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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got a friend who plays the same army?

Split the cost. One keeps the physical copy, the other the digital copy.

Job’s a good’un.

The digital copy is just the data sheets in the app, wouldn’t be fair really on a 50/50 cost split

Ahhh, I see.

In which case ignore me!

 jeff white wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How much pages do the new codices have compared with the old ones?
The Necron codex is 46€, the old was 32€; the SM codex is also 46€, while the old was 50€.

I am seeing 37,50...
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Codex-Necrons-EN-2020

Right, I see 37,50 for the english versions and 32,50 for the italian ones. I can't understand why the translated version, which required extra work, should be cheaper though.

considering the quality of translations.... yeah no

Maybe the supplements are ment to be for lore ? The PA had new stuff in it, while the codex for GK felt like a copy past comparing to a prior codex I saw a year or so ago, with actualy less lore and stories about GK and their gear.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Wait, you have to have the app to view your digital codex which you pay for when you buy the physical one, and there's a fee to do that?

GW needs to be hit with an unfair business practice charge on this, you pay form soenmthing you may not want ot use, then to use it have to pay more?

There's got t be something illegal in that.

Uuuh no...You need the app and you can subscribe if you want but if you don't you can still access the codexes you have bought yourself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How much pages do the new codices have compared with the old ones?
The Necron codex is 46€, the old was 32€; the SM codex is also 46€, while the old was 50€.

I am seeing 37,50...
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Codex-Necrons-EN-2020

Right, I see 37,50 for the english versions and 32,50 for the italian ones. I can't understand why the translated version, which required extra work, should be cheaper though.

You get discount for all the errors and mistakes in translations

(seriously that is weird. Best guess: Somebody forgot to update price of translated version from old one)

But at the same time it is funny stuff. To this day people are making fun of gigant with a huge club, which got translated in to polish as gigant with a huge dick, because someone tried to find a fancy name for club.

Or how necron lych phylacteries were also translated as special kind of drapes for curtins, only the same word is more often used for a vulgar description of something else .

Or maybe it is just me that finds it funny. For rules, never use a translated book though. horrible idea.

Karol wrote:
But at the same time it is funny stuff. To this day people are making fun of gigant with a huge club, which got translated in to polish as gigant with a huge dick, because someone tried to find a fancy name for club.

Or how necron lych phylacteries were also translated as special kind of drapes for curtins, only the same word is more often used for a vulgar description of something else .

Or maybe it is just me that finds it funny. For rules, never use a translated book though. horrible idea.

No, it's not just you that finds that funny!

Karol wrote:

Or maybe it is just me that finds it funny. For rules, never use a translated book though. horrible idea.

I have considered getting japanese one just for lulz(too bad GW doesn't ship them to finland). The assembly instruction ones are already funny reading.

It's old news, but the prices, and frequency, stopped being acceptable around 7th/8th. I got the indices (indexes?) and drew my line there.

During a global pandemic and economic downturn the only acceptable price hike is zero.

In fact GW had a chance to be real knights here and reduce prices for a while to encourage people to buy minis, stay home, assemble and paint them.

But no. GW just can't do that. It's against their corporate programming. Their corporate DNA won't let them.

All they can do in any situation is raise prices.

Economy's going good? Well then people can afford to pay more so raise prices!

Economy's going down in flames? Oh, we're not selling as many minis now so to keep profits up raise prices!

It's sunny out? Raise prices!

It's raining out? Raise prices!

I like playing 40k, I like a lot of the players (Not GW fhanbois) and I like a lot of the writing, but lord how I hate GW...

GW didn't really need to encourage us to buy anything. We bought EVERYTHING they had on the shelf at the start of the year. We bought all of Indomitus (it appeared) and made them reprint it; we've kept buying them out of stock and they've not managed to catch up. If anything right now with the restrictions on their factory they don't want to push sales heavy.

Don't forget when they re-opened they had to close the store at night to keep their orders within a manageable level day to day.


This doesn't defend them for raising prices, but it at least shows that there's not only no reason but no production capacity to really make it viable for them to lower prices right now.

That said don't forget in just over 2 months we have Christmas and the Christmas army bundles are hopefully making a reappearance. Though we might not know of their contents till late November/early December.

If you look at indomitus I’m pretty sure the retail price came in under most people’s expectations. Then codexes are over priced. Maybe messing with our heads is part of the strategy....


I suppose I’d you bought indomitus because you thought it was a bargain, you e no choice but to then buy the codexes so you are a captive audience and he can make their money their


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry I mean there

I have my 9th Ed Marine dex - I play much less than i used to btu enjoy reading the lore as well as getting the odd game in, I had not bothered with 8th ed dex but thought was a good time to catch up on the details - I had got Supplements.

The Marine dex is just over 200 pages, full cover and plenty of lore so pretty happy but then £30 is for me a small sum.

I would also measuer it against other hobby costs - a round of golf, cinema and food, etc and happy with it.

I will probably give the code to a friend as I have no use for it.

 Matt Swain wrote:
In fact GW had a chance to be real knights here and reduce prices for a while to encourage people to buy minis, stay home, assemble and paint them.

But no. GW just can't do that. It's against their corporate programming. Their corporate DNA won't let them.

I suspect this will get me accused of being a "GW fhanbois", but - GW have shareholders. Some of them have enough shares to be able to influence policy and make 'suggestions' such as "no price cuts". Some at GW have tried to work around this by increasing the number of models in boxes, releasing the "Start Collecting" boxes and re-releasing things under a new name with a lower price ('Munitorum Armoured Containers' became "Battlezone: Manufactorum – Munitorum Armoured Containers" and went down in price a few weeks ago, for example).
If you want GW to change you need to petition the major shareholders, or become a shareholder yourself.

Or just get off the Carousel of Screw.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Or just get off the Carousel of Screw.

This.

3rd parties for some factions are better then gw's pitifull offerings in quality and quantity and price.
The rules are lackluster so switch over to a system that actually works and doesn't need an editional reboot all 4 years.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Or just get off the Carousel of Screw.

This.

3rd parties for some factions are better then gw's pitifull offerings in quality and quantity and price.
The rules are lackluster so switch over to a system that actually works and doesn't need an editional reboot all 4 years.

See once you're in the bracket where you see almost everything GW sells as product as "pitiful" and "screw carousel" surely its time to perhaps consider that you've moved on from GW and GW games and to consider investing your time in promoting, talking, engaging and generally improving the popularity of the games you have moved onto rather than griping in the GW threads about your dislike of GW? Dakka has whole sections so you don't have to leave the Dakka community, just shift the topics you talk in and create new ones to promote the other games - show off your painted and converted and other brand works etc...

Griping about how much you hate GW so much in threads mostly populated by people who like to tolerate GW is only going to get hostile pushback and create a battleground where there shouldn't be one.

Heck even just an alteration of the choice of language you use can at least present an encouraging alternative opportunity instead of a hostile put-down. At the very least even if a positive encouragement/invitation to other brands doesn't get picked up at least its a positive interaction; whilst a hostile one will only result in increased hostility back.

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Or just get off the Carousel of Screw.

This.

3rd parties for some factions are better then gw's pitifull offerings in quality and quantity and price.
The rules are lackluster so switch over to a system that actually works and doesn't need an editional reboot all 4 years.

See once you're in the bracket where you see almost everything GW sells as product as "pitiful" and "screw carousel" surely its time to perhaps consider that you've moved on from GW and GW games and to consider investing your time in promoting, talking, engaging and generally improving the popularity of the games you have moved onto rather than griping in the GW threads about your dislike of GW? Dakka has whole sections so you don't have to leave the Dakka community, just shift the topics you talk in and create new ones to promote the other games - show off your painted and converted and other brand works etc...

Griping about how much you hate GW so much in threads mostly populated by people who like to tolerate GW is only going to get hostile pushback and create a battleground where there shouldn't be one.

Heck even just an alteration of the choice of language you use can at least present an encouraging alternative opportunity instead of a hostile put-down. At the very least even if a positive encouragement/invitation to other brands doesn't get picked up at least its a positive interaction; whilst a hostile one will only result in increased hostility back.

what makes you think i don't.

fact is, the only remaining quality GW offers me is 40k as an universe in the form of lore, and the occaisonal really well done sculpt. but overall i have been far more active in building terrain, etc. Partaking in other Tg.

That however doesn't absolve GW off criticism. Infact , i think they should get laid into even more drastic on many a occaision. Frankly we as a community and yes i still am part of it, give them way to often the benefit of the doubt.

Slightly miffed that my new Necron Codex is scant on unit descriptions. It feels like those utterly awful 3rd Ed Codexes.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Or just get off the Carousel of Screw.

This.

3rd parties for some factions are better then gw's pitifull offerings in quality and quantity and price.
The rules are lackluster so switch over to a system that actually works and doesn't need an editional reboot all 4 years.

See once you're in the bracket where you see almost everything GW sells as product as "pitiful" and "screw carousel" surely its time to perhaps consider that you've moved on from GW and GW games and to consider investing your time in promoting, talking, engaging and generally improving the popularity of the games you have moved onto rather than griping in the GW threads about your dislike of GW? Dakka has whole sections so you don't have to leave the Dakka community, just shift the topics you talk in and create new ones to promote the other games - show off your painted and converted and other brand works etc...

Griping about how much you hate GW so much in threads mostly populated by people who like to tolerate GW is only going to get hostile pushback and create a battleground where there shouldn't be one.

Heck even just an alteration of the choice of language you use can at least present an encouraging alternative opportunity instead of a hostile put-down. At the very least even if a positive encouragement/invitation to other brands doesn't get picked up at least its a positive interaction; whilst a hostile one will only result in increased hostility back.

what makes you think i don't.

fact is, the only remaining quality GW offers me is 40k as an universe in the form of lore, and the occaisonal really well done sculpt. but overall i have been far more active in building terrain, etc. Partaking in other Tg.

That however doesn't absolve GW off criticism. Infact , i think they should get laid into even more drastic on many a occaision. Frankly we as a community and yes i still am part of it, give them way to often the benefit of the doubt.

Aye but how do you coordinate an effective and constructive form of feedback to GW instead of more hostile comments to the fans of GW?
When you're talking to fans and telling them that GW is "pitiful" etc... then you're not being critical nor constructive but hostile. Furthermore you might be attempting to show weaknesses in the GW system, but the same time you're insinuating that anyone who accepts those weaknesses is also at fault.

With such an approach all you do is build a wall between the two groups which instead of influencing the other group, actually just pushes you away from them. You stop being someone to listen too and become someone that group either insults back; or ignores. So your net is a loss on all fronts. You not only don't achieve what you set out to achieve, you cripple your chances of creating any further influence within the community and company you want to promote change in. Even if your end result of change is a net gain, your voice and opinion is discounted because of the language you choose, the attitude and the wall you've helped build.


If you want to be critical of GW in a way that GW and GW's fans (who by extension would feed back to GW) then you've got to change your approach. I can't say how you can effect change, only that the method you're currently using is not really going to achieve it. It might let you vent some frustrations; but since you are more likely to get pushback from fans that you're interacting with, its more likely to increase your frustration and annoyance. Because instead of acceptance of your viewpoint you'll get pushback which means you repeat your view point, you dig in more and more and it only reinforces the negative connection

 Overread wrote:


Aye but how do you coordinate an effective and constructive form of feedback to GW instead of more hostile comments to the fans of GW?
When you're talking to fans and telling them that GW is "pitiful" etc... then you're not being critical nor constructive but hostile. Furthermore you might be attempting to show weaknesses in the GW system, but the same time you're insinuating that anyone who accepts those weaknesses is also at fault.

Where have i been hostile to the fans of GW though?
Also i don't think pitifull is the "wrong " word in this case, take a look f.e. at wargames atlantic, offering 28mm heroic sculpts 35$ / 30 models which frankly look awesome comparatively to 95% of any GW geq. I don't insinuate anything with this other then that gw's offering is pitifull for the asking price.

With such an approach all you do is build a wall between the two groups which instead of influencing the other group, actually just pushes you away from them. You stop being someone to listen too and become someone that group either insults back; or ignores. So your net is a loss on all fronts. You not only don't achieve what you set out to achieve, you cripple your chances of creating any further influence within the community and company you want to promote change in. Even if your end result of change is a net gain, your voice and opinion is discounted because of the language you choose, the attitude and the wall you've helped build.

There's allways people that will not like you for who you are or what you state. No matter the language. And frankly if you discount someone from having an opinion to regard solely upon the words he choses then you have other issues.

If you want to be critical of GW in a way that GW and GW's fans (who by extension would feed back to GW) then you've got to change your approach. I can't say how you can effect change, only that the method you're currently using is not really going to achieve it. It might let you vent some frustrations; but since you are more likely to get pushback from fans that you're interacting with, its more likely to increase your frustration and annoyance. Because instead of acceptance of your viewpoint you'll get pushback which means you repeat your view point, you dig in more and more and it only reinforces the negative connection

Like i said, i am not critical of the fans, some of the most awesome people i met come from the hobby, however i am hostile torwards GW for a whole slew of reasons which all are founded in the continued treatment of a longstanding hobbiest at this point. I still reccomend 40k as a universe or TG but not because of GW but despite of them.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Where have i been hostile to the fans of GW though?
Also i don't think pitifull is the "wrong " word in this case, take a look f.e. at wargames atlantic, offering 28mm heroic sculpts 35$ / 30 models which frankly look awesome comparatively to 95% of any GW geq. I don't insinuate anything with this other then that gw's offering is pitifull for the asking price.

The thing is you want to create change, but the way you conduct it is to insult everything that GW is producing from the product to the price. At the same time you're attacking the company, but you're talking to fans not the company here. So by extension anyone who likes GW's sculpts and tolerates/affords their price is buying "pitiful models". You are saying that they, with their free choice to engage in a hobby they enjoy, are pitiful for choosing GW over other brands. That is attacking them. If you were saying these same comments direct to GW through email or in person or however it wouldn't affect the fans because you'd be talking direct to GW. But as soon as you come to a fan group and start using that same language and direction you are insulting those who are engaging with GW.

Not Online!!! wrote:


There's allways people that will not like you for who you are or what you state. No matter the language. And frankly if you discount someone from having an opinion to regard solely upon the words he choses then you have other issues.

The words we choose have great influence on how others interpret not only our personality as a person, but the validity of our viewpoint and the way they interpret the viewpoint itself. If you choose very hostile, very put down and negative language in a hobby environment like this you might think you're coming across as passionate (thus why you are choosing such harsh and direct/insulting language). Instead you come off more as bitter, angry and hostile. The result of which is people interpret that your viewpoint is coloured by your own hostility. Ergo that the sculpts are only "pitiful" because you're angry rather than any actual technical, artistic or financial reasons.

Again if you choose to interact with fans and use hostile language you'll get hostile pushback - you'll build that wall which in the end stops being about the merits of the sculpts and instead ends up a battle of egos between people.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Like i said, i am not critical of the fans, some of the most awesome people i met come from the hobby, however i am hostile torwards GW for a whole slew of reasons which all are founded in the continued treatment of a longstanding hobbiest at this point. I still reccomend 40k as a universe or TG but not because of GW but despite of them.

Aye, but like I said before, you're not being hostile to GW here. GW isn't on Dakka, they aren't here to be hostile toward. Instead your company hostility is directed only toward the fans of the company you are engaging with.

It's like saying you hate a person toward that persons best friend on a repeat basis. Even if you might have a valid point, you're still talking to totally the wrong person who won't share your viewpoint and will push back

Again you seem to read way more into it then i am thinking i am stating, quite possible since english is not my motherlanguage.

Also is and remains one of the largest forums .
Stating that people should leave the GW bubble once in a while is also hardly hostile.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Again you seem to read way more into it then i am thinking i am stating, quite possible since english is not my motherlanguage.

Also is and remains one of the largest forums .
Stating that people should leave the GW bubble once in a while is also hardly hostile.

Ah but how you suggest that people leave the bubble is just as important.

Consider the following examples.

Example 1



Example B

Okay, I mean we can debate price all day, but no one makes plastic kits as good as GW.

Resin low volume models? Yeah, sure, others do it better IMO, and can sell cheaper because they have next to ZERO overhead.

Oh, and guess what? Do you know why those awesome creature caster models are even popular? It's because they resemble descriptions of things in the fluff that were made by a certain other company. A certain other company that sells "overpriced" models and tons of fluff and background to go along with them. That fluff and background which they pay authors to write.

It's fine to get a little upset about prices or price increases or quality that could be better, but let's not delude ourselves.

Ah but you're missing the point which isn't about sculpting quality; quality control; price; overheads or anything else. My point is the way you present the argument and introduce people to elements outside of GW (or anything else) as well as how you choose to express your negative opinions of something whilst at the same time being in a place where the majority of people support and have positive overall opinions. Especially when your viewpoint is against the company and not the fans, yet your interaction is with the fans rather than the company.

Quasistellar wrote:
Okay, I mean we can debate price all day, but no one makes plastic kits as good as GW.

For the price? I'd say these fellows here come pretty close.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/all/products/les-grognards?variant=31187238944866

In regards to vehicle stand ins, there's also a whole slew of historic kits which are also not just close. 1:35 Wasp from tamaya makes a great griffon or basi. etc. For half the price.

Resin low volume models? Yeah, sure, others do it better IMO, and can sell cheaper because they have next to ZERO overhead.

Dunno, better is an understatement, considering failcast....

Oh, and guess what? Do you know why those awesome creature caster models are even popular? It's because they resemble descriptions of things in the fluff that were made by a certain other company. A certain other company that sells "overpriced" models and tons of fluff and background to go along with them. That fluff and background which they pay authors to write.

It's fine to get a little upset about prices or price increases or quality that could be better, but let's not delude ourselves.

That argument is funny to me, for doesn't GW also sell these books?
GW has and owns the IP, and frankly nowadays does a somewhat decent job at maintaining it.
What is not fine though out of a custommer perspective, is f.e. the premium price we pay for the rulessources, for the job delievered in these rulessources.
And i am perfectly happy to buy rulessources in from of dexes, but A) a balance patch should not be sold separately no matter how you slice it and B) especially in regards to translations the increased price is doubly hillarious because the job done on the translation is also bad, sadly.

After being shown by people at the new store how model companies kits look, and how much better proportioned they are, I don't think the claim that GW makes the best plastic models is a valid one.

To be fair, you might not be wrong about the vehicles. I haven't built a historical kit in more than 10 years, so I don't know how good the modern kits are, but I remember them being quite fiddly for the sake if accuracy to the real world item, which is a limitation GW doesn't have. Are you comparing a modern historical kit to GW 20 year old designs still in production? GW does price theirs too high (IMO). Again, a fair complaint!

Wargames Atlantic models do look nice, but are we comparing them to the Cadian kit, or something newer like Skitarii, Hybrids, or SoB infantry? Again, sure, they're nice and cheaper, but they're pretty clearly riding on GWs IP coattails.

I can't and won't defend Failcast. It's unforgivably bad. The fact that they still use it is actually offensive to me as a customer.

I also won't argue that others just straight up do low volume resin kits better in general.

Edit: You're also not wrong about the rules price. It's too much, and done in a very poor way (physical books) that creates haves and have-nots, and stifles balance because of printing lead times.