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Like my other two army lists I recently put here, I lack most of the knowledge I require to get started again. I haven't played since 5th edition and I have never played a loyalist marine force. Primaris are completely new to me as I have only just gotten back into the hobby due to Covid lockdowns. Please give me an idea of how to assemble what I have into a decent force for normal friendly games. Unfortunately my collection is really all over the place, so I have models from a number of different sub-factions with their own rules. On the upside, most of my models are either unpainted or painted differently from any established faction that I know about so they should be relatively available for any sub-faction as a successor or something similar. Not really sure how those new (to me) rules work.
Side note, this is what I believe my army to be after looking through the models, but may not be exactly accurate due to miscounts and lack of appropriate knowledge. I will start with generic SM, then chapter specific ones, and lastly Primaris since all I have are NoS. I also have some Inquisition models, but I'm not including them here because I don't know how common it is to include them in a non-Grey Knights SM force. They are included in my IG/Inquisition list if you want to see those.
Generic Marines
HQ
2xCaptain w/Power sword and storm bolter
2xCaptain in Terminator Armor w/Power sword and storm bolter
1xChaplain w/Bolt pistol
1xChaplain in Terminator Armor w/Storm bolter
2xTechmarine w/Tech axe and bolt pistol
8xMarines in need of repair but I have enough extra parts to equip them with boltguns at least
10xScout w/CC (two each of old metal, presumably two are Sgt)
1xScout w/Heavy bolter
1Scout w/Sniper rifle
Elites
2xApothecary
2xAncient w/boltgun
1xDreadnought w/Assault cannon and CC w/storm bolter
2xDreadnought w/Multi-melta and CC w/storm bolter
1xDreadnought w/Twin lascannon and CC w/heavy flamer
1xVenerable Dreadnought w/Heavy plasma cannon and fist CC w/storm bolter (some options here as arms are not glued and I have other options unassembled)
4xTerminator Sgt w/Power sword and storm bolter
14xTerminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xTerminator w/Thunder hammer and storm shield
3xTerminator w/Cyclone missile launcher
1xTerminator w/Heavy flamer and power fist
Heavy Support
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and boltgun (use as Dev Sgt in this case since I have no other Vets)
1xDevastator w/Lascannon
1xDevastator w/Heavy bolter
1xDevastator w/Multi-melta
2xVindicator w/Pintle storm bolter
Ultramarines
Cheif Librarian Tigurius (old model)
Dark Angels
HQ
1xDV Librarian w/Force sword and bolt pistol
1xDV Master w/Boltgun and power sword
1xApothecary w/Chainsword (seems to be converted from Veteran, but has the backpack, head, and left arm of an Apothecary)
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and bolt pistol
1xVeteran w/Chainsword and storm shield
7xVeteran w/Boltgun
1xVeteran w/Plasma gun
1xDV Deathwing Terminator Sgt w/Storm bolter and power sword
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Chainfist and storm bolter
2xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Assault cannon and power fist
Captain (Cortez) w/Boltgun and power fist
Ancient (25th) w/Plasma pistol and power fist
Legion of the Damned
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword and boltgun
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword
1xLegionair w/Chainsword and bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Power fist and hand flamer
5xLegionair w/Boltgun
2xLegionair w/Combi-flamer
1xLegionair w/Flamer
2xLegionair w/Plasma gun
2xLegionair w/Melta gun
1xLegionair w/Heavy bolter
Primaris
All Primaris NoS for now while I work back into the hobby
I am also trying to get a Dark Imperium box as well, so feel free to include units from that if you want
SergentSilver wrote: Like my other two army lists I recently put here, I lack most of the knowledge I require to get started again. I haven't played since 5th edition and I have never played a loyalist marine force. Primaris are completely new to me as I have only just gotten back into the hobby due to Covid lockdowns. Please give me an idea of how to assemble what I have into a decent force for normal friendly games. Unfortunately my collection is really all over the place, so I have models from a number of different sub-factions with their own rules. On the upside, most of my models are either unpainted or painted differently from any established faction that I know about so they should be relatively available for any sub-faction as a successor or something similar. Not really sure how those new (to me) rules work.
Side note, this is what I believe my army to be after looking through the models, but may not be exactly accurate due to miscounts and lack of appropriate knowledge. I will start with generic SM, then chapter specific ones, and lastly Primaris since all I have are NoS. I also have some Inquisition models, but I'm not including them here because I don't know how common it is to include them in a non-Grey Knights SM force. They are included in my IG/Inquisition list if you want to see those.
Generic Marines
HQ
2xCaptain w/Power sword and storm bolter
2xCaptain in Terminator Armor w/Power sword and storm bolter
1xChaplain w/Bolt pistol
1xChaplain in Terminator Armor w/Storm bolter
2xTechmarine w/Tech axe and bolt pistol
8xMarines in need of repair but I have enough extra parts to equip them with boltguns at least
10xScout w/CC (two each of old metal, presumably two are Sgt)
1xScout w/Heavy bolter
1Scout w/Sniper rifle
Elites
2xApothecary
2xAncient w/boltgun
1xDreadnought w/Assault cannon and CC w/storm bolter
2xDreadnought w/Multi-melta and CC w/storm bolter
1xDreadnought w/Twin lascannon and CC w/heavy flamer
1xVenerable Dreadnought w/Heavy plasma cannon and fist CC w/storm bolter (some options here as arms are not glued and I have other options unassembled)
4xTerminator Sgt w/Power sword and storm bolter
14xTerminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xTerminator w/Thunder hammer and storm shield
3xTerminator w/Cyclone missile launcher
1xTerminator w/Heavy flamer and power fist
Heavy Support
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and boltgun (use as Dev Sgt in this case since I have no other Vets)
1xDevastator w/Lascannon
1xDevastator w/Heavy bolter
1xDevastator w/Multi-melta
2xVindicator w/Pintle storm bolter
Ultramarines
Cheif Librarian Tigurius (old model)
Dark Angels
HQ
1xDV Librarian w/Force sword and bolt pistol
1xDV Master w/Boltgun and power sword
1xApothecary w/Chainsword (seems to be converted from Veteran, but has the backpack, head, and left arm of an Apothecary)
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and bolt pistol
1xVeteran w/Chainsword and storm shield
7xVeteran w/Boltgun
1xVeteran w/Plasma gun
1xDV Deathwing Terminator Sgt w/Storm bolter and power sword
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Chainfist and storm bolter
2xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Assault cannon and power fist
Captain (Cortez) w/Boltgun and power fist
Ancient (25th) w/Plasma pistol and power fist
Legion of the Damned
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword and boltgun
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword
1xLegionair w/Chainsword and bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Power fist and hand flamer
5xLegionair w/Boltgun
2xLegionair w/Combi-flamer
1xLegionair w/Flamer
2xLegionair w/Plasma gun
2xLegionair w/Melta gun
1xLegionair w/Heavy bolter
Primaris
All Primaris NoS for now while I work back into the hobby
I am also trying to get a Dark Imperium box as well, so feel free to include units from that if you want
Alright, first you should hammer down what kind of detachment you're going to be running.
Given what I see and what I'm guess you'll be able to field besides this. You should be able to run a nice sized Battalion & Supreme Command detachment. Though I don't know exactly what you'll be able to bring to bare. So having them battle-forged will be mostly up to correct unit choices and what exactly you want your chapter to be.
You can keep the inquisition, though they are pretty much a niche choice at this point. Which is why I would suggest keeping them for the supreme command detachment. However I'd suggest not using the legion of the damned in response to this. They've inhabited a strange void space in the game for some time now and to my knowledge, I haven't seen much use for them since 7th.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
SergentSilver wrote: Like my other two army lists I recently put here, I lack most of the knowledge I require to get started again. I haven't played since 5th edition and I have never played a loyalist marine force. Primaris are completely new to me as I have only just gotten back into the hobby due to Covid lockdowns. Please give me an idea of how to assemble what I have into a decent force for normal friendly games. Unfortunately my collection is really all over the place, so I have models from a number of different sub-factions with their own rules. On the upside, most of my models are either unpainted or painted differently from any established faction that I know about so they should be relatively available for any sub-faction as a successor or something similar. Not really sure how those new (to me) rules work.
Side note, this is what I believe my army to be after looking through the models, but may not be exactly accurate due to miscounts and lack of appropriate knowledge. I will start with generic SM, then chapter specific ones, and lastly Primaris since all I have are NoS. I also have some Inquisition models, but I'm not including them here because I don't know how common it is to include them in a non-Grey Knights SM force. They are included in my IG/Inquisition list if you want to see those.
Generic Marines
HQ
2xCaptain w/Power sword and storm bolter
2xCaptain in Terminator Armor w/Power sword and storm bolter
1xChaplain w/Bolt pistol
1xChaplain in Terminator Armor w/Storm bolter
2xTechmarine w/Tech axe and bolt pistol
8xMarines in need of repair but I have enough extra parts to equip them with boltguns at least
10xScout w/CC (two each of old metal, presumably two are Sgt)
1xScout w/Heavy bolter
1Scout w/Sniper rifle
Elites
2xApothecary
2xAncient w/boltgun
1xDreadnought w/Assault cannon and CC w/storm bolter
2xDreadnought w/Multi-melta and CC w/storm bolter
1xDreadnought w/Twin lascannon and CC w/heavy flamer
1xVenerable Dreadnought w/Heavy plasma cannon and fist CC w/storm bolter (some options here as arms are not glued and I have other options unassembled)
4xTerminator Sgt w/Power sword and storm bolter
14xTerminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xTerminator w/Thunder hammer and storm shield
3xTerminator w/Cyclone missile launcher
1xTerminator w/Heavy flamer and power fist
Heavy Support
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and boltgun (use as Dev Sgt in this case since I have no other Vets)
1xDevastator w/Lascannon
1xDevastator w/Heavy bolter
1xDevastator w/Multi-melta
2xVindicator w/Pintle storm bolter
Ultramarines
Cheif Librarian Tigurius (old model)
Dark Angels
HQ
1xDV Librarian w/Force sword and bolt pistol
1xDV Master w/Boltgun and power sword
1xApothecary w/Chainsword (seems to be converted from Veteran, but has the backpack, head, and left arm of an Apothecary)
1xVeteran Sgt w/Power fist and bolt pistol
1xVeteran w/Chainsword and storm shield
7xVeteran w/Boltgun
1xVeteran w/Plasma gun
1xDV Deathwing Terminator Sgt w/Storm bolter and power sword
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Chainfist and storm bolter
2xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Power fist and storm bolter
1xDV Deathwing Terminator w/Assault cannon and power fist
Captain (Cortez) w/Boltgun and power fist
Ancient (25th) w/Plasma pistol and power fist
Legion of the Damned
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword and boltgun
1xLegionair Sgt w/Chainsword
1xLegionair w/Chainsword and bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Bolt pistol
1xLegionair w/Power fist and hand flamer
5xLegionair w/Boltgun
2xLegionair w/Combi-flamer
1xLegionair w/Flamer
2xLegionair w/Plasma gun
2xLegionair w/Melta gun
1xLegionair w/Heavy bolter
Primaris
All Primaris NoS for now while I work back into the hobby
I am also trying to get a Dark Imperium box as well, so feel free to include units from that if you want
Alright, first you should hammer down what kind of detachment you're going to be running.
Given what I see and what I'm guess you'll be able to field besides this. You should be able to run a nice sized Battalion & Supreme Command detachment. Though I don't know exactly what you'll be able to bring to bare. So having them battle-forged will be mostly up to correct unit choices and what exactly you want your chapter to be.
You can keep the inquisition, though they are pretty much a niche choice at this point. Which is why I would suggest keeping them for the supreme command detachment. However I'd suggest not using the legion of the damned in response to this. They've inhabited a strange void space in the game for some time now and to my knowledge, I haven't seen much use for them since 7th.
Alright. Unfortunately, the key words Battalion, Supreme Command, and Battle-Forged don't mean a whole lot to me. I haven't held a core rule book since 5th Ed and back then I never got above 1000pt battles where I'd pool my CSM and IG together. I've also never played loyalist SM before. This is the extent of my SM models to the best of my knowledge, and I know I need a Fast Attack choice or two as well as some more Heavy Support. I think you mean I should include the Inquisition models when you say "keep", but I'm not sure about that. As for the LotD troops, I know they've been essentially killed off by GW, so those would probably be played as really cool looking normal troops. BattleScribe doesn't even have an option for a LotD with Heavy Bolter.
SergentSilver wrote: Alright. Unfortunately, the key words Battalion, Supreme Command, and Battle-Forged don't mean a whole lot to me. I haven't held a core rule book since 5th Ed and back then I never got above 1000pt battles where I'd pool my CSM and IG together. I've also never played loyalist SM before. This is the extent of my SM models to the best of my knowledge, and I know I need a Fast Attack choice or two as well as some more Heavy Support. I think you mean I should include the Inquisition models when you say "keep", but I'm not sure about that. As for the LotD troops, I know they've been essentially killed off by GW, so those would probably be played as really cool looking normal troops. BattleScribe doesn't even have an option for a LotD with Heavy Bolter.
Yeah, the Legion has been pretty low priority for many players. Even as early as 7th & 8th edition. Though you can run them as a very specific form of ally, if you know exactly what you're going up against ahead of time.
As for detachments:
Battalion Detachment-
Mandatory Units: 2 HQ, 3 Troops
◦Optional Units:+1 HQ, +3 Troops, +6 Elites, +3 Fast Attack, +3 Heavy Support, +2 Flyers, 1 Dedicated Transport per other choice taken
•Restrictions: All units must be from the same faction.
•CP Cost: 3 CP •Command Benefits: +3 CP if your Warlord is here.
Supreme Command Detachment-
Mandatory Units: 1 HQ or Lord of War
•Restrictions: This unit must have the Primarch, Daemon Primarch or Supreme Commander keywords. This model must also be your Warlord.
•CP Cost: N/A
•Command Benefits: Select one of the following:
◦+2 CP for any Patrol Detachments in your army.
◦+3 CP for any Battalion Detachments in your army.
◦+4 CP for any Brigade Detachments in your army.
Sadly, a lot of things have changed since 4th & 5th. Namely no more D strength weapons. So no more popping models with Vortex grenades.
But that also means that you most likely missed out on the Eldar's, wraith guard cannon line just creeping up the table.
I would suggest getting a few transports, or shoring up what your models are made to do. If you are going WYSIWYG that is.
Taking the meltas off the dreadnoughts and either adding the lascanon, or have them go boxing for the game. Though that is a saving grace for the Dreads. You can switch out their arms rather easily, so long as you don't glue them down. Maybe you can even find some extra front plates and a skull faceplate from a bitz store. Turn one of those bad boys into a Chaplain Dread.
Grey Knights just got a Terminator Chaplain added to their codex not too long ago, and that model works as a very nice force multiplier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 11:37:23
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
SergentSilver wrote: Alright. Unfortunately, the key words Battalion, Supreme Command, and Battle-Forged don't mean a whole lot to me. I haven't held a core rule book since 5th Ed and back then I never got above 1000pt battles where I'd pool my CSM and IG together. I've also never played loyalist SM before. This is the extent of my SM models to the best of my knowledge, and I know I need a Fast Attack choice or two as well as some more Heavy Support. I think you mean I should include the Inquisition models when you say "keep", but I'm not sure about that. As for the LotD troops, I know they've been essentially killed off by GW, so those would probably be played as really cool looking normal troops. BattleScribe doesn't even have an option for a LotD with Heavy Bolter.
Yeah, the Legion has been pretty low priority for many players. Even as early as 7th & 8th edition. Though you can run them as a very specific form of ally, if you know exactly what you're going up against ahead of time.
As for detachments: Battalion Detachment- Mandatory Units: 2 HQ, 3 Troops ◦Optional Units:+1 HQ, +3 Troops, +6 Elites, +3 Fast Attack, +3 Heavy Support, +2 Flyers, 1 Dedicated Transport per other choice taken
•Restrictions: All units must be from the same faction. •CP Cost: 3 CP •Command Benefits: +3 CP if your Warlord is here.
Supreme Command Detachment- Mandatory Units: 1 HQ or Lord of War •Restrictions: This unit must have the Primarch, Daemon Primarch or Supreme Commander keywords. This model must also be your Warlord. •CP Cost: N/A •Command Benefits: Select one of the following: ◦+2 CP for any Patrol Detachments in your army. ◦+3 CP for any Battalion Detachments in your army. ◦+4 CP for any Brigade Detachments in your army.
Sadly, a lot of things have changed since 4th & 5th. Namely no more D strength weapons. So no more popping models with Vortex grenades. But that also means that you most likely missed out on the Eldar's, wraith guard cannon line just creeping up the table.
I would suggest getting a few transports, or shoring up what your models are made to do. If you are going WYSIWYG that is. Taking the meltas off the dreadnoughts and either adding the lascanon, or have them go boxing for the game. Though that is a saving grace for the Dreads. You can switch out their arms rather easily, so long as you don't glue them down. Maybe you can even find some extra front plates and a skull faceplate from a bitz store. Turn one of those bad boys into a Chaplain Dread.
Grey Knights just got a Terminator Chaplain added to their codex not too long ago, and that model works as a very nice force multiplier.
That's good to know information. The Supreme Command Detachment is of particular interest. What units besides a Primarch would actually count for that in the Imperium? There's plenty of Lord of War models, but it sounds like it also needs the Supreme Commander keyword and I have no idea if any do. Side note to that, can Baneblades still take two pairs of side sponson, or just one now?
The two Dread with Multi-melta are actually from the Assault on Black Reach box, though I never built either of them, so I'm not sure if I can easily swap that out. Of course, if Multi-melta are considered useless even after the Melta update, I could probably just cut the barrels off and replace them with Lascannons leftover from IG Heavy Weapons teams. If Dreadnought Multi-melta get the same treatment as the Melta we're seeing now though, I think they might be surprisingly effective in CC with the new rules allowing vehicles to fire in melee. A friend and I each got the box as a gift and he played Orks while I played CSM, so we traded halves. I intended to try out SM with them and make them CSM if I didn't like it, but I never got around to building them. As for converting one to a Chaplain Dread, I might be able to pull something with all the extra parts I have since I also got many bits with the Ven Dread. If necessary, I could even take one of the oversized skulls hanging from a CSM chain accessory and slice off the face to glue onto the faceplate of a Dread. A bit low effort, but should be fine for non-competitive games. The Dread with Twin Lascannons is all glued up I believe. Got him in a trade recently and his arms didn't wiggle off, but I didn't put a lot of force into it for fear of breaking him. He's beautifully painted and nearly in my originally planned colors to boot! He's (Mechrite?) Red on Boltgun Metal, while my original plan for my SM was red on black to be easily able to use as CSM just in case, though my CSM are mainly blue with gold trim since I was leaning towards Tzeentch. As luck would have it, both Vindicators and the Multi-melta marine also came nicely painted in red on black as well.
I do have one Terminator Chaplain that is on my original list, but I also ordered a copy of the LE Terminator Chaplain from a few years back. Only problem is that I'm not 100% it's gonna be an actual GW model and not a recast. They were just using the official art and had 6 for sale, alongside multiple copies of other LE models that I plan to order as well. Hopefully it's just a smart person who bought 10 of each and is now selling them for mild profit. I should find out in a month or so.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 19:53:07
First thing, you’ll want the core rule book. You can probably get it for a reasonable price from someone that bought a pair of Indomitus boxes. Check your local buy and sell for 40k... try facebook.
The supreme detachment is 1 HQ *or* Supreme Commander. *if* that model is your warlord, you get *either* +2/3/4 CP if you have a Patrol/Battalion/Brigade. Essentially, you get one “primary” detachment for free. All other detachments are paid for as normal.
How many points are you looking to play at? Do you have a local normal?
As for organizing your force, I’d suggest picking up a list-builder app. BattleScribe is popular.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 23:22:48
greatbigtree wrote: First thing, you’ll want the core rule book. You can probably get it for a reasonable price from someone that bought a pair of Indomitus boxes. Check your local buy and sell for 40k... try facebook.
The supreme detachment is 1 HQ *or* Supreme Commander. *if* that model is your warlord, you get *either* +2/3/4 CP if you have a Patrol/Battalion/Brigade. Essentially, you get one “primary” detachment for free. All other detachments are paid for as normal.
How many points are you looking to play at? Do you have a local normal?
As for organizing your force, I’d suggest picking up a list-builder app. BattleScribe is popular.
I bought the Indomitus box myself, but I haven't opened it yet for a few reasons. I also recently discovered Battlescribe and have filled out full lists for all my armies to help me catalogue and organize my collection. I just don't know much about the new rules and setups since I haven't yet had time to read through the Core Rules nor had the time and money to acquire and read all the relevant codices. Since there are a number of sub-factions in SM, I am also looking for help on which to dive deeper into. As much as I would like to own and read every codex, buying each one is simply unrealistic for someone of my income. Also, since things have changed so much, I am seeking suggestions for usable forces comprised of the models I already own, with of course the exception of models from the DI box as I plan on getting that ASAP.
In terms of local points or a target point value, I have no information on that besides what I get from this site. Back in 5th Ed, a normal quick game was usually 500-1000pts among my friends. With the changes to the system, it's looking like a normal game is now 2000pts. I can say for certain that I don't plan to play competitively, so no need to list out every step to curb stomping opponents in tournaments. I will likely be going more for Narrative or Crusade style games with generally smaller forces to start if I can get a group together for it. Until then, I will probably just be playing mock battles against myself to get a feel for the new rules and how my various armies operate best. To be completely honest, the biggest game I've ever played was a 2-on-2 1000pts per player and I ran the full extent of my table ready models at the time, a combined force of CSM and IG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 03:50:20
Well... if you have the rules there’s no reason to not read them. We can’t explain the game better than reading the rules for yourself.
There will be a new Marine Codex in the immediate future. Once that drops, things will change in terms of what’s good. Do you currently have a sub-Faction that calls to you? For example, if I were to play SM I’d go the Salamander route because I like painting green, I like their fluff, and their rules seem fun. Even if they aren’t top tier, I’d paint them that way for sure, and try to run them that way.
greatbigtree wrote: Well... if you have the rules there’s no reason to not read them. We can’t explain the game better than reading the rules for yourself.
There will be a new Marine Codex in the immediate future. Once that drops, things will change in terms of what’s good. Do you currently have a sub-Faction that calls to you? For example, if I were to play SM I’d go the Salamander route because I like painting green, I like their fluff, and their rules seem fun. Even if they aren’t top tier, I’d paint them that way for sure, and try to run them that way.
That's fair. I don't know a whole lot about the SM chapters beyond the basics, but things I have recently heard have me liking the Crimson Fists lore-wise. Seems like decent guys who are making a comeback from a bad hand (no pun intended).
I'm not actually asking for the core rules to be explained to me here, I'm looking for help with force organization and strategy. For instance, the other day someone told me about the various SM buffs working together to allow them to take devastating action on the first turn and even "turn 0" as they put it. Now I'm not 100% sure I understood them correctly, but if it was correct then that's a lot of valuable information that I wouldn't necessarily pick up by reading the core book. With such things going above my understanding, I might carefully plan out a force based on only what I understood from just reading and get crushed because I didn't put certain things together properly. As I've said, I'm not looking to be super competitive, but that doesn't mean I enjoy blundering around trying to figure out why I'm losing because I missed a rule or a connection between two wasn't made clear. Could be that I just simply wouldn't have thought of something since my knowledge of tactics is so outdated. Again, just the other day someone suggested a certain setup and strategy I would never have come up with myself. Even if I don't use it, it's good to know about it so I have the option or the foresight to counter it being used against me.
Mostly though, this is just me asking about how to arrange my existing models into a viable force so I can start playing mock battles with myself to gain some personal experience and insight. Suggestions for how to expand my forces are also welcome, especially with suggestions on how to use said expansions.
So, the new space marine codex comes out in 2 weeks (and will doubtless be heavily revised by GW 2 weeks later, and 2 months later) and has apparently literally rewritten the book on space marines' rules and interactions with other space marines. It also will apparently contain all the subfactions (like my favorites, ravengaurd and ironhands, so named because I actually kind of undersatnd how to use them)... so don't sweat it. 2 weeks from now everyone in here will be pissing and moaning about how the SM faction is different than it was, and we will all be digesting a huge new ruleset.
Your gaurd is goign to stay the same for a while, and I don't know when the chaos stuff drops its new codex(es). But there are a million tiny details about SM in 2 weeks that nobody has yet leaked (the non-disclosure agreements are such that places like goonhammer have just begun to print articles analyzing the differences.) Given that d4chan is apparently the work of one person, its probable that it won't have this new information for a while.
Anyway. maybe look very briefly at "goonhammer review, codex space marines nineth edition".which is free, and online. (I am doing so myself, right now.) One army type that was a troop choice (with objective secured) before this change is scouts, who are now an elite choice. Anything I might have known about list building just went out the window, as I am used to seeing my competitive friends play a couple scouts for cheap troops choices, and early board control, and NOW that MAY OR MAY NOT (accidental but timely capslock) be a thing. Will they use up elites slots to put in someting that can stop a knight charging on turn 1 .. but not gain objective secured to contest an objective with enemy troops? Don't know. Will scouts cost the same number of points as elites? No idea. So if I say "make sure you have X number of artillery in case you need to kill lots of scouts so your scions can land" suddenly, is that advice good or bad? No idea. So I can only speculate if a gaurd army is any good -- or if its suddenly wasting 1/5 of its points to kill a unit nobody will bring, that prevents an action no longer prevented.
Argh! So, I think my own gaurd army is more or less neutral to a lot of these changes, but I would have ZERO clue how to put marines together now, without access to that entire book for both point costs and new rules and interactions.
Whew. Also dark angels. Are goign to be a thing.
But for example, flame weapons that were 8 inch range before no longer get 3 inch of a range buff from a specific space marine custom built chapter successor trait (so they are now penalized by not being 11 inches) which sounds terrible, till you notice they are all 12 inch range now anyway. So flamers are still in, of course, but every OTHER weapon gets 3 inches extra range and they just got 4, because they were made .. oh, maddening, like I asaid, short of reading this, no way to be sure what is going on. A scout unit with the sargent being shot by a flamer will make different saves now if its 11 inches away and a ravengaurd scout, because the saves now are keyed to ravengaurd troops being 18 inches away, not 12, and the flamer will have different effects if its in the hands of a salamander because they USED to reroll the number of hits, but now they don't, and its got a range of 12, but used to be 8, or 11, depending on subchapter successor design. Isn't that simple? That's why this book has managed to make itself so very necessary for playing space marines. Also, I don't know what that flamer will cost in the hands of a space marine captain's combiflame weapon, nor what those scouts cost, nor what the captain costs (but I do know he is now limited to 1 per detachment, max, which also changes something.)
My head would hurt if I were a marine player, I would put my models on the shelf till this book came out and say "damn if I know." For example, contempter dreadnaughts that used to be 10 wounds (and thus too large a unit to hide behind troops as a character) are now 9 wounds, and in ironhands, a special strategem can designate one dreadnaught a character, so the contempter dreadnaught's 1 wound loss means it can't be targeted if its the iron hands special character dreadnaught, unless by (very frustrated) snipers trying to kill it with antipersonnel weapons usually NOT designed to rip holes in a walking tank. Now imagine that dreadnaught is equipped with weapons that have changed their effect, and standing next to a tech marine whose effect on it is different than it was, and hiding from line of sight in a way it didn't used to. I can't even guess if this is a good or bad unit without that book!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 08:20:49
So, the new space marine codex comes out in 2 weeks (and will doubtless be heavily revised by GW 2 weeks later, and 2 months later) and has apparently literally rewritten the book on space marines' rules and interactions with other space marines. It also will apparently contain all the subfactions (like my favorites, ravengaurd and ironhands, so named because I actually kind of undersatnd how to use them)...
so don't sweat it. 2 weeks from now everyone in here will be pissing and moaning about how the SM faction is different than it was, and we will all be digesting a huge new ruleset.
Your gaurd is goign to stay the same for a while, and I don't know when the chaos stuff drops its new codex(es). But there are a million tiny details about SM in 2 weeks that nobody has yet leaked (the non-disclosure agreements are such that places like goonhammer have just begun to print articles analyzing the differences.)
Given that d4chan is apparently the work of one person, its probable that it won't have this new information for a while.
Anyway. maybe look very briefly at "goonhammer review, codex space marines nineth edition".which is free, and online. (I am doing so myself, right now.) One army type that was a troop choice (with objective secured) before this change is scouts, who are now an elite choice. Anything I might have known about list building just went out the window, as I am used to seeing my competitive friends play a couple scouts for cheap troops choices, and early board control, and NOW that MAY OR MAY NOT (accidental but timely capslock) be a thing.
Will they use up elites slots to put in someting that can stop a knight charging on turn 1 .. but not gain objective secured to contest an objective with enemy troops? Don't know. Will scouts cost the same number of points as elites? No idea. So if I say "make sure you have X number of artillery in case you need to kill lots of scouts so your scions can land" suddenly, is that advice good or bad? No idea. So I can only speculate if a gaurd army is any good -- or if its suddenly wasting 1/5 of its points to kill a unit nobody will bring, that prevents an action no longer prevented.
Argh! So, I think my own gaurd army is more or less neutral to a lot of these changes, but I would have ZERO clue how to put marines together now, without access to that entire book for both point costs and new rules and interactions.
Whew. Also dark angels. Are goign to be a thing.
But for example, flame weapons that were 8 inch range before no longer get 3 inch of a range buff from a specific space marine custom built chapter successor trait (so they are now penalized by not being 11 inches) which sounds terrible, till you notice they are all 12 inch range now anyway. So flamers are still in, of course, but every OTHER weapon gets 3 inches extra range and they just got 4, because they were made .. oh, maddening, like I asaid, short of reading this, no way to be sure what is going on. A scout unit with the sargent being shot by a flamer will make different saves now if its 11 inches away and a ravengaurd scout, because the saves now are keyed to ravengaurd troops being 18 inches away, not 12, and the flamer will have different effects if its in the hands of a salamander because they USED to reroll the number of hits, but now they don't, and its got a range of 12, but used to be 8, or 11, depending on subchapter successor design. Isn't that simple? That's why this book has managed to make itself so very necessary for playing space marines. Also, I don't know what that flamer will cost in the hands of a space marine captain's combiflame weapon, nor what those scouts cost, nor what the captain costs (but I do know he is now limited to 1 per detachment, max, which also changes something.)
My head would hurt if I were a marine player, I would put my models on the shelf till this book came out and say "damn if I know." For example, contempter dreadnaughts that used to be 10 wounds (and thus too large a unit to hide behind troops as a character) are now 9 wounds, and in ironhands, a special strategem can designate one dreadnaught a character, so the contempter dreadnaught's 1 wound loss means it can't be targeted if its the iron hands special character dreadnaught, unless by (very frustrated) snipers trying to kill it with antipersonnel weapons usually NOT designed to rip holes in a walking tank.
Now imagine that dreadnaught is equipped with weapons that have changed their effect, and standing next to a tech marine whose effect on it is different than it was, and hiding from line of sight in a way it didn't used to. I can't even guess if this is a good or bad unit without that book!
Yeah, a Dreadnought with character status and 9 wounds... Really makes me wish my Vindicars were still as powerful against armor as they used to be...
Actually, wouldn't the change in the Dreadnoughts status.. make it eligible for the Vidicar's Head Shot rule?
Great... now I'm confused all over again.
Although, I have no right to complain about Cheese. I still run Draigo with five Paladins, one Ancient and an Apothecary. In one nice little teleporting death ball. Hell, I don't even bring the heavy weapons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 09:51:17
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
So, the new space marine codex comes out in 2 weeks (and will doubtless be heavily revised by GW 2 weeks later, and 2 months later) and has apparently literally rewritten the book on space marines' rules and interactions with other space marines. It also will apparently contain all the subfactions (like my favorites, ravengaurd and ironhands, so named because I actually kind of undersatnd how to use them)...
so don't sweat it. 2 weeks from now everyone in here will be pissing and moaning about how the SM faction is different than it was, and we will all be digesting a huge new ruleset.
Your gaurd is goign to stay the same for a while, and I don't know when the chaos stuff drops its new codex(es). But there are a million tiny details about SM in 2 weeks that nobody has yet leaked (the non-disclosure agreements are such that places like goonhammer have just begun to print articles analyzing the differences.)
Given that d4chan is apparently the work of one person, its probable that it won't have this new information for a while.
Anyway. maybe look very briefly at "goonhammer review, codex space marines nineth edition".which is free, and online. (I am doing so myself, right now.) One army type that was a troop choice (with objective secured) before this change is scouts, who are now an elite choice. Anything I might have known about list building just went out the window, as I am used to seeing my competitive friends play a couple scouts for cheap troops choices, and early board control, and NOW that MAY OR MAY NOT (accidental but timely capslock) be a thing.
Will they use up elites slots to put in someting that can stop a knight charging on turn 1 .. but not gain objective secured to contest an objective with enemy troops? Don't know. Will scouts cost the same number of points as elites? No idea. So if I say "make sure you have X number of artillery in case you need to kill lots of scouts so your scions can land" suddenly, is that advice good or bad? No idea. So I can only speculate if a gaurd army is any good -- or if its suddenly wasting 1/5 of its points to kill a unit nobody will bring, that prevents an action no longer prevented.
Argh! So, I think my own gaurd army is more or less neutral to a lot of these changes, but I would have ZERO clue how to put marines together now, without access to that entire book for both point costs and new rules and interactions.
Whew. Also dark angels. Are goign to be a thing.
But for example, flame weapons that were 8 inch range before no longer get 3 inch of a range buff from a specific space marine custom built chapter successor trait (so they are now penalized by not being 11 inches) which sounds terrible, till you notice they are all 12 inch range now anyway. So flamers are still in, of course, but every OTHER weapon gets 3 inches extra range and they just got 4, because they were made .. oh, maddening, like I asaid, short of reading this, no way to be sure what is going on. A scout unit with the sargent being shot by a flamer will make different saves now if its 11 inches away and a ravengaurd scout, because the saves now are keyed to ravengaurd troops being 18 inches away, not 12, and the flamer will have different effects if its in the hands of a salamander because they USED to reroll the number of hits, but now they don't, and its got a range of 12, but used to be 8, or 11, depending on subchapter successor design. Isn't that simple? That's why this book has managed to make itself so very necessary for playing space marines. Also, I don't know what that flamer will cost in the hands of a space marine captain's combiflame weapon, nor what those scouts cost, nor what the captain costs (but I do know he is now limited to 1 per detachment, max, which also changes something.)
My head would hurt if I were a marine player, I would put my models on the shelf till this book came out and say "damn if I know." For example, contempter dreadnaughts that used to be 10 wounds (and thus too large a unit to hide behind troops as a character) are now 9 wounds, and in ironhands, a special strategem can designate one dreadnaught a character, so the contempter dreadnaught's 1 wound loss means it can't be targeted if its the iron hands special character dreadnaught, unless by (very frustrated) snipers trying to kill it with antipersonnel weapons usually NOT designed to rip holes in a walking tank.
Now imagine that dreadnaught is equipped with weapons that have changed their effect, and standing next to a tech marine whose effect on it is different than it was, and hiding from line of sight in a way it didn't used to. I can't even guess if this is a good or bad unit without that book!
Yeah, a Dreadnought with character status and 9 wounds... Really makes me wish my Vindicars were still as powerful against armor as they used to be...
Actually, wouldn't the change in the Dreadnoughts status.. make it eligible for the Vidicar's Head Shot rule?
Great... now I'm confused all over again.
Although, I have no right to complain about Cheese. I still run Draigo with five Paladins, one Ancient and an Apothecary. In one nice little teleporting death ball. Hell, I don't even bring the heavy weapons.
Lol I'm sorry, but having recently rediscovered and caught up on If the Emperor had a TTS Device, all I can picture is Draigo doing crazy gak in the warp once you mentioned him. "THAT IS A GOOD LOOKING BEARD YOU HAVE THERE SIR. I too have a beard." xD
That aside, those are interesting new things I've never heard of. Having recently gotten a Vindicare myself, I will be interested in looking into this Head Shot rule and how it plays out now.
Edit: I do not know why the quote function is not working properly. I have tried the only ways I know to fix it I could think of, but none worked.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/06 03:39:45
Lol I'm sorry, but having recently rediscovered and caught up on If the Emperor had a TTS Device, all I can picture is Draigo doing crazy gak in the warp once you mentioned him. "THAT IS A GOOD LOOKING BEARD YOU HAVE THERE SIR. I too have a beard." xD
That aside, those are interesting new things I've never heard of. Having recently gotten a Vindicare myself, I will be interested in looking into this Head Shot rule and how it plays out now.
Edit: I do not know why the quote function is not working properly. I have tried the only ways I know to fix it I could think of, but none worked.
Yeah, after a while you may just want to "snip" off all of the Quotes. Because the page becomes extremely clustered with text and you can easily miss any sidebars, or notations for keeping the format stable.
On the note for the Vindicare's Headshot rule.
It states that if the Vindicare wounds a model, but does not kill it. Then you roll a d6 and on a 3+ you add another mortal wound on top of it. And if that wound does not kill the model, you roll the d6 again, only this time the required roll is a 4+ and the rule escalates like that from there.
Math wise, the Vindicare can basically strip off most elite models and anything with a heavy weapon. Though anything with more than 4Ws would still be a stretch.
Also, the stratagems for the Vindicare: Double Kill. Allows him to fire twice and Turbo-Penetrator Round allows him to put a decent hole into most Monsters and Vehicles.
Do you have all of the assassins, or just him?
Because it's a nice investment to get the whole group.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/06 04:48:05
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Lol I'm sorry, but having recently rediscovered and caught up on If the Emperor had a TTS Device, all I can picture is Draigo doing crazy gak in the warp once you mentioned him. "THAT IS A GOOD LOOKING BEARD YOU HAVE THERE SIR. I too have a beard." xD
That aside, those are interesting new things I've never heard of. Having recently gotten a Vindicare myself, I will be interested in looking into this Head Shot rule and how it plays out now.
Edit: I do not know why the quote function is not working properly. I have tried the only ways I know to fix it I could think of, but none worked.
Yeah, after a while you may just want to "snip" off all of the Quotes. Because the page becomes extremely clustered with text and you can easily miss any sidebars, or notations for keeping the format stable.
On the note for the Vindicare's Headshot rule.
It states that if the Vindicare wounds a model, but does not kill it. Then you roll a d6 and on a 3+ you add another mortal wound on top of it. And if that wound does not kill the model, you roll the d6 again, only this time the required roll is a 4+ and the rule escalates like that from there.
Math wise, the Vindicare can basically strip off most elite models and anything with a heavy weapon. Though anything with more than 4Ws would still be a stretch.
Also, the stratagems for the Vindicare: Double Kill. Allows him to fire twice and Turbo-Penetrator Round allows him to put a decent hole into most Monsters and Vehicles.
Do you have all of the assassins, or just him?
Because it's a nice investment to get the whole group.
Unfortunately, just him I believe. I have tried getting all the old models, but each time I get sniped as it were. There was even an old Assassin with Power Sword I was drooling over for months, but since the seller was in Australia the shipping cost nearly doubled the price and shot it way over what I would be willing to spend on a single model. I'd been saving up to by a few of their lots so the combined shipping would be less of a joy kill, but someone grabbed them all at once before I could. Probably had the same idea as me.
I will keep looking, but I doubt I'll buy the new ones. I honestly dislike half of them. The Culexus is the closest to normal and the Vindicare is kinda cool hiding behind a broken pillar, but Eversor looks unstable and easily broken and the Callidus looks ridiculous imo. I don't even want to think about how many times I'd have to fix her ankle and hair because a stiff breeze knocked her over. They look like someone took a great custom display piece that was never intended for the table and used it anyway. I'm not entirely sure how the cover and LoS works in 9th, but even if it doesn't have any effect on gameplay I do not want my ASSASSINS sticking out on the table like Rainbow Marines in a SM Chapter lineup. That's what Primarchs, Daemon Princes, Lords of War, and Super Heavies are for.
I can just imagine the Callidus on the table. "Alright, my super sneaky shape-shifter assassin is going to sneak around your Boyz using this full cover wall here. Just ignore the fact that her entire body is sticking out and her hair is scraping the bottom of your Fighta-Bomba, she's definitely behind cover and un-targetable by all your infantry on the other side."
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I've got some good news! While going through my bitz for a potential trade, I discovered the parts for at least four Dreadnought arms that should fit the old push-fit Multi-melta & CC w/Storm bolter Dreads. Unfortunately, one actually appears to be the exact same push-fit left CC arm w/Storm bolter. The rest however should prove far more useful. They are a right arm Twin Lascannon, a left arm Missile Pod, and a right arm with a gun I don't recognize. To describe it, if a Heavy Bolter was a 50.cal HMG, this thing would be a belt-fed 40mm Grenade Launcher. Looks pretty cool, but since I've been directed towards Flamers over Grenade Launchers in my IG, I'm not sure if it's actually better than a Multi-melta now that they're Heavy 2 and since Dreads are Vehicles they don't suffer any penalties associated with Heavy Weapons and can fire while in melee. Not one 100% on this, but with the recent rules updates as I'm hearing them it might actually be a good idea to keep one Dread with Multi-melta and swap out the left arm for a CC w/Flamer so he can be a fully CQC oriented model. On the other hand, swapping both arms out for Twin Lascannon and a Missile Pod might make for great ranged support. The Dread that's glued into a Twin Lascannon and CC w/Flamer is something to keep in mind of course. He's sorta an all-rounder both decent at range and in melee, especially with the extended Flamer length and ability to shoot in melee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 04:44:34
SergentSilver wrote: Unfortunately, just him I believe. I have tried getting all the old models, but each time I get sniped as it were. There was even an old Assassin with Power Sword I was drooling over for months, but since the seller was in Australia the shipping cost nearly doubled the price and shot it way over what I would be willing to spend on a single model. I'd been saving up to by a few of their lots so the combined shipping would be less of a joy kill, but someone grabbed them all at once before I could. Probably had the same idea as me.
I will keep looking, but I doubt I'll buy the new ones. I honestly dislike half of them. The Culexus is the closest to normal and the Vindicare is kinda cool hiding behind a broken pillar, but Eversor looks unstable and easily broken and the Callidus looks ridiculous imo. I don't even want to think about how many times I'd have to fix her ankle and hair because a stiff breeze knocked her over. They look like someone took a great custom display piece that was never intended for the table and used it anyway. I'm not entirely sure how the cover and LoS works in 9th, but even if it doesn't have any effect on gameplay I do not want my ASSASSINS sticking out on the table like Rainbow Marines in a SM Chapter lineup. That's what Primarchs, Daemon Princes, Lords of War, and Super Heavies are for.
I can just imagine the Callidus on the table. "Alright, my super sneaky shape-shifter assassin is going to sneak around your Boyz using this full cover wall here. Just ignore the fact that her entire body is sticking out and her hair is scraping the bottom of your Fighta-Bomba, she's definitely behind cover and un-targetable by all your infantry on the other side."
Save up and order one of the Execution Force boxes. Comes with a few extra models that you can sell to offset the price and you get the whole lineup.
Then you can take the Eversor and the Callidus, and snip their bases for something that's more to your liking. Though the Eversor's base is something that's very stable and his mount for that base, is actually a peg on the bottom of his foot. So there's far more area for his foot to be glued to the structure.
The Callidus on the other hand, you can just cut the pillar in half and she's back down to being on a low profile. Even add a different piece for hair, or green stuff her bald. It all works really.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 04:53:38
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Save up and order one of the Execution Force boxes. Comes with a few extra models that you can sell to offset the price and you get the whole lineup.
Then you can take the Eversor and the Callidus, and snip their bases for something that's more to your liking. Though the Eversor's base is something that's very stable and his mount for that base, is actually a peg on the bottom of his foot. So there's far more area for his foot to be glued to the structure.
The Callidus on the other hand, you can just cut the pillar in half and she's back down to being on a low profile. Even add a different piece for hair, or green stuff her bald. It all works really.
Execution Force? I couldn't find it on GWs webstore. Is that a new kit that hasn't been released?
Ancestral Hamster wrote: It was one of their board games with minis. Came with one character each from the four main Assassin temples. You'll need to look on eBay or similar.
SergentSilver wrote: Execution Force? I couldn't find it on GWs webstore. Is that a new kit that hasn't been released?
Oof. Not sure it's worth it over just asking my local store to get the assassin pack then. Probably a hefty premium on the OOP pack in the after market.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm actually I could see myself getting the Callidus, freeing her foot from the pillar or not attaching it in the first place, making the scenic base into more of an outcropping, positioning her to look like she's jumping forward off the rock or whatever, cutting her braid off, then repositioning it flowing back to keep the added movement it brings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/07 06:02:48
Ancestral Hamster wrote: It was one of their board games with minis. Came with one character each from the four main Assassin temples. You'll need to look on eBay or similar.
SergentSilver wrote: Execution Force? I couldn't find it on GWs webstore. Is that a new kit that hasn't been released?
Oof. Not sure it's worth it over just asking my local store to get the assassin pack then. Probably a hefty premium on the OOP pack in the after market.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm actually I could see myself getting the Callidus, freeing her foot from the pillar or not attaching it in the first place, making the scenic base into more of an outcropping, positioning her to look like she's jumping forward off the rock or whatever, cutting her braid off, then repositioning it flowing back to keep the added movement it brings.
It comes with 4 assassins, 15 chaos cultist, 3 CSM, 1 familiar & 1 chaos sorcerer lord in terminator armor.
I got mine on release for around 90$ which was including tax. A nice steal for what you're paying for.
Amazon is a good place to start, because I know that most of the people on ebay are trying to scalp you most of the time. Unless they are a highly trusted seller.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Ancestral Hamster wrote: It was one of their board games with minis. Came with one character each from the four main Assassin temples. You'll need to look on eBay or similar.
SergentSilver wrote: Execution Force? I couldn't find it on GWs webstore. Is that a new kit that hasn't been released?
Oof. Not sure it's worth it over just asking my local store to get the assassin pack then. Probably a hefty premium on the OOP pack in the after market.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm actually I could see myself getting the Callidus, freeing her foot from the pillar or not attaching it in the first place, making the scenic base into more of an outcropping, positioning her to look like she's jumping forward off the rock or whatever, cutting her braid off, then repositioning it flowing back to keep the added movement it brings.
It comes with 4 assassins, 15 chaos cultist, 3 CSM, 1 familiar & 1 chaos sorcerer lord in terminator armor.
I got mine on release for around 90$ which was including tax. A nice steal for what you're paying for.
Amazon is a good place to start, because I know that most of the people on ebay are trying to scalp you most of the time. Unless they are a highly trusted seller.
Well if I see it for $90 or less including shipping, I'll try and get it. That is a good deal considering the four assassins are bundled for $128 and the term lord is another $30 on top. I could use a sorcerer lord anyway. Even better if it's the full kit so I have extra pieces. Not sure why they count the familiar as a separate model though considering it's normally a part of the terminator/sorcerer lord kit, it's just not given it's own base in the normal kit. The 15 cultist would be another $30 and the 3 CSM are probably a $10 push-fit pack, though those haven't actually been sold for years that I know of. Maybe they broke out the old molds for one last round?
Well if I see it for $90 or less including shipping, I'll try and get it. That is a good deal considering the four assassins are bundled for $128 and the term lord is another $30 on top. I could use a sorcerer lord anyway. Even better if it's the full kit so I have extra pieces. Not sure why they count the familiar as a separate model though considering it's normally a part of the terminator/sorcerer lord kit, it's just not given it's own base in the normal kit. The 15 cultist would be another $30 and the 3 CSM are probably a $10 push-fit pack, though those haven't actually been sold for years that I know of. Maybe they broke out the old molds for one last round?
Good to know and yes, they are a simple push kit. Complete with he vertical horns on their helmets, connected at the top by a skull.
Have you given any thoughts to what chapter you'd like to run for your army?
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Unfortunately, the only one I could find on Amazon was some hack trying to sell it for $268. Ebay was pretty useless too. There's only two under $180. The first one seems to be the game minus good models and some game cards but plus empty and mostly empty partial sprues from unknown boxes and random build instructions. The other is very cheap because it's missing all the models and is local pickup only.
Good to know and yes, they are a simple push kit. Complete with he vertical horns on their helmets, connected at the top by a skull.
Have you given any thoughts to what chapter you'd like to run for your army?
Wow, those guys really are old. Would have been removed along with the previous sculpt at least. Part of my intent for this thread is getting ideas of what chapter is right for me. For lore reasons, I'm leaning toward Crimson Fists or Salamanders, but most of what I've heard says Ravenguard and White Scars are super OP right now. Ultramarines are of course "ultra" as usual. Because I like variety I probably won't run any official chapter paint wise, but that really just means I can use any chapter's rules. Part of that is also that I pick up models here and there and will keep any paintjob that I like because it saves me a lot of work. I don't particularly care about having an entire army all painted the same scheme. Doing something like that usually causes my creativity and enthusiasm to burn out anyway. I don't seem to be alone in that either. A lot of army lots I've seen over the years are mostly really well painted, but the person burned out after doing so many at once and didn't want to finish.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/08 06:07:12
If I were you, first things first, I'd pick a chapter -
Ultras
DA BA SW
That will somewhat influence the flavor of your army
i.e. more fight with BA or SW- More shoot and fight RW/DW with DA, More Infantry, potentially Guilliman shenanigans with Ultras
For troops you could run a Tac Squad, Intercessors, and an Assault Intercessor squad.
The BGV are pretty good. Stick them the Cap, and LT and someone in a Shield Dome impulsor to get them where they need to go, or even better some sort of deepstrike/outflank shenanigans if your chosen Chapter can finagle it.
Bolter Interceptors are pretty good, especially with the recent changes to Aggressors and will come out of the Fast Attack slot where you likely won't find much else you like - Edit to remove brain freeze on VV/SG - I started to say one thing, changed to another, and forgot to delete these folks from the slot.
As you're looking for help picking a chapter, what do you want to do with your army? Jump Around and punch people? Drive Around and chop people? Teleport in shoot then punch them? Have a buncha dudes on foot running and gunning? A ton of Dreads? Air Drop Bjorn the Fell Handed from a Stormraven while yelling "Even in Death I still parachuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/08 16:08:32
Breton wrote: If I were you, first things first, I'd pick a chapter - Ultras DA BA SW
That will somewhat influence the flavor of your army
i.e. more fight with BA or SW- More shoot and fight RW/DW with DA, More Infantry, potentially Guilliman shenanigans with Ultras
For troops you could run a Tac Squad, Intercessors, and an Assault Intercessor squad.
The BGV are pretty good. Stick them the Cap, and LT and someone in a Shield Dome impulsor to get them where they need to go, or even better some sort of deepstrike/outflank shenanigans if your chosen Chapter can finagle it.
Bolter Interceptors are pretty good, especially with the recent changes to Aggressors and will come out of the Fast Attack slot where you likely won't find much else you like - Edit to remove brain freeze on VV/SG - I started to say one thing, changed to another, and forgot to delete these folks from the slot.
As you're looking for help picking a chapter, what do you want to do with your army? Jump Around and punch people? Drive Around and chop people? Teleport in shoot then punch them? Have a buncha dudes on foot running and gunning? A ton of Dreads? Air Drop Bjorn the Fell Handed from a Stormraven while yelling "Even in Death I still parachuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute!
That's a lot of good information that I'll try to keep in mind. Since I don't have any strongly favored style of play yet, I'd say what ever works best with my currently owned models. I don't mind proxying for equivalent units of other factions either, such as running the DA as normal counterparts of a different faction. I enjoy variety of appearance, so it's more of a boon to me anyway if I have a few different chapters models mixed in. I really like different aesthetic choices of different factions, such as the DA Veterans robes and the sculpted body style armor of BA Sanguinary Guard. I would love to see both in my collection, even if I only ever played the Sanguinary Guard as normal Sternguard. I'm a bit all over the place in visual taste. As a collector, I will likely end up with cool character models from each chapter. As a painter, I will probably have a couple units painted in their colors for the change of pace. What that means for me is that I will likely eventually try out each faction to see what I like best, but that's talk of the future.
Future models aside, what would be the best fit for what I currently own? I'll try to get LE models and box sets relevant to my interests, but unless it's an incredible deal I have no intention to buy general production models brand new right now. I honestly have enough to work on that I could be busy well into next year even if I didn't have to spend time on classes, chores, and finding a decent job. Or have any plans to make some basic scenery either. I still have to get proper paints again too, as all my old ones have dried up. I did get the Starter Paint setback at the beginning of the lockdown, so I can at least start base colors for most things. I think I might try painting some basic models as Crimson Fists since the scheme is both simple and surprisingly fun to look at - unlike some other chapters (staring at you old Minotaurs >.> ) - but my intended color scheme is currently black with red sections (actually pretty close to BADC now that I think about it) to sort of fit with my IG being black, purple, and grey. I believe that would make my army technically a successor, but I don't know if that means anything in gameplay or if it's just an excuse to use the same characters and rules in different colors.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/10 02:40:59
Black and red would also be a reasonable successor for ravengaurd or iron hands (if you wanted to emphasize deployment / early game movement and deepstrike stuff (RG) or if you wanted to emphasize vehicles (which many folk can sell surpisingly cheap, as most people end up with a marine army sooner or later and may rarely if ever play with it.)
You will probably have to buy the marine codex and read it. I bet that helps you firm up your "I want THOSE" a lot.
Dukeofstuff wrote: Black and red would also be a reasonable successor for ravengaurd or iron hands (if you wanted to emphasize deployment / early game movement and deepstrike stuff (RG) or if you wanted to emphasize vehicles (which many folk can sell surpisingly cheap, as most people end up with a marine army sooner or later and may rarely if ever play with it.)
You will probably have to buy the marine codex and read it. I bet that helps you firm up your "I want THOSE" a lot.
Yeah, I will be trying to get my hands on the new codex soon. It will help not only with this army, but likely in getting an idea of new rules and such. One can only learn so much from just reading the BRB, yeah? Might try and see if they'll do a package deal for the new Necron and SM codices, though I kinda doubt they will since they haven't yet. I'm not sure if it's a boon to have gotten back in in the months preceding the release of 9th Ed, but I'm certainly glad I didn't shell out for new codices back in March/May. Honestly, I'm already seeing people selling all the 8th books half price or lower. I've even seen PA:SotB for sale. Pretty sad that a book that expensive is outdated within 6-7 months. Can't even imagine what that must feel like for SW fans. To pay $60 to finally get some cool new powers like everyone else, only to have them taken away just months later. At least, that's what I've heard. I haven't actually seen the new rules supplements and such.
Future models aside, what would be the best fit for what I currently own? I'll try to get LE models and box sets relevant to my interests, but unless it's an incredible deal I have no intention to buy general production models brand new right now.
For the most part, any chapter can fit any generic (i.e. not Chapter Specific) model. Unless you're skewing heavily, only about half the army will get a benefit from a big buff, or your whole army will get a benefit from a small and it should balance out. For example Wolves get a big buff to close combat, but pretty much nothing to shooting. My Ultras get a minor to moderate buff to everyone. DA get a huge buff to Inner Circle - basically Deathwing and SOME characters - and an even smaller buff for everyone else, plus a drawback.
Look into the Contrast Paints. I prime and basecoat with an airbrush, then re-basecoat any details finally then pick out details in contrast paints. But a lot of that is because the UM Contrast Blue sucks. It's way way too dark. The Templar Black, and Blood Angel red contrasts are amazing. Skeleton Horde is also a good contrast paint. They're designed to basically be a one step paint for the bare minimum. You prime White, Bone, or Grey (depending on your finished color), paint almost like a wash, it settles, pools, and naturally provides shade and highlight when it dries. In theory. As I mentioned some are better than others. I use the UM contrast blue on Libbies and it's pretty close to that Crimson Fist blue.
Future models aside, what would be the best fit for what I currently own? I'll try to get LE models and box sets relevant to my interests, but unless it's an incredible deal I have no intention to buy general production models brand new right now.
For the most part, any chapter can fit any generic (i.e. not Chapter Specific) model. Unless you're skewing heavily, only about half the army will get a benefit from a big buff, or your whole army will get a benefit from a small and it should balance out. For example Wolves get a big buff to close combat, but pretty much nothing to shooting. My Ultras get a minor to moderate buff to everyone. DA get a huge buff to Inner Circle - basically Deathwing and SOME characters - and an even smaller buff for everyone else, plus a drawback.
Look into the Contrast Paints. I prime and basecoat with an airbrush, then re-basecoat any details finally then pick out details in contrast paints. But a lot of that is because the UM Contrast Blue sucks. It's way way too dark. The Templar Black, and Blood Angel red contrasts are amazing. Skeleton Horde is also a good contrast paint. They're designed to basically be a one step paint for the bare minimum. You prime White, Bone, or Grey (depending on your finished color), paint almost like a wash, it settles, pools, and naturally provides shade and highlight when it dries. In theory. As I mentioned some are better than others. I use the UM contrast blue on Libbies and it's pretty close to that Crimson Fist blue.
Nice! Thanks for the painting advice. Though I've yet to try any myself, I've heard similar mixed results with contrast paints.
So I just had a thought and I'm not sure if it works or not. If you use or create a successor chapter, can you use characters from the parent chapter? For example, say you play Crimson Fists normally, but you also want to use Tor Garadon. Could you run him with the Crimson Fists as say a liaison or extra support from the parent chapter? I'm not entirely sure how it all works yet, but to my knowledge most successor chapters use the same special rules from the parent chapter as if you were playing them anyway. That means it should - in theory - be fine, yes?
SergentSilver wrote: So I just had a thought and I'm not sure if it works or not. If you use or create a successor chapter, can you use characters from the parent chapter? For example, say you play Crimson Fists normally, but you also want to use Tor Garadon. Could you run him with the Crimson Fists as say a liaison or extra support from the parent chapter? I'm not entirely sure how it all works yet, but to my knowledge most successor chapters use the same special rules from the parent chapter as if you were playing them anyway. That means it should - in theory - be fine, yes?
It's as simple as declaring what you're using to your opponent. Barring that you aren't using any war gear, relics, or anything otherwise restricted for use from the chosen chapters rules. It should all be game legal and even tournament legal.
The only issue where this might turn up is in legends and even then, it's mostly an obscure rarity.
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
Deathwatch 
AdMech 
Necron
