enjoy the older style minis- so much character and fun in them.

Can't speak about all metal models for all armies, but I do have a metal Caldor Draigo and bunch of termintors, and they seem to me, to have more detail then plastic GK strikes or Voldus.

Blastaar wrote:


I've never understood the complaints about metal minis- the work required is what it is, and the detail from metal is lovely.

IME, 99% of people's so-called issues with metal come down to gak glue.

"Oh no, this heavy model won't glue together with this glue that is mostly water that I got for 20 for a £1 at the market!" Well, no gak Sherlock. Get some quality glue like Gorilla glue instead of cheaping out and most of those issues will disappear.

Metal (actual lead in my day ) minis were a pain for me too. I'm not the mosty crafty of people and I can't say I hated them or anything but I really prefer working with plastic.

Blastaar wrote:
Considering the new banshees, and the AOS elves, I'd rather GW stay the hell away from my space elves until such time as they can be done properly, if it ever comes.

Mmm, one of my least favourite transitions from metal to plastic was the Dark Elf Executioners and Black Guard. Their metal kits each had a completely distinct visual style. The armour they wore was completely different, which perfectly served to highlight that although these units might be fighting in the same army, they each came from very different places.

When they were redone in plastic they were how a multikit, which meant that clear visual distinction between their armour styles was reduced to a head swap.

We weren't seeing that the armourers in service of the Cult of Khaine were completely different to those directy serving the Witch King in Naggarond any more. Now they both used the same template. Real shame.

Yes but I don't think it was a price worth paying. The models of a couple of years ago when they were still mainly multiple were still good quality. I'd rather have more options and less quality since I find too many models now have a little too much detail.

Insectum7 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

Do Tacticals have that? Only on the Sergeant, who would look different anyway. We're talking about the generic squad mooks, the ones who would otherwise look the same if not for better posing and details.

Yeah, that's not quite the gotcha there.

Tell you what, you build a box of Intercessors and I'll build a box of Tacticals and we can compare. Deal?

Without any extra cutting or bits from other kits? Like, purely cut from sprue, and glue on? Genuinely, I'd take you up on that.

If only I had a box of Intercessors which I hadn't already built!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Insectum7 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Left-handed ranged weapons? Right-handed melee weapons?

...We'll get back to you guys on that...

Do Tacticals have that? Only on the Sergeant, who would look different anyway. We're talking about the generic squad mooks, the ones who would otherwise look the same if not for better posing and details.

Yeah, that's not quite the gotcha there.

Tell you what, you build a box of Intercessors and I'll build a box of Tacticals and we can compare. Deal?

Without any extra cutting or bits from other kits? Like, purely cut from sprue, and glue on? Genuinely, I'd take you up on that.

If only I had a box of Intercessors which I hadn't already built!

I've got NIB tacticals. I'm ready when you are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blastaar wrote:

ccs wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The old metal kits weren't just mono-pose, a lot of them were single-piece. People still cut those up for weapon swaps or just to pose them differently. A mono-pose plastic kit is worlds easier to do that with.

Personally I haven't had much issue with kit-bashing off the current set of Marine kits.

Not to mention the utter horrors of assembling metal models like a Bloodthirster or Abaddon the armless. I had to learn how to use tiny drills and pins just to HOPE that the model stays put.

OMG! How terrible, you had to learn the skills associated with the model building side of our hobby of the time.

I've never understood the complaints about metal minis- the work required is what it is, and the detail from metal is lovely.

I don't get how someone can look at model ranges, say, Eldar, with so many pretty models, and bitch about them needing replacements "badly," or being "outdated," either. Considering the new banshees, and the AOS elves, I'd rather GW stay the hell away from my space elves until such time as they can be done properly, if it ever comes.

More OT- the answer to the original question depends on what makes a "better" model. Since the launch of AOS and the style carrying over to 40k, I have seen few, if any, new kits I would call "better" than the previous incarnation. Yes, there's more detail- nearly always terribly superfluous.

The new Celestine is gorgeous, but I wouldn't say she's outright "better" than the old one. I quite enjoy the older style minis- so much character and fun in them.

Yeah I definitely think some of the metal models are still better than their plastic replacements. Celestine would be one of them. SM Scouts, Terminators and both Calgars would be some others.

To be honest I don't think an Intercessor/Tactical comparison is the way to go here. The Intercessor box is varied enough that it's not really the subject of many people's gripes when they talk about the more recent "monopose" models.
You could instead look at every Space Marine Captain currently available, compared to the old multipart box. Or Plague Marines, which look varied enough individually, but have set leg/torso combos that don't allow for different poses, so that there's going to be duplication if you have more than one unit.

mrFickle wrote:
Just got a box of start collecting CSM and they are nice models but no longer in the arms legs torso etc fashion. Is this just the trade off

My main issue is when it's in armies that take a lot of that unit. Having a squad of marines that can only be in a couple of poses isn't a big deal because odds are you're only taking 1 to 2 squads. An army like guard or orks though, it sucks because you will have a lot of models and sameposes are easy to pick out. I say this, but I have a whole metal Cadian army where every single sarge, special weapon, and officer has the same pose, so I admit I'm a bit hypocritical there

My other issue is that they're difficult to get milage out of bits in the new kits. I tried the new csm box and while it looks great, it was very frustrating trying to kit them out with bits I already had like extra special and heavy weapons. Each arm has a specific paired arm and they don't like it when you try to change what's in it, even something as simple as changing a Bolter to a melta or whatever. Whereas guard and orks can build almost their entire infantry roster with the basic infantry kit and spare bits. I don't like how the new kits discourage customization and kitbashing. The trade off is they look good even when a complete newbie puts them together, and I understand I'm not the target market.

I personally would prefer going back to the old method, but I completely understand why others like the new kits more

Super Ready wrote:You could instead look at every Space Marine Captain currently available, compared to the old multipart box.

The old multipart Captain was a godsend, but let's not forget that GW also made a monopose Captain with the combi-grav before they made the current Primaris Captain. The Primaris even has more options than THAT one!

Really, that multipart Captain was the gold standard of what generic HQ kits should be. Not every weapon, sure, but enough to spec for most things, and plenty of bits to bling out other models if wanted. The closest model I can think that comes to that is the Cadian Company Commander, and that's largely because it comes in a box with other Cadians.

Yeah, I have to admit, I do wonder whether specifically choosing the Marine Captain is using it as an unfair example, considering how spoiled we were with it.
Aside from the Cadian commander, the generic Chaos Terminator HQs are still really good too (the Lord and Sorcerer) but then, they're both older models from around the same time as that Captain. Soooooo...

So having started to assemble the start collecting CSM figures I can say that assembly is much quicker and easier than older kits that offer more options.

So getting to point where I can paint them is gonna come much quicker and I have often found assembling units too tedious.

As long as the models look good I think I’m happy with it however I am a bit concerned about the options provided around which heavy and special weapon a unit has.

I can see how GW have made the decision to take this route and I now have a stronger feeling that this has influenced the change of tactic with SM units having gear options to all soldiers I a unit having the same gear.

Question is will players find it as much fun

I have read metal celestine is better than the new celestine.

Enough geriatric-hammer for today.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Blastaar wrote:


I've never understood the complaints about metal minis- the work required is what it is, and the detail from metal is lovely.

IME, 99% of people's so-called issues with metal come down to gak glue.

"Oh no, this heavy model won't glue together with this glue that is mostly water that I got for 20 for a £1 at the market!" Well, no gak Sherlock. Get some quality glue like Gorilla glue instead of cheaping out and most of those issues will disappear.

Gorilla glue also provides more value because it doesn't dry out/clog. I actually end up using all of it instead of throwing half the bottle away.

 Galas wrote:
I have read metal celestine is better than the new celestine.

Enough geriatric-hammer for today.

The old model is graceful and statuesque, and manages holy presence without being giant. The new model is pretty lame in comparison imo.

I just assembled 30 sororitas and the variety and the customization of the kit is amazing. None of the 30 are alike. The ability to swap is still there and the kits have way more options than my marines old kits. I am talking about three boxes of the same kit (well, I got a couple of Amalias Novenas intermingled to add more customization) and I think I could still experiment further. Also, it's a kit with well over 20 different heads.

I am really happy with the amount of posing and experimenting you can do with them. I guess if I ever assemble more I'd go town with the cutter and the green stuff to swap even more things.

Yes, new sororitas' kits are truly amazing and a well appreciated exception compared to most of the other recent releases which are pretty dull instead.